Fertile Lands

[victinivcreate1]

Fertile Lands

Before you ask me how much I've laddered, let me tell you, PS was being all whack on me, giving me +3 every win. Not laddering with that. However, my peak has been around 1680-1710 before i dropped down to 1470-1530.


Despite the image and the title, this team is based off two walls and a powerful sweeper. The trio have great synergy and can function as a core.

The Core
Now before we start the team, I just want to explain the trio. They are Jellicent, Ferrothorn, and Landorus Incarnate.

Jellicent-Water/Ghost-Water Absorb
Immunities: Fighting, Normal, Water
Resistances: 2x Ice, 2x Steel, 2x Fire, 2x Poison, 2x Bug
Neutralities: Dragon, Flying, Ground, Psychic, Rock
Weaknesses: 2x Dark, 2x Electric, 2x Ghost, 2x Grass

Ferrothorn-Grass/Steel-Iron Barbs
Immunities: Poison
Resists: 2x Dark, 2x Dragon, 2x Electric, 2x Ghost, 4x Grass, 2x Normal, 2x Psychic, 2x Rock, 2x Steel, 2x Water
Neutralities: Flying, Ice, Bug
Weaknesses: 2x Fighting, 4x Fire

Landorus-Ground/Flying-Sheer Force
Immunities: Electric, Ground
Resists: 2x Bug, 2x Fighting, 2x Poison
Neutralities: Dark, Dragon, Fire, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Normal, Psychic, Rock, Steel
Weaknesses: 4x Ice, 2x Water

Above are their typings, resists, immunities, neutralities and weaknesses

Now. Notice Landorus' weaknesses. Ice and Water. Jellicent easily handles that. In turn, Landorus takes the electric and grass moves aimed at Jellicent. Threatening Dragon type sweeper? Ferrothorn laughs at them while abusing their potential speed boost with Gyro Ball (suck it DD sweepers) or setting up hazards.

Team Building Process

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I wanted to have two walls that have great synergy together. Ferrothorn is a pokemon that I have always liked, and Jellicent as well. They also have amazing synergy, resisting each other's weaknesses. Unlike the SkarmBliss core, this core isn't torn apart powerful mixed sweepers like Tornadus or (the not so powerful) Infernape.


Then I really wanted to try Sheer Force Landorus. I have heard amazing reviews from the Rock Polish set as a sweeper and cleaner. So I put that in.

I also needed Stealth Rock lead that could also tear apart certain teams with ease. Terrakion here I come!

Then I threw in Latios for its destructive special sweeping ability should Landorus get killed.

I knew I need a scarfer. I figured among the most common scarfers were Latios, Terrakion and Keldeo. I wanted a pokemon that could outspeed it and 2HKO/OHKO it with the appropriate move. Azelf was up. It has blazing speed, offensive ability that remains par with the power creep of 5th Gen, and has levitate, synergizing with Terrakion. That way, Azelf can U-Turn into Terrakion (especially helpful against Espeon) and Terrakion can finish it.

Looking at the team, I noticed immediate issues with Scizor, Alakazam, and the BandTar+Keldeo core. I also noticed a big weakness to Volcarona. So I decided to switch Latios for Tornadus. Despite adding electric, Ice and rock weaknesses, my team is not weak to rocks anyway, nor is Tornadus wielding a Life Orb. And Tornadus outspeeds both the BandTar and Expert Belt Keldeo. It can also reliably beat the L@ti Twins and Gengar with Crunch after rocks. It also has the ability to tear through unboosted Volcarona with ease. I used the Flying Gem Acrobatics Set.

Tornadus was an excellent choice on my team, and was really pulling its weight. At +1, it was sweeping teams. However, my team had a critical weakness. Being an offensive team, all offensive teams need a priority mon that could also sweep with ease. Tornadus had the great sweeping ability, but had no OFFENSIVE moves that were +1 (Prankster Bulk Up has +1 priority). In addition to that, my only Ice type move was Azelf's Ice Punch which lacks STAB.

Mamoswine was my answer. He seemed right. He had priority with the killer Ice Shard, the incredible Ice and Ground STAB, and was able to beat the Lati twins like Tornadus could. However, Mamo did not need a boost to sweep, and especially awesome, is neutral to Stealth Rock. This is also when I asked for help. I PM'ed False Sense, Shurtugal, and Gary2346 for their expert opinion. False Sense said Mamoswine was a good choice because despite Mamoswine giving me a third water weakness and a 3rd fighting weakness, Jellicent is immune to both of those attack types. Ferrothorn was a water resist, and Azelf was my fighting resist. Gary never replied (its okay bro), and Shurtugal like dissapeared. So I traded Tornadus for Mamoswine.

At this point, the team felt extraordinary. It was solid overall, my walls being able to cover a large portion of the metagame, and my sweepers fast and powerful. I also was able to fit in 2 out of the 3 hazards on my team, a big deal, making Landorus and Mamoswine's 2HKOs into OHKOs. Azelf was beating Keldeo and Terrakion wonderfully with STAB Zen Headbutt. Fire Punch, U-Turn and Ice Punch provided excellent coverage, and the only thing that would wall this completely would be Heatran. Landorus could power through Stall teams.

However, Landorus Incarnate was getting more and more popular. So were its counters, Latias and Celebi. And Mamoswine can't OHKO either of them with STAB Ice Shard. Even worse, it can't trap them and get them KOed. It is even forced out in fear of Surf/Giga Drain. Mr. BandTar was the number one partner for Mr. L; however, its nasty weaknesses were too much for me.
Weavile was really becoming more and more favorable. Its typing is a mixed blessing. Dark/Ice typing gives me a nasty Stealth Rock and Fighting weaknesses, but gives me STAB on two moves. Pursuit and Ice Shard. Backed with a Life Orb, Weavile will PLOW through Lati twins and Celebi. It doesn't fear either Giga Drain or Dragon Pulse. Note while Mamo's great stuff is its 130 base attack and Ice Shard. Because of this, it can semi-reliably beat Lati twins. Weavile has a slightly weaker, 120 base attack, 125 base speed with moves significantly stronger than Ice Shard, namely Ice Punch. Since 125>110, Weavile will outspeed and OHKO/trap the Lati Twins with Ice Punch/Pursuit. It will also OHKO most Celebi or trap it with Pursuit.

Overall the team was really good, but one thing i noticed was that the lack of a second steel type hurt the team overall. I needed to wall powerful Dragon type attacks, and certain dragons rain Dclaw. So I swapped Terrakion for Jirachi, who also sets up rocks, has fighting type attacks (lol it gets Drain Punch xD), and can take out certain teams.

However, Jirachi proved to be dissapointing, and i swapped back for Terrakion. But I thought about Cobalion for a bit. It has fighting STAB, is the ultimate physical dragon check (boasting mega defense and decent mixed offenses), can start momentum with Volt Switch, and sets up rocks.

I also swapped Alakazam for Azelf. Its slightly faster, and can beat more things.

Due to Dcae's rate, Alakazam was ditched in favor of Latios

In Depth

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Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Justified
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly Nature
-Stealth Rock
-Close Combat
-Stone Edge
-Taunt
Since the banning of Deoxys D, hyper offensive teams have had to look for other Stealth Rock users. I always hated Deoxys-D, and to this day, I have never used it on ANY of HO teams. Terrakion, while his base stats suggest physical sweeper, is much more suited to the role of lead more than one might think. His ability to set up rocks is phenomenal. Unlike Deoxys-D, once rocks are up I can cut to the chase.
The EV spread is basic. 252 attack to maximize damage output, 252 speed to speed tie with enemy lead Terrakion/Infernape. The last 4 EVs are tossed into HP.
Stealth Rock is obvious, to get hazards to ease my teammates sweeping. Taunt is to stop opposing leads from throwing Rocks/Spikes. But if their faster (Scolipede) then taunt is useless. Thats where my powerful STAB moves come in. Close Combat 2HKOs most, and Stone Edge has the same qualities.

Synergy

Why Lead over Double Dancer, All Out Attacker, Choice Band/Scarf, Rock Gem, Sub+Swords Dance, Rock Polish, or Swords Dance?
I need a lead, not a sweeper or wall breaker. Nor do I want a scarfer, as Terrakion speed ties with Keldeo and loses always to the Scarf Latis. The Rock Gem set, while using an item with an awesome name, is not what I need either.

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Water Absorb
248 HP/216 Def/44 Spe
Bold Nature
-Scald-
-Toxic
-Recover
-Taunt
Jellicent is the first part of my defensive core. It saddens me to see that this pokemon isn't getting good usage. It completely SHITS on all Keldeo, especially the SubCM Keldeo (immunities to Keldeo's STABs). Despite Jellicent's above average bulk, this set focuses on utility moreso than taking repeated hits. Jellicent is my number one counter to Scizor, having auspicious typing and resisting both the Steel Bug's STABs, while being immune to Superpower. Once Scizor is burned with Scald, I can freely switch out, as Pursuit is weakened significantly. Taunt is for the stall teams. Toxic is for stalling out Volcarona and preventing it from sweeping. Scald is for STAB, and dealing heavy damage to Donphan and other rock, ground, and fire types (bar Volcarona). It also burns physical sweepers, a plus. Recover is so I can continue to make good use of Jellicent. You make think this is weird, but I have 6-0'd teams with Jellicent alone. Overall, Jellicent is an underrated threat who I think really shines on this team.

Synergy

Why Utility Counter over Specially Defensive or Specs?
Specs Jellicent requires rain support, and this isn't a rain team. It is also weak, and in comparison, there are much stronger water type sweepers like Starmie, and Keldeo. I prefer mixed bulk over bulk on one side of the spectrum because mixed allows me to cover more threats. With only special bulk, i'm weaker to Terrakion and can't counter Scizor as effectively. With pure physical bulk, I lose the speed, and Jellicent is more of a support mon rather than a wall.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Iron Barbs
252 HP/88 Def/168 SpD
IVs: 0 Speed
Relaxed Nature
-Spikes
-Power Whip
-Gyro Ball
-Leech Seed
Ferrothorn is the second part of my defensive core. It is my defensive answer to dragon types, and has a surprising amount of offensive ability too.
The EV spread is to maximize mixed bulk potential, to cover the most threats. I set the Speed IV to 0 to maximize the power of Gyro Ball. I also gave Ferro a Relaxed nature, which drops speed.
Spikes is there as an entry hazard. It eases KOs significantly, especially if the foes are grounded. With a layer of Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes up, Landorus has a very good chance of OHKOing nearly every pokemon in the metagame with the apprioriate move (bar the Lati twins, but only because I am not running Hidden Power Ice). It also eases Azelf's cleaning (as the moves it carries deal around 88-94%, with Rocks and Spikes support, those are OHKOs). Power Whip is for mauling pokemon weak to grass. Gyro Ball is for SHITTING on all those super fast sweepers like ScarfMence, Latios and Alakazam. Leech Seed is for added survivability and is Ferrothorn's only means of recovery.

Synergy

Why Standard Set over Choice Band?
In general, unless using Volt Switch or U-Turn (or your name is ScarfMence and your opponent has no Steel type), Choice items kill momentum, and being locked into Power Whip is especially unfavorable, since there are many grass resists in OU. And despite Ferro's respectable 94 attack, wasting its potential as a mixed wall is a Notorious B.I.G (see what I did there) NO NO.

Landorus @ Life Orb
Sheer Force
88 HP/252 SpA/168 Spe
Modest Nature
-Rock Polish
-Earth Power
-Focus Blast
-Psychic
Landorus Incarnate is the third part of my defensive core and is the main sweeper as well. As a big fan of Sandorus, I always thought Sheer Force was inferior. My reasons were that Sandorus is a better wall breaker, as it could run HP Ice and somewhat feign special attacker (HP Ice has no secondary effect and thus takes life orb damage, even from Sheer Force) and two, could run a move boosting its higher offensive stat (125>115). Swords Dance/HP Ice/Stone Edge/Earthquake has perfect coverage in OU, and is monstrously powerful in Sandstorm. I can use Swords Dance to +2 boost my attack 2HKO all Skarmory and Gliscor in Sandstorm. Or even easier, I can use HP Ice on Gliscor to OHKO. If it protects, free Swords Dance boost. However, I was wrong. SheerForce is a whole lot better, as it takes no Life Orb recoil. 610 SpA (Modest Nature factoring in Life Orb+Sheer Force Boost) is no joke. I can also run Rock Polish, to double my speed. I could care less about Skarmory or Gliscor, as I hit them on their weaker Special Defense. I run Modest for extra power, and after one Rock polish, I outspeed even Chlorophyll Timid/Jolly Venusaur (depending if its physical or special). Landorus is the most powerful member of my team, and easily sweeps, cleans up, or checks foes.


Synergy

Why Rock Polish Special Attacker over Double Dancer, Swords Dance, Rock Polish Physical sweeper, Expert Belt, or Choice Band/Scarf?
By Scarfer standards, Landorus Incarnate is slow. Choice Band kills momentum. All the other sets require sandstorm support. Some sets, like the Expert Belt set are better off with Sand support, as Sheer Force does not benefit from Expert Belt. Rock Polish physical sweeper is much frailer than rock polish special sweeper (because Sand Force does not negate Life Orb recoil, and the amount of physical attacks Landorus has that are boosted by Sheer Force are like 2).

Weavile @ Life Orb
Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
IVs: 29 HP
Jolly Nature
-Ice Shard
-Night Slash
-Pursuit
-Low Kick

Weavile is my dragon slayer and offensive partner to Landorus. With Ice Shard, he can outright, OHKO nearly all the dragons in OU. Despite his weakness to Stealth Rock, i do not suffer because my team is either neutral to rocks or resist them.
Before, this spot was occupied by a Mamoswine. However, there were three things that caused me to switch to Weavile. 1 was its speed. Latios walls Landorus and can proceed to OHKO with Draco Meteor/Ice Beam. Weavile outspeeds it and OHKOs with Ice Punch. Secondly, Weavile can always deal with Mamo, as Low Kick always OHKOs. Thirdly, Weavile can Pursuit trap, and ELIMINATE Celebi, Latias, and Jellicent, leaving them weakened enough to be taken out by Earth Power/Focus Blast.
The EVs are standard. Jolly Nature is for speed. I first thought Adamant, but Adamant Weavile is outsped by base 110s and above. 252 EVs in Attack and Speed is for max power and speed. The rest are thrown into HP.
Low Kick is for KOing dangerous sweepers like Terrakion, Mamoswine, and Tyranitar. Pursuit is to trap certain pokemon that otherwise wall Landorus. Night Slash is for powerful STAB, and Ice Shard is for those 4x Ice weak pokemon like Salamence, enemy Landorus, and Dragonite.
Weavile is a great underrated sweeper and partner for Landorus, and in my opinion, an even better teamate than Band/ScarfTar.

Synergy

Why Physical Attacker over Swords Dance?
Weavile serves utility, not clean sweeping, though it has done that on several occasions.

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Psyshock
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Trick
Latios ties up the team as the scarfer. I wanted a scarfer that could beat any variant of Keldeo. I first opted for Special Scarfer Azelf, but it wasn't in my taste, and there are better special scarfers. Latios is one of them.
Timid nature is to maximize speed. The EVs are here to maximize Special Attack and Speed stats, to maximize damage output. Notable speed ties and outspeeds are ScarfGar, Scarf Latis, and the Scarf Musketeers. Scarf Latios also has the rare feat of outspeeding Chlorophyll Venusaur in the sun, and dealing heavy damage to Venusaur with Psyshock.
Draco Meteor and Psyshock are the obligatory STABs and deal good damage. Surf provides good coverage is for all those fire, rock, and ground weak mons. Trick is for screwing walls to no end. Latios is a wonderful Scarfer and I couldn't think of a better scarfer.

Synergy

Why Choice Scarf over Life Orb Abuse, Specs, or Calm sweeper?
Life Orb is unneeded, as I need a scarfer, not a powerful sweeper. Specs is unneeded as i need a scarfer, not a wall breaker. CM can't take priority. Although Latios remarkably fast, it has poor bulk and can't take priority well. Its poor bulk also makes it hard to set up. Landorus makes a better special sweeper anyway.

Overall the team feels extremely solid and has been a thrill creating. Rate and don't forget to Luvdisc.

Thank you for your time,
victinivcreate1

​

 

[victinivcreate1]

bumping for some rates

 

[Curlyrunt]

Nice team I would recommend focus sash for alakazam and terrakoin. And on landorus hpice> over psychic.

 

[dcae]

Hey there, this is a cool team you got here! However, there are several things you could do to make this an even more solid team. Taking a quick look through your team reveals good synergy, but several questionable item choices. The first one is Terrakion. You are running the excellent lead set, but with Life Orb. However, I would recommend Focus Sash > Life Orb, due to the fact that using Focus Sash guarantees you can get rocks up, which is what you want. Life Orb causes you to lose that guaranteed Stealth Rock, and thus is more useful for a Double Dance set or a Sub + 3 attacks set.

Moving along, I see you are using utility Jellicent, which is a great spinblocker and pokemon in general. However, I recommend Shadow Ball > Surf as your main STAB. The reason why I propose this switch is because Surf does not damage the things you wall with Jellicent, such as Keldeo, while Shadow Ball does. Shadow Ball also allows it to hit Tentacruel, and paired with Taunt, allows you to beat it. It also hits Starmie hard and allows you to defeat the standard defensive set everyone runs on Starmie nowadays.

Moving on to Landorus, I noticed you are running Modest, which is the smart decision. Now, if you run Modest, I would recommend a bulkier set that still outspeeds everything your current set does: 88 HP / 252 SpA / 168 Spe. This allows more survivability through priority attacks, and also permits you to set up on more moves. Regarding your moves now, I would definitely advise switching to HP Ice > Psychic immediately, because Hidden Power Ice is a necessity on Landorus, to smack Flying types and Dragons hard. Psychic does not provide any additional coverage for Landorus. If you are up to being unique, you can choose to run Sludge Wave, which hits the Latis and Celebi much harder than Hidden Power Ice, but is weaker on stuff like Dragonite.

Your Weavile is a cool and unique choice, which I like. The set is fairly standard, but there is one switch I'd recommend: Night Slash > Ice Punch. The reasoning behind this switch is because Ice Shard hits everything as well as Ice Punch, while Ice Punch carried its utility back in the Tornadus T era. Night Slash allows it to smash through Jellicent, Reuniclus, and other bulkier Psychics/Ghosts that have nothing to fear from Pursuit.

Your final pokemon is quite the oddball: Choice Scarf Alakazam. As I look through the rest of your team, I note a relative weakness to the priority core of Technician Breloom + Scizor. Both can come in and deal decent damage to everything on your team. Alakazam also already sports blazing fast speed at 120 Speed, and honestly shouldn't really be carrying a Scarf. You noted you want to deal with Keldeo in this slot, so the pokemon I would recommend here would be Choice Scarf Latios. Scarf Latios beats up Breloom, takes out any variant of Keldeo, and thanks to high speed and Draco Meteor, is a top notch hitter in any case. The added bonus of Trick allows you to easily cripple defensive teams. The set I suggest is the following:

Latios @Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid
-Draco Meteor
-Surf
-Psyshock/Dragon Pulse/Hidden Power Fire
-Trick

The choice in the third slot is depending on what you need. Dragon Pulse provides a reliable second STAB to clean up late-game, Psyshock does decent damage to the blobs and hits Fighting types, while Hidden Power Fire, a rare choice nowadays, smacks Steels that tend to switch in with impunity, hitting Ferrothorn especially hard. Overall, this is a nice team, and I hope I helped! Good luck!

Tl;dr

tl;dr

Focus Sash > Life Orb on Terrakion
Shadow Ball > Surf on Jellicent
Bulkier EV spread on Landorus
Hidden Power Ice > Psychic on Landorus (optional: test out Sludge Wave)
Night Slash > Ice Punch on Weavile
Choice Scarf Latios > Alakazam

 

[victinivcreate1]

Thanks everyone for the rates!

Now
Scarf Alakazam was replaced by Scarf Latios

Terrakion has Focus Sash instead of Life Orb

Weavile has Night Slash instead of Ice Punch.

Landorus runs a bulkier EV spread of 88 HP/252 SpA/168 Spe


Suggestions I did not take
HP Ice/Sludge Wave in place of Psychic
Reason: Weavile beats Celebi and Latias, the common switch ins to Landorus Incarnate. Psychic also allows me to ALWAYS OHKO Keldeo, who can be a nuisance if Jellicent is dead.

Shadow Ball in place of Surf on Jellicent
Jelly can beat Donphan with 2 Surfs. Donphan can't really hurt Jellicent, even with Seed Bomb. It takes 4 Shadow Balls to kill Donphan. Surf also has better coverage. Plus, Keldeo is NOT staying in on Jellicent. Even +1 HP Dark/Ghost fails to OHKO, and I can just recover off damage and stall it out.

 

[chimpact]

It seems like you already got some help from other raters, but i'll do my best to help you out even further.

First of all, I would definitely go with HP Ice on Landorus over Psychic as it has superior coverage and you need it for stuff that EP doesnt hit or is resisted by. You should also replace Surf with Scald. The extra 20 difference in BP doesn't matter when you can cripple mons completely and enable yourself to turn 3-4hkos into 2-3hkos with a simple burn. I understand that relying on the burn is foolish, but you're sacrificing 20 BP to do it which is reasonable.

Additionally, I'm not too sure on using Latios + Jellicent. I know you have a fear of Keldeo, but Keldeo is usually paired up with pokemon that can handle Water/fighting resists (like Tyranitar/Weavile) so you're essentially making it easier for yourself to get swept by that keldeo. Jellicent is enough of an answer to Keldeo and handles tyranitar decently with scald and will o wisp. I would just replace it with a scarfed keldeo itself. It works well offensively with lando as they can weaken each other's counters and weavle can also pursuit trap those pesky ghosts/psychics that it doesnt enjoy dealing with. Keldeo doesn't give you any particular weaknesses that latios provided other than being slightly more vulnerable to priority from breloom.

hope I helped! Good luck with your team.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Chimpakt

If I replace landOS psychic with HP ice, I lose the ability reliably OHKO all Keldeo.

Scarf Keldeo can't beat the Latis who give me some issues. At least Latios can beat the musketeers AND beat itself.

 

[victinivcreate1]

It seems like you already got some help from other raters, but i'll do my best to help you out even further.

First of all, I would definitely go with HP Ice on Landorus over Psychic as it has superior coverage and you need it for stuff that EP doesnt hit or is resisted by. You should also replace Surf with Scald. The extra 20 difference in BP doesn't matter when you can cripple mons completely and enable yourself to turn 3-4hkos into 2-3hkos with a simple burn. I understand that relying on the burn is foolish, but you're sacrificing 20 BP to do it which is reasonable.

Additionally, I'm not too sure on using Latios + Jellicent. I know you have a fear of Keldeo, but Keldeo is usually paired up with pokemon that can handle Water/fighting resists (like Tyranitar/Weavile) so you're essentially making it easier for yourself to get swept by that keldeo. Jellicent is enough of an answer to Keldeo and handles tyranitar decently with scald and will o wisp. I would just replace it with a scarfed keldeo itself. It works well offensively with lando as they can weaken each other's counters and weavle can also pursuit trap those pesky ghosts/psychics that it doesnt enjoy dealing with. Keldeo doesn't give you any particular weaknesses that latios provided other than being slightly more vulnerable to priority from breloom.

hope I helped! Good luck with your team.

Also forgot to mention that Ice Shard from LO Jolly weavile does 60-73% on ScarfLatios. Latios used DM. OHKO.

Plus ScarfTios means Ttar is eliminated and Landorus aint sweeping anyway. HP Ice cant OHKO me. I OHKO back with DM.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Hey victinivcreate1!

Cool team you got in storage! This is fairly solid with a few flaws. First of all, Keldeo is not really a threat due to Jellicent walling it. Only the Hidden Power [Electric] and [Ghost] threaten you and switching in too something that can shrug it off and set up like Landorus is a huge pro. This team is weak to Hurricane users such as Tornadus and Volcarona and Chlorophyll sweepers such as Venasaur and Lilligant. These pokemon can easily dominate over your team after your team is weakened only a little. Another threat to this team is weak to Jirachi who can come in and hit every pokemon on thsi team for super effective damage depending on the set and can spread paralysis against this super offensive team.

• 
  • Surf ===> Scald
  • Will-O-Wisp ===> Toxic

While this may seem weird for you, this is a change that I find almost always to be used on all Jellicent. Scald has the nifty burn rate and Toxic lets you break down walls. In fact, Volcarona, which you are supposed to wall if Terrakion is not alive, can take repeated Scalds thanks to the SDef boost and Toxic can break it down while stalling with Recover. Scald is the better option for bulky waters and is pretty much mandatory due to it have a defensively inclined offense.

• 
  • Gyro Ball ===> Thunder Wave

Thunder Wave lets you stop many Outrage users in the metagame. Thunder Wave has become even more useful this time because the metagame has become much faster. You may refuse to give up Gyro Ball and instead switch it with Power Whip but that is counterproductive due to Thunder Wave lowering Speed. Gyro Ball has down literraly nothing in my opinion to save this team from fast offensive threats like Dragonite after a boost.


I recommend switching your Latios to a Choice Scarf Salamence. Latios is now a generally bad scarfer because it lacks power and has to rely on Draco Meteor to deal good damage, also being set up bait to many pokemon after use. Salamence is more physically oriented which may seem more less balalanced but remember it removes all of Landorus's counters such as Bronzong and Chansey. With Moxie, it can even late-game sweep and Stealth Rock weakness is rarely a problem with Terrakion smashing the other leads.

Salamence

[IMG]http://pldh.net/media/pokecons/373.png[/IMG]
Salamence | Choice Scarf
Hasty | 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Outrage | Fire Blast | Earthquake | Dragon Claw
[/HIDE]

Salamence

Ok

Jellicent now has Scald over Surf, and Toxic over Wil-o-wisp

Replacements i do not accept
Thunder Wave> Gyro Ball
Scarf Mence/Scarf Latios

Gyroball actually KILLS the fast sweepers. Thunder Wave just slows them down. Getting rid of +1 Salamence locked into Ootrage is a great gift.

My scarfers' goal was to be able to outspeed Scarf Muskeeteers and at least speed tie with Scarf Base 110's. Salamence can't do either of those things, and a base 100 Scarfer is fairly slow.

 

[AJR]

After the Latios change your team is looking a lot better, you're still pretty weak to the likes of Terrakion and Scizor though. I also worry that you're so weak to entry hazards; Sash Terrakion is only a reliable stop to them on a HO team, which this isn't. Something like Skarmory, for instance, comes in for free against Ferrothorn and Weavile to spam spikes, which will destroy your FerroCent core in particular. What I'd suggest would be to use a defensive Landorus-T set in place of your current Lando, covering the physical threats which give you issues, and then Xatu over Alakazam to handle hazards.

Hope that helps!

 

[victinivcreate1]

After the Latios change your team is looking a lot better, you're still pretty weak to the likes of Terrakion and Scizor though. I also worry that you're so weak to entry hazards; Sash Terrakion is only a reliable stop to them on a HO team, which this isn't. Something like Skarmory, for instance, comes in for free against Ferrothorn and Weavile to spam spikes, which will destroy your FerroCent core in particular. What I'd suggest would be to use a defensive Landorus-T set in place of your current Lando, covering the physical threats which give you issues, and then Xatu over Alakazam to handle hazards.

Hope that helps!

Scizor is beaten easily by Jellicent. Terrakion is not an issue as Weavile outspeeds no scarf variants and OHKOs with Low Kick. Skarmory is scared silly by Landorus Incarnate (ohkoed by Focus Blast).

Jellicent is the Skarm switch in, it taunts, and is then wrecked.

Landorus T for Landorus I ruins the whole purpose of the team, which is to sweep with Lando I and clean up with Weavile/Scarf Latios.

With Xatu/Lando-T/Weavile/Terrakion/Jellicent/Ferrothorn, Breloom easily beats 4 out of my 6 members in my team. Starmie also does significant damage to my team, beating all but Weavile and Ferrothorn, who are beaten by Breloom.

I am not weak to hazards. My main sweeper is immune to Spikes, my scarfer is immune to spikes, only Weavile is weak to Rocks, Terrakion and Ferro resist stealth rock. Jellicent can beat common spikers, by taunting them.

 

[George Eliot]

Okay, this is going to be quite blunt (sorry in advance).

AJR's right actually. You have one counter to Scizor. One. Every other Pokemon on your team get's destroyed by it. Not only is Jellicent not that hard to wear down, considering it still takes some significant damage from CB U-turn and SR and potentially other hazards, it's predictable, Volt Switch weak and Pursuit-trappable. Once it's gone, Scizor will have a field day. SD Scizor will win the game automatically once Jellicent goes.

Skarm comes in on Ferro or Weavile, Spikes, then switches out just like he said. Spikes are down, 4 members of your team will henceforth be taking 12.5% damage per switch. Any stall team will frankly destroy you. As for Terrakion, for chrissakes you're running a balanced team, not hyperoffense. You can't revenge non-Scarf variants with Weavile without sacrificing a pokemon first. And what if it's SubSD? You get 6-0'd if it sets up, and if you don't let it set up, it will just kill Ferrothorn. Having no decent switchins just isn't an option for this kind of team.

AJR's suggestions are good too, although I understand that Lando-T > Lando-I costs you a lot of offensive presence. Xatu > Alakazam makes you much less Breloom weak than you are currently, I don't know what you're talking about. Try bulky Rock Polish Lando-T, you're using Spikes so the loss of power isn't that significant, and definitely try Xatu. Just to reiterate, in your team's current state any well played stall team will in all likelihood 6-0 you without much effort.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Okay, this is going to be quite blunt (sorry in advance).

AJR's right actually. You have one counter to Scizor. One. Every other Pokemon on your team get's destroyed by it. Not only is Jellicent not that hard to wear down, considering it still takes some significant damage from CB U-turn and SR and potentially other hazards, it's predictable, Volt Switch weak and Pursuit-trappable. Once it's gone, Scizor will have a field day. SD Scizor will win the game automatically once Jellicent goes.

Skarm comes in on Ferro or Weavile, Spikes, then switches out just like he said. Spikes are down, 4 members of your team will henceforth be taking 12.5% damage per switch. Any stall team will frankly destroy you. As for Terrakion, for chrissakes you're running a balanced team, not hyperoffense. You can't revenge non-Scarf variants with Weavile without sacrificing a pokemon first. And what if it's SubSD? You get 6-0'd if it sets up, and if you don't let it set up, it will just kill Ferrothorn. Having no decent switchins just isn't an option for this kind of team.

AJR's suggestions are good too, although I understand that Lando-T > Lando-I costs you a lot of offensive presence. Xatu > Alakazam makes you much less Breloom weak than you are currently, I don't know what you're talking about. Try bulky Rock Polish Lando-T, you're using Spikes so the loss of power isn't that significant, and definitely try Xatu. Just to reiterate, in your team's current state any well played stall team will in all likelihood 6-0 you without much effort.

Funny you say that stall wrecks me because Landorus Incarnate is known as the BANE of stall. (also funny because generally the teams i played against were stall in general, all kinds like SunStall, RainStall, HailStall, SandStall, and weatherless Stall). Lando tears that up.

OHKOs practially everything that Stall commonly carries.


SD Scizor is easy to play around.
Typical SD Scizors run Bug Bite, Bullet Punch, and Superpower. Jell is immure to Superpower, and takes little from BP and Bug Bite.
Honko's Scizor vs All

+2 Offensive SD Scizor vs. Jellicent (OU Utility Counter)
Best Move: Bug Bite-Damage: 48.63 - 57.32%
2nd Best Move: Bullet Punch-Damage: 32.5 - 38.21%

Scizor fears the burn from Scald and can't mindlessy boost because of taunt. Even worse for Scizor, I have Recover, stalling it out.

Jellicent is regarded as the best Scizor counter around. So even if my team is weak to the bug, Jellicent forces Scizor into submission. Rotom? Ferrothorn forces it out. The most common Rotom is Bulky Attacker and Specially Defensive variants, which are crippled by Power Whip.

I dont HAVE Alakazam. I have Scarf Latios. And we can agree that Latios is better than Zam or Xatu. Xatu just makes me more Stealth Rock weak , and Scizor is still going to beat it anyway.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Xatu: 398-469 (79.57- 93.99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Factor in one switch of Stealth Rock, and thats an OHKO.

The most common lead, Terrakion, is beating Xatu.

252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Xatu: 308-366 (92.49 - 109.9%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO

Thats a dead Xatu.

Breloom is easy to beat. Weavile and Lando carry moves supereffective against it. Lando can beat it even more easily as once something is spored, Lando can set up RP or OHKO with Psychic.

Latios and Landorus the scarfer and sweeper, are immune to spikes. So as long as my offensive pair are ok, then i can blow teams apart.

Weavile is not a sweeper. It is a utility mon. Ice shard and Pursuit are the greatest utility tools ever. It can beat Dragons and Lando's counters. Thats a MAJOR plus. Wheter Weavile gets severely hurt or not doesn't matter, as its goal is to beat Celebi, 4x ice weak dragons, and Lati twins. Once those those are dead, it can go jump off a cliff as it has no other purpose. Landorus can finally sweep with ease.

Spikes is not a big issue. Nor is Stealth Rock. My main sweeper is immune to spikes.

Once again. I WILL NOT SWITCH Lando I for LANDO THERIAN! That ruins the whole purpose of the team (the core being able to handle many things in the meta and for Lando I to sweep). Plus ScarfLatios is easily dealing with ALL of the Scarf Muskeeters (Psyshock), and other common scarfers. So you saying I am weak to Scarf Terrakion is silly.

Even if Latios dies, Jellicent is beating Scarf Terrakion, Stone Edge at best 3HKOs unless its a crit. Plus the chance of 2 Stone Edges hitting is 64% roughly. Terrakion is beaten.

Skarm is beaten by Landorus and takes a crap ton from Terrakion's Close Combat.

None of the pokemon you say my team has trouble with really are problems.

 

[Halcyon.]

Hey victinivcreate! Cool team you have here. Weavile in particular is a personal favorite of mine, and I love to see people make good use of him.

I've looked over the team quite a few times, and I think most of the problems have already been ironed out by the other raters. That being said, there are a few smaller changes that I think you can make that will greatly improve the synergy and flow of the team as a whole. All of my suggestions branch from the fact that both Terrakion and Jellicent know Taunt. Taunt is a fantastic move that is completely viable on both of these 'mons, but having it on both seems redundant to me. The first of my suggestions is to change Taunt to Swords Dance on Terrakion. Taunt is usually a good move to have on hazards setters, and in the Deo-D era, Taunt was definitely the better choice on this set. But now that he's been banned, there's not too much you're going to want to Taunt. Ferrothorn and Forretress both need to be KO'd quickly before they Gyro Ball kill you, so you won't Taunt them, things like Gyarados and Dragonite won't try to set up in front of a Terrakion, which means Taunt is kind of useless on this particular Pokémon (on your team). Now, if you don't like this suggestion, then a secondary choice would be to change Taunt to Ice Beam on Jellicent. Jellicent makes a great counter to things like non-CM Lati@s, but really needs Ice Beam to do any real damage. This also gives you a better defensive check to opposing Landorus. If you opt not to give Jellicent Ice Beam, the I would also suggest changing Psychic to HP Ice on Landorus. I know you already rejected it, but HP Ice is the superior option on Landorus since it helps you take out many more opposing Pokémon like Lati@s, Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp, as well as hitting things like Celebi and Zapdos for super effective damage. It really is the better coverage move for the sweeper set.

Anyway, I hope I was able to help! Good luck with the team, sorry it took me so long to rate :/

 

[bigbear]

I have seen that you have rejected almost all suggestions to your Latios. I have a new suggestion for you. I see that spikes does ruin Jellicent/Ferrothorn so I have a suggestion of using Espeon over Latios. Espeon matches Latios in speed and SpA. Though it loses some defense points it is very useful because of its wonderful abillity it is given in 5th Generation. Magic Bounce now brings you the essence of a bouncer, like Xatu, and the essence of a Scarf Sweeper, Espeon. This is also a plus pokemon because scarfed Espeon is not common and if a check comes in to it, Keldeo with HP Bug for example, Espeon demolishes it. Again I support the fact that you need HP Ice over Psychic on Landorus. At this point, not only do you have a Keldeo counter but you also have a strong check(Also Applies with Latios). HP Ice also gives you coverage against Dragons that your team has trouble with(Ferrothorn is outsped and killed by a fire move). I have seen you reject this a awful lot, so I have opted in saying that Espeon have HP Ice to check these major threats, outspeeding all of them.

Espeon

Hide

Espeon @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Signal Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]

 

[victinivcreate1]

Thanks everyone for the rates!

@Halcyon of Light

So you are like the fifth person to say HP Ice>Psychic. And you know what, fine ill change it.

Taunt to SD would be a good thing. Ill change it.

@bigbear Jellicent beats all common hazard setters with Taunt. At best, Skarm can only get one layer of hazards up then Jelly taunts and laughs at it. Skarm's goal is to set up hazards. With one taunt, Skarm is nigh on useless. Scald it once, switch to a sweeper, and Skarm is forced out, and Lando has one RP under its belt, now ready for a full sweep.

You say my team is weak to dragons. Do you realize that I have Weavile, a great offensive check to dragons (Ice Shard)? Besides Jellicent has loads of defense investment and can beat these dragons wit Scald Burns, and Recover stalling.

But I tested ur ScarfEspeon, and in all honesty, its bad. It relies on HP Fire too much, and that drops its speed making it slower than Latios. Plus, Dragon/Psychic is a better STAB combo than monopsychic. To make it even worse, Espeon's main stab is weak against steels, which Latios can blow apart even with resisted STAB moves, due to those being significantly stronger.