Fighting to Win

FIGHTING TO WIN

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Hi,

The departure (and prior to that, arrival) of just one Pokémon – Latias – has changed the metagame in many ways. The easiest trend to identify is probably the increase in popularity of fighting-typed attackers, such as Infernape, Machamp and Breloom (though in Breloom’s case the rise can be attributed to the Smog article). After my friend posted his RMT featuring an offensive core of two fighters that simultaneously weakened each other’s counters, I was keen to outdo him.

Oh yeah, when I first entered competitive Pokémon, I basically worshipped RaikouLover and used practically every set he ever devised and shared. Although that has no longer been the case for more than a year, some of the sets he has recently posted caught my eye. I had wanted to test Bulk Up Heracross, Double Powder Breloom, and now the Anti-lead Hariyama, but I realized that fitting multiple fighting types onto balanced teams was difficult because they afforded few resistances. Eventually, I was forced to settle on an offensive core of two fighters and use the rest of my team to cover up my lack of resistances.

Team Line-up:


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Hariyama (F) @ Toxic Orb

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Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk/92 Spd/164 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Payback
- Bullet Punch

General Role: Lead Hariyama is the <3. It is a very successful anti-lead that does not have to sacrifice itself early game, often coming back to inflict heavy damage. The idea is to get Guts activated ASAP while dishing out heavy damage with double priority, often getting me off to a 6-5 lead. The sheer damage from STAB Guts-boosted Close Combat is freaky, OHKOing Machamp and halving the HP of incoming Gyarados and Salamence. I’m thankful that the set has not yet been “approved” because many don’t browse through the QC forums and have no idea what this lead is able to achieve. Hariyama’s bulk is also very valuable and makes up for its relative lack of resistances; it can take Heatran’s Fire Blast and Suicune’s Surf late-game when I’m struggling and KO them in return. I cannot deny that leads are not stopped from setting up their screens or entry hazards but things like Machamp and Dragonite don’t guarantee that either.

After using this extensively, I am convinced that it is a very solid lead. Apart from general utility, it shares a lot of synergy with my team. Many teams do not have multiple answers to fighting types, usually dedicating a Gliscor or Gyarados to handle SD Lucario along with a utility check like Scarf Heatran. By using part of my actual offensive core as my lead, it makes it easy to tell how my opponent plans to deal with fighting types. When walls are aching from eating Close Combats and Paybacks, Machamp can wrestle through defensive teams. And offensive teams cannot stand the onslaught from my core’s high-powered moves.

Moveset:
Fake Out is sort of a better Protect; 1) it activates Guts, 2) it breaks Focus Sashes, 3) delays set-up for a turn and forces mind games out of non-suicide leads and 4) stalling weather/TR teams and can halt sweeps later on thanks to the priority. Close Combat and Payback hit everything neutral but Heracross and Toxicroak (but they aren’t that common in OU and they lose 50% of their HP coming in already), forming a good combination. Bullet Punch was chosen over anything else because of pure utility. If I opt for Stone Edge or Ice Punch, Infernape is going to hit me with Blaze-boosted Fire Blast before I kill it off for good. Double priority is also a godsend since I can use Fake Out then Bullet Punch to kill things like weakened Salamence and Flygon. With these four moves I hit everything that I need to so I’m satisfied.

The EV spread was ripped from RaikouLover’s analysis; max attack with Adamant for insane power, 159 speed to outrun no-speed Tyranitar and base 60s like Swampert, with the rest in SpD to take on Heatran, Azelf and other threats better. Toxic Orb is good because I don’t play suicidally and usually switch out on the 3rd or 4th turn so I take lesser damage than if I’m burnt. Guts is… the point of this set since it protects me from Sleep Powder, screws up Rotom-A which rely on Will-O-Wisp to beat me) and doubles my attack stat.

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Gengar (F) @ Life Orb
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Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Spd/252 SAtk/4 SDef
IVs: 2 Atk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Focus Blast

General Role: LO Gengar is an offensive powerhouse that complements my physical attackers well. Things like Gliscor and Slowbro can rather successfully wall Hariyama and Machamp but they have no chance against Gengar. I can also switch from Guts Hariyama or Subbed Machamp without fearing crippling status like Thunder Wave. With 130 base SpA, Gengar packs an enormous punch, and when coupled with its convenient speed it can force switches and punch big holes mid-game; sometimes if I choose to I can sacrifice my fighters to kill Scizor, Vaporeon and stuff leaving Gengar to pull off its own sweep. Its speed also allows it to check a multitude of threats, such as MixMence and Infernape, as I OHKO both with Shadow Ball before they can even touch me. Unimaginably, Gengar also contributes a lot to my defensive synergy thanks to its immunities to Ground and Fighting and a 4x resistance to U-turn.

Moveset:
Timid is needed for Infernape and Salamence. Shadow Ball and Focus Blast are obvious. In my opinion, Gengar needs Substitute as a buffer against all the Tyranitar and Scizor running around. Without it, I will be vulnerable against ScarfTar’s Pursuit and have to successfully predict around Bullet Punch/Pursuit from Scizor. On a Pokémon as fragile as Gengar, one wrong prediction will force it out and there won’t be many more chances to squeeze it back in. Substitute obviously eases the need for predicting switch-ins and protects me from statuses, and can also guarantee crucial kills/hits on problem Pokémon (like Jirachi). It’s also useful to scout for sets because I’ve been caught off guard by -Shuca Heatran and Expert Belt Flygon too many times. =( Anyway I don’t need Pain Split because Blissey is obviously not a problem for this team. Instead, making sure Forretress and Scizor are gone ASAP helps my fighers out a lot, hence the inclusion of HP Fire.

Changes: None. Maybe I should drop my HP IV to 29 which will round down LO recoil but reduce my HP Fire base power from 70 to 69.

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Salamence (F) @ Life Orb

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Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Rash nature (+SAtk, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Roost

General Role: My only real answer to stall and a very powerful offensive partner to Machamp. Basically, I suck at using Salamence because I have no idea when to use what move but with this team many things become a lot more straightforward. I usually just spam Draco Meteor because if I get things wrong and a Steel comes in most of the time I’ll be able to use it to set-up a Substitute on Machamp. I try to avoid prediction wars because my priority is just getting my opponent’s core weakened and identifying Pokémon that I can use to get in another team member and begin a late-game plan. And I also want to abuse this guy before he goes to Ubers (if he does).

Moveset: Classic MixMence is a terror to stall teams and packs an extremely powerful Draco Meteor that rips apart physical walls like Gliscor and Zapdos. However, I have opted for Earthquake over Brick Break because I do not need as much Blissey or Tyranitar coverage. It’s better for the team since I’m able to KO Heatran and Infernape reliably. Fire Blast screws up the Steels that aren’t hit by Earthquake and is a general coverage move. BTW, Draco Meteor + Fire Blast OHKOs Specially Defensive Skarmory after Stealth Rock, something New MixMence fails to accomplish. Roost is also seriously great on Salamence; only around 25% of them ran them last month while 50% ran Dragon Dance, which means teams who rely on LO recoil, secondary damage or revenge killers for when I’m at low HP are left helpless as I can stay alive and spray my high powered moves for a very long time. The EVs are standard; now many base 100s are going max speed with Jolly so I don’t want to sacrifice all that power for a speed tie. Instead I get to outrun Adamant Lucario and the rest of the EVs are invested into my offences.

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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
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Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Iron Head
- Thunderpunch
- U-turn
- Trick

General Role: Jirachi is my catch-all revenge killer for stuff that attempt to set-up on my fighters. Gyarados and Salamence might attempt to set-up their Dragon Dances but if they know I have a Scarf Jirachi in my arsenal they’re much less likely to attempt to set-up. And if they do, I’ll be able to take them out (though tying with Max Speed Salamence is ugly). Apart from that, Jirachi is my only Steel-type and is forced to absorb all the dragon-typed attacks and Explosions early game, which is quite unfortunate.

Moveset: This is scarfed with max speed to catch all the Dragon Dancers, with the rest of the EVs in Atk to maximize damage. Iron Head, apart from being a reliable STAB attack (and source of ragequits) can take down weakened Salamence, removing the need for Ice Punch. Instead, I get to use U-turn to scout and a fast U-turn is incredibly useful early game. Trick screws up physical walls who can no longer handle my fighters effectively when holding a choice item, and effectively removes Crocune and similar stat-uppers as a threat.

Changes: Thinking of using a buffed up Metagross with a resist-berry that can KO Gyarados, Salamence and Heatran without relying on any speed ties. Metagross can carry Stealth Rock too, which will help with some current issues.

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Celebi @ Leftovers
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Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/40 Spd
IVs: 14 Atk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Grass Knot
- Thunder Wave
- Recover

General Role: Celebi is here for its resistances and ability to take on bulky waters that refuse to get KO-ed. Apart from that, it sets up Stealth Rock for the team, since I can usually go from Hariyama -> Celebi against things like Swampert, Gyarados and Gliscor. Although in theory it shares a lot of defensive synergy with my core, I always feel something is lacking. Usually when I get in, I have to open with Stealth Rock since I like to get it down ASAP to abuse switches my core forces. However, Celebi lures in Fire-types like Heatran and Infernape without fail, and since I only have one resist (Salamence) it can really screw me up. Other times when I decide to open with Thunder Wave the match usually ends with Stealth Rock never being set-up, which sucks.

Moveset: As mentioned, Stealth Rock and Thunder Wave help to support the team, weakening the opponent’s team while slowing some of them down enough for Machamp to outspeed and KO them. Usually the bulky Pokémon that are moderately fast (Zapdos, Gliscor) are removed by Salamence, the faster threats (ScarfTar, Infernape) are slowed down by Celebi, and the slow shit like Forretress and Hippowdon can be directly killed off by Machamp, so the synergy is pretty nice. Only issue as mentioned is the Stealth-Rock / Thunder Wave dilemma I face in most matches, and paralysis support from just one member is sometimes insufficient. Anyway, Grass Knot is mandatory to beat bulky waters and Recover is to stay around and tank hits longer. The Bold nature and EVs are standard fare, maximizing my physical defence while giving enough speed to beat Jolly Tyranitar by two points (in case I want to get a Thunder Wave in against SubRoost Zapdos).

Changes: Might scrap Celebi altogether =( But if I get an alternative Stealth Rock user I can add something like Earth Power on Celebi, and free it up a lot.

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Machamp (F) @ Leftovers

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Ability: No Guard
EVs: 192 HP/224 Atk/92 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Dynamicpunch
- Payback
- Stone Edge

General Role: The final piece of the jigsaw. While it is wrong to say Machamp is the focus of my team and a late-game sweeper, this team was built with it and Hariyama as the core, then filling in teammates with good offensive and defensive synergy. Usually, Hariyama is there early-game to punch holes and scout. Machamp is meant to close out the game with its high power and durability. I sometimes introduce Machamp mid-game though, to kill off paralyzed Heatran or to take a Rock-move when Hariyama is weakened (I like it to stay alive for its useful priority). The confusion rate is also more beneficial in the early stages of the game by screwing up cores and shuffling the opponent’s team. Anyway, this is a powerhouse with the right support, as when the flyers are gone thanks to Salamence and Gengar and the fast stuff are paralyzed by Celebi or taken out altogether by Jirachi, Machamp can really have a field day.

Moveset: Substitute + 3 attacks is the way to go since only three moves are needed for perfect type coverage and if I want to weaken the opponent early I need a Substitute to ease prediction and guarantee a hit. Dynamicpunch, Payback and Stone Edge are a classic combination that hits a lot of OU for super effective damage. Adamant was chosen to maximize base stats and general power, with 92 speed EVs to beat out 8 Spe Scizor. Investing more didn’t seem worth it because base 70s like Skarmory now carry a lot more speed and I have no idea where to aim for; anyway getting the jump on them isn’t that useful. The HP stat goes to a one-over leftovers number to maximize recovery, with the rest in Attack for power. There isn’t much more to elaborate about this set apart from how beastly it is.

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I can't remember the specific team-building process anymore. Hariyama and Machamp came together from a particular post in the Lead Hariyama thread which established how useful it would be to pair them together in the same team. Gengar and Salamence completed my offensive core with their high-powered SpA moves and good offensive synergy, while Celebi and Jirachi formed my defensive core to generally counter threats that got past my attackers. The team is sort of stable now, but as you can see there are several issues that need to be addressed (especially the crippling weakness to Fire).

Please rate my team!
And thanks in advance :]
 
Hi. I LOVE the core of this team. However you have a huge problem with the two OU Fire-types, Heatran and Infernape. Salamence is the only Pokemon you have to resist Fire-type attacks but with Life Orb and Stealth Rock, it won't be standing up to more than one Fire Blast. Plus, Infernape may carry Stone Edge or Hidden Power Ice. Life Orb Heatran can even OHKO Machamp and Hariyama if they had taken a bit of prior damage (poison damage, substitute damage). Nobody on your team is particularly easy to replace, but I think removing Gengar would be the safest bet. Starmie fits decently in Gengar's place, however a Life Orb set would be too frail to consistently stand up to said threats. A more creative EV spread would do, perhaps 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 Spe. Maxing HP gives you optimal bulk against Heatran and Infernape, while the Defense EVs help you stand up to Gyarados. As to your moves, Surf and Recover are a given. You can play around however with Thunderbolt, Rapid Spin, and Ice Beam.

Without Gengar, you may need another Lucario check. What you can easily do is replace Trick or U-turn on Jirachi and give it Fire Punch to probably kill Lucario after a Defense drop. The final thing you should do is give Salamence a Naive nature. In this metagame, Speed is everything. You must be able to tie with Jirachi and enemy Salamence. Good luck.
 
Thanks for the rate and suggestion, it makes a lot of sense. Now I like to switch Gengar into predicted U-turns from Flygon etc, which is something I lose with Starmie, but considering the crippling weakness to fire I'm almost sure it is worth it. I will use your suggested Starmie set for sure, but I'm thinking of including Thunder Wave on the set for additional support. I'm less comfortable with using max speed Salamence, but I will test it. I'll go 252 SpA 252 Spe, is that okay? I think that way I won't feel the drop in power from Draco Meteor that much and Earthquake should still KO everything it needs to.

Thanks again.
 
Hi, I've tested defensive Starmie and it was a great answer to fire types. The only issue was that I was constantly fearing Tyranitar and Scizor switching in, and even if I successfully predicted them coming my Surf would barely scratch them. I tested Tentacruel in Starmie's place because I realised having so many weaknesses to Ghost without a single resist was kind of suicidal. Tentacruel is a nice addition and is a good switch-in to Scizor as well, but I'm really vulnerable to Jolteon now.

Should I scrap Celebi or Jirachi for something else altogether? I'm leaving Starmie on for now but there are still many issues to be fixed.

PLEASE HELP!
 
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