First RMT Thread

[marc23]

General Info:
Hi. First of: all of these pokes have been taken from the strategy pokedex with a few small variations. Well this team I am using is about 70%/30% right now in terms of wins and losses. Overall I just try to establish an early lead by hopefully countering my opponent's lead, then setting up some enrty hazards. After that I try to shuffle my opponents pokemon around a bit while also slipping in some damage with a couple sweepers.


Team at a glance:

Threats:
My main concerns right now are...

This is not as big a problem when it is the Calm Mind variant because I can generally handle it by switching in Swampert or Starmie on the Calm Mind. The more aggressive Choice Item user makes it a bit too quick and offensive to handle without a sacrifice.

He causes some trouble with my starmie and I dont have super good coverage against his type (especially if he is Choice Scarfing).

With Vaporeon I find that my only real option is a T-bolt from Starmie, but it is a bit too bulky to be broken that way. This causes me to rely on my Heracross which takes some considerable damage from vaporeon's surf.

Togekiss's typing makes him a great option against my Machamp, Heracross, and Forretress. It is also a bit too bulky to take down with my starmie, so I would rely on something like Heatran (which could be a problem when I'm against Aura Sphere using Togekiss).

Spiritomb's typing makes him a good option against my team. I would probably switch in Forretress against him and start setting up spikes, but after that I would have some difficulty taking him down.

This guy can be pretty annoying, and I tried to set up my team to be able to absorb a 100% accurate sleep move. However, because Swampert is my main defensive wall, He can be a tricky pokemon to counter without sustaining some damage (especially if he is not a leading Breloom).

Also, Please list any threats that you believe I have not listed. This is something that would be very helpful to me in building up this team. Thanks.




The Team up close:

Machoke@ Lum Berry
Adamant/ No Guard
EV's- HP:252 ATK:160 SDef:96

Moveset:
Dynamicpunch
Stone Edge
Substitute
Encore

I used this set because of its ability to force a switch on the lead with Encore (using it on a stealth rock or failed status move), and then I typically use a substitute to set up for some damage. This strategy has worked well against leads like Azelf, T-Tar, Jolteon; however not as well against Jirachi (especially with Zen Headbutt). Machamp absorbs many special attacks quite well, so I also am able to use him to switch in against things like Mixed Attacking Lucario and sometimes Magnezone. When he has set up his substitute, he becoem a very reliable physical power in a meta that is heavy with steel types.

Forretress@ Leftovers
Careful/ Sturdy
EV's- HP:252 ATK:44 SDef: 212

Moveset:
Spikes
Toxic Spikes
Payback
Rapid Spin

Here is were I try to switch from some of Machamp's type weaknesses (crobat, non-flamethrower Azelf, alakazam, starmie) to set up some spikes. I wasnt sure whether Payback would be better than explosion. I have been using payback to help against some psychics, but without any real healing ability it sometimes seems better to just be able to explose afer setup. Suggestions here?

Most of Forretress's function other than spikes is to absorb special and physical attack, Because of his typing, he has many resistances and is only hit super effectively against fire attacks (correct me if I'm mistaken about that). I invested many EVs into Special Defense so that he could aborb many of these attacks that he resists while also dealing some damage using his payback move (agains this does seem a bit of a narrow role, so if anyone has input on this it would be helpful).

Starmie@ Life Orb
Timid/ Natural Cure
EV's- HP:4 Spd:252 SAtk:252

Moveset:
Hydropump
Psychic
Thunderbolt
Ice Beam

For the most part Starmie has been able to help with covering a lot of threats (Gyarados, some non-DragDance dragons, Infernape), but of course it doesnt switch in very well and I dont know if I should consider recover over Psychic to help get rid of Life Orb damage.

Starmie is on the team to be a sppedy answer to some of the sweepers that are generally more fragile and that really beat up the other members of my team (Salamence, Dragonite, Flygon, Celebi). He is pretty much the most fragile member on my team, however, and his lower special attack does create problems with getting through some bulky water types (Slowbro, vaporeon, suicune).

Heracross@ Choice Band
Adamant/ Guts
EV's-HP:96 ATK:252 SPD:160

Moveset:
Megahorn
Close Combat
Stone Edge
Sleep Talk

Here is where I had some real trouble deciding between Choice Band and Scarf. My main goal here was to have someone who could absorb the sleep from one of my concerns (like Breloom or Gengar) and then use it as an advantage (hence the sleep talk). I could use some input on the variety of choices open with Heracross in general.

This pokemon is one that I hoped would deal with the threat of sleep inflicting pokemon (those mentioned above and sometimes Bronzong). The Guts abilty would then kick in and give me some powerful sweeping ability. Beyond that, Heracross's coverage helps with countering some threats that do neutral or reduced damage to him (Hippowdon, Scizor, Suicune, Lucario, Starmie, Vaporeon, Gyarados).

Swampert@ Leftovers
Relaxed/Torrent
EV's- HP:252 ATK:4 DEF:252

Moveset:
Stealth Rocks
Ice Beam
Earthquake
Roar

I use Swampert to break stat boosters (suicune, Scizor, D-dancers) and also to provide some switch in power to other threats to my team (heatran, Lucario, infernape). Swampert's ability to shuffle my opponent's pokemon around helps a great deal in maximizing the amount of damage that I inflict with the spikes laid down my Forretress and the rocks laid down by Swampert. This is also a huge asset in gettiing rid of some of the flying types that hurt my team (crobat, togekiss, salamence, dragonite, gyarados, Staraptor). But Swampert's general functionis to serve as a defensive wall to help protect my more offensive pokemon against members of an opposing team that cant penetrate Swampert's defense or typing (those mentioned above plus lucario, t-tar, flygon)

Heatran@ Choice Scarf
Naive/Flash Fire
EV's- ATK:4 SPD:252 SAtk:252

Moveset:
Fire Blast
Dragon Pulse
Explosion
Earth Power

Seemed like a good choice with the number of pokemon on my team with a weakness to fire (plus he makes for a great absorber of will-o-wisp). He also helps to cover some more of the dragons and makes me have a nice tool against Celebi. He is my main counter for Jirachi right now, but I feel I need more and Im not sure how well explosion will work on him (ive never actually used it in battle). The move explosion is supposed to serve as a resort to use against a Latias or Blissey that comes in to try to take advantage of my being stuck on one move (but agin, im not sure how well this strategy works yet. Anyone out there able to speak to its effectiveness?). Overalll Heatran serves as a more stable Special sweeper than Starmie, and he also adds to the coverage that Starmie does not handle well (grass, steel, ice, bug, dark).

Thanks a lot for any helpful input!

 

[Plus]

Hello

For a team that you have described as trying to get an early lead through shuffling your opponent's pokemon around, I feel that your team is quite offensive, with dominant sweepers like Starmie, Heatran, and Machamp overpowering Forretress in your team. It's more of a bulky offensive - ish team by the looks of it, so I think I'll go down two routes for your team if you want to establish a more defensive style, or a more offensive style.

For a bit fatter team, I would suggest going with Tyranitar and Rotom-h over Starmie and Heracross for a couple of reasons. First off, your team doesn't have much of a backbone to fall on Specs Latias, and you're best off trying to switch in something like forretress or heatran which will take quite a ton of damage, while they switch and keep on doing hit and runs with you, especially considering you have something like Swampert whom it can take advantage of. Next off, your Swampert provides great coverage for your team defensively in terms of phazing threats, however it leaves other defensive threats such as forretress to simply come in and spin or lay out spikes. Spinning, most importantly, should be very harmful to your team considering you lack the spin blocker or constant pressure to deal with things such as Forretress. If you are sure you are going with an entry hazard and semidefensive direction, then you must also take note of something else, which is the very big ground weakness in this team -- you lack the immunes for something like mixmence pounding off Draco Meteor and Earthquake on team, and your best responses require situational switching, aka predicting. Rotom-h will provide the help your team needs as it nets you an equally important fighting immune which your team lacks at the moment, and packs a little bit of the punch that Starmie brought to the team.

Rotom-h @ Choice Scarf
Timid 252 Spa / 252 spe / 4 HP
Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Will o Wisp or Overheat / Trick

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Jolly 252 atk / 252 spe / 4 hp
Stone Edge / Crunch / Pursuit / Superpower

As of now you would have 3 choice scarfers, obviously that isn't necessary so I would suggest you run restalk heatran which is a great response to rotom-a, and gives you the status absorber you want on your team. Rotom gives you speed and a gyarados check, the important immunes, and Trick against stall teams who could potentially give you trouble otherwise. It's also good for a last minute trick against sweepers like crocune that can give your team a handful, actually.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Calm 252 HP / 224 Spe / 32 SpD
Lava Plume / Roar / Rest / Sleep Talk

Restalk Heatran works great in forcing out switches for Scizor and whatnot, and with this you can get better results with your spikes as well as giving common switchins potential burns in the process, such as salamence gyarados or latias, the first 2 which would really hate to have a burn. It's able to outspeed defensive celebi as well.

With these changes you address the given threats you have described as such:

Latias / Gengar : Tyranitar can revenge kill both, though it has to be wary of Surfs from Specs Latias.

Vaporeon: Rotom can kill it off with Thunderbolt, otherwise you can set up on it with Forretress.

Togekiss: You have Heatran to deal with non Aura Sphere variants, it doesnt care about the Twave that much considering it has restalk. You can also Stone Edge it with Tyranitar and use Rotom-h to kill it off as well.

Breloom: You can use Heatran to spore, and Rotom to kill it off. Heatran also outspeeds most Breloom so it shouldn't be that problematic.

Spiritomb: You can use Heatran to roar it out, Tyranitar to Crunch and Rotom to Trick.

While these changes may address said threats, these changes also give you a minor weakness to bulky waters, even with Rotom. That being said, it isn't a bad idea to consider changing Swampert to Vaporeon as a result, giving SR to perhaps Forry over TS, but I feel like I've changed enough so I'll leave my rate up to you for this one.

But that's not all :). If you wish to go in an offensive direction, there is also an option to do so. You can ditch the spikes idea in your team and go with a playstyle that minimizes the amount of turns your opponent can get on you. By taking off Forretress and Heracross from your team, you give Rotom-a more of a problem of switching in, as Rotom-a loves to come in on both of them, even WoW variants will come on a payback should they have to. Again, Latias would prove problematic to your current team, so in that case I will suggest a Metagross / Salamence combination, which covers the trapping issues, and the offensive issues as well.

Metagross @ Occa Berry
Adamant 244 HP 252 Atk 12 Spe
Meteor Mash / Bullet Punch / Pursuit / Explosion

Salamence @ Life Orb
Naive 252 SpA 252 Spe 4 HP
Draco Meteor / Brick Break / Fire Blast / Roost

Metagross is given the usual lead spread, but has a trapper set which allows you to beat off Latias and Gengar easier than Scizor can as it can actually laugh off Hp fires, and it isn't locked into Choice Band and can Explode at any given moment, even on something quite annoying like a Vaporeon! :) It is a bit more mobile than Scizor in the fact that it isn't locked into one move, so you have much a more easier time dealing with threats this way. Salamence gives good synergy to Metagross and compensates for your Ground weakness through its flying type, and can rip apart Stall teams. You don't really need a status absorber so long as you keep the ball rolling with your team.

Hope I helped, good luck with your team whichever way you may choose!

 

[marc23]

First off, thanks for the great input. I definitely see some of these weaknesses in the team that you mentioned. I really like the idea of using t-tar and rotom, but I was wondering about the moveset for Heatran.

Lavaplume
Roar
Rest
Sleeptalk

I can see how roar will help me shuffle my opponent around with my spikes, but might earthpower (to replace roar) help him against other heatran?
Other than this I am going to try out those suggestions you made. Thanks again.

Anyone have input on payback vs. explosion on Forretress?

 

[Pollux-Castor]

Just switch Swampert with Machamp, give Machamp Bulk Up and Rest instead of Sub and Encore, then use the Rest/Sleep Talk Heatran you brought up. Forget Rapid Spin on Forretress, you won't need it. Use either Gyro Ball or Explosion in that spot. Also consider Thunderwave support, Starmie could use that move instead of Psychic.