first team, probably needs quite a few changes :P

gukinator

First Competitive Team (Hail)

this is a hail team, all of the pokemon here were thought out on my own, a few were heavily influenced by smogon though, so it shouldnt be too bad (i hope) this is my first real team so feel free to rip it apart, as i am a nub
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Abomasnow @ leftovers
modest
252 hp, 128 spA, 128 def
- Blizzard
- Leech seed (breed with shroomish)
- Giga drain
- Protect

My interest in hail first got started because abomasnow is my favorite pokemon :3, other than that hes really annoying to battle with constant hail and 100% accuracy blizzard, along with 30% change to break protect, which can really screw up some sets. he's my current lead mainly because of snow warning, i wont have to worry about using hail unless the enemy can remove the weather effect. my first move when an opponent switches in is leech seed, because it adds to the survivablity of abomasnow. i then blizzard until i have low health and, depending on how low my health is, i either protect or giga drain. if i protect i will gain health from leech seed and leftovers, and the enemy will lose health from hail and leech seed. if im really low on health i'll use giga drain, for more health recovery. its not the best lead i know, but i likeit.
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Walrein @ leftovers
ice body
Bold
220 hp, 240 def, 48 spe
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Surf

i added walrein because i wanted a staller to cause damage in the hail, and wallrein not only stalls really well with substitute and protect, but it gains hp while the enemy looses hp in the hail. this moveset is straight off of smogon, i considered spending more time coming up with my own set, but this seemed like the best it could possibly be. Surf instead of Blizzard because almost all of my other pokemon have blizzard and i need to be able to take care of ground types.
sorry about that, i kinda skimmed through the rules, i'll go read them more in depth. i couldnt find the edit post button, will it appear once the thread it unlocked? anyway, here are the changes (in bold):

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Empoleon @ leftovers
Bold
128 def, 128 spD, 252 hp
- yawn (breed with biderp)
- stealth rock
- flash cannon
- hail/Blizzard/Surf

i was surprised to see that no one used empoleon on hail teams, it has a 4x resist to hail to make the hail do virtually no damage every turn, and has many other resistances to make it a valuable asset to the team. basically i stealth rock then use yawn, giving the oppenent a choice to either switch out and take stealth rock/ hail damage next turn or fall asleep and get hailed to death. flash cannon for some STAB damage and hail to get things started again if the enemy takes the hail away.

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Froslass @ Bright Powder
snow cloak
32 hp/ 224 spA/ 252 spe
- Blizzard/Confuse Ray
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Substitute

another straight off of smogon, i saw that almost everyone who has a hail team has Froslass and this one seemed to fit what i need, i could also go with the lead set or Blizzard, Shadow Ball, Taunt, Destiny Bond/Confuse Ray which is my own set. im leaning more towards confuse ray because almost all of my other pokemon have blizzard, but that would leave frosslass with no attacking moves, which is just asking for a taunt.

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Mamoswine @ Bright Powder
snow cloak
252 Atk/ 252 def/ 4 hp
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Hail
- Stone Edge

this is basically a sweeper, but with a few changes that increase the survivablity. first off, i replaced 252 spe with 252 def to add power to avalance and because mamoswine doesnt have very good speed anyway, i didnt think the +63 points did a whole lot. second i replaced a choice item or other attack booster with bright powder, because with snow cloak its difficult to hit mamoswine in the hail. i absolutely need earthquake as a lot of my other team members are weak to electric, avalanche is because i need a physical attack. then hail and stone edge are fillers, stone edge for more type coverage and hail incase the hail goes away

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Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold
252 def/ 252 hp/ 4 spD
serene grace
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder Bolt
- Softboiled
- sing

ive never used a blissey before but it seems easy enough. aromatherapy to heal status of entire team, thunder bolt for damage, softboiled to heal, sing to put enemy to sleep so they can take more hail damage, serence grace because it boosts the chance to freeze of hail

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Heatran @ Leftovers
Calm
244 hp/ 32 spA/ 12 spD/ 220 spe
- sub
- torment
- protect
- Lava Plume

my set was close to the one on smogon, so i just made it into the one from smogon since that one is probably more thought out. my set was protect, taunt, magma storm, earth power.
smogon uses torment instead of taunt because not many pokemon have more than one move strong enough to break heatran's substitute.

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i know i have 7 pokemon there, i want to be able to switch around the team if i know my enemy, but if you think i should cut out a pokemon all together, i dont need to be able to switch around. this team will be used against friends and (maybe) online so keep in mind that i wont always be facing the normal OU pokemins. anyway, whats ur opinion on my team?
 
ive been testing this team on shoddy
so far ive won 1, and been completely destroyed 2 times, once by
azumarril, with aqua jet, never used anything else
i thought i could handle it with giga drain and thunderbolt, maybe i just suck
the 2nd time heracross with close combat destroyed me

both times froslass seemed to do nothing for me, should i replace it or am i just using it wrong?
 
I see a large weakness to any Lucario variant here. He outspeeds just about everyone of your team and can OHKO each of them with CC or Crunch. Also a couple notes here:

Hail does a consistent 6% dmg to any pokemon that's not ice-type, so resistances don't count.
5 of your Pokes are weak to Fighting >.>

You should consider changing Bright Powder to Icy Rock to increase your Hail duration on Mamoswine in case Abomasnow goes down (which isn't all to hard either). Well that's it, I'm sure better players will be commenting soon with better advice.
 
ooohh now i see why peope dont use empoleon, thanks im gunna switch him out for
tentacruel, how does this look in place of empoleon:
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Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
calm
liquid ooze
252 HP, 120 Def, 138 SDef
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Blizzard (Sludge Bomb)

toxic spikes to set up some turn based damage, because empoleon's stealth rock needs to be replaced, rapid spin because other team's stealth rock does a lot of damage seeing as my team is mostly ice, surf to take care of infernape, and sludge bomb for a stab poison move, which might be bad if the person switch in is already badly poisoned, or blizzard because of 100% accuracy
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i also replaced blissey's sing with psychic and got rid of froslass altogether, i might replace her with rotom F, i just dont know what to replace out of
abomasnow, walrein, tentacthulu, blissey, heatran, mamoswine
 
There is just so much issues with the team I'm not sure where to begin with "fixing" it.

For a start, let's look at the typing/synergy. This team has the most absurd Fighting weakness I've seen ever. I could even see things like Tyranitar and Scizor having fun with this team with hard-hitting Bullet Punches and Stone Edges.

Let's look at the lead first. Abomasnow just doesn't perform as well as one would wish as a lead. Just about every common lead out there will either accomplish their goal, eliminate or force out Abomasnow, or do both. For this alone, I'm going to recommend you change your lead entirely. Probably one of the safest leads you can use here would be Swampert.

Swampert @Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature (-Spd, +Def)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Protect / Surf / Roar

This lead is probably one of the safest leads you can use. Stealth Rock is used to punish those that switch around, and it keeps a lot of threats to these teams in check, such as Gyarados and Salamence. Earthquake lets Swampert at least contend with and handle Tyranitar easily, which is probably a Hail team's biggest nemesis, alongside getting excellent coverage with Ice Beam. The last slot is up to preference, but the best option would be Protect. You can scout your opponent's moves, block Explosions, and help stall turns out and cause poison damage. Surf is another option if you want something that'll do more overall to the likes of Skarmory or the Rotom appliances. Roar is also a decent option to phaze anything that may have boosted up and rack up entry hazard damage.

Your lead is established, but now you need some way to naturally bring in the hail, which is where Abomasnow comes in. Abomasnow is actually fairly bulky, at the cost of an amalgamation of weaknesses. This team is a bit more defensive, so a more practical set would to use a SubSeed set.

Abomasnow @Leftovers
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Speed, -Attack)
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Blizzard
- Focus Punch / Protect / Grass Knot / Wood Hammer

Abomasnow has a few advantages over other subseeders, such as Blizzard. Abomasnow functions best against the likes of bulky Waters, such as Suicune, and some Electric users, like Jolteon and friends. The EV spread is to outspeed most walls while letting Blizzard retain a large punch. Substitute and Leech Seed make for a vicious combination, making a cycle that most pokes will struggle to break, and their efforts will be futile. Grass-types like Celebi are immune to Leech Seed, and that's where a hard-hitting Blizzard comes in. The last move is down to preference, but the usual choice is Focus Punch, since it's easy to use behind a substitute and can severely hurt the likes of Blissey, Heatran, Tyranitar, and other Fighting-weaks, and can even kill them. Protect does let you scout out hard-hitting offensive moves and figure out what your opponent might use. Grass Knot and Wood Hammer are there if you want to more quickly kill off bulkier Waters, but you might get forced out more often than not. If the lack of bulk hurts, change the EV spread to 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD with a Calm or Sassy nature, letting you handle bulky Waters and Electrics more efficiently.

I'll pick up where I left off later, I'm too tired to continue trying to fix this mess.

Oh, and as a last note, a Rotom forme would benefit your team majorly, in particular Rotom-H, since he can handle the likes of things like Scizor and Lucario. I'll expand on it later.
 
thanks a lot man, apparantly i needed more help than i though :P
i replaced mamoswine with swampert, but im not quite sure about the rotom, wouldnt rotom ice be better? and isnt heatran there for fire moves, why would you need heat rotom? thanks again
 
Posting 7 pokemon makes things very confusing - it is hard to know whether things cover each other's weaknesses when things are taken away. First, we need to decide which members to use - normally I try to avoid major changes, but due to the 7 pokes, and the many problems, I'll have to make an exception here. In general, Walrein, Abomasnow, Rotom-A and Tentacruel are your givens for a hail stall team. Tentacruel provides toxic spikes necessary to damage opponents while stalling. Rotom is necessary as a spin blocker and to cover fighting and steel weaknesses

Next, you probably want a Stealth Rock user. Normally, myself, I use Gliscor - he provides SR, with reliable recovery, and a check to Tyranitar, the greatest problem for hail teams, and has great defensive synergy with Tentacruel. Also it counters Lucario wonderfully. Here is the set:

Gliscor @ leftovers
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252hp 40def 216spe
-Earthquake
-Stealth Rock
-Roost
-Taunt/Stone Edge


Swampert is a good option too, but lacks recovery. Heatran does a good job and covers the fire weakness of hail teams.

The final pokemon must provide coverage of the remaining weaknesses. Using Swampert/Heatran works quite well. Gliscor is probably best paired with a Rock-resist such as Hariyama or Machamp, since the team will be weak to it otherwise.

Onto sets. If you lead with Abomasnow, I recommend that you run the following set:

Abomasnow@leftovers
Nature:Sassy (+SpDef, -Spe)
EVs: 252hp, 252SpDef, 4SpA
IVs:0-19 speed
-Blizzard
-Substitute
-Leech Seed
-Focus Punch/Protect

Specially defensive subseed Abomasnow. Yes, this set is deliberately very slow; the idea is to be slower than Hippowdon and Tyranitar leads, allowing you to keep your hail. This is an ideal counter to Bulky waters as they will often be unable to break your subs. Focus Punch works well behind a sub and is great against Tyranitar, but Protect works well for Stalling - you get more recovery, and the opponent takes Toxic, leech seed, and hail damage. If you run it outside of the lead position, the set posted above, or the Choice Scarf set is recommended

If you run Toxic Spikes, replace Toxic on Walrein with Roar.

The Tentacruel set you posted is fine, although I would recommend leftovers over Black Sludge. Black sludge merely allows trick users to cripple another member of your team.

Empoleon has no place on a hail team. As you've said, you should replace Frosslass with Rotom. Here is the set I recommend:

Rotom-F @ Leftovers
Nature: bold
EVs : 252hp 120def 132spDef
-Thunderbolt
-Blizzard/will-o-wisp
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

You need RestTalk since his longevity will be hampered by hail. Blizzard gives almost unresisted attacks, but will-o-wisp can help vs powerful phsical attackers such as Ttar and Lucario. It is, however, much less effective in conjunction with Toxic Spikes, particularly when you are unable to chose your moves.

I think Mamoswine should be dropped. I should add that you do not need a secondary hail user. 5 or 8 turns of hail will not do enough damage. If you come up against another weather team, make special efforts to keep Abomasnow alive.

Again I'm suggesting you remove Blissey, but this is the recommended set:

Blissey @ leftovers
nature: calm
EVs: 252 def 80 SpAtk 176 spDef
-Wish
-Protect
-Flamethrower
-Thunder wave

If you use the Rotom set I suggested, you will have a status absorber, so you would not really need a Cleric so much. This set is helpful for restoring the health of those without reliable recovery - i.e every single pokemon if you don't run Gliscor. Thunderwave is used because toxic spikes is poisoning most enemes anyway; this would hit those that are immune. Blissey needs significant spDef investment, due to threats such as Specs Lucario, Flash Fire Specs Heatran, and Porygon-Z, although these are becoming less common. It also just improves it for its normal purpose - shrugging off special attacks like nothing.

Torment Heatran does not work in Hail (as much as I love the set) - it really needs its leftovers recovery. There are two possible ways to go here - Scarf Heatran as a revenge killer, or a more defensive set such as RestTalk Heatran, or a substitute+ 3 attacks (or maybe 2 attacks + will-o-wisp) set.

EDIT: Rotom-a should go over Blissey, but could also go over Heatran. Flash cannon has terrible coverage with the other moves. You shoulg run Fire Blast/Earth Power/Explosion/Dragon pulse (or HP grass.) You proabably want a Naive nature too. If Blissey runs two attacks, it should be thunderbolt/icebeam. Pschic has terrible super-effective coverage, which is what Blissey needs.
Also:
im using ultamania's swampert because he seems to be able to take down tyranitar with ease (OHKO with ice beam),
Click to expand...
What? Ice beam barely scratches Ttar. EQ does a lot though. Heatran should either keep the scarf or run leftovers. Life Orb is not really viable with hail, and you need a revenge killer.

the point of being a revenge killer is to have good coverage and powerfull moves so you can swich in and take something out right?
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A revenge killer needs to be faster thean the opponent, usually. Thats what the Scarf is for, although it may still not be enough, for example, to deal with dragon dancers.

Delko's Hail team as linked below is good and solid. The main problem with Hail teams is that they all look the same, and this is for a reason. Please do not use Black Sludge as he does though. I tried to persuade hiim at the time.

Good luck with the team!
 
thanks for all of your advice, im using ultamania's swampert because he seems to be able to take down tyranitar with ease (OHKO with ice beam), or at least the ones ive faced, and since he has stealth rock theres really no need for cliscor.
i wanna work in rotom but i dont really know where, my current pokemon are
swampert (lead) walrein (stall) tentacruel (rapid spin + toxic spikes) blissey (healer, has thunderbolt and psychic), heatran (revenge killer) and abomasnow (hail starter)
i changed my heatran, the point of being a revenge killer is to have good coverage and powerfull moves so you can swich in and take something out right? does this look good?
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Heatran@Choice Scarf
Flash fire
Rash
252 spe, 252 spA, 4 hp
-flamethrower
-dark pulse
-earth power
-flash cannon
good coverage, i know keeping flash cannon in there doesnt add any coverage that this move set doesnt already have, but its a good STAB move
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i seem to get stuck a lot as heatran, i'll switch it in, then kill the enemy, then i would be able to kill the next guy but my choice scarf prohibits it, is there a better item i can use?
 
gukinator said:
this is a hail team, all of the pokemon here were thought out on my own, a few were heavily influenced by smogon though, so it shouldnt be too bad (i hope) this is my first real team so feel free to rip it apart, as i am a nub
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460-3.png

Abomasnow @ leftovers
modest
252 hp, 128 spA, 128 def
- Blizzard
- Leech seed (breed with shroomish)
- Giga drain
- Protect

The Lead here is fine, the only thing is I don't see the point in protect, because scouting a lead is useless. Try Earthquake to help with Infernape, Tyranatar and Heatran Leads.

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Walrein @ leftovers
ice body
Bold
220 hp, 240 def, 48 spe
- Protect
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Surf

This is fine.

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Empoleon @ leftovers
Bold
128 def, 128 spD, 252 hp
- yawn (breed with biderp)
- stealth rock
- flash cannon
- hail/Blizzard/Surf

Hail does 6% damage each turn. Resistances don't matter. Switch to something like Tentacruel. That'll also help remove some of your fighting weakness's. EDIT: I've seen you already did that.

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Froslass @ Bright Powder
snow cloak
32 hp/ 224 spA/ 252 spe
- Blizzard/Confuse Ray
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes
- Substitute

Why would you have spikes on a pokemon that should be a sweeper? Spikes should be kept for leads. I suggest keeping Blizzard and Confuse Ray.

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Mamoswine @ Bright Powder
snow cloak
252 Atk/ 252 def/ 4 hp
- Earthquake
- Avalanche
- Hail
- Stone Edge

This will do fine.

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Blissey @ Leftovers
Bold
252 def/ 252 hp/ 4 spD
serene grace
- Aromatherapy
- Thunder Bolt
- Softboiled
- sing

With your Fighting weakness, this wall is useless. With Scizors (SuperPower) and Lucario (Close Combat) on nearly every team, I suggest a more effective wall. You'd be best to make Mamoswine with max defence stats, and sweep with that.

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Heatran@Choice Scarf
Flash fire
Rash
252 spe, 252 spA, 4 hp
-flamethrower
-dark pulse
-earth power
-flash cannon

This is a better heatran.
However, Hail teams are pretty much useless.

A team with A SD Scizor and an Infernape will sweep you without a problem.



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i know i have 7 pokemon there, i want to be able to switch around the team if i know my enemy, but if you think i should cut out a pokemon all together, i dont need to be able to switch around. this team will be used against friends and (maybe) online so keep in mind that i wont always be facing the normal OU pokemins. anyway, whats ur opinion on my team?
Click to expand...
 
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