VGC First try to a VGC2016 team

[Elgonian]

Hi all! I'm Elgonian and this is my first team of VGC. I will try to make simple what is my objective in the team and all the things that I think I can improve!


Introduction

With this team I tried to better hit first and hard, but after reaching 1500 on PS!, I think i can't improve without some help.
Now I will try to explain what each mon do.


The Team

Analisys

Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 104 HP / 208 SpA / 48 SpD / 148 Spe
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Aeroblast
- Protect

Lugia, the most recent change to the team. In first place Xerneas was here but with so many steel out and the TR I decided to change. What I want from Lugia is a little set-up for late game sweep. Leftovers give her bulk and with the EVs i can't handle at least a hard hit of the metagame.
Some calcs:

• 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 104 HP / 0 Def Lugia: 136-161 (70.1 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• 252+ SpA Primal Kyogre Origin Pulse vs. 104 HP / 48 SpD Lugia in Heavy Rain: 99-117 (51 - 60.3%) -- 85.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
  
• 208 SpA Lugia Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon: 84-100 (48 - 57.1%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO
  
• +2 252+ SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 104 HP / 48 SpD Lugia: 159-187 (81.9 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 32 Def / 64 SpD / 100 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Punch
- Protect
- Rock Slide
On my opinion the star of the team I want him to hit as hard and fast as posible so the bulk invest i a little short, just to be a 2HKO if posible. I prefer rock Slide over stone edge because of the spread damge. Some calcs:

• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Rayquaza: 90-106 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 64 Def Primal Kyogre: 109-130 (52.6 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas in Harsh Sunshine: 142-168 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252+ Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Primal Groudon: 94-112 (53.7 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Double-Edge
- Protect
- Draco Meteor

Not much explanation on this, typical MegaMence set with intimidate support he is based on hit as hard as posible before faint.

Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Wide Guard
- Feint
- Knock Off

A happy discover here. I like this mon a lot, my "bulky" support. Fake out for smeargles whimsicotts and al the supports around there. Knock off for Xerneas or mewstick, feint for secure the hit of his teammates and finally Wide Guard for all the spread Damage in the meta.

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Protect
- Sucker Punch

A TR mawile. This pokemon has the goal to counter an opposite TR, the build is the basic on Mmawile but it can works very well under Tailwind OHKoing Xerneas, Rayquazas and Salamences, countering Mkangs. I think a need a TR counter and this is my select but i'm not 100% sure.

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 152 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Brave Bird
- Quick Guard

Offensive support and my Tailwind setter, Quick guard to counter fake outs or prankster supports it maybe could be replaced by crobat but I fell more confortable with him. A priority BB secure too many kills and flare blitz can counter mawile and ferrothorn.


Well this is my team, and my little analisys, I hope you enjoying reading about it and I'm waiting your opinions, Especially on the Lugia for Xerneas trade and I'm sorry if something of the thread is no ok.

 

[iPRODiGY VGC]

This team is a bit out of my league to rate, but I would like to know a bit more about why you chose Lugia over Xerneas. You have quite a few Steel checks. Xerneas would make your team sligtly more weak to the Mega Gengar team that's running around, but I have never run into one, and because that team is so prediction heavy/skill based I imagine its only being used with consistent success at the very top of the Ladder.

Not really a rate so much as just a few thoughts. Hopefully someone will come along who is a bit more experienced then I am and give you a full rate.

 

[Draconid997]

Hi Elgonian :)
Great attempt at a first VGC team, there's a few things i would like to suggest:

Let's just look at your top 4 matchup:

Xerneas - 2 checks (groudon/mawile)
Rayquaza - 2 checks (salamence/mawile)
Groudon - 1 check (salamence)
Kyogre - 0 checks (groudon can be countered by kyogre esp with weather support)

So i've highlighted in bold a couple of major threats that you're weak to, the most prominent being primal kyogre, so these are some changes that i would suggest to alleviate these weaknesses :)
Pick what you like from this rate, it's your team so do whatever you think is right

1. Try Changing Lugia to Palkia

There are a couple of reasons for this. Firstly, its water/dragon typing means that primal kyogre's water spout is a possible 5HKO, which means that palkia is a brilliant counter to primal kyogre and also has a good matchup versus primal groudon, especially the special variants (max SpA earth power is a 3HKO).
Palkia also offers both Trick Room and Gravity support for your primal groudon, both of which are fantastic support moves that make groudon all the more deadly.
Here's my sample set:

Palkia @ Haban Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 236 HP / 20 Def / 92 SpA / 156 SpD / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Trick Room
- Earth Power
- Spacial Rend
- Gravity

Trick Room and gravity are very effective support moves for groudon to help it sweep. Gravity helps by boosting precipice blades' shaky accuracy as well as allowing it to hit flying types, and trick room aids its relatively low speed. Spacial Rend and earth power are the two STAB moves of choice for hitting relevant threats (rayquaza, kyogre and groudon etc), and a modest nature will allow palkia to operate in both Trick Room and in Tailwind.

Defensive Calcs:

• 252 SpA Life Orb Rayquaza Draco Meteor vs. 236 HP / 156 SpD Haban Berry Palkia: 121-144 (62 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 Atk Life Orb Mega Rayquaza Dragon Ascent vs. 236 HP / 20 Def Palkia: 165-196 (84.6 - 100.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
• 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 236 HP / 156 SpD Palkia: 164-194 (84.1 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• 252 SpA Primal Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 236 HP / 156 SpD Palkia in Heavy Rain: 34-40 (17.4 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO
• 252 SpA Primal Kyogre Thunder vs. 236 HP / 156 SpD Palkia: 61-72 (31.2 - 36.9%) -- 73.4% chance to 3HKO
• 252 SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 236 HP / 156 SpD Palkia: 64-76 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 99.2% chance to 3HKO
• 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 236 HP / 20 Def Palkia: 105-124 (53.8 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

2. Try Changing Mienshao to Cresselia

Since Mienshao was your support role, this is the slot that i would recommend that you switch.
Cresselia offers weather retaining support in skill swap, which means you have a much more solid matchup against both primals since you automatically restart Desolate Land, as well as giving primal groudon immunity against ground type attacks.
Cresselia also adds to the Trick Room mode of the team, as it is another great Trick Room setter and supplies invaluable helping hand support.
Sample Set:

Cresselia @ Mental Herb
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 196 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 8 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Helping Hand
- Skill Swap

A relatively simple set, the EV spread is from smogon's recent VGC '16 cresselia analysis, which i totally agree with, the EVs allow cresselia to tank 3 Dazzling Gleams from xerneas which is the most relevant to cresselia since it tanks so many hits from everything else. Mental Herb will mean that anything that attempts to taunt/encore/disable you will fail which will improve your ability to set up. Ice beam over psychic will mean that cresselia can handle landorus-t and salamence more easily, which are two big threats to physical primal groudon. 8 Speed IVs will mean cresselia underspeeds groudon by one point, which means it can skill swap safely each time

3. Have something to check smeargle

Smeargle is a massive threat to your current team, and you need something to help you with your matchup against it.
There are a number of options that you could use here. The best switch i can recommend is to use mega kangaskhan over salamence. Although this will weaken your matchup against mega rayquaza a bit, you still have the option of trick room to check it and also palkia is able to OHKO it if you conserve it well. Kangaskhan is a brilliant addition to the core of palkia/groudon/cresselia as it provides a form of offense as well as invaluable fake out support for trick room set ups etc. Kangaskhan is able to check smeargle when it leads with talonflame/cresselia

Game Plan:
Lead Kangaskhan+Talonflame/cresselia
Turn 1: Fake Out Smeargle + Tailwind/TR
Turn 2: Double-Edge Smeargle to OHKO it

Crobat would work better next to kangaskhan in order to remove moody boosts with haze which could otherwise mean that double-edge wouldn't OHKO (4 HP / 252 Def with +2 Defence). Kangaskhan/Crobat is also a great lead against the common Smeargle/Xerneas lead strategy.

Here's my sample set:

Kangaskhan-Mega (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Double-Edge
- Sucker Punch
- Low Kick

This EV spread will help kangaskhan to function in both Trick Room and Tailwind, given its adamant nature. Maximum offence is very useful whilst under temporary speed control

Other things you can use:
Taunt Crobat (Lum Berry) over talonflame, although haze crobat could work with kangaskhan too as mentioned
Lum Berry/Magic Coat on cresselia

Other Small Suggestions (EV Spreads etc)

EV Spread Refinements

TR Primal Groudon

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 20 SpA / 220 SpD
EVs: 252 HP / 92 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpA / 156 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Blast
- Protect
- Rock Slide

If you decide to run a Trick Room mode, these are the best sets that i can recommend. The sets are orientated around Physical TR Groudon, so if you prefer to run higher offence, then i would recommend the first set. It allows groudon to survive a 252 SpA earth power from timid primal groudon as well as a choice band landorus-t's earthquake whilst having maximum offensive presence. The second spread will allow you to have more bulk if preferred and will survive a max SpA earth power from positive natured primal groudon and lives a single target Precipice Blades from an opposing Primal Groudon with a Jolly/any non Attack boosting nature

Faster Mawile

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Iron Head
- Play Rough
- Protect
- Sucker Punch

This spread will help you in tailwind as it allows you to outspeed mega salamence and mega rayquaza whilst under the conditions so that you can check them more easily/with impunity to stuff like overheat/fire blast

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
Level: 50
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 36 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Brave Bird
- Quick Guard

This is just my version of a bulky talonflame that i think you should maybe consider. The EVs will allow you to take a brave bird from most opposing talonflame and to still be able to OHKO it back. The HP EVs will minimise recoil from life orb (10n-1) and the Speed EVs will outspeed mega kangaskhan so you don't get hit by sucker punch.

Mienshao @ Focus Sash
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Low Kick
- Wide Guard

Since you're running focus sash, there isn't much point to running maximum HP (unless your name is smeargle) so having maximum attack will really benefit mienshao's capabilities on the team. Also since mienshao is one of your best mega kangaskhan checks, a fighting STAB like low kick/high jump kick would really be appreciated over Knock Off

That was a pretty long rate, so if there's anything you don't want to use out of all the suggestions please let me know, but i hope this helped :)

 

[Elgonian]

This team is a bit out of my league to rate, but I would like to know a bit more about why you chose Lugia over Xerneas. You have quite a few Steel checks. Xerneas would make your team sligtly more weak to the Mega Gengar team that's running around, but I have never run into one, and because that team is so prediction heavy/skill based I imagine its only being used with consistent success at the very top of the Ladder.

Not really a rate so much as just a few thoughts. Hopefully someone will come along who is a bit more experienced then I am and give you a full rate.

Sorry I was too busy on the university to answer untill now. My chose on lugia is based on the fact that we all know how to counter Xern and all teams run checks to him, but lugia is a strange pick that many people don't know what to do in order to counter him. Another advantage is the mixed dmg with Psyshock and aeroblast. I must say that at the moment I'm giving another chance to Xern but lugia is a good choice for me

 

[Elgonian]

WoW Draconid997 that was a huge and nice analys I will try to answer to all you said and why I answered like that.

About TR, I don't like the strategy too much all teams are running it and I was trying to make something different but I must admitt, I like the inclusion of dialga I will try it to see how it works.

Second one, Mineshao, I like it so much, Wideguard supporting is awesome he had win lots of games with that plus is a counter to smeargle, maybe the were running the wrong smeargle, if i predict well i can't feint or fake out on him and talonflame salamence or groudon kill him on turn 1.Knock off was there for Xerneas or supports so i think low kick is a best option with the additions of the EV spread.

You mentioned crobat, I was running him before talonflame, but maybe I didn't get the good partners to him,as kangaskhan.
Magic Coat cresselia is in my other team on PS! so funny to reflect DV on smeargle!

Definitively I will add the mawile and talonflame EVs spread to the team, they fit better with the porpouse of the team.

You where very helpfull and I will try all that you said.I like especially the fact that you give me options to my team to change to TR with Dialga, Cress or Kang;the spreads for that strategy and new options to keep my team as I have it at the moment.
You helped me a lot so many thanks!

 

[Draconid997]

WoW Draconid997 that was a huge and nice analys I will try to answer to all you said and why I answered like that.

About TR, I don't like the strategy too much all teams are running it and I was trying to make something different but I must admitt, I like the inclusion of dialga I will try it to see how it works.

Second one, Mineshao, I like it so much, Wideguard supporting is awesome he had win lots of games with that plus is a counter to smeargle, maybe the were running the wrong smeargle, if i predict well i can't feint or fake out on him and talonflame salamence or groudon kill him on turn 1.Knock off was there for Xerneas or supports so i think low kick is a best option with the additions of the EV spread.

You mentioned crobat, I was running him before talonflame, but maybe I didn't get the good partners to him,as kangaskhan.
Magic Coat cresselia is in my other team on PS! so funny to reflect DV on smeargle!

Definitively I will add the mawile and talonflame EVs spread to the team, they fit better with the porpouse of the team.

You where very helpfull and I will try all that you said.I like especially the fact that you give me options to my team to change to TR with Dialga, Cress or Kang;the spreads for that strategy and new options to keep my team as I have it at the moment.
You helped me a lot so many thanks!

Glad you appreciated my rate, if you have any further questions feel free to ask
Btw its palkia not dialga just in case ;)