Flareon (QC 3/3)

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sirndpt

sirndpt

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not very sure if guts abuse deserves its own set, or only warrants an AC / extended OO mention. flareon's movepool really really sucks and that set can't even pretend to hide it lol, but it's nearly just good enough to do what it needs to, and this is the only tier flareon can even dream of running something like it X:

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<3> you gamefreak

[Overview]
  • red-headed stepchild etc etc

[SET]
name: Wish
move 1: Wish
move 2: Protect
move 3: Flamethrower / Lava Plume
move 4: Toxic / Roar
item: Leftovers
ability: Flash Fire
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
  • surprisingly decent special wall
  • wish+protect for toxic stalling
  • toxic lets you come up on top vs bulky waters and special walls
  • roar for subcm users
  • wish provides team healing too if you're really really desperate
  • lava plume burn can be handy, but can also burn someone you'd rather toxic eg. most bulky waters

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • max spdef to sponge scalds
  • roar / heal bell
  • guts is useless on a defensive / specially attacking set
  • physical attackers, especially water, rock, ground types
  • pair with physical wall, eg eviolite tangela, quagsire, alomomola
  • toxic spikes support eg roselia, scolipede
  • rapid spin support - wartortle appreciates Wish

[Other Options]
  • curse / work up / flame charge boosting sets
  • baton pass curse / work up / substitute but see: combusken
  • guts abuse but most of his good physical moves (iron tail, superpower) are illegal with guts
  • choice band
  • choice scarf set can make use of dry pass, but otherwise outclassed by emboar - flash fire much less useful in NU than in RU
  • choice specs but his special movepool consists of fire blast / overheat / flamethrower / lava plume / shadow ball / hidden power
  • may be useful to provide a list of its moves so you can despair get creative: fire fang, flame charge, bite, return, facade, flail, last resort, natural gift, iron tail, bite, dig, rock smash
  • yawn, will-o-wisp, toxic, confuse ray, charm, tickle, fake tears

[Checks and Counters]
  • (very) bulky waters eg Alomomola, Wartortle, Quagsire
  • rock-types eg Rhydon, Golem, defensive Armaldo
  • offensive sets can be revenge killed easily

[SET]
name: Guts
move 1: Fire Fang / Flame Charge
move 2: Facade
move 3: Protect..?
move 4: Quick Attack
item: Toxic Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • entei-lite?
  • packs the power of choice band with the ability to switch moves - difficult to wall
  • guts-boosted facade its strongest physical move, 2KOes bulky waters
  • flare blitz flare blitz flare blitz fire fang its strongest physical STAB, hits bulky grasses
  • flame charge boosts its meh speed
  • priority in quick attack useful as always, picks off weakened pokemon, says hi to kadabra, damages revenge killers
  • Protect to safely activate Guts

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • max atk, max spe
  • outspeeds uninvested base 95s like Leafeon, and other stuff like uninvested Klinklang and Mesprit
  • rock smash to 2ko Bastiodon, bite for... i'm not too sure what. a neutral facade hits harder than a supereffective bite
  • Superpower and Iron Tail are illegal with Guts - possible Flash Fire CB set
  • thunder wave support esp if not running flame charge eg. mesprit
  • entry hazard support, torterra shares good synergy, roselia/ scolipede are good spikers
  • rapid spin support eg wartortle
  • faster clean-uppers who appreciate bulky waters and walls removed eg DD Altaria, RP Rhydon, Floatzel
 
Standard spread on Evio Rhydon is (or should be) 252 HP / 252 Atk. A Guts set really isn't its best option but I think it's worth its own set. I haven't played with it much or anything so I'd rather hear what another QC member thinks, but otherwise this looks solid.

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I would probably slash Flame Charge somewhere in the Guts set which sucks cuz Flareon is terribly slow... but if not, then a mention in the AC should suffice.

Tbh I'm also slighty iffy about the guts set. I'll try it out after my LAST exam tomorrow and get back to you :)
 
Mention that hazard support is crucial to the Guts Abuse set as it warrants some OHKO like on Kadabra and Slowking if I'm not wrong. But that's my two-cents. Sorry if I didn't help. :/
 
thanks Zebraiken and Omi!

hmm, now that I think about it, Flame Charge might even deserve first slash over Fire Fang - neutral STAB Fire Fang is even weaker than neutral Facade, so it's really used more for coverage than spamming, when the power drop shouldn't matter too much. then again, I'll wait and see your verdict on the whole set.

@Charge I will, thanks for pointing that out! though Kadabra has Magic Guard :p
 
Charge said:
Mention that hazard support is crucial to the Guts Abuse set as it warrants some OHKO like on Kadabra and Slowking if I'm not wrong. But that's my two-cents. Sorry if I didn't help. :/
Click to expand...

Kadabra has Magic Guard so hazard support is pointless in that regard. Flame Charge is also definitely worth running on the Guts set.
 
Slash Roar next to Toxic on the Wish set. Too much SubCM etc.

Not too sure on the Guts set, looks pretty awful to be honest. Gonna wait for results on that before stamping this.
 
Yeah I'm reserving my stamp till we figure out if Guts is worth it, though I do think Flareon should have at least one "attacker" set up on site (since whenever I see Flareon its surprisingly an attacker and not that special defensive set which actually works).
 
... *facepalm* yes it is, GF really hates Flareon, does it >_>

Rock Smash and Bite are pretty much pointless seeing that Facade is 2x more powerful, and HP Grass doesn't even scratch Rhydon and Quagsire - so, Protect? D:
 
At this point I think it's fairly obvious that Guts Flareon is never really gonna be viable; the set is better off in OO.
 
Yeah...I don't really like the Guts set. If anything, just run Mixed (Flame Charge + Baton Pass? Oh wait Combusken) for the best offensive Flareon possible. At least Flareon can actually break walls and pass out of something it doesn't like as opposed to "sweeping". Being unable to actually KO Kadabra last-minute is sad.
 
Ice-eyes said:
At this point I think it's fairly obvious that Guts Flareon is never really gonna be viable; the set is better off in OO.
Click to expand...
point taken S: Ice-eyes, any other comments on the specially defensive set?

AccidentalGreed said:
Yeah...I don't really like the Guts set. If anything, just run Mixed (Flame Charge + Baton Pass?) for the best offensive Flareon possible. At least Flareon can actually break walls and pass out of something it doesn't like as opposed to "sweeping". Being unable to actually KO Kadabra last-minute is sad.
Click to expand...
I personally like the utility of priority Quick Attack, but true, can't deny that it's disappointingly weak. Baton Pass sounds like a good move to use there, but from my experience, with how hazards-vulnerable it is i'm not too sure if it can come in multiple times - it's more of a one-time use sweeper.
 
I think a mixed set with Superpower / Fire Blast / Hidden Power Grass??? / something else could work, but I'll see what other QC members say

edit: ok, that's that then. Poor Flareon...
 
Omicron said:
I think a mixed set with Superpower / Fire Blast / Hidden Power Grass??? / something else could work, but I'll see what other QC members say
Click to expand...

Nah, it doesn't work. Totally outclassed by Magmortar

I explained this to sirn originally when he (she?) started writing this, but the Scarf Mixed set (or any offensive Flareon set really) has absolutely no place in NU, despite being usable in RU. This is because NU lacks the large amounts of Fire-types that allow Flareon to be a valuable member to offensive teams in RU that need a switch-in to Typhlosion and stuff. Without those mons, offensive Flareon really has no place.
 
I remember seeing a warstory long ago using guts flareon in UU with some success. It's certainly a shame that flareon cannot get superpower along guts :/

Also, while the mixed set could work (as it did in advance), it's simply outclassed by both magmortar and emboar. Why gamefreak hates flareon so much?
 
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