ORAS NU Fletchinder + Jynx + Double Rocky Helmet HO

[Clefable]

Fletchinder + Jynx + Double Rocky Helmet​

INTRO

I'm new to NU, but I've used Fletchinder in UU and RU and seen how dangerous Fletchinder can be if it gets a boost. Given the Gallade-infested state of NU right now, I thought I'd give Fletchinder a shot. My gameplan with this team is to keep the initiative alive from turn 1, putting potential Rocks setters to sleep with Jynx and keeping up offensive pressure. I've always felt that on aggressive teams, the hazard setters should not be dead weight, so I stuck a Rocky Helmet on everything that's not supposed to smash things and never looked back. This team marks a divergence from my usual semistall habits, and although I've gone undefeated on ladder so far (10 games, ~1250), I still feel like I have no idea what the hell I'm doing a lot of the time, so this is where you guys can help me out.​

THE_TEAM

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ANALYSIS

Fletchinder @ [itemless] | Gale Wings
Brave Nature (+Atk / -Spe) | 252 Atk / 4 Def/ 252 SpA
• Acrobatics
• Overheat
• Swords Dance
• Roost

This guy's main purpose is to spam powerful priority, and Overheat bops Klinklang and Ferrothorn that think they can take you. Minus speed because Gale Wings gives priority, and Fletch isn't about to outspeed Ice Sharders anyway. To be honest, I'm not at all certain what NU Fletchinder's best set is.
If anyone has a better idea I'll take it, but the set has worked fine thus far for scaring Gallades and Hariyamas and Vileplumes. I know defensive WoW Fletch gives a lot of teams headaches, and I'd like opinions on whether or not I should try to fit that to my team.

Jynx @ Focus Sash | Dry Skin
Timid Nature (+Spe / -Atk) | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
• Lovely Kiss
• Nasty Plot
• Ice Beam
• Psyshock

At the risk of becoming even rocks weaker, we introduce Jynx, which plays a pretty unique role as a disruptive anti-lead and boosting sweeper with dangerous STABs that hit from both sides. Usually, unless the opponent has a Pokemon faster than it that could potentially lead, Jynx is going in first and sleeping something. I've had a remarkable amount of success keeping rocks off the field with Jynx, as most (if not all) of the standard rocks setters are either Lovely Kissed and neutered or outright forced out by Jynx. A surprising number of teams get destroyed by either Jynx or Fletch, so the rest of the team is devoted to mitigating the weaknesses they bring to the table.

Sandslash @ Rocky Helmet | Sand Rush
Adamant (+Atk / -SpA) | 172 HP / 252 Atk/ 84 Spe
• Rapid Spin
• Stealth Rock
• Earthquake
• Knock Off

The main weakness with my team up to this point is definitely rocks, so here's the best spinner the tier has to offer with useful chip damage off of Rocky Helmet. Slash also has cool type synergy with my team so far, since Jynx is immune to water and Bird to grass (essentially), while Sandslash eats Rock and Electric attacks for them. I wasn't running speed, and the EVs are directly copied from someone else's RMT so I don't know exactly what I'm trying to creep (uninvested base 80s?). This set is pretty standard, but given that I also have a weird Rocky Helmet Garbodor set, I'd be willing to try out different movesets/items on either of these guys. In general though I'm of the opinion that offensive Slash is the only viable option on a team that needs to keep momentum.

Hariyama @ Assault Vest | Guts
Adamant (+Atk / -SpA) | 252 Atk / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
• Power-Up Punch
• Close Combat
• Knock Off
• Bullet Punch

Guts AV Hariyama is amazing. Since Sandslash can take a hit on the physical side, I wanted a partner that can sponge special attacks. Max SpD since Hariyama's HP stat is ridiculous already, and with the given spread Hariyama is 3HKOd by Xatu's Psychic. Power-Up Punch, while gimmicky, allows Hariyama to act as another kind of set up sweeper, since a lot of switchins don't want to take a +1 CC, and Guts + Knock Off lets Yama take on every ghost in the tier. I think the slight element of surprise over the more standard Fake Out + Thick Fat set makes this set really effective.

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet | Weak Armor
Impish Nature (+Def / -SpA) | 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
• Spikes
• Toxic Spikes
• Gunk Shot
• Explosion

I now felt that Sandslash was a bit squishy for my only reliably physically defensive wall, and I've run double Rocky Helmet defensive cores in the past and loved the chip damage. Now that everything in NU is knock offing/close combatting/zen headbutting everything else, Garb and Slash together can take a large chunk out of attackers simply from existing. I chose Weak Armor + Explosion over the standard Aftermath + Drain Punch set so that Garbodor could play a role as something that can come in, lay some hazards, then explode and bring in a fragile attacker safely, since Fletch and Jynx have a hard time switching in in general. Explosion also prevents Rapid Spin/Defog (are there even any defoggers in the tier?). I'm thinking about trying a more offensive variant though with attack investment and an attacking move over Toxic Spikes. I'm up to try different spreads too, as this was one that was recommended for Aftermath.

Rotom @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
Timid (+Spe / -Atk) | 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
• Volt Switch
• Thunderbolt
• Shadow Ball
• Will-O-Wisp
I like to round off my teams with a pivot with useful immunities. Scarf Rotom fits the bill, outspeeding things and volt switching from things that can't touch it. Will-O-Wisp is mostly filler, and I'm considering HP Grass to nab Quagsire, which nothing else on my team except Jynx can threaten. This also beats Klinklang, which can set up on and threaten a lot of my team. Along with Fletchinder, this guy cleans up pretty effectively, although he hits too weakly to really threaten much that's at full health.​

THREATS

I built this team with the idea of neutralizing Gallade and Sneasel in mind, and they get worn down by Rocky Helmet damage and/or are picked off by Fletch/Rotom. However, as I mentioned, Quagsire walls my team outside of Jynx and can wear things down. I have no phasing, so something like Sleep Talk Megadino could wreck me, although I haven't faced it. In general, bulkyish teams that can get and keep rocks up give me trouble, but in practice I've found that leading with Jynx helps keep rocks off in most games, at least until later in the game where the other team is worn down.​

IMPORTABLE

Not sure how to do hide tags :( If someone tells me I can paste the team here.

Shoutout to trinitrotoluene for the badass RMT template.

Thanks guys, and tell me what you think!​

 

[TTFTW]

If you think quagsire is a threat you can always replace explosion with seed bomb on garbodor. And even though I like your weak armor strategy, aftermath is better on garb since it helps you a lot against klinklang.

With this change you can replace will-o-wisp on rotom with trick to shut down common switch-ins such as rhydon, and a choice locked rhydon is honestly less threatening than a burned one, mainly because it loses a lot of bulk and you can scout what move it wants to lock itself into by going out to sandslash.

Fletchinder is a good check to crodino because it resists dazzling gleam and can also set up on it while it's asleep so I don't see why it's so threatening.

Cool team, I love overheat fletch

 

[Clefable]

Thanks for the rate!

I considered Seed Bomb on Garbodor, but 0 Atk Seed Bomb against 252+ Def Quagsire fails to do half, so I'd need to invest in attack if I wanted to check Quag in that way. I was probably going to replace TSpikes before I replace Explosion and switch to a more offensive spread. I think Weak Armor is what makes Explosion viable, so as long as I keep Explosion I'll keep WA too. Nevertheless, I think I'll test out a variety of spreads and movesets, because you make some good points. Also, Rotom handles Klinklang pretty nicely, so I don't think I need to worry too much about it.

I prefer to keep my scarf on Rotom because its speed is pretty underwhelming without it, and I think I'd prefer a burned Don since I can go to Slash and wall it anyway while getting rocks up. Trick is just too situational and prediction-heavy for my taste, and I don't really see what it would cripple that I care about checking. HP Grass two-shots both Quag and Rhydon.

Yeah, you're right, Fletch does beat Crodino. I mostly put it there because I'm not really sure where my team struggles. I think perhaps a well-played Pawniard looks like it could give me hell, and Lanturn Volt-Turns around my team. Am I overlooking any glaring flaws?

 

[HJAD]

Hey bro,

Nice team you have here. I really like the support you give fletchinder, it gives it so many options when you have it in your team for weakening your opponents checks / counters to it. Onto the team, and i feel like although you mention CroDino as a threat to your team, i think that it isnt so much one. You have Power Up Punch Hariyama, Nasty Plot Jynx, Swords Dance Roost Fletchinder, AND a more natural check in the Physical Poison Garbodor to all check it to some degree. However, yes, Quagsire is a problem, since nothing really likes to switch into its stabs, your main way of dealing with it is Lovely Kiss Jynx, which, as you can imagine, doesnt appreciate being switched into a possible eq. Also, something that worries me is your lack of switchin for a icicle crash from Sneasel. If it comes in on, for example, Sandslash and gets a free sd or oppurtuinity to Icicle Crash, it will be doing a huge number to your team since your checks to it are frail. Calm Mind Psychics are unresisted by your team, and threaten to sweep once Jynx is out of the way, due to lack of trick on Rotom. Your only way of beating them is to hope for a crit on them with Rotom. Archeops is also a handful, since your only check to it, Rotom, does not appreciate an Acrobatics, and everything else either dies to Acro or cant hit it back.

In order to deal with Quagsire, i would like for you to change your current Garbodor set to Offensive > your Defensive set. Offensive Garbodor is really underated in this meta, since it has the capability to beat Xatu, one of the main ways to control hazards, 1 on 1. It also performs the same utility as it does before, by racking up all that recoil from physical hits thanks to rocky helmet + aftermath, however, its not fodder to ground types like it used to be, or heck, even psychic types like Mesprit, Musharna and Uxie dont enjoy coming in on a 252 Atk Gunk Shot of Garbodor. You will also run Seed Bomb > Explosion and Drain Punch > Spike. The reason we pick seed bomb is to lure in and take out Quagsire, by easily 2hko'ing it on the switch, if it doesnt want to come in, you can lay down a few layers of toxic spikes, so even if it walls you, its on a timer, so it wont wall you forever. Drain Punch is coverage so that the likes of Klinklang, hoping you are fodder for them get hit by huge damage. Its also a useful form of recovery on bulky rock type switchins. Aftermath > Weak Armor is obligatory, especially for your #1 fighting switch in.
Secondly, i suggest running Thick Fat > Guts on Hariyama. Yes, i know this must be a difficult decision because im sure many people have burned this only for you to bop them with high powered cc's. But fact of the matter is you have no switchin for icicle crash on sneasel, and it will come to bite you when you have to sack something every time it comes in. This switch is more imperative since sneasel is now on every other team, whereas quagsire isnt.
We also mentioned you weakness to Calm Mind Psychics. The quickest and easiest way i see of alleviating this problem is by swapping giving Rotom Trick > Will-O-Wisp. All it means is that a mon like Calm Mind Uxie, cant substitute and sweep your team. You can trick it a choice scarf so its fodder for something or other on your team.
Lastly, we mentioned that Archeops is a problem for this team. As a result, i will suggest changing your Sandslash spread to 252 HP / 120 Atk / 136 Def Impish Nature > Current Spread. What this spread allows you to do is not be 2hkoed by Archeops Acrobatics, and knock it into defeatist range with Knock Off after the Rocky Helmet Recoil. If the Archeops attempts to roost, you can just EQ it, since Roost removes the flying type, meaning EQ is no longer immune, and instead a 2x Weakness. As a result, EQ is a guranteed KO if your predict correctly.

Finally, something that bothers me is your Fletchinder spread. - Spe on Fletchinder isnt really the way to do it, since, every other fletchinder will be running speed investment, any more priorty moves from more targets will be able to outspeed your Fletchinders Acrobatics. See Cacturne, Fast Golems, stuff like that that hold a semi-slow sucker punch, will now be able to hit Fletch before you can revenge kill them with Acrobatics. As a result, i suggest changing fletch's spread to a far more efficient 252 Atk / 112 SpA / 144 Spe Naughty Nature > Current Spread. Overall, this spread is more efficient as it allows you to outspeed jolly base 55's (see Cacturne and Golem~especially if custap set, oml) And OHKO / do relevant damage to the likes of Klinklang or Mawile that try to check you.

sets

Garbodor @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Aftermath
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Drain Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Toxic Spikes

~Thick Fat on Hariyama
~Trick on Rotom
~Defensive Sandslash
~Speed Investment on Fletchinder

Good luck with your team, it looks really cool and i hope you can continue your streak :]
yours in mons,
~HJAD

 

[Clefable]

Thank you for the detailed rate! I really appreciate it. I'll try out all of your suggestions. One thing I'm slightly worried about for the Sandslash set is no longer getting the OHKO on spinblockers like Rotom. Also, would you suggest running any speed on Slash?

 

[HJAD]

Thank you for the detailed rate! I really appreciate it. I'll try out all of your suggestions. One thing I'm slightly worried about for the Sandslash set is no longer getting the OHKO on spinblockers like Rotom. Also, would you suggest running any speed on Slash?

The only speed that's worth investing in is either 56 or 96 EVs. 56 let's you hit 180 Spe, which is a benchmark for neutral 252 EV base 40s such as Rhydon. I didn't want to invest that much in speed since it would kinda take away from the power of Slash even more.

I wouldn't worry too much about spinblockers like rotom and Mismagius. They are virtually non existent thanks to Sneasel, and you have a solid check to both in Hariyama. Sure, they are annoying, but you weren't gonna ohko them with Knock Off anyway.

I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have n_n

 

[Clefable]

The only speed that's worth investing in is either 56 or 96 EVs. 56 let's you hit 180 Spe, which is a benchmark for neutral 252 EV base 40s such as Rhydon. I didn't want to invest that much in speed since it would kinda take away from the power of Slash even more.

I wouldn't worry too much about spinblockers like rotom and Mismagius. They are virtually non existent thanks to Sneasel, and you have a solid check to both in Hariyama. Sure, they are annoying, but you weren't gonna ohko them with Knock Off anyway.

I'm happy to answer any other questions you may have n_n

Hey,

I implemented all the changes you said, and for the most part they work great (streak still unbroken!). Thick Fat on Yama especially is really nice for switching into Sneasel. Two things though.

First is I'm not sure why I'm running so much speed on Garb. The lack of bulk is really noticeable, for example I'm now 2HKOed by Kabutops's Waterfall, so I can't switch in easily on the predicted Rapid Spin, and I'm OHKOed by random EQuakes on fighting types. I was thinking of running a bulkier set; I think I saw on here sweetjesus's spread of Adamant 252 HP / 144 Atk and the rest in either Def or Spe with the same moveset. I think the added bulk would really help, unless there's a particular reason why Jolly Max Speed is desirable (75 is not a really great speed tier either.)

The second is that now that I'm not running Max SpA on Fletch, Overheat no longer nets the OHKO on things like Klinklang, so I was thinking of running Fire Blast for more consistency. Lemme know what you think.

Thanks!

 

[HJAD]

Generally, with an offensive Garbodor, its not going to be as bulky as you would think before, instead, you use more as a pivot switch than a defensive one.
If you want, I can possibly make a custom EV Spread for you, so that you can 2HKO / OHKO the relevant things, outspeed relevant mons and live neccesary hits. I do agree, Max Spe is a tad wasteful

I wouldn't worry too much about Klinklang, you do so much damage to it with Overheat that takes it to the point where its basically worthless.
112 SpA Fletchinder Overheat vs. 92 HP / 0 SpD Klinklang: 240-284 (84.5 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
The following acrobatics takes it out for sure.

 

[Clefable]

A custom spread could be super helpful. Right now I'm running 252 HP/152+ Atk/104 Spe to outpace max base 55s (Golurk, etc), and it seems more solid, but I agree the more aggressive we can get the better. Things I'd like to live are mostly coverage options: Earthquake from Pinsir/Tauros/Sawk Earthquake, Kanga's Fake Out + EQ, while still 2HKOing Quag. Not sure what else is relevant.

 

[HJAD]

After my calcs, the most efficient spread for what you require is;
144 HP / 120 Atk / 244 Spe Jolly Nature

120 Atk allows you to 2hko Xatu with Gunk Shot + Poison Damage, 2hko Quagsire with Seed Bomb, and 2hko Klinklang with Drain Punch.

244 Spe + Jolly Nature allows you to outspeed Adamant Sawk and Xatu that try try to Creep Adamant Sawk. That's all Adamant Base 85s, so, if you know for certain a Gallade is Adamant, you could technically outspeed it and do massive damage.

Rest goes into HP to help Garbodor survive. It still gets 2HKO'd by Kabutops, can't help that, but it can live Adamant Scarf Sawks EQ (all varients die to banded, no matter the investment) and it can survive an Earthquake from LO Tauros.