Introduction
Hi, I'm Tyrogue and this will be my last RMT for the 4th generation since nobody really plays this generation anymore and at the end I want to reveal my favorite team, which I built a year ago, some months after I started playing Pokemon competitively, around the time when Latias and Salamence were still in the Overused tier.I still use this team sometimes on Shoddy, where Latias / Salamence are still OU and in some Funtourneys, so please do note that I don't search for replacements for Latias and Salamence.
The idea of the whole team is quite simple, setting up Toxic Spikes for the sweep of a Subsitute Calm Mind Latias, which is kinda surprising most of the time, while Mix Mence opens holes for the sweep of Latias. The team was my most successful team for the era of Latias and Salamence and until now, it has been my favorite team which I built for Gen 4.
Also, credits to vashta for the layout of the Rate My Team and now lets take a look at the team...
Hi, I'm Tyrogue and this will be my last RMT for the 4th generation since nobody really plays this generation anymore and at the end I want to reveal my favorite team, which I built a year ago, some months after I started playing Pokemon competitively, around the time when Latias and Salamence were still in the Overused tier.I still use this team sometimes on Shoddy, where Latias / Salamence are still OU and in some Funtourneys, so please do note that I don't search for replacements for Latias and Salamence.
The idea of the whole team is quite simple, setting up Toxic Spikes for the sweep of a Subsitute Calm Mind Latias, which is kinda surprising most of the time, while Mix Mence opens holes for the sweep of Latias. The team was my most successful team for the era of Latias and Salamence and until now, it has been my favorite team which I built for Gen 4.
Also, credits to vashta for the layout of the Rate My Team and now lets take a look at the team...
Teambuilding
The team's core should be Latias, or more exactly a Subsitute + Calm Mind Latiasset, since Subsitute saved me from Pursuit, which was quite useful against the common Switch-Ins like Tyranitar or Scizor. Latias also was a great check against things like Infernape, random Bulkywaters and it was the seriously the stabilizer of the whole team.
After the core was picked I started thinking of the other teammates and it was clear that I would need Toxic Spikes for hitting foes like Blissey or Tyranitar.Also teams like 'Rose Tyler' by vashta showed the success of a Calm Mind user with Subsitute in combination with Toxic Spikes. At the end I chose Forretress for this position since it provided Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock support and made a quite reliable lead.
After picking Forretress I knew i needed a Spin Blocker as every team which had hazards. In my eyes there were only two possibilities for this position, the obvious Rotom-A or Gengar, which could benefit from the hazards but was to frail to block Rapid Spins the whole battle and so I opted for Rotom, which gave me a Spin Blocker and a solid check to Scizor, Metagross, Gyarados etc.
Also, Rotom fits perfectly the balanced playstyle of this team.
Now, I had the core plus the two main support players and I started thinking of the top threats in the OU Metagame which I would have to check if this team should become successful. There were of course the possibilities to equip Rotom or Latias with a Chice Scarf, but Latias should be the core and I didn't want to scarf Rotom because a scarfed Rotom was easily picked off by Tyranitar or Scizor and then, Rapid Spin users like Starmie or Forretress would not have to care about Rotom.
Finally I decided to use Choice Scarf Jirachi, which made a pretty good revengekiller, gave me a second Dragonresist, which was very important and it gave the team more solidity.
Choice Scarf Jirachi couldn't eliminate all threats to the team of course, things like Sword Dance Lucario or well played Stallteams were still very hard to take down and so the big bad Mixed Salamence entered the team, which gave me a solid check to Lucario with Intimidate, and Stallteams, because it could easily rip through this teams with Brick Break / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast and Roost.
The team was very solid at that point and for the last slot I wanted a bulky watertype, which could take on things like Salamnce / Infernape or Heatran etc. and could spread Poison from the Toxic Spikes through shuffling with a phazing move. My choice was Suicune, because it gave me a solid check to the Pokemon named above and equiped with Roar, Rest and its fantastic bulk it could easily roar through the opponent's teams and take hits with ease.
And this is, how the team looked for the rest of Latias and Salamence era in the OU Metagame. It has always been my favorite team for that stage of the Metagame and it really was perfect for my playstyle, Balanced.
Sometimes I changed Suicune to a Vapoeron for Wishsupport but in my opinion Suicune is the better choice here.
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Through the Microscope
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Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP | 4 Def | 252 SDef
Careful Nature [+SDef, -SAtk]
- - Payback
- - Rapid Spin
- - Toxic Spikes
- - Stealth Rock
Set Analysis:
Special defensive Forretress has always been one of my favorite leads and this for many reasons, because it can easily set up on a bunch of the common OU leads and can check the comon Subsitute + Pain Split Gengar due to it's tremendous bulk. Forretress was also chosen as the lead, since it is the ony Pokemon in OU which has access to Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes, which is quite important, because Latias definitly need them beofre she can start sweeping the opposing team. Forretress is also a very solid Rapid Spinner, which is important for the team due to the fact the Salamence is weak to Stealth Rock and im kinda weak to Spikes in general, Payback is avery nice addition on Forretress, since Payback allows me to hit the common Starmieleads and Spin Blockers like Gengar or Rotom, which want to prevent me from spinning and then get hit by Payback which deals quite a lot to the offensive sets.
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EVs & Nature:
This is the simple EV Split for a special defensive Forretress, maximizing the HP and maximizing the SDef for special bulk which is needed against Sub Split Gengar or Starmie, last point is thrown into Defense and not into Speed since I want to get a slower Rapid Spin against other Forretress. I actually thought of using more Def EVs for things like Metagrossleads but I'm quite satisfied with the split since I can get my hazards out against some Bulkywaters like Vapoeron easier.
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Other Options
I used to run Skarmory instead of Forretress in some battles but the loss of Toxic Spikes was horrible for Latias and so Forretress was the prefered choice here. Roserade was also tested as a lead, but the lack of a second Steeltype gave me serious problems.
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Lead Comparison
This is how Forretress fairs against the top ten common leads ; blue indicates little trouble caused, orange indicates that there is a bit of switching to do, and red is problematic:
- Metagross: Pretty simple lead to handle, since it can't really do damage to me, I will get out my Stealth Rock and one layer of Toxic Spikes, in the case that Metagross stays in the first turn.
- Azelf: Very annoying for me, since it can easily Fire Blast my Forretess to death, so I go to Suicune, use Surf and then predict the Boom and go to Rotom to absorb it.
- Jirachi: Not a big problem, I will get out my Stealth Rock since Fire Punch doesn't really hurt me I don't really care about beeing tricked.
- Swampert: Since nobody runs Hydropump on Swampertleads, it is Fodder for my Forretress here, at least I got my Stealth Rock up and in sme cases I'm able to lay down one layer of Toxic Spikes.
- Aerodactyl: Payback first turn to break the Focus Sash, because Aerodactyl will usually use Taunt. Then I can go to Jirachi and pick it off with an Iron Head, Forretress can spin their Stealth Rock away later in the battle.
- Infernape: Switch to Suicune on the Fake Out / Fire Blast and Surf it to death since Suicune doesn't care about taking a Close Combat from an Infernape without Life Orb.
- Hippowdon: Like Swampert, because it can't really touch or hit me hard, so I will get out my Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes in some cases.
- Heatran: Worst lead to face for the team, because it can easily take out Forretress, so I usually switch to Suicune, although a Specs Overheat deals 41.1% - 48.5% to Suicune, so it is quite annoying :[
- Machamp: Thankfully, his useage decreases, but its hard to handle due to Dynamic Punch confusion. I wil usually go to Rotom to absorb the Dyniamic and then to Salamence to Draco Meteor it or to Jirachi to flinch it to death, on the Paback.
- Roserade: Go to Suicune to take the Sleep Powder or the Hidden Power [Fire] and then to Jirachi to flinch it. Toxic Spikes are spinned away later by Forretress if Roserade decides to lay down some.
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Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP | 252 Spd | 4 SAtk
Timid nature [+Spd, -Atk]
- - Dragon Pulse
- - Calm Mind
- - Recover
- - Substitute
Set Analysis:
Latias is the main sweeper and it is seriously one of the best cleaners I've used so far in the 4th Generation due to its unbelievable bulk which allows me to set up on a bunch of Pokemon like Vapoeron without Roar (Toxic doesn't hurt me because of Subsitute), other bulkywaters or Rest + Sleep Talk Rotom. Latias is also a very save answer to threats like Infernape, Zapdos, Jolteon or bulky Watertypes. Monoattacking Latias lacks the way of hitting Steelteypes which is sometimes a real problem but after a few boosts Dragon Pulse will deal significant damage, even to those Steeltypes. Recover is the obvious recoverymove for every bulky Latiasset, which is needed in every case, because Latias has to check a bunch of Pokemon.
Subsitute is definitly the clue of this set, since this move allows me to win against Toxic Vapoeron or other moves like Thunderwave, which could destroy the Latias sweep. Also, Subsitute saves me from Pursuit, which comes to handy against Tyranitar and Scizor with Pursuit, probably the most common Switch-Ins to Latias. Subsitute is also a great move in combination with Toxic Spikes, since I can increase the Poisondamage, while foes foes like try to break the sub and are forced to switch out after a few turns. I already thought of using Roar instead of Subsitute but I hate beeing killed by Pursuit early in the game, although Roar makes foes like Calm Mind Suicune and other Calm Mind users like Jirachi easier to handle and I can increase the damage that is dealed to the foe's team by Toxic Spikes.
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EVs & Nature:
Simple EV Split for the defensive versions of the Calm Mind sets, maximum HP for the highest possible bulk, maximum speed for outspeeding Infernape with a base of 108 and to get a tie against other Pokemon with 110 base speed like Gengar or other Latias.
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Other Options
As I said before Roar is definitly an option over Subsitute for dealing more hazarddamage and for other Calm Mind users. I also considered Refresh to break stall and get rid of statusmoves and the obvious Hidden Power [Fire] / Surf for Steeltypes or Heatran.
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Rotom-h @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP | 248 Def | 8 Spd
Bold nature [+Def, -Atk]
- - Thunderbolt
- - Will-O-Wisp
- - Shadow Ball
- - Pain Split
Set Analysis:
Rotom-h acts as the Rapid Spin Blocker of the team, because I don't want to loose my Toxic Spikes, it works quite well due to it's physical bulk and the fact that it can beat easily every common in the OU Metagame, thanks to Will-O-Wisp (Forretress) and Thunderbolt (Starmie, Tentacruel etc.). Pain Split is for recovery, although I already thought of using Rest + Sleep Talk because I can take status easier which is helpful agaist things like Breloom. Thunderbolt hits foes like Gyarados, Kingdra etc. and provides a Stab move, Shadow Ball hits Calm Mind if it tries to set up on Rotom and other Rotom formes. Will-O-Wisp is just for hitting Tyranitar (if Toxic Spikes are not up yet) and Scizor, which can be a threat for the team, so it's important that Rotom is healthy and can take on it.
Rotom further acts as a reliable check to things like Dragon Dance Gyarados, Metagross, Scizor or physical based Jirachi - just to name a few. I just have to be aware of the combination of Scarf Tyranitar + Sword Dance Scizor, which can easily destroy the team.
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EVs & Nature:
Simple split here again for a dfensive Rotom, 252 HP EVs in combination with 248 Def EVs give me nice physical bulk which is necessary against the things, that Rotom has to check. 8 Speed EVs are for oustpeeding the other bulky Rotoms, which normally carry 4 Speed EVs.
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Other Options
A set consisting of Thunderbolt / Will-O-Wisp / Rest / Sleep Talk would be possible, allowing to check Breloom better and taking status easier. Reflect is also an option to beat things like Machampleads easier, which would be quite helpful.
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Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 4 HP | 252 Atk | 252 Spd
Jolly nature [+Spd, -SAtk]
- - Ice Punch
- - Iron Head
- - Trick
- - Fire Punch
Set Analysis:
Jirachi is definitly the clue of the team since it keeps nearly every set upper in check like Dragon Dance Tyranitar, Sword Dance Lucario / Scizor or Salamence (have to be aware here, since I just get a tie after it used Dragon Dance) - just some examples. Trick ist in my opinion the best move on Choice Scarf Jirachi, since I can trick Blissey on a stallteam, which opens the way for a Latias sweep. Trick is also pretty useful against las Pokemon Curse Snorlax or Crocune, who could otherwise cause serious problems to the team. Iron Head provides Stab and picks off things like Dragon Dance Tyranitar or Calm Mind Latias. Ice Punch hits Salamence for very high damage, which is very important, because Salamence is a bitch to face, while Fire Punch takes care of Sword Dance Lucario, in the case that my own Salamence has been weakend, and keeps Scizor in check.
Jirachi is also a nice Switch-In for things like Specs Draco Meteors from Latias and it has awesome synergy with Latias and Salamence, so it can easily come in an Ice- or Dragonmove aimed at them, while Latias and Salamence can absorb random Fire Blasts and Earthquakes that are thrown at Jirachi.
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EVs & Nature:
Simple and basic split, which requires no explanation, just maximize speed and attack to tie with every Choice Scarf user with a base of 100 and hitting everything as hard as possible.
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Other Options
Maybe U-Turn instead of Fire Punch for scouting the opponents team but Fire Punch is definitly needed on Jirachi, so I'm not really sure about that.
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Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 16 Atk | 252 Spd | 240 SAtk
Naive nature [+Spd, -SDef]
- - Brick Break
- - Draco Meteor
- - Fire Blast
- - Roost
Set Analysis:
Mixed Mence is seriously one of the dangeroust Pokemon in the Metagame and that for many reasons, for example it can easily rip through stall based teams on its own without needing support from the other teammembers. I used to run a bulky Dragon Dance Salamence here but I had really big problems with stall and so I had to change the set to the mixed set although I think that bulky Dragon Dance Salamence is the best Salamence set! After the change stall wasn't a big threat anyore and due to Roost and Salamence's bulk + Intimidate it is possible to check Lucario like the set before did.
Draco Meteor is seriously the best move on Mixed Mence, because it hits everything neutral except for Steelteypes, but even Steeltypes, the only resistance to Draco Meteor, take lots of damage from it. Fire Blast hits the obvious Steeltypes like Skarmory, Forretress or Bronzong and paired with Life Orb and Salamence's special attack, it can ohko even special defensive Skarmory after Stealth Rock damage. Brick Break allows me to hit 252 HP | 252 Def, Bold Blissey for a 2hko, Tyranitar and Lucario are both ohkod after Stealth Rock damage (I usually don't use Fire Blast against Lucario because of it's accurcay). Roost gives me recovery, which is important for Salamence because it takes 25 % from Stealth Rock everytime it comes in plus recoil damage through Life Orb and damage from sandstorm, Outrage is of course an option for the last slot but I feel that I really need the recovery and beeing locked into Outrage sucks, too.
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EVs & Nature:
Salamence's speed is pushed to the maximum to tie against other Pokemon with a speed base of 100, like other Salamence, non-scarfed Jirachi or Celebi. 240 SAtk EVs are necessary for some important ohkos after Stealth Rock, for example against Skarmory etc ; Draco Meteor's power is also boosted, which is quite awesome if you look at the damage that is dealed by that move. The remaining Evs were put into Atk to insure an ohko on Tyranitar after Stealth Rock and 2hkos on Blissey and Heatran.
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Other Options
Nothing this time ^_^
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Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP | 236 Def | 20 Spd
Bold nature [+Def, -Atk]
- - Surf
- - Roar
- - Rest
- - Ice Beam
Set Analysis:
Suicune is probably the best bulkywater in the game, due to its high defense bases and the ability to stop things like Dragon Dance Salamence. This is the point why Suicune entered the team, it can easily survive a +1 Outrage from an adamant Salamence with Life Orb even after Stealth Rock and take it out with Ice Beam, which is really important since Dragon Dance Salamence is actually a very big threat for the team. Suicune is also a decent check to Pokemon like Heatran, Infernape, (have to watch out for Grass Knot), physical Jirachi or Gyarados without Taunt.
Surf hits things like Life Orb Heatran or Infernape, which could otherwise be problematic, due to the fact that nothing on my team loves to a Life Orb Fire Blast or something in that direction. Ice Beam picks off Salamence, other dragons and prevnts Calm Mind from set upping on Suicune. Rest is for the important recovery, that Suicune really needs, because it has to check a lot of Pokemon and i can't risk lossing it to early. Roar is the best move on this set i my opinoin, since this move allows me to destroy Baton Pass (lol), phaze out annoying Pokemon and deal mote damage through hazards.
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EVs & Nature:
20 points in speed allows me to outspeed defensive Rotom, rest is just put in HP and defense to have nice physical bulk against foes like Tyranitar or Salamence.
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Other Options
Vapoeron is an option over Suicune, but due to the fact that 4 of 6 Pokemon have recovery, Wish isn't needed nad Vapoeron doesn't have the bulk like Suicune, so Suicune the better option here I think.
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Conclusion and Threat List
Yeah, that was the RMT, this will be my last RMT of a Gen 4 team since now I'm done with this generation and will playing Gen 5 more :)
Threatlist will be edited later, when I have more time...
