Metagame Foresighters

:Serperior:-:Rillaboom:-:Hawlucha:-:Great_Tusk:-:Roaring_Moon:-:Heatran:

Not sure if this counts as peaking #1 or #2, but I've had a lot of fun figuring out this metagame.

Endeavor obviously wasn't going to be around forever, but for most of my climb I didn't rely on it all that much (I didn't know :rillaboom: or :great_tusk: even learned it for a while).

As you might've noticed: Most OU viable teams are also viable here with only slight bits of moveset tweaking to accommodate for the unbanned ubers and the moveslots that feel limited to 3 moves at times.
 

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I just wanted to ask a few questions for clarification, but it would be nice if you answered them!

1. While Skill Swap doesn't work for obvious reasons, wouldn't Doodle work instead? If I remember correctly, Doodle changes the abilities of both the user and its active ally. Would the Pokémon currently out count as an ally?

2. What would happen if you tried to pass a two-turn move, especially one with a semi-invulnerable state, like Dive or Fly?

3. What does Metronome do here? Does a move get called by Metronome immediately and then used as if it were the first-slot move? Does a move not get called for two turns? If so, does that move have to wait ANOTHER two turns???
 
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Actually, you don't need to answer. I already discovered these answers on my own.
Additionally, I found a glitch:
If the move being foreseen is going to miss, the move your Pokémon uses on the turn it hits will be GLITCHED and show a missing animation. I found this out because I used Fly and switched to another Pokémon, but when I used Dragon Tail, it visually conveyed that Dragon Tail missed, when it still hit. However, when Fly hit the opponent that turn, it missed.
This glitch might actually originate with Future Sight and Doom Desire in regular formats, and it may affect all turns elapsed with the missing Future Sight or Doom Desire, and not just the turn it hits.

Well, with all of that covered, here's what I found:

1. Two-turn moves use both turns immediately, with the damage being dealt two turns later.

2. Metronome counts as a self-targeted move, but it doesn't reveal/choose the random move executed until two turns later, at the same time it uses that move.

Currently I'm testing Double Shock, Revival Blessing, Doodle, Crush Grip, and Roar.
 
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Everything I mentioned has now been tested, with..... strange results.

1. Roar works exactly how you would expect. It starts with -6 priority, and triggers two turns later.
2. Doodle, when it triggers, only activates between the two currently-active Pokémon. Grafaiai does not get the ability change.
3. Crush Grip, along with similar moves like Heavy Slam and Electro Ball, calculate for the two currently-active Pokémon.
4. Double Shock definitely had the second-weirdest results. When it triggers, regardless of the two Pokémon currently-active, it hits and takes away Pawmot's Electric typing while it's switched-out. The type change effect will appear. However, upon switching in, it will not show Pawmot as having the typing change, despite having a typing change. (Earth Power was neutrally effective, and a second attempt at Double Shock failed. Switching out again will successfully reset Pawmot's typing.)
5. Revival Blessing had BY FAR the strangest results. If you stay in for the turns that Revival Blessing takes to activate, it fails because "the target is the user". However, if you switch out, there's no failure message. Instead, when you switch back to the Pokémon that used the move, it makes you switch again for some reason?? (like if you used a switching move) Either way, Revival Blessing is a complete disaster.

It was fun testing these though, as the ladder is actually quite agreeable. Can't wait to see what cool ideas come out of this in the future!
 
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9foresighters-2075982372
Further reports on unique interactions coming in.....

1. Protection moves do nothing, which is sad because I was hoping it would count as like a second protection and have the 1/3 chance of working. Aw man, boring.
2. Revelation Dance does NOT change types to match the Pokémon currently out. Again, boring.
3. Copycat, as expected, does not copy foreseen triggers and will treat foreseen moves just used as regular moves. Why was this match so BORING
4. Stealth Rock is.... weird. I know, how crazy. When you use it, it actually foresees the moves regardless of whether there are already rocks. Even weirder, regardless of whether the Stealth Rock works or not, when it hits, between the "Freed" message and the message telling you whether or not the rocks worked, it gives you THIS weird message:
The pointed stones disappeared from around [TEAM]!​
Yeah, that happens regardless of if there are rocks or not.
5. Moves that last for 2-3 turns like Outrage and Thrash actually work opposite from two-turn moves. I didn't get to test it in this match, but I saw it in another match: the Pokémon using the move isn't trapped, but the Pokémon receiving the move gets trapped in it for 2-3 turns. Pretty basic stuff.
6. Dance moves like Fiery Dance and Feather Dance do not trigger the Dancer ability for allies. I know I sound like a broken record, but boring.

Not a very fruitful search, but as you could probably tell from the team I brought to this match, I have some more to test. These include things like Sleep Talk, Sleep Talk into a foreseen move, Psych Up, and a few more. I'll get back to you all then; have a good day!
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9foresighters-2075998981
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9foresighters-2076013082
Breaking news! I found another visual bug! (See discovery #3)
In other news, here's what I found with Sleep Talk and Rest:

1. Sleep Talk, upon calling a foreseen move, does nothing buggy or janky. The move is used as if you used it directly, and will hit 2 turns later.

2. Rest starts whether or not the user is at full health. Whether it actually triggers depends on the health of the Pokémon that used it, but the Pokémon healed is the one currently out. That's so janky that I love it

3. There's actually a second, weirder effect of Rest. If the Rest user's HP is full when it switches out, then when the Rest triggers, and the message appears saying the user's HP is full, the Rest user's sprite will actually APPEAR beneath your current Pokémon's sprite! This is somehow tied to the "HP is full" message too, as when you skip it in the replay or the battle, the bug doesn't occur. Once it's there, the double Pokémon bug persists until switching out. (Or until you use the replay options, in the case of the replay) (Also, the visual glitch occurs regardless of what side you're on)

4. Rest fails completely if your current Pokémon is Komala, in case anyone was wondering.

5. Sleep Talk behaves as expected when used as a foreseen move. After 2 turns, if your current Pokémon is asleep, it picks a random viable move.

6. I didn't mention it last time, but when Copycat copies a move that your Pokémon has, apparently it counts as using that move slot, rather than the slot Copycat is in. When I used Copycat on Clefable with Stealth Rock in the first slot after Deoxys used Stealth Rock, it failed because it counted as a foreseen move.

And that's it for today! I'll be back tomorrow for more research. See you all then!
 
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9foresighters-2076285933
I have some time before school, so I decided to test some more moves!

1. Beak Blast acts as normal, and the damage is dealt two turns later.
2. Psych Up actually does nothing, because the stat boosts are copied to the user. However, it does target the opponent, so it's possible to use if the user is still active.
3. Teatime makes all active Pokémon consume berries, but not the user, if the user is out of battle.
4. Fickle Beam DOES have the 30% chance of "going all-out", but the message is displayed for it when the move actually hits.

Here's a list of moves and mechanics I've come up with for testing. See you all later!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/107J95R9su353ZsVfQi73gm8OseMEbn395Wl2ZdrPvXA/
 
InkyDarkBird said:
Can we do something about Whimsicott Cotton Guard + Zamazenta? The combination outspeeds nearly anything and is ridiculously difficult to take down under screens.
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On a Zama, it seems like it's kinda underutilized. Sure it's Body Press upon switching in is very powerful, but it's known to the opponent, so a ghost type / Will-O-Wisp / Roar might come
To counter it.
I'd recommend another Pokemon that benefits from the +3, but doesn't care about most answers to Zama, like Calm Mind Stored Power Clef
 
AIPS said:
On a Zama, it seems like it's kinda underutilized. Sure it's Body Press upon switching in is very powerful, but it's known to the opponent, so a ghost type / Will-O-Wisp / Roar might come
To counter it.
I'd recommend another Pokemon that benefits from the +3, but doesn't care about most answers to Zama, like Calm Mind Stored Power Clef
Click to expand...
It absolutely destroys HO and can also learn Crunch.
 
Gambit_Gamin said:
I didn't want to go crazy with the banlist so I'm living it on the watchlist. Once this is playable, this will be tested to figure out whether this is op or not.


Nasty Plot is not banned due to similar reasons to Swords Dance not being banned listed above.
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Ima be honest boosting moves aren't really that op. I'm currently no15 on the ladder and I've barely had any trouble with boosting moves nor have I used them much. The only moves that really worries me to play against is Trick Room (playstyle, really). It's basically like regular OU.
 
big miike said:
Whimisictott is lowkey an S-tier support mon with cotton guard as the first move. This is the set I've been using:

View attachment 611446
Whimsicott @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Cotton Guard
- Light Screen
- Memento
- U-turn

Set up light screen, cotton guard, then memento/u-turn into setup sweeper. Prankster is huge in this meta because it ensures your move gets foresighted if your opponent targets you with their foresighted move
Click to expand...
With my experience with Whimsicott, it's pretty overrated. Cotton Guard barely works useless your opponent is pure physical. The other moves don't really stand out to me.
 
Playering said:
With my experience with Whimsicott, it's pretty overrated. Cotton Guard barely works useless your opponent is pure physical. The other moves don't really stand out to me.
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Agree to disagree my dude, im #1 and #5 on the ladder on two of my accounts both using Whimsicott teams. Set up sweepers are super free with prankster cotton guard + light screen, and memento & u-turn give two great options for passing boosts. Ill post the team I;ve had most success with later but still finalizing it
 
IceNovice4163 said:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9foresighters-2076285933
I have some time before school, so I decided to test some more moves!

1. Beak Blast acts as normal, and the damage is dealt two turns later.
2. Psych Up actually does nothing, because the stat boosts are copied to the user. However, it does target the opponent, so it's possible to use if the user is still active.
3. Teatime makes all active Pokémon consume berries, but not the user, if the user is out of battle.
4. Fickle Beam DOES have the 30% chance of "going all-out", but the message is displayed for it when the move actually hits.

Here's a list of moves and mechanics I've come up with for testing. See you all later!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/107J95R9su353ZsVfQi73gm8OseMEbn395Wl2ZdrPvXA/
Click to expand...
I have tested almost all of these
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9foresighters-2085664028
and, I have concluded that this OM is surprisingly low in bugs, and I believe I figured out why all the current bugs happen
for clarification, the original user of the Foresighted move is the "user", and the mon currently on the field when the Foresighted move is used is the "recipient"
Stuff Cheeks works if the user has a Berry, even if the recipient does not. However, the user does not consume their berry.

Spit Up immediately consumes the user's Stockpile stacks, and it fails if you switch, even if the recipient has Stockpile stacks.

Swallow just doesn't work. It fails if you switch, and it wont work if you stay in since the target is the user. This move and Spit Up appear to consider the user's Stockpile stacks, not the recipient's. However, I have no idea why Spit Up immediately consumes Stockpile and Swallow does not. (If you're wondering, Swallow does not normally fail at full health, so that is not the reason.)

Quash completely fails if you switch. I assume it works normally if you stay in.

Pain Split considers the user's HP.

Healing moves (Giga Drain and co.) do not heal anyone.

Uproar's effect works normally...however you may have noticed that instead of saying "Hatterene was freed from Uproar", it says "Hatterene calmed down." This is related to the bug of Stealth Rock saying "The pointed rocks disappeared from around [TEAM]!" when future sighted. More on that in the next spoiler.
props to whoever coded this, because i have found no game-breaking bugs, only visual ones.

Sprite stacking: If a future move succeeds on use but fails 2 turns later, the user's sprite will appear behind the recipient's. i dont know if this happens with misses or immunities.

weird future usage messages: If a move has a special message for it "ending", that message will display upon its future use, instead of "(pokemon) was freed from (move)". for example, when stealth rock "ends" (aka is removed), it displays "the pointed stone disappeared from around (team name)", so that is displayed, except the sim has no team to reference so it displays [TEAM]. Similarly, when Uproar ends, it displays "(pokemon) calmed down."

bestow, imprison, and a few other tests coming soon™

edit: bestow got dexited idk why it was on the list
 
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InkyDarkBird said:
Why would that be a bug? The ability description only says that it reflects moves back at the attacker, not the user.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Magic_Bounce_(Ability)
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The attacker and user would functionally be the same. It's a bug because it's ridiculous for any attack to hit a mon that's not on the field except when the move affects ones not on the field by design, such as with aromatherapy, heal bell, and revival blessing. A move that targets a foe should at no point affect one that's not on the field at the time the attack activates.
 
Few questions
1. How does Wish turns work if Wish is in the first slot? And a matter of that fact, how does Future Sight/Doom Desire work here?
2. How would the Pledge moves work here?
3. How does Fusion Bolt/Flare work here as well (though this would only be possible with Smeargle and Ubers variant of this meta).
 
Cuddly said:
Few questions
1. How does Wish turns work if Wish is in the first slot? And a matter of that fact, how does Future Sight/Doom Desire work here?
2. How would the Pledge moves work here?
3. How does Fusion Bolt/Flare work here as well (though this would only be possible with Smeargle and Ubers variant of this meta).
Click to expand...
1: I'm pretty sure wish would start its usual countdown after the delay of being in the first move slot. Future sight and doom desire work as they normally do
2: Due to how the pledge moves work in doubles and the way it affects move order, I don't think they can be utilized to get their combo effects by using the first move slot.
3: Since the effect of fusion bolt/flare doubles if the other one was used in the same turn, it should still double the damage on the foresighted hit as long as the other move was also used on that turn. If not, then this can be considered a bug based on the move description.
 
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