Froslass (Fling Lead)

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RealmZero

This idea just came to me, after experimenting with pokemon that used Thief and Fling to continuously take items, I made a Blissey that had light ball with T-wave, Fling, Softboiled, Seismic toss. and then the next thing I thought of was this:

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Froslass @ Light Ball
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 36 HP/240 Spd/224 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Fling
- Spikes
- Destiny Bond
- Ice Beam

As most of you may know, "Fling" is a move that hasn't quite hit the spotlight. But I find that when it is paired with the item "Light Ball" (Paralyzes when thrown) it becomes a viable strategy due to Fling's dark type.

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- Ghost typing prevents most of the common priority moves
- For most leads you fling first turn
- 100% chance to paralyze even ground types and ghost types.
- Physical move, goes through taunt
- Breaks sash at the same time
- Prevents you from getting locked into a move by trick, and gives the tricker a Light Ball
-Since they're slower than you after the paralysis, you're free to use Spikes
-Since they're slower than you, you can properly time a Destiny Bond

Other Options:
- Ice shard can be used over Ice beam if you want to handle Ninjasks instead of Dragonite, Aerodactyl, Azelf, and Roserade. Destiny Bond can be replaced for a move of your choice, but keep in mind it's needed for machamps.

Damage Calcs:
- Fling against Lead Aerodactyl, damage range (23-28) maximum of 278 HP remaining. Ice beam against Lead Aerodactyl, damage range (278-330) guaranteed kill.
- Ice beam on Dragonite is a OHKO
- Ice beam Azelf is a 2HKO/It does between 148-174 damage/50.3-59.6%
- Ice beam on Roserade is a 2HKO/210-248/80.2%-94.7%

Teammates:
For this set, a Shuca Berry Heatran is reccomended. A DD Gyrados is a fair partner as well, and anyone who can handle a Starmie Lead is appreciated.

Against the top 15 Leads of August (Research provided by Invalid and Jasmine of Team Uber, Thanks):

- Azelf: Ice Beam first turn to break the Sash, if they Taunt, Ice Beam 2HKO's (That attack will do between 148 and 174 damage!).
- Machamp: Destiny bond for payback, If you survive, use Spikes.
- Aerodactyl: Fling and use Ice beam
- Metagross: Use the heatran partner.
- Swampert: Fling and use Spikes.
- Infernape: Fling to Break sash and Paralyze. Use spikes or switch to Gyrados.
- Heatran: Use the DD Gyrados.
- Jirachi: Use Heatran again.
- Ninjask: Replace Ice beam with Ice shard, or use Fling on the Baton Recipient.
- Roserade: Ice beam is a 2HKO, hope for a miss with sleep powder, or switch out.
- Hippowdon: Fling and use Spikes.
- Starmie: Causes problems
- Dragonite: Ice Beam is a 1HKO
- Tyranitar: Fling and use Spikes
- Uxie: Fling and use Spikes.

Please vote and share your opinion,
Realm.​
 
The lack of taunt really ruins the whole purpose of Froslass's great speed. Also fling won't do anything to lead Skarmory even though it's super effective except paralyzing it while it heals of any damage and get layers of spikes+stealth rock up. Once the Opponent sees you lack taunt they won't bother attacking you. Vs leads such as Inferape and heatran you'd have to switch meaning they get entry hazards up so I don't really see the point of this being a lead, maybe give it a non-lead role since you have to switch vs almost half the most popular leads ;p


'- Tyranitar: Fling and use Spikes'

Tyranitar will Hit you with crunch right of the bat and won't give you a chance to set up spikes;p


'Damage Calcs:
- Fling against Lead Aerodactyl, damage range (23-28) maximum of 278 HP remaining. Ice beam against Lead Aerodactyl, damage range (278-330) guaranteed kill.
- Ice beam on Dragonite is a OHKO
- Ice beam Azelf is a 2HKO/It does between 148-174 damage/50.3-59.6%
- Ice beam on Roserade is a 2HKO/210-248/80.2%-94.7%'


All those calcs are irrelevant to the sole fact that Azelf and Aerodactyl are suicude leads, them getting down entry hazards before dying is a +ve for the opponent. Roserade is rare to been seen nowadays as a lead and if you encounter it, it holds focus sash which will let it live the hit then fire of a leaf storm.

Your set is trying to have an attempt to add some new spice into the old standard one but you ignore the point that Taunt has more positives then fling. Either way VS faster leads they will set up before you paralyse or ice beam whatever you wish to.
 
Skarmory isn't that common (Ice beam on Skarmory? or Spikes?), and you could put a rapid spinner on the team. Besides, with taunt, how would you expect to beat Azelf and Aerodactyl? you would be switching out and giving them their rocks just liked you described.

That might be true about tyranitar.

edit* Fair enough, but I want to see what other people think too. : )

(I'm not ignoring anything, this is simply a suggestion set)

Also, what kind of role do you think it could fill besides Lead? and what other pokemon could take advantage of a Fling Set?
 
Froslass knows Thunder Wave. There is hardly any reason to use Fling even assuming a paralysis set would be effective.
 
Run Jolly with Ice Punch over Ice Beam, and run 252Atk/4Def/252Spe.

Run Taunt over Destiny Bond. You NEED Taunt to beat many common leads, such as Infernape and Uxie.

In all, this seems like a very situational set.
 
I don't see how this is useful at all. Most all common leads will OHKO you, so it's ridiculous to think about what you're going to do next turn 2. You paralyze an opponent and are now down 5-6.
 
Eo Ut Mortus said:
Froslass knows Thunder Wave. There is hardly any reason to use Fling even assuming a paralysis set would be effective.
Click to expand...

While I do agree that this set is not good, the benefits of Fling have already been stated. Fling cannot be taunted and Fling has the secondary benefit of breaking Focus Sash.
 
Meru said:
While I do agree that this set is not good, the benefits of Fling have already been stated. Fling cannot be taunted and Fling has the secondary benefit of breaking Focus Sash.
Click to expand...

Also if it's a trick lead, they give you a choice item as you use the move Fling which gets rid of it, and they get light ball which has no benefit. Thunder wave doesn't work on ground types either.

Phantom IV "Most all common leads will OHKO you" You could just use Destiny Bond if that's the case.

Thanks for your opinions. I do realise now that this set is a bit more gimmicky than I thought at first, but I personally love that type of play style anyway.
 
- 100% chance to paralyze even ground types
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Since this Froslass is meant to lead, wouldn't it make more sense to Ice Beam those said Ground-types? Gliscor gets OHKOed, and Hippowdon / Swampert could give two shits less about para. I mean, Flygon COULD be a problem, but I doubt that it's going to switch in early in the game just to pick off a Froslass lol. Also, breaking sashes isn't really helpful when: A. Froslass gets outpaced by Aerodactyl and Azelf, and B. Froslass can't take a hit from any common suicide lead. Ice Shard > Fling would make this set significantly better .-.
 
In today's metagame, full of Aerodactyl and Machamp, Froslass really isn't a good lead right now. And I LOVE Froslass, so when I say that, it has meaning. I mean, you can set-up on slower leads, but you REALLY need Taunt. The current lead set is superior to this. Besides, Froslass gets Icy Wind, which accomplishes everything you want Fling to accomplish, except it also frees up your item slot. In all, I must say I feel this set is a gimmick.
 
RealmZero said:
Maybe this set would be better on a gengar then? But by the way, Froslass isn't outpaced after the paralysis takes effect.
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Why Fling on gengar? For starters you already have respectable 350 speed stats and also, what are the target pokemon that you'd be hoping to hit with fling? Shadow ball destroys nearly everything that outspeeds you such as azelf and Starmie. Most people bring in Blissey, Snorlax, Scizor, Fortress on Gengars nowadays and to hit them with fling is just a waste? Sciozr will pursuit you anyhow fortress willl just get a stronger gryo ball or hit you with payback and snorlax doesn't give two fucks if it paralyzed. Also Thunderbolt>Fling mainly since Fling won't OHKO gyarados and it won't deal any damage to other water types. You have to understand that just because you get guranteed Paralyze does not mean the move is efficient with 'Gengar' or 'froslass' maybe with slower pokemon that might have other moves to go nicely with fling. The only positive I see about fling on Gengar/Froslass is being able to hit Flygon and Jirachi for the paralyze.
 
This set actually seems very interesting! I'll test it out, even though it loses to some notable leads, like Aerodactyl (Stone Edge), Starmie, and Heatran.
 
While this lead does seem interesting, im a bit skeptical on its performance. As i see it, the majority of the time your better off running the standard suicide lead with Focus Sash. To prove my point, ill quote your lead analysis.

- Azelf: Ice Beam first turn to break the Sash, if they Taunt, Ice Beam 2HKO's (That attack will do between 148 and 174 damage!). No different from the standard froslass lead. in fact, atleast the standard has focus sash in case the opponent uses fire blast or a CB Zen headbutt.
- Machamp: Destiny bond for payback, If you survive, use Spikes. if your team prioritizes spikes, you may be better off going for the one layer. if not, this has something over the standard lead
- Aerodactyl: Fling and use Ice beam stone edge kos you and you have no sash to take the hit.
- Metagross: Use the heatran partner. standard froslass can do the same
- Swampert: Fling and use Spikes. better off just stacking multiple spikes
- Infernape: Fling to Break sash and Paralyze. Use spikes or switch to Gyrados. same as swampert
- Heatran: Use the DD Gyrados. same as swampert
- Jirachi: Use Heatran again. same as meta
- Ninjask: Replace Ice beam with Ice shard, or use Fling on the Baton Recipient. no different from standard lead
- Roserade: Ice beam is a 2HKO, hope for a miss with sleep powder, or switch out. standard lead can Taunt + Spikes
- Hippowdon: Fling and use Spikes. same as swampert
- Starmie: Causes problems
- Dragonite: Ice Beam is a 1HKO standard lead does that too
- Tyranitar: Fling and use Spikes tyranitar is slow anyways so having it paralyzed isnt much of a gain. im assuming froslass can take a crunch with your EVs since your mentioning this.
- Uxie: Fling and use Spikes. same as swampert
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To summarize my opinion, while this lead may work, i dont see much reason to use it outside of the standard suicide lead who gets the opportunity two set up multiple layers vs some leads. Ill test it before i make a final decision though.
 
As Megan Fox said, I find this questionable because it seems like a gimmicky version of the standard suicide lead that actually has *less* chances to set up Spikes against certain Pokemon due to Fling and a lack of Focus Sash.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
Tested it a bit earlier today, outcome was what i expected. Sorry but the lead is more or less inferior to the standard suicide lead.

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
By the way you write it, it looks like you want fling primarily because it beat's leads, you paralyse the faster lead then do whatever because honestly who cares about paralysing the slower ones that you can set up on. With this in mind, the standard lead beats more leads than this one (well maybe not completely standard ice shard in conjunction with shadow ball/ice beam (depending on what you want to beat), spikes and destiny bond/taunt).

But yeah, seeing as faster leads are taken care of with better measures and you should set up on slower leads anyway....

QC REJECTED (3/3)
Sorry...
 
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