Fusion Evolution V4

[Reviloja753]

Kyzor and Gonzap are also quickbanned. Also leaning heavy on banning Saldreigonce. I'm only holding back for this very moment because I decided to make it so Huge Power and the like now ignore the immunity. Btw, I want everyone to keep in mind that quickbans at this point in time will likely be revisited at later points, similar to lower tiers this gen. The only ones that we won't revisit atm are Kars and Dialcatty.

EDIT: Cat Bed is remaining for the moment, because if charizard8888 can figure a way out, I am hoping to make it so that the burn is cured when they switch out, or just simply lowering any non-Fire type's Attack by two stages. Sorry zard for pulling it out from under you ^^;

 

[Reviloja753]

Oh yeah, forgot this originally, but Dittsey is also quickbanned, since it's an even dumber version of Imposter Chansey from BH, especially with the Fusion Move it'll likely get. Harem is banned too in case people forgot btw
EDIT: Diceus too is also banned due to being a cheap way around Species Clause.

 

[Yahooboo]

EDIT: Diceus too is also banned due to being a cheap way around Species Clause.

oh for crying out loud, this is completely unreasonable unless you can show a way in which this thing can actually be broken. It's not like it gets around species clause that hard considering you can only have one extra copy on your team, you can't have a Pokemon that shares the type of the chosen plate, and you need to have the exact same moveset and EVs on each one...

 

[Cookie Butter]

While it isn't on the level of pre-nerf Cherr-oh, Chazma is still an unrivalled "team glue" better than Lando-T is on normal OU- there's no reason not to run it. I suggest we nerf Chazma because its ability is quite a stretch. It's not as absurd as many abilities out there in FE, but it's still weird that it has immunity to status conditions when neither Healer or Prism Armor give any sort of immunity. Adding to that, it doesn't make sense for its ability to be active at all times, buffing its allies while it isn't on field. In short:
Before: This Pokemon and it's allies receives 3/4 damage from supereffective attacks and cannot recieve any major status condition.
After: This Pokemon receives 3/4 damage from supereffective attacks, and has 30% chance to heal its own major status conditions. In Double battles, the heal effect also applies to allies. This effect can't be ignored by Mold Breaker and variants.

 

[colourcodedchaos]

Upon checking the thread, I found out it was made by colourcodedchaos . So I guess it's up to either of you to change the name of the mon or the ability

All my fusions are named using anagrams of the fused parents' names. The weirder, the better. I didn't realize Permafrost was taken by an ability, though, so I'll change that.

Renaming the fusion to Sugarplum and the ability to Nutcracker

 

[Yung Dramps]

Just wanna say that Sablegigas' ability should not remove TR if it is already up. That's how Heebleye's ability works. Can we fix that?

 

[Yung Dramps]

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanna bring up an interesting idea KirbyRider came up with.

Right now, Hippally only summons the 8 vanilla weathers and terrains, with the rest of its forms summoning miscellaneous field effects. Why not allow it to summon some of the new terrains and weathers introduced in FE instead?

Here's what we had in mind.

Dark: Dark Terrain (currently summons Trick Room)
Flying: Rainbow Sky (currently summons Water Sport)
Ghost: Spirit Storm (currently summons Magic Room) (only spirit storm auto-setter ooooooooooo)
Poison: Radioactive Terrain (currently summons Haze)
Steel: Magnetic Terrain (currently summons Ion Deluge)

All of these would be fairly easy to implement since some of them are coded in already. It would also make Hippally cooler, more fun to use and more viable.
All of

 

[Cookie Butter]

Just wanna say that Sablegigas' ability should not remove TR if it is already up. That's how Heebleye's ability works. Can we fix that?

Sablegigas's ability working like that is intentional. It came after Heebleye, and Heebleye doesn't remove it on switch-in, so it's not like whoever submitted didn't know that it could be coded like that. With the way Sablegigas's ability works right now, it's good for mixing TR and anti TR elements in your team.

 

[Yung Dramps]

Aight so we put it up to poll in the Discord and we decided that Sablegigas is fine as is dont change it keep it so it replaces tr k thx

 

[AquaticPanic]

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanna bring up an interesting idea KirbyRider came up with.

Right now, Hippally only summons the 8 vanilla weathers and terrains, with the rest of its forms summoning miscellaneous field effects. Why not allow it to summon some of the new terrains and weathers introduced in FE instead?

Here's what we had in mind.

Dark: Dark Terrain (currently summons Trick Room)
Flying: Rainbow Sky (currently summons Water Sport)
Ghost: Spirit Storm (currently summons Magic Room) (only spirit storm auto-setter ooooooooooo)
Poison: Radioactive Terrain (currently summons Haze)
Steel: Magnetic Terrain (currently summons Ion Deluge)

All of these would be fairly easy to implement since some of them are coded in already. It would also make Hippally cooler, more fun to use and more viable.
All of

I suppose we should ask what the creator(CoolMan6001) thinks about it first.

 

[Yung Dramps]

I suppose we should ask what the creator(CoolMan6001) thinks about it first.

Sounds good, but the issue is that he hasn't been online for nearly 2 months, so... Yeah.

Anyways, some more ban suggestions, but this time for two problematic moves.

First off is Extreme Speed, or rather, -atespeed. I've done some tests with Entsir and A Rave-Alola against other players, and lemme tell ya, this playstyle has the potential to complete warp the metagame. Normally, priority is balanced by the fact that priority moves are really weak. Extreme Speed is balanced by its low distribution and Normal being eh coverage-wise. With -atespeed, all of this is tossed out the window, with the ability for terrifying attackers like Mega Entsir, A Rave-Alola, Mega Entaria and Mega Altarigarde to take advantage of priority moves with nearly the same base power as Earthquake and amazing coverage. There are other problematic vanilla Espeed users (eg Enteon and Vallysect), but for now, I suggest a ban on the combination of -ate abilities and Extreme Speed to prevent this format from descending into Espeed spam madness and every team being forced into running anti-priority measures.

Nobody's talked about it, but I would like to bring up Geomancy. There are currently 4 Xerneas fusions, and most of them can use this move to break shit real quick. Xernemite can trap Fairy types (which are abundant in FE) and set up in their faces while they can do little back after boosts. Lies can get an insane 1.66x multiplier to its Fairy moves just by consuming Power Herb. And Marshern has an amazing offensive type with an ability that allows it to exploit coverage options. I think Geomancy is just begging to be exploited. Maybe not quickban, but keep an eye on it.

 

[Yahooboo]

I suggest a ban on the combination of -ate abilities and Extreme Speed

complex bans are not a good idea, just ban individual abusers or if you really must then ban Extreme Speed.

 

[charizard8888]

Spotted some more abilities that don't work.

Kartanbull's ability Subdue doesn't activate on switch-in:

Lietaur's ability Titanic Strength doesn't activate when he loses his item:

Thanks
Subdue Note that it says [The foe's Subdue] which also screws up the tooltip, I asked Spandan and he said it's probably from the client side.
Titanic Strength #1 #2

EDIT: Cat Bed is remaining for the moment, because if charizard8888 can figure a way out, I am hoping to make it so that the burn is cured when they switch out, or just simply lowering any non-Fire type's Attack by two stages. Sorry zard for pulling it out from under you ^^;

The attack lowering thing has been installed into the ability rather than the terrain now if that's what was required, otherwise let us know.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7fusionevolution-4533

Also what's the full banlist till now?

 

[Reviloja753]

Thanks
Subdue Note that it says [The foe's Subdue] which also screws up the tooltip, I asked Spandan and he said it's probably from the client side.
Titanic Strength #1 #2


The attack lowering thing has been installed into the ability rather than the terrain now if that's what was required, otherwise let us know.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/dragonheaven-gen7fusionevolution-4533

Also what's the full banlist till now?

First of all, be sure to keep the Fire and Fairy boosts to the Terrain. Second, I think that Fairy should also not get “burned” since the terrain is meant for them anyway. Other than that, it’s good. Banlist is as follows:

Dialcatty, Kars, Dittsey, Diceus, Peridot-Mega, Kyzor, Gonzap, Harem

(PS: The ability nerf of Chazma is going to go through, so it isn’t going to be banned)

 

[AquaticPanic]

While it isn't on the level of pre-nerf Cherr-oh, Chazma is still an unrivalled "team glue" better than Lando-T is on normal OU- there's no reason not to run it. I suggest we nerf Chazma because its ability is quite a stretch. It's not as absurd as many abilities out there in FE, but it's still weird that it has immunity to status conditions when neither Healer or Prism Armor give any sort of immunity. Adding to that, it doesn't make sense for its ability to be active at all times, buffing its allies while it isn't on field. In short:
Before: This Pokemon and it's allies receives 3/4 damage from supereffective attacks and cannot recieve any major status condition.
After: This Pokemon receives 3/4 damage from supereffective attacks, and has 30% chance to heal its own major status conditions. In Double battles, the heal effect also applies to allies. This effect can't be ignored by Mold Breaker and variants.

Can we at the least keep the 3/4 damage reduction going to allies in doubles?

 

[Yahooboo]

Dialcatty, Kars, Dittsey, Diceus, Peridot-Mega, Kyzor, Gonzap, Harem

care to explain how Diceus is actually deserving of a ban?

 

[Yung Dramps]

care to explain how Diceus is actually deserving of a ban?

Look, don't worry about it too much, ok? With the exception of Dialcatty and Kars, all of the quickbans are gonna be re-tested at some point down the road. We're just quickbanning 'em now since the tour is coming up and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Diceus will get a chance eventually, so just be patient.

 

[Yahooboo]

Look, don't worry about it too much, ok? With the exception of Dialcatty and Kars, all of the quickbans are gonna be re-tested at some point down the road. We're just quickbanning 'em now since the tour is coming up and it's better to be safe than sorry.

Diceus will get a chance eventually, so just be patient.

Uh, no, I'm going to ask right now because it seems to have not actually been banned for anything related to power level, which is pretty dumb.

 

[Reviloja753]

Uh, no, I'm going to ask right now because it seems to have not actually been banned for anything related to power level, which is pretty dumb.

I didn’t articulate it well when I banned it, but the reason is mainly because there isn’t any reason not to run Diceus. It transforms into a Pokémon on your team, meaning it can make a Pokémon twice as annoying. Oxybliss-Defense gone? Bring in your Diceus with Psychic plate and you get ANOTHER one. Minirill? Bring Diceus Fairy plate and you have two sweep fusions.

 

[Pika Xreme]

I didn’t articulate it well when I banned it, but the reason is mainly because there isn’t any reason not to run Diceus. It transforms into a Pokémon on your team, meaning it can make a Pokémon twice as annoying. Oxybliss-Defense gone? Bring in your Diceus with Psychic plate and you get ANOTHER one. Minirill? Bring Diceus Fairy plate and you have two sweep fusions.

...except for the part where it takes up a team slot to provide no new utility to your team, not even if the "target" has a wide movepool, as it has to run the exact same set as the Pokémon it's imitating, except without a useful item.

 

[G-Luke]

...except for the part where it takes up a team slot to provide no new utility to your team, not even if the "target" has a wide movepool, as it has to run the exact same set as the Pokémon it's imitating, except without a useful item.

Its basically a cheap way of over-riding the Species clause, a clause that was implemented to prevent stuff like two Xerneas sweeping teams. Fusion Evolution is polarizing as it is. Do we really need a mon that can transform into any thing on your team? Lots of mons already have few shaky checks, but two of those mons on the same team puts a lot of stress on battlers and builders. especially since you literally cannot know what threat on the opposing team it will transform into. You say it takes up a team slot, but really, if i could have a Cinshao to wear down traditional Normal checks, jus to have another clean late game when said checks are busted, why wouldn't I do it? Also, it still gets the boost from the Plates, so its by no means a worthless item.

 

[Yahooboo]

I didn’t articulate it well when I banned it, but the reason is mainly because there isn’t any reason not to run Diceus. It transforms into a Pokémon on your team, meaning it can make a Pokémon twice as annoying. Oxybliss-Defense gone? Bring in your Diceus with Psychic plate and you get ANOTHER one. Minirill? Bring Diceus Fairy plate and you have two sweep fusions.

I think you highly, highly overestimate how good that ability is. You have to run the same set with the same EVs, bringing absolutely no utility to your team at all and just compounding your weaknesses further. You say people have no reason not to run it, but honestly Diceus teams without a special gimmick (Abusing the increased health, or copying a wincon ability like Padunk's) are shit.

edit: why tf are you copying Oxybliss when the copy only has 104 base hp?

Its basically a cheap way of over-riding the Species clause, a clause that was implemented to prevent stuff like two Xerneas sweeping teams. Fusion Evolution is polarizing as it is. Do we really need a mon that can transform into any thing on your team? Lots of mons already have few shaky checks, but two of those mons on the same team puts a lot of stress on battlers and builders. especially since you literally cannot know what threat on the opposing team it will transform into. You say it takes up a team slot, but really, if i could have a Cinshao to wear down traditional Normal checks, jus to have another clean late game when said checks are busted, why wouldn't I do it? Also, it still gets the boost from the Plates, so its by no means a worthless item.

Two Xerneas to sweep teams isn't actually terribly good, though? Against teams which have both Dusk Mane and PDon you have two easily counterable setup-sweepers and one less slot for dealing with the counters. Also, Diceus can't even hold a power herb so this is a pretty bad analogy. Species Clause is there largely because of versatile Pokemon like Landorus-T, as people would love to use both a defensive and set up sweeper Lando on one OU team, or Arceus in Ubers taking up nearly every teamslot. That doesn't happen with Diceus due to the fixed moveset. Not to mention you can't have another Pokemon of the same type as the plate on your team or the consistency is thrown in the trash.

Oh, and also I really feel like Cinshado needs banning more than Diceus does lol.

 

[Jucherz]

ban everything except Shrek

 

[Gojiratar]

ban everything except Shrek

Case that's the only fucking way to make it somewhat viable

 

[Samtendo09]

Joke aside, I 100% agreed with what G-Luke had said; Fusion Evolution is polarizing for various reasons, one of them I think is that it swayed away too much of OU instead of adapting them into it, and become its own Tier (between OU and Uber) and not everyone liked that. It also about tendency of allowing a good concept that ended up having their overpowered aspects overlooked.

This is a reason why I don't contribute here anymore; the Power Creep had raised way too high and I was unable to figure out how to make them good concepts anymore.