fustrated to no end, please RMT

Gairyuki789

I am very fustrated with this team right now, although they preform well in most situations, there are somecases like once where i was in a tournament and lost in the semi's to a Gyarados due to uncertainties with it, and switching out Starmie for an empoleon which lead to my defeat...i'm not going to deny this team has it's flaws...or stealth rock for that matter which is why I need some help.

Anti/Counter Leader
149.png

Dragonite@Focus Sash
Ability:Inner Focus
Evs:252 Atk, 252 SpA, 4 Spe
Quiet Nature (+ SpA, -Spe)
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Earthquake
Extremespeed.
Unlike most other counterlead Dragonites, I equipped mine with a focus sash just in case it does come up against an opposing Nite, or something that can give it trouble for leader status. Most of the time it takes a hit, counterstrikes with enough force to put the opposing leader on the brink of death, and then finishes them off with Extremespeed, however the flaw is that's all this pokemon is really good for, faster leads that open with sleep moves can give it trouble as can Hippowdon and Tyranitar due to their sandstream ability negating the sash and in the latter's case gives it a boost enough to survive the special attacks with ease.

The Spinner
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Starmie@Expert Belt
Ability:Natural Cure
Evs: 252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 Hp
Timid Nature(+Spe, -Atk)
Rapid Spin
Ice Beam
Thunderbolt
Surf
This pokemon can cover for practically every other member of the team thanks to it's rapid spin move to get rid of stealth rock and other malicious hazards, and thanks to the expert belt and moves it posesses it can handle a great number of threats, however Weavile, Tyranitar and most dark pokemon with Pursuit can hurt this thing as can Blissey as it shrugs off all of it's attacks, however Blissey can try to inflict a status condition on it but it can easily be recalled and shrug it off thanks to Natural Cure.

The Main Force
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Infernape@Life Orb
Ability:Blaze
Evs:64 Atk, 252 SpA, 192 Spe
Naive Nature(+Spe, -SpD)
Fire Blast
Hidden Power Ice
Grass Knot
Close Combat
Out of the two Mixapes I prefer this one alot more than the physical one as it covers more ground (literally) with it's move pool, Fire Blast and Close Combat are for stab and get the job done, Hidden Power ice can ko pretty much anything that's double weak to it and Grass Knot handles Swampert, this pokemon's no 1 threat, being the main attacker of the team the others have to remove threats against it for it to be truely effective, this comes in the form of either scarf using pokemon, Latias or fast psychic's like Azelf and Starmie who may know Psychic, Lucario can also be a problem if it has been weakened too much by entry hazards but it can usually sustain a non swords danced extremespeed and then counter kill the anubis, overall this is the pokemon that the team is based around.

Back up Muscle
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Weavile@Expert Belt
Ability:Pressure
Evs:252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Def
Jolly Nature (+Spe,-SpA)
Ice Shard
Ice Punch
Night Slash
Brick Break
This pokemon covers Infernape's Dragon and psychic weakness quite well, as well as being able to drop Tyranitar and Lucario with Brick Beak (especially if the latter one doesn't use Extremespeed.) Night Slash and Ice Punch do some nasty damage against pokemon who are weak to them, and generally overall due to the power Weavile has. Like the others though this pokemon has some weaknesses that only Infernape and Starmie can cover, that being steel types like Scizor who usually come in when he hits the field forcing a withdraw, strong phyiscal defenders like Rhyperior and Hippowdon can also give the poor thing some trouble if they resist his moves and counter with attacks like Stone Edge.
　
Back up Special
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Jolteon@Life Orb
Ability:Volt Absorb
Evs:252 Spe, 252 SpA, 4 hp
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
Hidden power Ice
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Charge Beam.
Let me first say i've tried choice spec variations of this pokemon, they didn't work for me. I've also tried an expert belt option but it lacks power unlike Weavile who can dish out pain. Also given that Rotom is a pain to use online due to having to use an AR which can lead to glitching and Electrivire become so predictable it dies easily(seriously when a Lucario can ko Electrivire with one Extremespeed without Stealth Rock or a critical hit with a life orb, it's just weak.) what better solid electrical pokemon to use is there? Ok sure Electrivire, opposing Jolteons, Lanturn and Blissey can give it trouble, but anything else gets hit hard, even rock pokemon with sandstorm boosts, it covers Infernape's water weakness as Weavile deals with the other two, Thunderbolt and HP Ice form a pseudo "Boltbeam" combo which is nice and shadow ball can pick off psychic's and ghost's that come in, Charge Beam i'm not too sure about using but i've yet to find a more reliable move for that last slot, usually I only have to use the other three anyway.
and finally.

Cleanup
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Scizor@Life Orb
Ability:Technician
Evs:252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 Hp
Adamant Nature (+Atk,-SpA)
Bullet Punch
Swords Dance
Bug Bite
Brick Break
As the name implies this pokemon is usually the last one to come out, there are certain exceptions however. It helps Weavile in covering Infernape's dragon weakness, and can also help block opposing dragons as well due to it's powerful bullet punch attack, Bug Bite can help nail Psychic's that threaten Infernape and Brick Break is helpful incase any steel types should enter like Magnezone who intend to trap it.
Like I said at the beginning I see this teams flaws and it needs a Stealth Rock user, but with Dragonite being such a good anti/counter leader for this team if I was to use a Stealth Rock user it'd probably be someone to come in after Dragonite goes down, and from what i can tell Weavile is the obvious choice to go for such a fragile team, but that is my style, speed and power over anything else.

I need rating and i need advice on what to do regarding a replacement for Weavile that can use Stealth Rock.
 
Hello

Seeing this is an offensive team you could try to lead with Aerodactyl. With Taunt it can prevent SR from being set up and it will really helps you against stall. I suggest the standard set with 4 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe and with the moves: Stealth Rock, Rock Slide, Earthquake and Taunt. You could replace this with you current Dragonite. Without a Life Orb Dragonite cannot get the OHKO's it should so it's no big loss anyway.

To let you sweep with Infernape you should focus on taking out it's counters.

-Latias can be handled by Scizor pretty well. I suggest a slightly more bulkier set so you can have an easier time getting in a Sword Dance or two. The spread I had in mind was: 188 HP, 252 Atk, 60 Spe. you can use Leftovers as an item here as the reliable form of recovery is appreciated over recoil damage.

- Gyarados is countered very well by Starmie just don't wait to long to get Starmie in as it will die quickly if Gyarados manages to get some Dragon Dances in. If you want some recovery to keep Starmie around long you could go with Recover over Rapid Spin. With Aerodactyl as you lead Stealth Rock will be set up late or not even at all and seeing none of your pokemon is actually weak to it it isn't really needed.

- Starmie is just as Latias a nice set up bait for Scizor. Jolteon can outspeed and KO in return and he might even switch in a Thunderbolt to get some HP back.

- Tentacruel isn't a theat at all against such an offensive team as yours. Jolteon, Starmie and (if still alive) Aerodactyl can handle that pretty nicely.

Since you have quite a few Ice type attacks on your team you could consider a Grass typed Hidden Power on Jolteon. You could also go with Substitute instead of Charge Beam so that Jolteon isn't weak to revenge kills. And the SAtk boost on a hit-and-run pokemon is a bit redundant.

Since I suggested you to drop Dragonite in favor of Aerodactyl you have a weakness to Fighting type moves but this easily overcome. As you said Weaville is the weakest member on your team I suggest replacing him. Preferable for something that fits your needs (fast and high attack) I suggest Gengar. The MyticGar set will fit you team nicely as it lures out Scizor and Tyranitar (and to a lesser extend Rotom-a) that could cause your fragile team some trouble. The MysticGar set is the following: 4 HP, 252 Spe, 252 SATK with the moves Protect, Shadow Ball, Focus Blast and Hidden Power (fire). The concept is simple: let Tyranitar/ Scizor switch-in, Protect to scout wether they are using Pursuit or something else. If they use Pursuit you attack them with Shadow Ball or Hidden Power (fire) respectively. If they use something like Bullet punch you can switch out.

Hope these suggestions helped and good luck with the team.
 
i don't think you need both ice punch and ice shard. if you like swords dance, ice shard, night slash, brick break.
also as delko said, don't use lead dragonite.
also this team is classed as a Hyper Offensive team since it has all sweepers. if you run HO, you need dual screens, most easily from starmie or lead azelf. if you don't want a HO you need a balanced team with tanks, sweepers, walls etc.
 
Excellent team.
I highly suggest you replace Focus Sash for LifeOrb just to hit hard. For example a Draco Meteor from does 48.6% - 57.1% damage to Hippowdon. With LifeOrb it does 62.9% - 74.3% damage to Hippowdon.

You need Stealth Rock you support Scizor's sweeping ability. I suggest you replace Weavile for Bronzong. It does decent job countering Infernape's counters. By the way Infernape isn't weak to Dragon type moves.But Bronzong does counter Dragon type moves well so that's a bonus.
Here's a good set that would support this team well.
252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
0 Spe IV
Sassy
Levitate
Leftovers
~ Stealth Rock
~ Gyro Ball
~ Earthquake
~ Explosion
As you mentioned Dragonite does have trouble against dragon type so this could work. Stealth Rock is a must for you team. Gyro ball to just a STAB and with the terrible speed it holds an amazing power. Earthquake is a decent move to hit Magnezone and such. Explosion does a good job on dealing decent amount of damage on Pokemon such as Suicune. After the Explosion one of your revenge killer can come in and clean up.
If you're really afraid of other lead Dragonites then add another 4 plus speed EV into its speed so you can out speed and kill opposing Dragonites. Evil.XD

Starmie really wants recover.
Try this set
136 HP / 156 Def / 216 Spe
Timid
Leftovers
~ Rapid Spin
~ Surf
~ Thunderbolt
~ Recover
Even without Weavile you've two other Pokemon with an Ice type move. Recover is a better Choice over Ice Beam.

You've a huge hole in your team against Dragon Dance Salamence and Gyarados.
Give a Choice Scarf to Jolteon just so it can clean up Dragon Dance Salamence and Gyarados. Just turn it into a revenge killer.

The Main Force
Infernape@Life Orb
Ability:Blaze
Evs:64 Atk, 252 SpA, 192 Spe
Naive Nature(+Spe, -SpD)
Fire Blast
Hidden Power Ice Vacuum Wave, With Vacuum Wave you can revenge kill Lucario and Such. Jolteon already does a great job at revenge killing Dragon Dance beasts. Not to mention Scizor's Bullet Punch which can finish them off.
Grass Knot
Close Combat

Hidden Power Ice does have its benefits on countering Zapdos. I suggest you replace Jolteon for Gengar to counter Lucario. But it's not a good idea to have 2 pokemon weak to pursuit. But Infernape, Starmie and of course Jolteon out speed Zapdos so no need to worry.
With that EV spread Infernape reaches 330 speed and Zapdos can only reach 328 with max Ev and a positive nature. So Zapdos isn't that much of a threat.

Good Luck.
 
I would like to defend Dragonite as a lead, since it gives excellent offensive momentum, though SR is definitely necessary somewhere. I think this is the optimum set though:

Dragonite @ life orb
-Quiet nature
232atk 252spatk 24spe
-Fire Blast
-Draco Meteor
-Extremespeed
-Superpower

The LO is necessary for a number of 2HKOs, including those on Hippowdon and Swampert. It is well explained here by Legacy Raider. Superpower is an excellent move, however, since Earthquake has pretty redundant lead coverage with Fire Blast. Superpower lets you OHKO Shuca heatran leads and tyranitar leads, both of which can perform well against you otherwise. The 24 spe should let you outrun most lead Metagross, given that very few run 0 Speed.
 
Ok let's look over what we've got so far.

Delko I like the Scizor spread idea, thanks abunch for that^^ and I've never heard of a Mysticgar before either^^;

Nesan, I really don't know about Bronzong, after all regardless of wether or not I keep Dragonite or switch to Aerodactyl chances are neither of them will live long enough to help counter fire threats against both Bronzong and Scizor, not to mention Bronzong is easily tauntable by users of the move, as well as Gyarados. However, I do like what you say about Starmie and Infernape however those sound like great ideas^^

and finally Jc, I like that idea for Dragonite from what your saying Superpower is the better choice.
 
i've gotta admit though this is definitely the most fustrating decision i've ever had to make Keep dragonite and bring in a bulky pokemon for stealth rock, or swap Dragonite for Aerodactyl and find something else entirely to use..
 
Hey, really like your team here.

I just have a few suggestions for your Weavile. Firstly, I see that you're running Brick Break to hit threats such as Tryanitar, Lucario, etc., but Low Kick does more to them and weakened switch-ins such as Heatran and Forretress. Notably, it has a higher percentage of OHKOing standard Lucario and pretty much seals the deal on bulky Tyranitar, which Brick Break cannot guarantee (especially if you lack stealth rock).

Next: It's up to you, but you can drop 40 Evs into HP rather than speed, to outrun base 120s and lower. Only other Weavile and Swellow are the other base 125s you may face, and the latter takes major damage from Ice Shard anyway. I've used Weavile and the extra 10 Hp has sometimes saved me, but it's your choice.

Oh, just read that you are looking for a replacement for Weavile... Well, seeing that you have not found one yet, maybe this can help.
 
Chameleon said:
I just have a few suggestions for your Weavile. Firstly, I see that you're running Brick Break to hit threats such as Tryanitar, Lucario, etc., but Low Kick does more to them and weakened switch-ins such as Heatran and Forretress. Notably, it has a higher percentage of OHKOing standard Lucario and pretty much seals the deal on bulky Tyranitar, which Brick Break cannot guarantee (especially if you lack stealth rock).
Click to expand...

Low Kick might kill them but it doesn't do much to Blissey as Brick Break can.

Oh, just read that you are looking for a replacement for Weavile... Well, seeing that you have not found one yet, maybe this can help.
Click to expand...

Well after reading your advice i've got options.

1.Replace Dragonite with Areodactyl and keep Weavile on the team.
2.Keep Dragonite and replace Weavile with a bulky/fast pokemon that can set up stealth rock, and i've got two choices off the top of my head, Azelf or Mamoswine.
 
Hello!

hmmm... i have a suggestion about jolteon. You should run this set:

EV's: 64Hp 252Spe 192SpA
Nature: Timid
Item: Leftovers
Moveset:

Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Substitute
Wish

This set allows jolt to pass wishes to heal teammates as well as attack, but if your not staisfied with a timid nature, you can go for a modest, but you cant outspeed gyara after a DD which you mentioned gave you trouble and t-bolt will OHKO any variation of Gyara
 
Jolteon's not really a good healer, that's more suited for Umbreon and Vaporeon.

I'm at my wit's end though, even with all the modifications i've made now i'm losing more with this team than I used too, i've been in four matches tonight and i've lost them all horribly because the pokemon like Aero and Scizor are way too predictable as they tell me after they win.--;

Obviously i need to slit my wrists since making a an offensive team is impossible.

Maybe i should start stealing other people's ideas cause i can't do anything right on my own.
 
well, it works for me, but aside from that people say that aero and zor are too predictable then how bout you use a pure attacker azelf lead, i gonna let you decide the moves, but i will reccomend that you will need max speed and atk or SpA (depending on the attacking style), and you could switch scizor for SD lucario who may be predictable, but destroys a hell lotta things. PM me if you need any more help and check out my RMTs for ideas if you want :P HERE ARE THE LINKS: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?
[URL="http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70840"]http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70840
t=70918[/URL]
 
^thanks for the tips.

I apologize for my recent comment and behavior, I don't mind losing provided I at least put up a good fight, but when I start gettign 5 and 6 -0'ed something doesn't add up is all.
 
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