5vs5 Mono-Fire Team
May be a bit tl;dr, eheh. Just skip everything but the introduction (contains info on the rules) if you want. The titles should generally be enough for you to get an idea.
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Introduction
So, looks like I'll be fullfilling the job of Fire type Elite Four on a Dutch Pokémon Forum. Oh yay, one of the worst mono-team types in the game! Making a good mono-type team is already pretty hard, but mono-Fire teams are probably amongst the hardest. Not a single Fire type resists Rock, Water, or the Ground/Rock combo. Nearly every Fire type has got a Stealth Rock weakness and their movepools tend to be miniscule. Also, the only OU Fire types are probably Infernape and Heatran. Looks like a challenge to me. o_o
Several special rules apply to this League, but only one matters for this RMT. Since I'm in the E4, my matches will be played in 5vs5, on Wi-Fi. The challengers won't be allowed to change their teams to make beating the Gym Leader easy (in other words, I won't be likely to face anti-Fire teams and encoutering Fire types isn't an impossibility). The tier is OU. Please keep this in mind when rating.
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Why mono-Fire teams just suck (threats to Fire teams)
Before starting, I decided it wouldn't be a bad idea to look what the obvious threats to a mono-Fire team would be. Earthquakers, particulary the faster ones, probably pose the biggest threats (yes, I'm talking about Garchoomp). But Stealth Rock, Water types like Milotic and Rock types like Tyranitar shouldn't be overlooked either. I compiled a list with counters to these Pokémon and moves to make everything a bit easier.
Stealth Rock
Clearly, this is taken care of by Rapid Spin. Sadly, the only Fire Pokémon to get Rapid Spin appears to be Torkoal. He scares away Skarmory and Forretress, but Swampert (among the biggest threats to my team) will have a great time with him. Also, I don't think Skarmory of Forretress will be able to even set up the Rocks. Celebi won't be able to stay in for a long time either. Pretty much everything in my team can KO them. Adding in Torkoal wouldn't be benefitting me a lot. Preventing my opponent from setting up Stealth Rock is a priority though.
Countering: Just prevent it from coming into play. Rapid Spin isn't much of an option here.
Earthquake
This looks like it wouldn't be too hard to handle, but only three Fire types can actually switch in on this (one of them being Ho-Oh so that one can be scratched off the list). Moltres and Charizard are immune and as such, I'll be forced to add at least one of these to my team. The problem is though, that neither of them outspeed the most common Earthquaker, Garchomp. And he'll just Stone Edge them to death. After that he can kill a Pokémon every time he switches in. Scarfing them is the only way to get around this, and Moltres is a lot more effective with a Scarf due to its higher Special Attack.
Countering: Moltres or Charizard is everything the 16 Pokémon long list of fully evolved Fire types has to offer when it comes to Earthquake immunities. Will-O-Wisp also helps a lot.
Stone Edge
It should be clear that the only way for a mono-Fire team to beat the pretty common QuakeEdge combo is predicting the Earthquake and switching in Moltres for the KO. However, this will only work once against good players, who will predict the switch-in the second time. And not a single Fire type resists Stone Edge. Not a single one. Those that are neutral and can take a hit, are KO'ed by Earthquake rather easily. Of course, I can switch in my Flier on the Earthquake, provided my opponent doesn't predict the switch. There isn't a reliable way to deal with this, but I should at least add in a Pokémon or two that can take a Stone Edge.
Countering: Prediction, and a sturdy Fire type. That would be Heatran. Will-O-Wisp again.
Dragons (Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, etc.)
I have a feeling that I will face these guys a lot. And that's not cool. One of them happens to have STAB Earthquake and often runs Stone Edge; yippee. Generally, the most important thing is to outspeed them and disable them. Hidden Power [Ice] would seem an obvious way to "counter" (a word that I shouldn't use here, since nearly every Fire type is too fragile to switch in on anything) them. However, if I were to rely on that, I might as well just give up if one of them happens to have a Yache Berry. It would generally be better to Sleep or Burn them to avoid this situation. These guys are a huge pain and will be very challenging to beat.
Countering: Ouch. Generally, status will disable them. A (fast) Hidden Power [Ice] or two will also benefit me a lot but can be stopped with Yache Berry, more likely than not causing me to lose the game.
Waters (Swampert, Milotic, Vaporeon) and their moves
But as if the Dragons don't disable mono-Fire teams enough already, Water types are a pain too. Swampert, with his STAB Earthquake, would seem the biggest threat. However, nearly every Grass attack OHKOes him, unlike Milotic and Vaporeon. These two will be rather challenging, especially considering they hit every Fire Pokémon Super Effective with their STAB Water moves. Luckily, this weakness can be nullified by Sunny Day (which also happens to boost my STAB moves and allows me to use Solarbeam).
Countering: Sunny Day, Solarbeam and Grass Knots will help. Solid switch-ins are out of the question though.
Fire types can't take hits
With the exception of Heatran, any Super Effective hit (and those aren't uncommon) will take them down. And even Heatran is OHKOed by every Earthquake not coming off Shuckle. There's always the Flying type to handle this, but still, this will be a major problem. Also, the Flying types are predictable and they take 50% from Stealth Rock. Their fragileness makes countering by the definition used on Smogon pretty much impossible. I'll have to resort to heavy damage and, for the biggest threats, status.
Countering: Heatran is the only Fire type who can take hits (excluding Ho-Oh, that is) and actually do something besides dying to Earthquake.
Sandstorm Teams (Tyranitar mostly)
The threat that is Water type Pokémon pretty much forces me to use Sunny Day. Tyranitar will pose a large threat for sure. He can easily take most Fire moves, can finish off everything that is chargin its Solarbeam when I mispredict, or Dragon Dance up and crush my entire team. When Tyranitar is spotted, this forces me to do everything I can to take it down. Fighting moves are the best way.
Countering: Just like the Sandstorm can nullify Sunny Day, Sunny Day can nullify Sandstorm. After that, I must do everything I can to prevent Tyranitar or Hippowdon from coming in. This will require a lot of prediction.
Inability to force lots of switches
Even though it is still possible, with nearly every Water type countering my Pokémon and most of my Pokémon being weak to the same types, I can't really rely on my opponent switching. They usually won't have to. As such, I can't really use stat-uppers.
Countering: Mixed sweepers do a decent job. Status, particulary Sleep, also helps. However, it's impossible to really counter this and I'll have to rely on prediction.
To sum it all up, this is a checklist of what I'll need.
- Charizard / Moltres
- Preventing Stealth Rock
- A bulky Pokémon that can take Stone Edges
- Sunny Day (without relying on it too much, which causes me to lose against Tyranitar)
- Satus like Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis
- Moves to hit Water types, like Grass Knot and Solarbeam.
Also, a few U-Turns to ease the incredible amount of prediction that will be needed wouldn't hurt either.
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The team
This is where it gets tricky. Six Pokémon need to be picked so that I can (attempt to) counter these threats. That is pretty much what my entire team is about. Below are my picks, but I'm not overly sure on them. If anyone could help me with this; thanks a LOT. When multiple options are given, the underlined moves are the ones I am currently planning on using.
Infernape @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Nature: Naïve
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 6 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed / 24 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 232 Speed
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Mainly in the lead to stop Stealth Rock from being set up. I'm going to need the power of Fire Blast to OHKO the likes of Bronzong (most versions, that is) and Skarmory who usually carry Stealth Rock. Grass Knot also destroys Swampert and hurts most Water type switch-ins. Close Combat is for obvious reasons, crushing Blissey and the like.
A key member of this team. This is my main answer to Tyranitar, and that's actually pretty sad, but oh well. It also outspeeds and OHKOes Yache Berry-less 6/0 EVed Garchomps, Dragonites and Salamences.
[UPD] The first spread is mainly for beating opposing Infernapes, but maybe I don't need that. Tangerine suggested using a Choice Specs set, and I like the idea a lot. Basically, it would just be this set with a Choice Specs. I'll stick to that for now. =)
[UPD2] Replaced Fire Blast for Flamethrower for the Specs set.
So, that's the first Earthquake weakness. I've mentioned the need for a Flying Pokémon several times by now, and here it is.
Moltres @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
~ Fire Blast / Overheat
~ Solarbeam
~ Hidden Power [Ice] / Air Slash / Hidden Power [Electric]
~ U-Turn / Hidden Power [Electric]
The mighty phoenix that takes 50% from Stealth Rock (what the hell were you thinking, GameFreak o_ò). Happens to be an old favourite as well. Fire Blast is a 2HKO on Blissey when the sun is shining, whereas Overheat doesn't require Sunny Day to be devastating. The need for switches when using Overheat isn't a good idea though, taking Stealth Rock into consideration.
Switches in on Garchomps and kills them with Hidden Power [Ice]. I would much rather use Hidden Power [Grass] than Solarbeam, but if I would every Dragon or Gyarados (yep, it's one or the other) would have a great time running through my team.
Of course, Sunny Day support is needed. I need a Bulky Pokémon as well; those two can easily be combined. The most bulky Fire type is probably Heatran, so I'll be using that one.
Heatran @ Hot Rock / Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP, 178 Special Attack, 80 Defense
~ Sunny Day
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Lava Plume
I am definitely not sure on the EV-spread, but it looks ok. It should garuantee that a Jolly Life Orb Garchomp's Stone Edge is a 3HKO at most. Even though Hot Rock will probably prove more useful than Leftovers since it's needed for the Solarbeamers and the Water weaknesses, I may use Leftovers to add a bit of durability.
Even though one attacking move seems like a bad idea, this is what I'll probably be needing. Since this is my only switch-in into Stone Edges, I need him to be as sturdy as possible. Since this is my most sturdy Pokémon this is probably the best choice for Sunny Day. Lava Plume burns stuff. Earthquakers become slightly less threatening that way.
Also, I need to watch out with this one. Swampert says "oh hai stealth rock lol ^____^" and that may very well equal "gg".
At this point, I lack reliable fast status, something I really need in this team. Rapidash is capable of dishing out Burns, Sleep, and outspeeds the Dragons with it's 105 Base Speed. Too bad it can't really do much damage. I may replace it with Ninetales (who is much cooler too, in my opinion) who also boasts Energy Ball for them Grasses. It doesn't outspeed most Dragons though. And, looking at the threat list, the quick status is a must.
Rapidash @ Wide Lens
Nature: Naughty / Jolly
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 Special Attack, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
~ Will-o-Wisp
~ Hypnosis
~ Flare Blitz
~ SolarBeam / Baton Pass
Disabling as many of my opponent's Pokémon is a key objective when using this team, since I can't really rely on type coverage or walls. Status is a reliable way of doing so. With my entire team scaring off most common Spikers (and fearing those that aren't scared) and having Sunny Day around, Focus Sash may prove useful at times. Will-o-Wisp significally weakens Physical Sweepers like Garchomp, where Hypnosis completely disables them. SolarBeam would prevent Swampert from setting up (provided Sunny Day is in play), whereas Baton Pass lets me switch to something like Infernape as Swampert switches in. I'll need to predict the switch-in, but on the other hand, I can take care of him without worrying about the sun.
Please note that without this guy, I won't be able to outspeed Dragons and put them to Sleep. Replacing isn't that much of an option.
And that leaves one slot. I only have one Sunny Day user, so a second one wouldn't hurt. Also, I could use another way to absorb Earthquakes. There's a problem though. Stealth Rock. And that's why the next member is rather questionable.
Charizard @ Salac Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Attack, 6 Defense, 252 Speed [30 HP IV]
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Belly Drum
This replaces my old Special Zard. Your basic BellyZard. Comes in on Earthquakes, sets up, sweeps stuff. Helps with Heatran and Special Walls too. Fire Punch, especially in the sun, is very powerful when Blaze and Belly Drum are activated. Earthquake covers most of what Fire Punch doesn't and it's also of great benefit to this team. Adamant just packs that extra bit of power needed to OHKO Salamence and Garchomp, so Jolly isn't much of an option.
This is the old Charizard.
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Possible Replacements and other considerations
I'm considering replacing Rapidash with Ninetales. The 5 Base Speed makes all the difference though. It would do pretty well as a lead, crippling Gyarados with Will-o-Wisp (who fails to OHKO with Waterfall) and can also Hypnosis. The main advantage would probably be actually stopping Gyarados, as opposed to Infernape, whilst maintaining the ability to prevent Stealth Rock from being set up. Thanks for bringing all this to my attention, everyone.
Magmortar, with his Thunderbolt / Cross Chop / Earthquake / Focus Blast / much more, also comes to mind...
Other interesting ideas I found:
- Grudge Ninetales
May be a bit too gimmicky for 5vs5, but it sounds very interesting considering the same moves hit most of my team Super Effective.
- Bulky / PP Stall Moltres.
Would help me for the most part, but makes my team a Garchomp snack as soon as Infernape is taken out or if it has a Yache Berry.
- Taunt Heatran
G'bye Stealth Rock. It leaves me without a reliable Stone Edge switch-in though.
- Add in a Torkoal after all.
Still not that great of an option though... Probably. I'll have to test it out.
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Problems
- Special Walls
Even though Charizard has some Wall breaking potentional, Infernape is my only reliable way to get around them. Blissey is usually 2HKOed by a Sunny Day Fire Blast from Moltres, so she is slightly less of a problem. Thick Fat Snorlax however, can wall everything but Infernape.
- Gyarados
Ouch. I simply can't stop it once it gets off a Dragon Dance. Using Hidden Power [Electric] on Moltres would help me with this... But it would make the (slightly more common) Dragons much more troublesome.
- Heatran
Ironically, it walls near everything in my team and can comfortably switch in on most of my attacks. If it happens to be a Resttalker, I lose. That's it. I just lose. And I see little room for Hidden Power [Grounds], too. =/
- Everything listed at the beginning of this post.
Meaning Stealth Rock, Dragons, Water types, and all that.
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Threat List
Please keep in mind that switching stuff in is rarely an option, given the fragileness of Fire types. Everything listed here is not a true counter, but more of a strategy to take them down. I won't be able to do so with counters;if someone knows how to counter every Pokémon in the metagame with only Fire types, cookie for you.
Tyranitar - Oh yay. This just crushes most of my team. I need Infernape to revenge-kill it or set up Sunny Day behind a Sub and severely damage it with Solarbeam using Charizard. Other than that, statusing it is my main "counter".
Charizard can come in on Choiced Earthquakes aimed for Heatran and set-up.
Gyarados - Don't get me started. Yeah, this is a major pain and my reason for considering Hidden Power [Electric] on Moltres. Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis (especially the latter) shut it down, and I can do quite a lot of damage... But it's garuanteed to take out a few of my Pokémon.
Infernape - Moltres resists a lot of its attacks. Infernape outspeeds the ones with Attack EVs and can probably KO them with Close Combat, especially if they have already used that move. Rapidash outspeeds non-Scarf versions and puts them to sleep.
Azelf - Gets outsped and killed by Moltres if it isn't Scarfed, and Heatran can try to take it on if it is. Once again, prediction is key.
Electivire - Outspeed it and KO it. It hits everything in my team for Super Effective damage, but it won't be taking more than two STAB Fire moves. Or any at all if the Sun is up.
Heracross - Most of my Pokémon outspeed it and can KO it with ease. Moltres is a possible switch-in but won't be taking a lot of attacks.
Salamence - Random Ice type-Hidden Powers can damage it. Heatran can at least switch in on some attacks, allowing it to set up Sunny Day or Moltres to come in on the Earthquake for the KO.
Togekiss - Heatran stops most Aura Sphere-less versions, and Moltres can kind of wall most versions. It depends on the set. It's high Special Defense and resistance to Fighting make this guy a bit troublesome, but I can take it down.
Gengar - Heatran can handle it. Probably. Focus Blast will do lots of damage, but I can switch Moltres in on them. Moltres also happens to outspeed those without a Choice Scarf and kan easily KO. Choice Scarf versions can be outpredicted.
Garchomp - My main strategy is to use Heatran to take Stone Edges and Moltres to take the Earthquakes and KO. When something dies to it, I can switch in Rapidash and sleep or burn it. Charizard uses Choiced Earthquakes to set up.
Lucario - Pretty dangerous once it gets an SD off, but everything in my team can take it down in one hit. I have to make sure it doesn't get the SD off though, especially with Stealth Rock up.
Starmie - When Sunny Day is up, most of Pokémon can KO it. Moltres outspeeds and takes it down with SolarBeam. Heatran can switch in but can't do much back.
Weavile - Everything on my team KOes it. Other than that, prediction is key once again. Even though it's weak to all of my STAB moves, it can still do quite a bit of damage.
Dugtrio - Makes me sad. T-T
However, Charizard may be able to switch in on Choiced versions after Earthquake has killed something, set up a Substitute and win. =D
PorygonZ - Heatran stops some of them, Moltres outspeeds and probably kills it. Infernape outspeeds it and easily takes it down with Close Combat. Rapidash can also shut it down.
Machamp - Kind of troublesome, especially Resttalk versions. It won't be taking that many hits though.
Snorlax - Infernape doesn't like Body Slam or Earthquake, but can OHKO. In Sunny Day, I can do quite a bit of damage to Immunity versions, but sadly those aren't very common. To say the least, this guy is troublesome.
But a lot less troublesome with BellyZard. =D
Zapdos - Hm, troublesome. Heatran can probably handle it if it doesn't carry Choice Specs. Rapidash outspeeds and statuses though.
Suicune - Won't be liking Solarbeams. Will be liking random Fire moves. Can and probably will get troublesome if the Sun isn't up.
Breloom - Most of my team outspeeds it and takes it down with powerful Fire moves.
Metagross - Won't last very long, but can do some damage.
Heatran - Owns me. Hard. Very, very hard.
With the addition of Earthquakeing BellyZard, this becomes somewhat less of a problem. =D
Jirachi - Calm Mind versions are the only ones that won't go down extremely easy. But they still won't be taking a lot of Fire Blasts.
Dragonite - Handled the same way as Salamence. Status it, hit it with Hidden Power [Ice], you know the drill.
Mamoswine - Has the potentional to do some damage, but generally it won't be taking a lot of moves and can get statused.
Choiced Earthquakes from versions once again make this set-up bait for Charizard.
Gallade - Somewhat troublesome. When Sunny Day is set up it becomes pretty easy to KO, and I can status it.
Yanmega - Moltres and Heatran handle them depending on their Hidden Power.
Kingdra - A personal favourite. He also happens to be the biggest threat to my team and means 5-0.
Roserade - Toasted.
Scizor - Toasted even harder.
I'll check how hard he can hit Charizard after an SD, but I may actually be able to set up on Baton Passing variants.
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Yes, I know I have a slight Dugtrio weak. Anyway, rate away, and thanks in advance! I'm not the best team-builder around and I've probably missed a lot of better options. =)
May be a bit tl;dr, eheh. Just skip everything but the introduction (contains info on the rules) if you want. The titles should generally be enough for you to get an idea.
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Introduction
So, looks like I'll be fullfilling the job of Fire type Elite Four on a Dutch Pokémon Forum. Oh yay, one of the worst mono-team types in the game! Making a good mono-type team is already pretty hard, but mono-Fire teams are probably amongst the hardest. Not a single Fire type resists Rock, Water, or the Ground/Rock combo. Nearly every Fire type has got a Stealth Rock weakness and their movepools tend to be miniscule. Also, the only OU Fire types are probably Infernape and Heatran. Looks like a challenge to me. o_o
Several special rules apply to this League, but only one matters for this RMT. Since I'm in the E4, my matches will be played in 5vs5, on Wi-Fi. The challengers won't be allowed to change their teams to make beating the Gym Leader easy (in other words, I won't be likely to face anti-Fire teams and encoutering Fire types isn't an impossibility). The tier is OU. Please keep this in mind when rating.
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Why mono-Fire teams just suck (threats to Fire teams)
Before starting, I decided it wouldn't be a bad idea to look what the obvious threats to a mono-Fire team would be. Earthquakers, particulary the faster ones, probably pose the biggest threats (yes, I'm talking about Garchoomp). But Stealth Rock, Water types like Milotic and Rock types like Tyranitar shouldn't be overlooked either. I compiled a list with counters to these Pokémon and moves to make everything a bit easier.
Stealth Rock
Clearly, this is taken care of by Rapid Spin. Sadly, the only Fire Pokémon to get Rapid Spin appears to be Torkoal. He scares away Skarmory and Forretress, but Swampert (among the biggest threats to my team) will have a great time with him. Also, I don't think Skarmory of Forretress will be able to even set up the Rocks. Celebi won't be able to stay in for a long time either. Pretty much everything in my team can KO them. Adding in Torkoal wouldn't be benefitting me a lot. Preventing my opponent from setting up Stealth Rock is a priority though.
Countering: Just prevent it from coming into play. Rapid Spin isn't much of an option here.
Earthquake
This looks like it wouldn't be too hard to handle, but only three Fire types can actually switch in on this (one of them being Ho-Oh so that one can be scratched off the list). Moltres and Charizard are immune and as such, I'll be forced to add at least one of these to my team. The problem is though, that neither of them outspeed the most common Earthquaker, Garchomp. And he'll just Stone Edge them to death. After that he can kill a Pokémon every time he switches in. Scarfing them is the only way to get around this, and Moltres is a lot more effective with a Scarf due to its higher Special Attack.
Countering: Moltres or Charizard is everything the 16 Pokémon long list of fully evolved Fire types has to offer when it comes to Earthquake immunities. Will-O-Wisp also helps a lot.
Stone Edge
It should be clear that the only way for a mono-Fire team to beat the pretty common QuakeEdge combo is predicting the Earthquake and switching in Moltres for the KO. However, this will only work once against good players, who will predict the switch-in the second time. And not a single Fire type resists Stone Edge. Not a single one. Those that are neutral and can take a hit, are KO'ed by Earthquake rather easily. Of course, I can switch in my Flier on the Earthquake, provided my opponent doesn't predict the switch. There isn't a reliable way to deal with this, but I should at least add in a Pokémon or two that can take a Stone Edge.
Countering: Prediction, and a sturdy Fire type. That would be Heatran. Will-O-Wisp again.
Dragons (Garchomp, Salamence, Dragonite, etc.)
I have a feeling that I will face these guys a lot. And that's not cool. One of them happens to have STAB Earthquake and often runs Stone Edge; yippee. Generally, the most important thing is to outspeed them and disable them. Hidden Power [Ice] would seem an obvious way to "counter" (a word that I shouldn't use here, since nearly every Fire type is too fragile to switch in on anything) them. However, if I were to rely on that, I might as well just give up if one of them happens to have a Yache Berry. It would generally be better to Sleep or Burn them to avoid this situation. These guys are a huge pain and will be very challenging to beat.
Countering: Ouch. Generally, status will disable them. A (fast) Hidden Power [Ice] or two will also benefit me a lot but can be stopped with Yache Berry, more likely than not causing me to lose the game.
Waters (Swampert, Milotic, Vaporeon) and their moves
But as if the Dragons don't disable mono-Fire teams enough already, Water types are a pain too. Swampert, with his STAB Earthquake, would seem the biggest threat. However, nearly every Grass attack OHKOes him, unlike Milotic and Vaporeon. These two will be rather challenging, especially considering they hit every Fire Pokémon Super Effective with their STAB Water moves. Luckily, this weakness can be nullified by Sunny Day (which also happens to boost my STAB moves and allows me to use Solarbeam).
Countering: Sunny Day, Solarbeam and Grass Knots will help. Solid switch-ins are out of the question though.
Fire types can't take hits
With the exception of Heatran, any Super Effective hit (and those aren't uncommon) will take them down. And even Heatran is OHKOed by every Earthquake not coming off Shuckle. There's always the Flying type to handle this, but still, this will be a major problem. Also, the Flying types are predictable and they take 50% from Stealth Rock. Their fragileness makes countering by the definition used on Smogon pretty much impossible. I'll have to resort to heavy damage and, for the biggest threats, status.
Countering: Heatran is the only Fire type who can take hits (excluding Ho-Oh, that is) and actually do something besides dying to Earthquake.
Sandstorm Teams (Tyranitar mostly)
The threat that is Water type Pokémon pretty much forces me to use Sunny Day. Tyranitar will pose a large threat for sure. He can easily take most Fire moves, can finish off everything that is chargin its Solarbeam when I mispredict, or Dragon Dance up and crush my entire team. When Tyranitar is spotted, this forces me to do everything I can to take it down. Fighting moves are the best way.
Countering: Just like the Sandstorm can nullify Sunny Day, Sunny Day can nullify Sandstorm. After that, I must do everything I can to prevent Tyranitar or Hippowdon from coming in. This will require a lot of prediction.
Inability to force lots of switches
Even though it is still possible, with nearly every Water type countering my Pokémon and most of my Pokémon being weak to the same types, I can't really rely on my opponent switching. They usually won't have to. As such, I can't really use stat-uppers.
Countering: Mixed sweepers do a decent job. Status, particulary Sleep, also helps. However, it's impossible to really counter this and I'll have to rely on prediction.
To sum it all up, this is a checklist of what I'll need.
- Charizard / Moltres
- Preventing Stealth Rock
- A bulky Pokémon that can take Stone Edges
- Sunny Day (without relying on it too much, which causes me to lose against Tyranitar)
- Satus like Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis
- Moves to hit Water types, like Grass Knot and Solarbeam.
Also, a few U-Turns to ease the incredible amount of prediction that will be needed wouldn't hurt either.
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The team
This is where it gets tricky. Six Pokémon need to be picked so that I can (attempt to) counter these threats. That is pretty much what my entire team is about. Below are my picks, but I'm not overly sure on them. If anyone could help me with this; thanks a LOT. When multiple options are given, the underlined moves are the ones I am currently planning on using.
Infernape @ Life Orb / Choice Specs
Nature: Naïve
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 6 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed / 24 Attack, 252 Special Attack, 232 Speed
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast / Flamethrower
Mainly in the lead to stop Stealth Rock from being set up. I'm going to need the power of Fire Blast to OHKO the likes of Bronzong (most versions, that is) and Skarmory who usually carry Stealth Rock. Grass Knot also destroys Swampert and hurts most Water type switch-ins. Close Combat is for obvious reasons, crushing Blissey and the like.
A key member of this team. This is my main answer to Tyranitar, and that's actually pretty sad, but oh well. It also outspeeds and OHKOes Yache Berry-less 6/0 EVed Garchomps, Dragonites and Salamences.
[UPD] The first spread is mainly for beating opposing Infernapes, but maybe I don't need that. Tangerine suggested using a Choice Specs set, and I like the idea a lot. Basically, it would just be this set with a Choice Specs. I'll stick to that for now. =)
[UPD2] Replaced Fire Blast for Flamethrower for the Specs set.
So, that's the first Earthquake weakness. I've mentioned the need for a Flying Pokémon several times by now, and here it is.
Moltres @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Timid
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 6 HP, 252 Special Attack, 252 Speed
~ Fire Blast / Overheat
~ Solarbeam
~ Hidden Power [Ice] / Air Slash / Hidden Power [Electric]
~ U-Turn / Hidden Power [Electric]
The mighty phoenix that takes 50% from Stealth Rock (what the hell were you thinking, GameFreak o_ò). Happens to be an old favourite as well. Fire Blast is a 2HKO on Blissey when the sun is shining, whereas Overheat doesn't require Sunny Day to be devastating. The need for switches when using Overheat isn't a good idea though, taking Stealth Rock into consideration.
Switches in on Garchomps and kills them with Hidden Power [Ice]. I would much rather use Hidden Power [Grass] than Solarbeam, but if I would every Dragon or Gyarados (yep, it's one or the other) would have a great time running through my team.
Of course, Sunny Day support is needed. I need a Bulky Pokémon as well; those two can easily be combined. The most bulky Fire type is probably Heatran, so I'll be using that one.
Heatran @ Hot Rock / Leftovers
Nature: Modest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP, 178 Special Attack, 80 Defense
~ Sunny Day
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Lava Plume
I am definitely not sure on the EV-spread, but it looks ok. It should garuantee that a Jolly Life Orb Garchomp's Stone Edge is a 3HKO at most. Even though Hot Rock will probably prove more useful than Leftovers since it's needed for the Solarbeamers and the Water weaknesses, I may use Leftovers to add a bit of durability.
Even though one attacking move seems like a bad idea, this is what I'll probably be needing. Since this is my only switch-in into Stone Edges, I need him to be as sturdy as possible. Since this is my most sturdy Pokémon this is probably the best choice for Sunny Day. Lava Plume burns stuff. Earthquakers become slightly less threatening that way.
Also, I need to watch out with this one. Swampert says "oh hai stealth rock lol ^____^" and that may very well equal "gg".
At this point, I lack reliable fast status, something I really need in this team. Rapidash is capable of dishing out Burns, Sleep, and outspeeds the Dragons with it's 105 Base Speed. Too bad it can't really do much damage. I may replace it with Ninetales (who is much cooler too, in my opinion) who also boasts Energy Ball for them Grasses. It doesn't outspeed most Dragons though. And, looking at the threat list, the quick status is a must.
Rapidash @ Wide Lens
Nature: Naughty / Jolly
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 6 Special Attack, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
~ Will-o-Wisp
~ Hypnosis
~ Flare Blitz
~ SolarBeam / Baton Pass
Disabling as many of my opponent's Pokémon is a key objective when using this team, since I can't really rely on type coverage or walls. Status is a reliable way of doing so. With my entire team scaring off most common Spikers (and fearing those that aren't scared) and having Sunny Day around, Focus Sash may prove useful at times. Will-o-Wisp significally weakens Physical Sweepers like Garchomp, where Hypnosis completely disables them. SolarBeam would prevent Swampert from setting up (provided Sunny Day is in play), whereas Baton Pass lets me switch to something like Infernape as Swampert switches in. I'll need to predict the switch-in, but on the other hand, I can take care of him without worrying about the sun.
Please note that without this guy, I won't be able to outspeed Dragons and put them to Sleep. Replacing isn't that much of an option.
And that leaves one slot. I only have one Sunny Day user, so a second one wouldn't hurt. Also, I could use another way to absorb Earthquakes. There's a problem though. Stealth Rock. And that's why the next member is rather questionable.
Charizard @ Salac Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Attack, 6 Defense, 252 Speed [30 HP IV]
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch
- Belly Drum
This replaces my old Special Zard. Your basic BellyZard. Comes in on Earthquakes, sets up, sweeps stuff. Helps with Heatran and Special Walls too. Fire Punch, especially in the sun, is very powerful when Blaze and Belly Drum are activated. Earthquake covers most of what Fire Punch doesn't and it's also of great benefit to this team. Adamant just packs that extra bit of power needed to OHKO Salamence and Garchomp, so Jolly isn't much of an option.
This is the old Charizard.
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Possible Replacements and other considerations
I'm considering replacing Rapidash with Ninetales. The 5 Base Speed makes all the difference though. It would do pretty well as a lead, crippling Gyarados with Will-o-Wisp (who fails to OHKO with Waterfall) and can also Hypnosis. The main advantage would probably be actually stopping Gyarados, as opposed to Infernape, whilst maintaining the ability to prevent Stealth Rock from being set up. Thanks for bringing all this to my attention, everyone.
Magmortar, with his Thunderbolt / Cross Chop / Earthquake / Focus Blast / much more, also comes to mind...
Other interesting ideas I found:
- Grudge Ninetales
May be a bit too gimmicky for 5vs5, but it sounds very interesting considering the same moves hit most of my team Super Effective.
- Bulky / PP Stall Moltres.
Would help me for the most part, but makes my team a Garchomp snack as soon as Infernape is taken out or if it has a Yache Berry.
- Taunt Heatran
G'bye Stealth Rock. It leaves me without a reliable Stone Edge switch-in though.
- Add in a Torkoal after all.
Still not that great of an option though... Probably. I'll have to test it out.
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Problems
- Special Walls
Even though Charizard has some Wall breaking potentional, Infernape is my only reliable way to get around them. Blissey is usually 2HKOed by a Sunny Day Fire Blast from Moltres, so she is slightly less of a problem. Thick Fat Snorlax however, can wall everything but Infernape.
- Gyarados
Ouch. I simply can't stop it once it gets off a Dragon Dance. Using Hidden Power [Electric] on Moltres would help me with this... But it would make the (slightly more common) Dragons much more troublesome.
- Heatran
Ironically, it walls near everything in my team and can comfortably switch in on most of my attacks. If it happens to be a Resttalker, I lose. That's it. I just lose. And I see little room for Hidden Power [Grounds], too. =/
- Everything listed at the beginning of this post.
Meaning Stealth Rock, Dragons, Water types, and all that.
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Threat List
Please keep in mind that switching stuff in is rarely an option, given the fragileness of Fire types. Everything listed here is not a true counter, but more of a strategy to take them down. I won't be able to do so with counters;if someone knows how to counter every Pokémon in the metagame with only Fire types, cookie for you.
Tyranitar - Oh yay. This just crushes most of my team. I need Infernape to revenge-kill it or set up Sunny Day behind a Sub and severely damage it with Solarbeam using Charizard. Other than that, statusing it is my main "counter".
Charizard can come in on Choiced Earthquakes aimed for Heatran and set-up.
Gyarados - Don't get me started. Yeah, this is a major pain and my reason for considering Hidden Power [Electric] on Moltres. Will-O-Wisp and Hypnosis (especially the latter) shut it down, and I can do quite a lot of damage... But it's garuanteed to take out a few of my Pokémon.
Infernape - Moltres resists a lot of its attacks. Infernape outspeeds the ones with Attack EVs and can probably KO them with Close Combat, especially if they have already used that move. Rapidash outspeeds non-Scarf versions and puts them to sleep.
Azelf - Gets outsped and killed by Moltres if it isn't Scarfed, and Heatran can try to take it on if it is. Once again, prediction is key.
Electivire - Outspeed it and KO it. It hits everything in my team for Super Effective damage, but it won't be taking more than two STAB Fire moves. Or any at all if the Sun is up.
Heracross - Most of my Pokémon outspeed it and can KO it with ease. Moltres is a possible switch-in but won't be taking a lot of attacks.
Salamence - Random Ice type-Hidden Powers can damage it. Heatran can at least switch in on some attacks, allowing it to set up Sunny Day or Moltres to come in on the Earthquake for the KO.
Togekiss - Heatran stops most Aura Sphere-less versions, and Moltres can kind of wall most versions. It depends on the set. It's high Special Defense and resistance to Fighting make this guy a bit troublesome, but I can take it down.
Gengar - Heatran can handle it. Probably. Focus Blast will do lots of damage, but I can switch Moltres in on them. Moltres also happens to outspeed those without a Choice Scarf and kan easily KO. Choice Scarf versions can be outpredicted.
Garchomp - My main strategy is to use Heatran to take Stone Edges and Moltres to take the Earthquakes and KO. When something dies to it, I can switch in Rapidash and sleep or burn it. Charizard uses Choiced Earthquakes to set up.
Lucario - Pretty dangerous once it gets an SD off, but everything in my team can take it down in one hit. I have to make sure it doesn't get the SD off though, especially with Stealth Rock up.
Starmie - When Sunny Day is up, most of Pokémon can KO it. Moltres outspeeds and takes it down with SolarBeam. Heatran can switch in but can't do much back.
Weavile - Everything on my team KOes it. Other than that, prediction is key once again. Even though it's weak to all of my STAB moves, it can still do quite a bit of damage.
Dugtrio - Makes me sad. T-T
However, Charizard may be able to switch in on Choiced versions after Earthquake has killed something, set up a Substitute and win. =D
PorygonZ - Heatran stops some of them, Moltres outspeeds and probably kills it. Infernape outspeeds it and easily takes it down with Close Combat. Rapidash can also shut it down.
Machamp - Kind of troublesome, especially Resttalk versions. It won't be taking that many hits though.
Snorlax - Infernape doesn't like Body Slam or Earthquake, but can OHKO. In Sunny Day, I can do quite a bit of damage to Immunity versions, but sadly those aren't very common. To say the least, this guy is troublesome.
But a lot less troublesome with BellyZard. =D
Zapdos - Hm, troublesome. Heatran can probably handle it if it doesn't carry Choice Specs. Rapidash outspeeds and statuses though.
Suicune - Won't be liking Solarbeams. Will be liking random Fire moves. Can and probably will get troublesome if the Sun isn't up.
Breloom - Most of my team outspeeds it and takes it down with powerful Fire moves.
Metagross - Won't last very long, but can do some damage.
Heatran - Owns me. Hard. Very, very hard.
With the addition of Earthquakeing BellyZard, this becomes somewhat less of a problem. =D
Jirachi - Calm Mind versions are the only ones that won't go down extremely easy. But they still won't be taking a lot of Fire Blasts.
Dragonite - Handled the same way as Salamence. Status it, hit it with Hidden Power [Ice], you know the drill.
Mamoswine - Has the potentional to do some damage, but generally it won't be taking a lot of moves and can get statused.
Choiced Earthquakes from versions once again make this set-up bait for Charizard.
Gallade - Somewhat troublesome. When Sunny Day is set up it becomes pretty easy to KO, and I can status it.
Yanmega - Moltres and Heatran handle them depending on their Hidden Power.
Kingdra - A personal favourite. He also happens to be the biggest threat to my team and means 5-0.
Roserade - Toasted.
Scizor - Toasted even harder.
I'll check how hard he can hit Charizard after an SD, but I may actually be able to set up on Baton Passing variants.
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Yes, I know I have a slight Dugtrio weak. Anyway, rate away, and thanks in advance! I'm not the best team-builder around and I've probably missed a lot of better options. =)
