Pet Mod [Gen 3] Hoenn Echoes | Slate 1 Submissions now open!

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Welcome to Hoenn Echoes, a pet mod based around Generation 3 Ubers! The primary goal of this pet mod is to try and keep the core gameplay of Gen 3 Ubers, but to both give it a twist and attempt to lessen the impact RNG has on the game. Users will submit their ideas on how to retool Pokemon within this tier's context to make them more usable, or to add entirely new things to the tier. The mod will run for about 10-15 slates.

Council:
:litwick: qsns
:scizor: Xrn
:lurantis: SEA

Because the tier is based on Gen 3 Ubers, the mod will use Gen 3 mechanics unless explicitly stated otherwise. There have been some RNG elements changed, which can be found in the spreadsheet here. Since the goal of the mod is to attempt to keep it close-ish to the original tier, submissions will have to adhere to the metagame's pre-existing power level and not disrupt the balance already in place.

The slates for submission will be based on different parts of the existing metagame, i.e. a slate based on Sun, a slate based on adding new items, or a slate based on Rock-types.

The submission rules and guidelines are as follows:

- Each user can submit up to 3 entities for the given slate.

- The submission must list some checks/counters (or in the case of items, worthwhile alternatives) using tools already existent (and good) in the tier, as to ensure something doesn't go completely unanswered if it is added.

- We want the mod to still feel like it's a Gen 3 metagame. Try not to go too crazy with anything brand new that you're submitting.

- To further elaborate, we want the pet mod to feel accessible to people who have played Gen 3 Ubers before. As such, new Pokemon that are added should be recognizable in their roles, (such as Araquanid not being a Ghost/Dragon type who clicks Draco Meteor) and should be both fairly straightforward to understand and in-line with the general Generation 3 power level.

Some examples: Solar Power (normal) and Solar Power but for rain would be good, Protosynthesis/Rain variation would similarly be acceptable.
Creating a brand-new, not in vanilla game mechanic for a specific Pokemon would not be.

Name:
Type:
Stats:
Abilities:
New Moves:
Role:
Checks/Counters:

Name:
Type:
Stats:
Abilities:
Full Movepool:
Role:
Checks/Counters:

Name:
Type:
Power:
Accuracy:
Effect:
Priority:
Potential Distribution:
Reason:

Voting Rules / Timeline

The submission phase will last 5 days. Most vetoes will most likely come from creating something with too high of a power level, and those will happen on the 5th day. You will get the rest of the time before voting to attempt to fix the submission.

The voting phase will last 2 days. Voters will submit in a ranked voting system, where they submit their favorites ranked 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. We will take at least the top 3 submissions at the end of the voting phase and add them to the mod. Voting for yourself is OK, but the highest you can put yourself is 3rd. For clarity, if you were to submit a Pokemon with its own signature move, let's say Illumise with Continental Crush, if Continental Crush was exclusive to Illumise, it would count together as 1 submission. If Continental Crush was instead given to 6 or 7 Pokemon, Continental Crush would count as its own change and be voted on as such.

Join the discord here!
 
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Resources
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Preliminary VR made by the Council, will be updated as we add changes

Gen 3 Ubers Resources
Gen 3 Ubers Sample Teams
 
Slate 1: The (not Swift Swim) Rock Types
:rs/tyranitar: :rs/regirock: :rs/armaldo: :rs/aerodactyl: :rs/golem: :rs/rhydon: :rs/aggron::rs/solrock:
Rock types have a very unique place in ADV Ubers. Unlike the usual Steel type Normal resists, they resist Snorlax's Fire moves, making them pretty secure answers to the otherwise problematic blob. Offensively, it's entirely possible that your opponent doesn't have a Rock resist, such as on a Forretress Rain Offense team, or they have a singular resist, such as a Metagross Rain Offense or a Groudon Sun Stall. However, their (usually) very low speed, weak STAB, and poor Special Defense make them very easy targets to prey on. Not to mention their terrible Groudon matchup, as most of the Rocks' best option for Groudon is to click Explosion, Focus Punch, or Toxic. Defensively, in comparison to Steel types like Forretress, Metagross, or Jirachi, they have many more weaknesses such as Water, Steel, and Fighting and cannot check nearly as many meta-relevant threats as they can. While they might in turn resist Ho-Oh's Sacred Fire, Rock being a physical type means that they cannot safely swap into it as a Burn would ruin them for the rest of the game. As such, you seldom see Rock types in the tier outside of the occasional Kabutops Rain, where it can use its superior speed in Rain to clean up an endgame after the opposing kaiju and Steel type have been chipped, or an Omastar Rain which utilizes its ability to Thief Latios Soul Dew and set Spikes.

The goal of this slate should be to make the Rocks more potent but not overbearing. If a Rock type can muscle through Groudon on its own, it is too strong. We want them to make better use of positive matchups into top Pokemon such as the Normal blobs or Flying Legendaries, whether it be as an offensive punish or defensive response. These Pokemon should generally try to be somewhere between A- and B in viability (floating between 3-10% usage)

Also, now linked in the OP is the link to the discord!
 
Name: Golem :golem:
Type: Rock/Ground
Stats: +15 Special Defense, +15 HP
Abilities: Immunity, Rock Head
New Moves: +Rapid Spin, +Curse, +Sludge Bomb, -Endure
Role: Strong anti-passive pokemon. Spin + Immunity means Golem can sit on pokemon like Skarmory and Forretress and keep spikes off the field, and Golem can also sit on Pokemon like Blissey, Jirachi and Lugia with their toxic sets. It can also sit on certain Dragon Dance Rayquaza sets, and its high defense stat lets it act as a soft check to choice band pokemon. Immunity to Electric can make Golem a solid pivot into Thunder as well in a pinch. Extra stats give it a better benchmark into followup special attacks, allowing it to be a more reliable spinner.

Curse gives it the option to go for a setup set (and it should never have lost it from GSC imo). Sludge Bomb is added for flavor with Immunity. Removed Endure because Golem no longer has Sturdy (flavor).
Checks/Counters: Groudon is still incredibly strong into Golem, as well as many of the premier offensive special attackers in the tier like Kyogre Mewtwo and Lati@s. Choice Band Metagross is also quite problematic for Golem. Additionally, Golem will constantly be pressured by rain builds.
 
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:rs/regirock:
Name: Regirock
Type: Rock/Fighting
Stats: 80/110/150/50/100/50 | 540
Abilities: Clear Body
New Moves: N/A
Role: Giving Regirock a Fighting typing allows it to apply a lot more pressure with the Fighting moves it already has to utilize on its offensive sets, Superpower and Focus Punch. By being able to find more damage on Groudon, it should be better equipped to try and slowly beat down bulkier teams with other physical teammates like Snorlax, especially double bird stalls. Outside of the fat matchup, it will find entry on mostly Snorlax and Blissey.

Checks/Counters: Regirock is still checked pretty hard by Groudon, with even Choice Band Superpower failing to 2HKO max HP Groudon (and doing comparable damage to CB Tyranitar Focus Punch), and a decrease in bulk makes it harder for it to set up and duel Pokemon like Metagross or Groudon. It struggles into Kyogre very heavily still, especially bulkier variations. By being more incentivized to click Fighting moves rather than Rock moves, it can even be answered by Reflect Lugia if the Regirock isn't running Rest. The Fighting typing does not do it any favors on the defensive end, as now Regirock is neutral to Flying and is a much worse Rayquaza/CB Ho-Oh check and can now be dropped cleanly from the somewhat rare Psychic from Latios and Psycho Boost from Deoxys-Attack.

:rs/lunatone:
Name: Lunatone
Type: Rock/Ice
Stats: 90/50/80/115/95/80 | 510
Abilities: Levitate / Ice Body
New Moves: +Icy Wind, +Blizzard, +Hail, +Moonlight, -Hypnosis
Role: A Rock type that can check some variants of Groudon and potentially turn it into a setup opportunity while also threatening the Latis. It also checks Snorlax, Rayquaza, can enter on Forretress, and can swap into specifically Ice Beam Latios in the Sun.

Added Ice moves to match its new typing, Moonlight because it’s a Moon, and took away Hypnosis to prevent it from disabling hard answers like Metagross or Blissey. Ice Body is a nice little bit of flavor as well, and unless Hail (or snow) is added at some point, it will remain there for flavor.

Checks/Counters: Kyogre, Blissey, and Metagross all completely stop it. The small attack nerf reduces the damage its already weak Explosion would do to Kyogre and Blissey (about 60% to Blissey, 55% to max HP Kyogre). Dragon Claw Latios still cleanly 2HKOes it and prevents it from swapping in, and Rock Slide Groudon destroys it. It is very easily revenged by Deoxys-Attack, or Brick Break Rayquaza. It is forced to use Explosion or run a Substitute set in the face of Pokémon such as Toxic Ho-Oh.
 
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:rs/armaldo:
Name: Armaldo
Type: Rock/Bug
Stats: 75/110/100/70/100/45 (special defense is buffed by 20 while attack is reduced by 15)
Abilities: Water Absorb
New Moves: Signal Beam, Refresh
Role: Armaldo will now act as a soft Kyogre and Latios/Latias check while being a Ho-oh check too, that can either generate progress with Knock Off or Rapid Spin. It can then threaten back big damage to the Latis, but not outright KO them, meaning you do still need support in that regard but it can take a hit in a pinch. With Refresh in its arsenal, it can also hard stop CM sacred fire ho-oh, as even +1 hits do 52% max before leftovers. It does struggle with Choice Band variants still, but it can take Sacred Fire easily, or take one banded attack in a pinch.
Checks/Counters: Groudon still is an immense counter to this mon, as with the reduced attack stat and need to go specially defensive, you aren't doing much back without Toxic, which is hard to fit with all of Signal Beam, Refresh, Rock Blast and Knock Off or Rapid Spin requiring usage. If you do fit Toxic in, then you can put it on a timer at least. Metagross also hard checks it, being able to take any attack easily and threaten an OHKO with Meteor Mash. Skarmory and Forretress do not appreciate taking Knock Off, but they can usually stomach any attacks it has and pivot out to something else that can threaten it. Forretress can just PP stall Armaldo and threaten chip damage with HP bug. Armaldo's main issue as stated above, is its moveslot issues. After Signal Beam and Refresh, two necessary moves on it, you need to fit Rock Blast, Knock Off, Rapid Spin and Toxic. This means teams have to choose what moves they require.

:rs/solrock:
Name: Solrock
Type: Rock/Fire (shoutouts to R8 for the Fire type idea+Morning Sun idea that I totally forgot about)
Stats: 70/105/95/55/65/100 (10 more attack, 10 more defense and 30 more speed)
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: Taunt, Night Shade, Refresh, Rapid Spin, Morning Sun
Role: Solrock will now act as a Raquazza and Groudon check (note, check, it does struggle into certain variants). With access to Taunt, Refresh and Night Shade, Solrock can take any one hit from Groudon, and threaten it back with either Toxic or Night Shade. Rayquazza has to use Rock Slide to damage it at all, with Solrock being able to take even one hit from CB rock slide variants and threaten back with an OHKO by using Explosion, or a 2HKO with Rock Slide. You also do exceptionally well into both Skarmory and Forretress, being able to click Rapid Spin on them, which can provide immense team support. Snorlax has to specifically be Shadow Ball, as otherwise you really just perma-wall it with Taunt+Morning Sun, and Explosion does massive damage in return.
Checks/Counters: Choice Band Rock Slide Groudon's still do insane damage to it, but you can at least put it on a timer. Special attacking Raquazza sets also blow this mon up. Latios, Deo-A, Kyogre, all threaten the hell out of this mon.
 
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aerodactyl.png

Name: Aerodactyl
Type: Rock/Flying
Stats: 85 (+5) / 105 / 85 (+20) / 80 (+20) / 85 (+10) / 130 | 570
Abilities: Rock Head / Natural Cure
New Moves: Drill Peck, Refresh
Role: does what aero does but with its extra bulk and natcure it has the ability to switch into stuff like hooh/groudon lacking rock slide so it can possibly run a lefties subtoxic set or something. also extra spa means it can click flamethrower against stuff like metagross/skarm/forretress
Checks/Counters: unchanged physical offenses means band sets get walled by the same things while nonband sets are even weaker
 
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:rhydon:
Name: Rhydon
Type: Rock/Ground
Stats: 105/130/60/45/120/40 (500)
Abilities: Intimidate / Rock Head
New Moves: Thunder Wave
Role: essentially flipping around the role with added special bulk to make it a better check to mixed attackers like hooh and rayquaza, and able to clock switchins in return with huge earthquakes and rock slides
Checks/Counters: same as before, but physmons are better at handling it on occasion
:lunatone:
Name: Lunatone
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 85/75/65/105/105/75 | 510
Abilities: Levitate
New Moves: +thunderbolt, Meteor Mash, Recover -hypnosis
Role: a conventionally potent check to a lot of mons in the tier due to the unique ability to resist both ground and dragon, while not dying to fire moves. Doesn’t have a conventional stab anymore but has extremely usable coverage in electric and ice. Has conventionally useful resistances too, but can easily be sniped by a fighting type move
 
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tyranitar.png.m.1706150269

Name: Tyranitar
Type: Rock/Dark
Stats: 105(+5) /109 (-25) / 110 / 115 (+20) / 105 (+5) / 56 (-5) (BST 600)
Abilities: Sand Stream
New Moves: -Fire Blast -Flamethrower -Fire Punch
Role: This Tyranitar does what it did before disrupting Drizzle and Drought, but now has more of a presence as it's able to threaten Latias and Latios with Crunch and Pursuit. I chose to remove its Fire-type coverage as this allows Forretress to set Spikes in front of it or remove it with Counter off an HP Fire.
Checks/Counters: Kyogre and Metagross can completely stuff it. Spikes hamper its ability to successfully check Latios and Latias, meaning it desperately wants a rapid spin user to support it. If Tyranitar lacks HP Fire, Forretress can use Tyranitar as fodder for spikes. Tyranitar also struggles with Deo-A and CB Rayquaza if it's locked into Earthquake.
 
:shuckle:

Name: Shuckle
Type: Rock (No longer bug)
Stats: 50 (+30) / 10 / 230 / 10 / 230 / 5 = 545?
Abilities: Shell Armour
New Moves: Heal Bell
Role: Rock pivot into a lot of weaker attacks and status. Heal bell user to allow for the team to shed para, at the opportunity cost of you having to run shuckle. Rest talk abuser.
Checks/Counters: Anything powerful that can take advantage of it resting to set up. DS Groudon or CM Kyogre for example. Latios has good rolls to 3hko shuckle unless shuckle invests only in spdef.
 
Name: cradily

Type: rock/grass

Stats: +20 special defence +20 special attack

Abilities: suction cups, water absorb/bw storm drain

New Moves: +leech seed +leaf blade +curse

Role: this would serve as a pivot into water types and directly threaten some of them with leaf blade, with bw storm drain it could also function as a deterrent to strong water moves as it would increase its special attack. The addition of curse would let it run a physical curse set that could ramp up.

Checks/Counters: while it can switch into Kyogre it is still 2hko by ice beam, latios and Mewtwo can both switch in and threaten heavy damage with ice beam. Max attack groudon can still 2hko 252hp cradily with earthquake and both metagross and heracross threaten it with their respective stabs.



Name:Aggron

Type: electric/rock

Stats: +30 special attack

Abilities: magnet pull, rock head

New Moves: n/a

Role: this would serve as a more bulky magnet pull Pokemon designed to trap skarmory and forretress and hit them with its wide special move pool. Its massive physical defense also makes it out at pivoting into metagross meteor mash as it is neutral. It’s rock/electric typing also lets it come in a couple of times on electric coverage and potentially threaten lati@s and Mewtwo with mixed coverage.

Checks/Counters: it is very slow compared to most other things in the metagame and is 4x weak to ground meaning it would have to be careful coming into snorlax and metagross as they may have earthquake to hit it. Groudon also hits it with massive ground moves and kos it. Kyogre and other strong special attackers with water moves also threaten it as it has low special defence.
 
Name: Spiritomb :spiritomb:
Type: Ghost - Rock
Stats:
108/108/108/108/108/18
Abilities:
Pressure, Insomnia
Full Movepool:
Calm Mind, Curse, Destiny Bond, Disable, Facade, Frustration, Hidden Power, Memento, Night Shade, Pain Split, Protect, Psychic, Pursuit, Return, Shadow Ball, Sleep Talk, Substitute, Taunt, Toxic, Will-o-Wisp, Attract, Confuse Ray, Double Team, Dream Eater, Endure, Feint Attack, Flash, Grudge, Hyper Beam, Icy Wind, Imprison, Nightmare, Psybeam, Rain Dance, Rock Tomb, Scary Face, Shock Wave, Snatch, Spite, Sunny Day, Swagger, Thief, Torment, Water Pulse, Rock Slide (new), Sandstorm (new).
Role:
Spiritomb uses a new typing, Ghost/Rock. Defensively, Ghost allows Spiritomb to switch into all Explosions and Forretress's Rapid Spin (but not Water Mons one). Blissey with Seismic Toss is also unable to damage Spiritomb, Heracross has both STABs walled, while Deo-A can,t use Superpower or Extreme Speed. Rock gives resistance to Fire (though Spiritomb is still unreliable vs Ho-oh) and Flying, meaning it can check some Rayquaza and Lugia sets. Insomnia is the last defensive value of Spiritomb, it allows it to easily switch into the rare Smeargle, Hypnosis Gengar and Jynx, but Chlorophyll Sleep Powder Mons aren,t walled. Pressure is alternative ability if team has other Sleep countermeasures.
Spiritomb serves as a big threat with Band Shadow Ball and Rock Slides, but due to having excellent Stats (558 BST, below all legendaries and pseudos, but way above all other existant Mons except Arcanine, who is very close), can serve other roles, since it learns the rare (in Adv) WoW and can destroy Deoxys with Pursuit, despite not being STAB anymore. Spiritomb forces Snorlax to use either Shadow Ball or EQ and threatens every single Psychic Mon of the Tier except Metagross (who it can still burn). Flying types are the other match-up in which Spiritomb excels, Lugia, Rayquaza and Ho-oh are all threatened by Rock Slide.
Checks/Counters:

Biggest check to Spiritomb is Toxic. If you look the Full Movepool section, you will notice the lack of Rest. This is done on purpose, I believe all Ghost except the ones that evolve from non-Ghost (which in Gen 3 is only Shedinja) should not learn Rest, just like Mons who have Sleep preventing abilities (like the Insomnia I gave Tomb). Lacking Rest, Toxic and burns put Spiritomb on timer, Heal Bell from Blissey only has 8 PPs. Pain Split is a recovery Mon but the huge HP Spiritomb has is actually detrimental for this.
The next problem about Spiritomb are the 6 weaknesses. Every Mon Spiritomb checks has some coverage for it: Deoxys has Shadow Ball, the Latis have Surf, Mewtwo also learns Shadow Ball, Rayquaza, Heracross, Lugia and Ho-oh learn EQ (Ho-oh already threatens Spiritomb enough with a burn), Snorlax is forced to use Shadow Ball or EQ, but at least learns them. Spiritomb forces coverage on all of these Mons, but doesn,t actually fully wall them, just checks.
As for actual counters, Groudon and Metagross only fear Wow. If they have Lum Berry or use Restalk, they fully wall Spiritomb. Restalk Pdef Kyogre is another counter, while Omastar is a good check on Rain teams. Spiritomb is weak to Dugtrio's EQ and Tyranitar's Pursuit, but 108/108/108 bulk allows him to tank some hits.
The other problem Spiritomb has is the one stat in which its weak, Speed. Spiritomb is slower than every single Mon except Trapinch and Shuckle. This means that it will be taking hits, without the option of using Rest, combined with Spikes, its not too hard to wear down despite the impressive Stats.



Name: Magcargo :magcargo:
Type: Fire-Rock
Stats:
60/30/150/120/100/30
Abilities:
Volcanic / Flame Body
Custom Ability: Volcanic: The Pokemon is immune to Water (like Levitate).
New Moves:
Recover, Calm Mind, Solar Beam
Role:
First thing, first, the new ability. Here is the Pokedex entry from Sapphire: Magcargo's body temperature is approximately 18,000 degrees F. Water is vaporized on contact. If this Pokémon is caught in the rain, the raindrops instantly turn into steam, cloaking the area in a thick fog.
So, basically, lore says this Mon should be immune to Water. Desolate Land makes sense... but Magcargo is not legendary enough.
With the new ability, Magcargo is the best Water check that exists. Almost fully walls Kyogre and Omastar. Non EQ Snorlax is walled too. 150 Defense allow Magcargo to tank some strong physicall hits unless they are Earthquake. It has no Special weaknesses, so Gengar is fully walled and Chlorophyll Mons well checked. Recover with 32 PPs allows Magcargo to stick around longer if its not hit by effective attacks, Calm Mind allows it to sometimes be a win condition.
Checks/Counters:

Earthquake deletes Magcargo and many Mons learn it, including Kyogre. Band Deoxys-Attack with Superpower almost always OHKOs, non Band still damages Magcargo very hard. Special boosters like the Latis and Mewtwo end up overwhelming our snail too.
Kyogre despite struggling to kill Magcargo without suboptimal EQ, still annoys it with Rain, so at +6, Magcargo will most likely lose to a Thunder crit (but still will wall Monoatacker or CM + Ice Beam).
Toxic is the other weakness, 32 PP Recovers don,t save the snail from being vulnerable to it.
Dugtrio can,t switch into Magcargo, but obviously revenge kills.
 
Name: aggron
Type: rock (drops steel)
Stats: +20 attack
Abilities:
rock head/solid rock
New Moves: +
head smash, +bulk up
Role:
removing the steel type makes aggron at least usable as a tank without its crippling 4x weaknesses it has to ground. The easiest place to fit this would be on para spam where you could use a cb set to smack things with its high power recoil moves it can spam with its ability.
Checks/Counters:
it still retains its weakness to fighting and ground moves, struggles to hit metagross and groudon for big damage. Requires team support to use. It still has a low hp and spdef stat so any strong special attack will threaten massive damage. Additionally Kyogre and other water types ohko it.
 
:rs/solrock:
Name: Solrock
Type: Rock/Ghost
Stats: 80/120/95/70/65/80| 510
Abilities: Levitate, Flash Fire
New Moves: +Morning Sun, +Curse, +Destiny Bond, -Hypnosis
Role: Solrock is meant to be a frail offensive pivot that gets to utilize the odd set of metagame factors that makes STAB Shadow Ball such a potent attacking option within ADV Ubers. Similarly to how Metagross regularly switches in on Snorlax/Rayquaza as an offensive pivot, Solrock would also be able to take advantage of these openings to dish out these attacks. The addition of Flash Fire allows Solrock to have an easier time dealing with Ho-Oh without fearing Sacred Fire, although you still have to be cautious around Shadow Ball. The loss of Levitate is not particularly impactful either, as you already have a sketchy matchup against the 2 Pokemon likely to run Earthquake (Metagross and Groudon, who regularly carries HP Ghost for the Lati's)

Added noteworthy ghost moves to fit the new typing, Morning Sun to give a fitting healing option, and removed Hypnosis due to the potential to use it as a inconsistent and frustrating way to make progress against answers that.

Checks/Counters: Ironically, both Kaijus serve as solid answers to this updated Solrock. Kyogre will be able to tank a couple of hits from Solrock's STAB and will be able to threaten it out with Water STAB. In addition, the capability to set rain weakens the healing effect of Solrock'sMorning Sun for future switch ins. Solrock's physical attacks will bounce off of Groudon, who will make quick work of it with Earthquake. Even Levitate Solrock isn't safe from HP Ghost. Metagross similarly is poised to switch in as a physical tank that can threaten Solrock with STAB Meteor Mash, if you can avoid switching into an EQ that is. While Forretress and Skarmory need to be wary of potential fire coverage, they are solid answers in the instance that it sufficiently scouted or the rain is up. As a result of its middling bulk, it struggles to find opportunites to switch in that its defensive typing does not account for, usually dying to 2 invested special attacks, or physically invested ghost moves from the likes of Mewtwo, Deoxys, and Gengar that all outrun it.
 
:SV/Aggron:
Name: Aggron
Type: Rock/Steel
Stats: 70/110/180/60/60/50 (530)
Abilities: Sturdy / Earth Eater / Impenetrable
Custom Ability: Impenetrable (Magic Guard clone)
New Moves: +Curse, +Spikes, +Dragon Dance, +Meteor Mash
Role: Earth Eater not only makes it immune but recover HP from the Ground-type attacks that would otherwise decimate it. Curse and Dragon Dance give it sweeping options. Impenetrable makes it immune to indirect damage that would otherwise chip it down.
Checks/Counters: Its Special Defense is still slow, and it still has no reliable recovery.
 
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