Gen 4 OU - gaaaaaah curselax

[JBCWK]

I figured I might as well post this on PO as well as here, so yeah.

Mai Gen 4 OU team (no I could not think of a better name)​

Introduction

This team is an offensive team with rather little emphasis on entry hazards. I usually get by weakening all of my opponent's pokemon with various switches to whatever comes in, and if I get the chance to let Azelf use NP it's GG.

The friggin team

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion

Stealth Rock is standard, though nowadays I rarely use it and just opt to Fire Blast whoever comes in. I used to run Taunt before hand, then I realised I couldn't at least take out a final threat before it died. Outspeeding Metagross and OHKOing is really fun and something all of you should do =P It can also nuke Scizor after switching, provided Scizor doesn't Brick Break/Superpower Heatran into oblivion.

The main problem with Heatran is that against Aero, Scarf Flygon and Swampert, it fails miserably. Shuca Berry is usually not enough to save it, and Machamp OHKOs with Dynamicpunch. Still, it's a very solid pokemon, and one that I usually bring back in later in the match.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Standard set-up-and-rape Azelf. Psychic is the STAB that everyone loves, and it OHKOs Gengar, which I cannot counter otherwise. HP Fighting OHKOs Tyranitar before it Crunches, Flamethrower hits Metagross, Scizor, Forry and Zone. Azelf is absolutely amazing, and it's kinda cute too.

Azelf's frailty is the one thing that holds it back. Starmie and other Azelf tie speed with it, and if they move first Azelf usually gets taken out. Thankfully I've got 2 other counters to those 2, so it's all good.

Before anyone says Blissey, +2 Azelf 3RKOs it with HP Fighting or Psychic.

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Raikou... is interesting. Most people expect a Calm Mind variant, and will go straight to a sleepbot or Flygon. That's when I HP Ice it to death, and then swap out on the next switch-in. Thunderbolt provides power, and if it gets sleeped I use Sleep Talk to at least hit the sleeper.

If Raikou is locked into TBolt, however, ground types immediately force a switch, most notable of all being Flygon. Still, Shadow Ball and a pseudo-BoltBeam is enough to at least take out one pokemon, and Raikou's a pretty solid addition to the team.

Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- DynamicPunch
- Stone Edge
- Payback
- Substitute

SubChamp is wonderful. It forces many switches once it comes in, and after the Sub I don't require any prediction to rape the opponent. A free switch-in to Blissey and Tyranitar is also nice. Dynamicpunch is the standard attack, with 150BP after STAB, it wrecks anything that doesn't resist it. Stone Edge hits anything on wings, and Payback hits Rotoms and Gengars. Simple, but amazingly effective.

The one weakness of SubChamp is that detestable speed. It's tied for 6th worst in the tier, though it at least has good defenses so it isn't immediately taken out.

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Starmie, how I love thee. Trick cripples Blissey, forcing the opponent to switch. With the Scarf it also becomes a pro revenge killer, having the wonderful BoltBeam and STAB Hydro Pump. Hydro Pump is the main attack of choice, hitting everything that doesn't resist it hard. Starmie is also my counter to Flygon (provided it doesn't U-turn) and Gliscor, as well as being able to revenge many OU threats. Modest is used because the only OU pokemon that outspeeds it is Ninjask after one or 2 Speed Boosts, and Ninjask has paper durability.

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

Rotom is the check to anything physical. With good defenses and burn, it can stop many things, and hell, I usually have it burn special types as well because Will-O-Wisp is my only status move. Thunderbolt and Shadow Ball provide reliable STAB, and Rotom-C is chosen because it scares Swampert off.

Rotom-C is one of my 2 Scizor counters, which really goes to show how much I hate it. Burn is an amazing status move, and if it hits (grr 75% accuracy), it's pretty much one pokemon gone from the match.

Conclusion

I really like this team. It's able to counter teams that go for a balance of attack and defense well, along with teams that rely on physical attackers to rip through teams. It's certainly not the best team out there, and stall probably beats it, but there's a reason why I have this RMT =P

Threats to this team

I have only beaten Curselax once with this team, and that was when the opponent misclicked Body Slam instead of Rest. I imagine any RestTalker would rip through this team (Thankfully I've only faced one so far, aka CROCUNE...), and if Raikou screws up Sleep Talk Breloom becomes a raping machine. Magnezone counters Heatran, Raikou and Starmie and is faster than Machamp, which is pretty dangerous as well.

Possible changes

Gengar is a cool bro, and Pain Split may help with Pokemon such as Suicune. I have considered Skarm as a Spiker and phazer, as well as being a good physical wall, but it would go against the direction of the team. This team is also very special oriented, so I might have Gyara replace Azelf and Jolteon replace Raikou, but then I lose my Sleep Talk. Could also potentially run Breloom over Machamp since it's faster and Sleep <3. Oh well.

Importable here~

Hide

Heatran (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion

Azelf @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 28 HP / 252 SAtk / 228 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Psychic
- Flamethrower
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power [Fighting]

Raikou @ Choice Specs
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Sleep Talk
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: No Guard
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- DynamicPunch
- Stone Edge
- Payback
- Substitute

Starmie @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Rotom-C @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball

Do help me give advice on how further to improve this team =P

 

[Eggbert]

Most of your team seems solid, however some of it is a bit redundant and I think can be changed to cover more roles and threats:

Life orb Starmie seems to be a big threat; nothing can really switch in without being 2HKOd and it can clean your team up easily lategame. DDLO nite with extremespeed 6-0s easily, and you don't have much that can take strong outrages and fight back. Lastly, Shaymin and offensive grass types look tough to handle here since Heatran will probably take some damage as a lead and be in KO range. Jolly luke also 6-0s easily. Snorlax does not seem like a threat though; half of your team can beat it by either exploding, tricking, or hitting with a strong super effective STAB.

To fix these problems, I'd try a scarf Jirachi with Iron Head / Fire Punch / Thunder punch / (Ice punch / Trick) over Raikou, and make Starmie a LO attacker with rapid spin over trick. You can check most threats like Gengar, Gyarados, Dragonite, CMers, ect easily with Jirachi except maybe Agiligross, which Rotom beats. Starmie will add alot to your offense with life orb, and you still have trick. With that, I'd try a Kingdra over Azelf. Kingdra can beat Starmie and bulky waters like Vaporeon with the chesto rest set and tank strong fire and water moves which you do not have solid switches for. You could also try mixnite help against stall teams with the overpowered draco meteor, Starmie can run rapid spin to cover for the SR weakness.

 

[AB2]

Seems like an interesting team, and you use a few cool sets which make it quite unique, especially in late 4th gen such as this. A major problem that I see right off the bat is that you are weak to some common set up sweepers such as Adamant Swords Dance Lucario. Even earlier in the match, after 1 swords dance [which is easily obtained if Raikou is locked into the wrong move] has the potential to do some major damage to this team. If you want an easy fix, I would just try and use a Scarf Rotom over your current one. Scarf Rotom will not only allow you to check Swords Dance Lucario very efficiently as well as other threatening sweepers that can rip holes in teams such as Gyarados.

With this in mind, I would also take into mind that Choice Scarf Starmie isn't really the best revenge killer in this metagame. Although it may be quite fast, if it is locked into the wrong move, pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar can have a field day, whereas Rotom has the potential to threaten these pokemon with moves like Hydro Pump. If I were you, I would simply shift your Starmie for an Offensive Suicune. Suicune will allow you to check pokemon such as Gyarados, Dragonite, Infernape, and it has the ability to lure in revenge killers such as Scarf Rotom. Not only this, but Suicune is a much better pokemon for tanking hits than Starmie who is generally quite frail and can let you down in certain situations.

Next, I would use a pokemon that allows you to check electric types such as Jolteon and Zapdos. Currently, these aforementioned pokemon can give you an extreme amount of trouble as a well played Sub Roost Zapdos or Life Orb Jolteon has the potential to do some major damage to your team. If I were you, I would simply just use a Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi set over your Machamp. If you run the EV spread of 252 HP | 220 Def | 36 Spe with a Bold Nature, you will be able to easily set up on most Zapdos whom can give you some major trouble. Not only that, but the wish support that Jirachi provides is excellent for Suicune.

Finally, with your Machamp being possibly replaced, I would look into using a Choice Scarfed Flygon over your Raikou. Although Raikou is a powerful pokemon on this team, it really isn't helping you much in the long run of checking threats. Flygon, on the other hand, allows you to take out many of the common threats in OU such as Adamant Agiligross, Kingdra, Gyarados, Tyranitar, and many others. Not only that, but Flygon can take most of the pokemon that Suicune has trouble with, such as Jolteon, and keep your offensive momentum up. As a final note, I would switch your Heatran and Azelf spreads up so that you are leading with a Life Orb Azelf with Psychic | Fire Blast | Taunt | U-turn or Explosion and then a Shuca Heatran.

Alright, that is all I have to say about this team, I wish you good luck with the changes that you make.

 

[Lord Liam]

One nitpick, I really can't stand running 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe on Machamp, I vastly prefer 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe. Try out that spread I'm sure it'll perform better.

 

[JBCWK]

Most of your team seems solid, however some of it is a bit redundant and I think can be changed to cover more roles and threats:

Life orb Starmie seems to be a big threat; nothing can really switch in without being 2HKOd and it can clean your team up easily lategame. DDLO nite with extremespeed 6-0s easily, and you don't have much that can take strong outrages and fight back. Lastly, Shaymin and offensive grass types look tough to handle here since Heatran will probably take some damage as a lead and be in KO range. Jolly luke also 6-0s easily. Snorlax does not seem like a threat though; half of your team can beat it by either exploding, tricking, or hitting with a strong super effective STAB.

To fix these problems, I'd try a scarf Jirachi with Iron Head / Fire Punch / Thunder punch / (Ice punch / Trick) over Raikou, and make Starmie a LO attacker with rapid spin over trick. You can check most threats like Gengar, Gyarados, Dragonite, CMers, ect easily with Jirachi except maybe Agiligross, which Rotom beats. Starmie will add alot to your offense with life orb, and you still have trick. With that, I'd try a Kingdra over Azelf. Kingdra can beat Starmie and bulky waters like Vaporeon with the chesto rest set and tank strong fire and water moves which you do not have solid switches for. You could also try mixnite help against stall teams with the overpowered draco meteor, Starmie can run rapid spin to cover for the SR weakness.

Yeah, I don't really have a proper Starmie check aside from my Starmie itself, but a TBolt will probably nuke mine off.

Oh shit, I completely forgot about Outrage. I don't really see Shaymin on OU, so admittedly I don't really have any counters, but ehh, Ice Beam works =/

Luke does get OHKO'd by any SE move, but admittedly once it sets up I'm pretty much dead since Heatran gets CC'd.

I fall for the "last poke curselax" thing too often. Too many times I've lost to a Curselax sweep because Machamp and Heatran are gone.

The thing is, Raikou's a surprise check for Flygon, since Scarf Flygon can usually come in on the predicted Raikou CM and EQ it to hell. Starmie's also got speed over Jirachi, and Starmie outright beats Scarf Flygon whereas Jirachi ties. LO Starmie was pretty fun on my old team and I really love it, and after abusing Kingdra to hell I think I'll go use it some more, so thanks.

Seems like an interesting team, and you use a few cool sets which make it quite unique, especially in late 4th gen such as this. A major problem that I see right off the bat is that you are weak to some common set up sweepers such as Adamant Swords Dance Lucario. Even earlier in the match, after 1 swords dance [which is easily obtained if Raikou is locked into the wrong move] has the potential to do some major damage to this team. If you want an easy fix, I would just try and use a Scarf Rotom over your current one. Scarf Rotom will not only allow you to check Swords Dance Lucario very efficiently as well as other threatening sweepers that can rip holes in teams such as Gyarados.

With this in mind, I would also take into mind that Choice Scarf Starmie isn't really the best revenge killer in this metagame. Although it may be quite fast, if it is locked into the wrong move, pokemon such as Scizor and Tyranitar can have a field day, whereas Rotom has the potential to threaten these pokemon with moves like Hydro Pump. If I were you, I would simply shift your Starmie for an Offensive Suicune. Suicune will allow you to check pokemon such as Gyarados, Dragonite, Infernape, and it has the ability to lure in revenge killers such as Scarf Rotom. Not only this, but Suicune is a much better pokemon for tanking hits than Starmie who is generally quite frail and can let you down in certain situations.

Next, I would use a pokemon that allows you to check electric types such as Jolteon and Zapdos. Currently, these aforementioned pokemon can give you an extreme amount of trouble as a well played Sub Roost Zapdos or Life Orb Jolteon has the potential to do some major damage to your team. If I were you, I would simply just use a Calm Mind + Wish Jirachi set over your Machamp. If you run the EV spread of 252 HP | 220 Def | 36 Spe with a Bold Nature, you will be able to easily set up on most Zapdos whom can give you some major trouble. Not only that, but the wish support that Jirachi provides is excellent for Suicune.

Finally, with your Machamp being possibly replaced, I would look into using a Choice Scarfed Flygon over your Raikou. Although Raikou is a powerful pokemon on this team, it really isn't helping you much in the long run of checking threats. Flygon, on the other hand, allows you to take out many of the common threats in OU such as Adamant Agiligross, Kingdra, Gyarados, Tyranitar, and many others. Not only that, but Flygon can take most of the pokemon that Suicune has trouble with, such as Jolteon, and keep your offensive momentum up. As a final note, I would switch your Heatran and Azelf spreads up so that you are leading with a Life Orb Azelf with Psychic | Fire Blast | Taunt | U-turn or Explosion and then a Shuca Heatran.

Alright, that is all I have to say about this team, I wish you good luck with the changes that you make.

The problem is that if I use Rotom for a kill, then Scizor and TTar could come in, and I'm stuck in the exact same situation as with Scarfmie. I'd also rather use Kingdra over Suicune so I'd have one physical, one special sweeper (Taking your WishCM Jirachi in). I could have had Jolteon as my check to Electric types, but then again that would have been kinda boring.

I've never really seen the appeal of Flygon (mainly because I thought Gamefreak was insane for not giving it DD), but I guess I could give this a shot. I also see the logic in your Azelf-Heatran switch, so k.

I've currently got the team Azelf, Heatran, Scarfgon, WishCMRachi, ChestoRest Kingdra, SDCario. Could potentially switch Luke for Infernape or Scizor, so I hope you guys can help me on that.

Oh yeah, fun fact: In that old team, 5/6 pokemon were checked by Dugtrio. @_@

 

[Kisuke]

I second the Sucuine suggestion, using Kingdra would just give yourself another Flygon weak Pokemon. I know you have Jirachi but still, it's best to have him hidden until late game unless you really need him.

 

[guanlong]

No shit nig you're finally posting outside of mafia?!

Anyway cool team, I just have a few suggestions for you: why is Azelf Naive when running all special? Just run Timid and be done with it :p

Also, Raikou is pretty trashy. If you're really that desperate to beat Breloom use something like a Scarftran.

Heatran
@Choice Scarf
Naive 4/252/252
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Explosion/HP [Grass]
- Stealth Rock

Also, this guy can be used to set up midgame Stealth Rock, in addition to checking Scizor. The main ground type that outruns is Scarf Flygon and Heatran won't be doing too much to it anyway. Also, doesn't Trick ruin Curselax already?