[Gen 4] The Multiple Roads

[AntiMetaGame]

Hi Smogon! This is a 4th Gen RMT that I was hoping could be improved. A while ago, I stopped playing for a couple weeks because I kept losing. I felt that I was "losing" my touch in Pogemanz and took a break. Lately, I had an Agiligross fetish which then turned to an SD ape fetish which then turned back into an Agiligross fetish. So to make one of my final 4th Gen teams, I decided to fix what I couldn't do in my last RMT: make an Agiligross team that went with my place style - Bulky Offense. Anyway, here's my team - The Multiple Roads

The Multiple Roads

Well, first things first, my favorite sweeper - Metagross is coming in. Agiligross is a force to be reckoned with due to him being extremely fast, naturally bulky, and a fucking wrecking ball too.

Agiligross is stopped cold by several things. To ensure his clean-up or late game sweep, I need to get rid of defensive walls - pert, hippo, skarm, Zapdos. I also need to kill those god forsaken Rotoms. Instead of countering each and every of of Metagross' problems, I took small steps. Offensive CM cune takes care of almost every wall. With a +1 Calm Mind he takes any hit, and responds with a KO. I've made my 2nd road. In case Agiligross can't late game sweep, Cune will mid game sweep everything else and switch when he needs too.

Now even though my team is going strong, I need something to lure of Rotom, and dent everything else. Mix nite came to mind. The mindset of him going DD holocaust on everyone is in everyone's head. Instead, a Draco Meteor to the face is what they get.

Now I forgot the most important thing - a lead and entry hazards. In the past, the combination of CB Azelf and Shuca Tran sold me in competitive play. However, losing 2 spots automatically really hurts in the long run. This time, I chose Uxie, a UU defensive monster. Now only can he take hits, he can open the path of a mixnite sweep as opposed to my Agiligross sweep. Thus, my 3rd road is complete.

Now my team is looking pretty offensive. However, I still want to fix problems. I added Proseed Shaymin. Why? Because he's pro #1, and #2, he can take on almost any Poke, lure out steels (and kill them) and also show me if a scarf Flygon/CB Scizor is lurking around so that Dragonite can smash them on the switch.

Alright, and now I need a revenge killer. I've used Scarf Flygon, but he's incredibly weak. I chose Scizor instead. That way, I can find common counters and bring in the appropriate switch-in and revenge kill shit.

More In Depth
Changes in RED

Uxie (You See)
Impish
Levitate
Choice Scarf
252 HP /104 Def / 152 Spe
- Trick
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- U - Turn
Uxie is one of my favorite leads in OU. With Choice Scarf, he's good to go cripple something. Standard Choice Scarf EVs allow for - outspeeding Aero as they taunt when I trick, a lot of bulk, and paralyzing things. One of my roads is to paralyze things. That way mixnite can come in and dismantle everything. Here's how he does against other leads.
Azelf - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks. If I lock them into Taunt, I'll U-Turn
Machamp - Trick them the scarf, take a Payback, and then go to Scizor and U-Turn
Gliscor - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks. If I lock them into Taunt, I'll U-Turn
Swampert - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks. If they Ice Beam spam after the trick, I'll set up rocks instead of Twaving and then U-turn
Heatran - I've never faced one of these. There's no need to trick due to Shuca Berry being useless on a Levitator. I'll SR, and switch to Cune
Hippodown - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks.
Dragonite - I haven't seen one of these before, Draco Meteor really must hurt. Rocks on Draco Meteor, then go to Scizor and take ExtreemeSpeed and then U-Turn
Aerodactyl - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks. If I lock them into Taunt, I'll U-Turn
Weavile -Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks. If I lock them into Taunt, I'll U-Turn
Bronzong - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks.
Roserade - Tricky tricky. I think I'll take a sash and get slept, though some players set up Toxic Spikes predicting the Trick.
Jirachi - I just set up rocks and go to Scizor for U-Turn
Metagross - Trick them, Twave the switch, then set up rocks. If they mash on the trick, I'll go to Scizor and U-turn

Smeargle - Trick them, take the sleep, and then go to Scizor and U-turn

Dragonite (The First)
Mild
Inner Focus
Life Orb
56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Superpower
- Roost
This is a standard mixnite. I opted for Fire Blast as it has more power, but I rarely use it as steel types switch in for free since they fear EQ. Most of the time the opponent switches and gets smacked in the face with Draco Meteor. Generally, I find him really weak, but I don't mind too much as Scizor can pick off everything. It does kind of suck that I don't have spikes support, but the damage mixnite does is tremendous.

Scizor (GoldRanger)
Adamant
Technician
Choice Band
252 HP / 252 Att / 4 Def
- Bullet Punch
- U-Turn
- Superpower
- Quick Attack
Choice Band Scizor is basically my revenge killer. I didn't understand why the Smogon set had 8 Spe, so I made him a pure tank. I'm not a pursuit kind of guy (unless its CB lax), so I stuck on Quick Attack for my LO Starmie weakness.

Suicune (Slumber)
Timid
Pressure
Leftover
252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpD
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power Electric
Three words - OH MY GOD. Just alone (or with some Shaymin support) this guy creates another one of my sweeping roads. Even with only 1 point, yes, 1 fucking point of defense put in his EVs, this guy takes hits like a monster against any non super effective attack. Calm Mind once, and you're pretty much guarranteed a kill on any of his counters (cept the pink hoe). Sometimes, I don't even need gross since this guy just owns everything else. I tried going for a defensive set, but cune needs all the speed he can get in dire situations. Pseudo BoltBeam combo and Surf gives me good coverage against just about everything.

Shaymin (Green Guy)
Modest
Natural Cure
Leftovers
252 HP / 76 SpA / 180 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power Fire
I love Shaymin so much. With only HP envestment, he takes +1 attacks easily and responds with Proseed attacks. I used to use HP Ice on him on all my other teams, but with cune in play, Shaymin can now kill Scizor. What's even better is that this bad boy takes Flygon's U-turns and continues Proseeding. I feel he's a dead weight on this team, but Leech Seed recovery helps my other guys set up.

Metagross (Maxed Out)
Jolly
Clear Body
Life Orb
60 HP / 252 Att / 196 Spe
- Agility
- Meteor Mash
- Earthquake
- Thunderpunch
My clean-up and main sweeper who comes in when cune and nite have finished weakening everything. Given EVs allow him to outspeed all Jolly/Timid base 100 scarf users. In other words, scarf Flygon cannot revenge kill me and instead is 1HKOd by Meteor Mash. I decided Thunderpunch over Explosion because he's there to clean up after cune and nite.

​

Weaknesses
Sub Gengar - Generally, Scizor can Bullet Punch this guy, but after taking a Focus Blast behind a sub, Scizor is severely weakened and is easily set up bait for tran and Gyara
LO Starmie - I need my guys at full health to kill this monster. My main was is to bait a Tbolt with cune then go to Shaymin and kill with Seed Flare after a Ice Beam. Scizor can Quick Attack if need be.
SubPetaeya Empoleon - I've never faced this guy, but I imagine he can own a big part of my team. Depending on Grass Knot or Ice Beam, I have to sack Shaymin or Cune

Alright, thanks for the read. Please rate and commment!

 

[BKC]

Hi AntiMetaGame,

as with your past AgiliGross teams, solid squad, but there a few things I'd like to nitpick.

Firstly - you have no real way of beating Celebi, one of AgiliGross's biggest counters. A Thunder Wave set, such as standard support or Tinkerbell, will really give you trouble, as it cripples Dragonite, as well as most likely winning a 1-on-1 versus Shaymin. HP Fire will kill your Scizor after Stealth Rock, and your unboosted Suicune's Ice Beam fails to 2HKO.

To fix this, I would like to recommend two changes. They are: change your current Choice Band Scizor to a Choice Scarf set and to use Life Orb instead of Leftovers on Suicune.

Why Life Orb Suicune?
Suicune can grab a CM on the switch to a lured out Celebi, who counters your AgiliGross. Unfortunately, even a +1 Ice Beam will not KO, and Celebi can proceed to Thunder Wave, cripple you, then switch out, leaving your Suicune useless for the rest of the match, and then you have no way of really dealing with it save for Dragonite, who is crippled by T-Wave and cannot even OHKO with Fire Blast (77.2% - 91.1% with max special attack, which I do not believe you should be carrying anyways; I'll go into why later). With Life Orb, you gain the ability to KO Celebi at +1 with Ice Beam. This works best if you can grab the boost on a switch, but switching into Celebi and Calm Minding once in its face only to get T-Waved / Leech Seeded isn't the worst thing in the world, as they will think they can still take a hit, so they'll stay in and you will get the surprise KO, therefore removing their main counter to your AgiliGross. If you choose to go with LO, I suggest an EV spread of 252 SpA / 224 Spe / 32 HP - this gives you some extra bulk, a Life Orb number, and enough speed to outrun Jolly max speed Gyarados.

Why Choice Scarf Scizor?
Now I realize that LO Suicune on its own is not a guaranteed way of defeating Celebi so that AgiliGross can sweep. CB Scizor can threaten Celebi out with the threat of a retardedly powerful U-turn, but it is fairly common for Celebi to run HP Fire to eliminate Sciz after SR damage. Choosing to run a more specially defensive-oriented spread is a legitimate option, but it won't save you against good Celebi players who predict the switchin and HP Fire for a 2HKO regardless. By running Scarf, you avoid this scenario by outrunning and getting the surprise fast U-turn kill. This is not all ScarfZor does for your team, however. You mentioned how Gengar behind a Substitute gives you alot of hell; Scizor's Scarfed Pursuit puts it in a lose-lose situation, as Gengar cannot KO you unless it runs HP Fire, which is incredibly rare. Scizor will also give you a great check to LO Starmie, as the opponent will most likely think "oh I can KO this Scizor with Hydro Pump thanks to SR damage" only to die to the fast U-turn. The set runs a Jolly nature, with an EV spread of 252 Atk / 224 Spe / 32 HP (outruns Scarftar), and a moveset of U-turn | Bullet Punch / Iron Head | Superpower | Pursuit.

One last thing I would like to suggest is an EV spread change on Dragonite. You currently struggle with Blissey somewhat, so I would recommend investing in 116 Attack EVs which enables Superpower to KO Bold max/max variants; subtracting EVs from Special Attack would be the best option, seeing as most MixNite run 192 or 196 Speed, so those 200 EVs you have are quite crucial.

I hope I helped. Good luck.

 

[AntiMetaGame]

Thanks for the rate, I'm currently trying both changes. For now, all I can say is that mixnite and Scizor are way too weak now. Suicune also dies really fast now to scarfers. I might change mixnite to mixape due to the fact that after Scizor takes out Gengar/Starmie, ape can easily sweep.

 

[Eggbert]

Here's an easy way to deal with Starmie and Gengar: Add alot of Special Defense to Scizor. Running a set with 248 Hp / 84 Atk / 178 SpD allows you to check them much more easily. With the EVs, you can take an ice beam followed by a hydro pump (thunderbolt + hydro pump if SR isn't up) from Starmie, and 84 Atk KOs Gengar after stealth rock and sandstorm damage, and the EVs stop non LOgar for 2HKOing most of the time. Then I would just run Psychic on Uxie so subsplit gar can't set up.

If you are still having problems, scarf scizor as suggested above is a great way to deal with both of them and will also help against jolly luke but you can be OHKO'd by Starmie and is rather weak due to the jolly nature and lack of band.

 

[george182]

Team looks solid

I would go with BKC's suggestions, they solve your main problems.

This team may have problems with stall, and I really wanna suggest a life orb Heatran somewhere, but I can't see it fitting anywhere except over metagross which I know isn't gonna happen. If heatran learned agility, team would be pro lol.

 

[Smith]

Sup! Good team as always and I, of course, received your message. Other suggestions do seem to have you covered (mostly) so I'll just provide you with my personal opinion and if it repeats, then you know its good :)

Anyways threats threats threats. Pretty few actually, but they exist. Really your threats list can be condensed to powerful, fast special attackers. Gengar and Starmie just straight up outspeed most of your team and leave some heavy dents in it, and Empoleon is dangerous to any offensive team without a fast revenge killer like this one. I'd also watch out for Dd Dragonite as Scizor is not by any means a permanent solution (Im pretty sure BP doesnt Ko after SR).

Scarf Scizor is actually a pretty good suggestion- it gives you a 100% trapper of gengar and Starmie, but again, Empoleon and Dragonite are worrisome. So if you want to try scizor, which by no means is a bad suggestion, you'll need a mechanism of dealing with Empoleon and Dragonite- however this is pretty simple. I'm not sure if you've ever played with bulky Suicune but he works excellently- just take all of the SpAtk Evs and dump them in HP. This will help immensely with Empoleon, Starmie and Dragonite. It doesn't inhibit his sweeping much, either- the added bulk often times means he can squeeze an extra CM out, which significantly augments his attack power. If you want to get creative you can run Rest > HP and go for a Chesto Berry but it's up to you at that point.

If you don't like Scizor then, or bulky Suicune, there are alternatives. Scarf jirachi seems like a good fix for a number of reasons. First would be to help with Lucario, who currently is a tricky 'mon to deal with for this team. It mostly comes down to Uxie paralysis and/or Dragonite being very healthy. The other reason would be the slight stall weakness, as you could trick your choice scarf to get that annoying Skarmory or Gyarados or the like. The problem lies in that you can't run iron Head / Trick / fire Punch / Ice Punch / Thunderpunch to deal with everything you'd like him to, so you'll have to decide which threat concerns you least.

A really really quick thing, then I'm out. Whatever Scizor set you do decide on, if it's a scarf or if you keep standard or spdef CB you really might want pursuit. The reasoning for this is Metagross- if Rotom is removed, then really very little resists all of his attacks (as I'm sure you're aware). Particularly if you run Spdef, Pursuit could be just as useful for LO Starmie as Quick Attack. Anyways that's all I got, good team, i hope this helps!!

 

[alex 67]

Pretty nice team. I'd actually consider a scarfed Rotom-W over Scizor though. If Suicune is down then you could get fucked up by a Timid Heatran pretty bad. Not to mention this removes a Fire weakness as with Scizor 3 of your pokemon are weak to Fire-type attacks but more importantly it gives you a way to revenge kill Gengar, Starmie and other crap that ravages your team. (I think it even outspeeds Empoleon after an Agility although I'm not sure). This will weaken you to Blissey slightly but Dragonite and Metagross should still be a able to beat that annoying egg, plus you can give it a Scarf anyway. I think having Trick with a Choice Scarf would also greatly help your team also if you let an opposing pokemon get too many boosts and Rotom-W's Ghost-typing is also good for spinblocking and switching in to powerful Explosions. Not sure if you want to make this change or not but IMO it helps your team substantially.

 

[Faladran]

Airborne Electric-types are really problematic for this team. Rotom is less of an issue since this team is probably for wifi, but any good SubRoost Zapdos user will give you a lot of trouble. I think you should try a SubCharge Lanturn over Shaymin - it switches into the same things and helps to wall a lot of troublesome threats (LO Starmie, Suicune, most Jolteon, Zapdos, Rotom, etc).

To prevent Zapdos / Rotom from getting free subs on your lead, give Uxie 24 SAtk EVs and Psychic > Thunder Wave. I like U-turn's ability to maintain momentum, but you could replace it if you prefer the paralysis support. Either way, Psychic is helpful for clearing up the Electric weakness. Pretty solid otherwise, good luck!

 

[Eos]

Hi there! Your core looks great btw, except for the weekness to fire attacks once suicune (mostly) and nite are gone.
Uxie looks good actually. Not seen too often, but that can make it good and effective against other leads who set up rocks first turn or the like.
The Nite is pretty good seeing as it is the standard in all. A suggestion for that poke that you could test out would be to put a scarf on it:
Dragonite @ Choice Scarf
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Att/4 Def/252 Spe
-Dragon Claw (Does 86.2% - 101.5% to Kingdra who otherwise can do a nice amount of damage to your team if it doesn't use Outrage to soon.)

Your Scizor and Cune sets look very good, and effective.
Your Shaymin set should probably run Earth Power over hp fire to stop the ever so common Ape and Tran.
Also, your Metagross agility set looks promising because as a late sweeper it is nice.
Good job!

Hope this helped