Gen5 Weatherless HO (Peaked at 100+ with 1317 CRE)

[mehbear]

I fail @ Gen 5. I've used Hyper Offense to significant success in Gen 4, peaking at around 14xx CRE, but Gen 5 was never really the same. Tried a balance FWG core, stall, sun, rain, hail even but none of them really worked for me.

My best attempt at climbing the ladder has since been done with this team and I'm now seeking help on how to improve it.

Notable issues are the lack of a Ground-type to set up on Thunderwavers, or a Fire-type/ Guts mon to set up on Will-O-Wisp. Note that it's a fully physical HO team and the playstyle is different from other teams - switches are VERY rarely made, and the team revolves around long-term planning and strategic sacrificing to work.

AT A GLANCE

~~~~~

Mew @ Light Clay
Trait: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Nature: Timid (-Atk, +Spd)
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock​

Mew is usually my first choice for a lead - my team becomes surprisingly bulky behind Screens barring the odd crit. Taunt helps with slower Taunt mons, those that try to set up rocks of their own or stat up on me. Max speed means it's only really outsped by priority Taunt (rare) or Deoxys-S. Espeon used to fill this slot but Magic Bouncing back Stealth Rock was unreliable at best, and I needed rocks to net OHKOs on Rotom-W, Volcarona, and to break Dragonite's Multiscale. Deoxys-S was too frail to get both screens and rocks up, Spikes off Deoxys-D would be slower and not as useful, and having Cresselia's greater bulk and Lunar Dance would be very cool but it's too Taunt- and general setup bait.

It would be nice if it had room for Will-O-Wisp particularly for Scizor and Tyranitar, or something like Explosion or U-turn (if it were a Jirachi or Celebi) so as not to lose momentum, but I find the current moves more useful. Synchronize on Mew also serves to Toxic forgetful Politoed and paralyze Jirachi so it has its uses. I usually Taunt lead Tyranitars and Light Screen against Politoed.

Haxorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Mold Breaker
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Brick Break​

Dragon Dance Haxorus is fairly self-explanatory so there's nothing much to say really. After a Dragon Dance he hits as hard as a Banded Haxorus with the speed of a Scarfed one. He destroys Levitating Steel-types and 2HKOes Ferrothorn with Brick Break, opening the way for the rest of my team to sweep. I used to run a Choice Band Rivalry set but switched it to DD for more versatility and consistency when I got further up the ladder: for example, I miss a 2HKO on female Scizor.

Cloyster (M) @ White Herb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spd
Nature: Naughty (+Atk, -SDef)
- Shell Smash
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast
- Hydro Pump​

Between Reflect and his base 180 Defense, Cloyster sets up on dragons locked into Outrage. I went with White Herb over Life Orb to further preserve his insane physical bulk: Conkeldurr's Mach Punch does an amusing 6% behind screens. Its unique spread probably needs some explanation: Adamant Rock Blast OHKOes Tyranitar and some Rotom-W after Stealth Rock; additionally, I find that Scarfed Landoruses are too rare to give up the power boost. Nonetheless, I am open to making it more bulky or perhaps running Naive LO. His main enemies are entry hazards and Excadrill- he needs 2 Shell Smashes to outrun Excadrill in Sand (never going to happen).

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Nature: Jolly (+Spd, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge​

This Gyarados is an absolute beast. Moxie means the destruction snowballs ridiculously quickly if you can't kill it off fast - which is much easier said than done. Light Screen means it survives Rotom-W's Thunderbolt to 2HKO with Miss Edge - and he has good natural bulk too, surviving Balloon Excadrill's Rock Slide even WITHOUT screens.

Scizor (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 Att / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower​

Scizor's awesome typing and natural bulk helps it set up on so many things: Reuniclus, non-Fire-attack Tyranitar, various Choice-locked dragons, other Choiced mons such as Scizor and Mamoswine. +2 Max Attack LO Bullet Punch KOes lots of things after SR, particularly Volcarona and Chandelure. Bug Bite deals with Rotom-W - and in general, many of his supposed counters can't stand up to +2 Bug Bites, like Jellicent, who is 2HKOed. Barring the odd powerful STAB fire move, which you usually can see coming a mile off, Scizor is never OHKOed behind screens.

Lucario (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Steadfast
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 HP / 252 Spd
Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- ExtremeSpeed
- Close Combat
- Crunch​

Gen 4's top late-game cleaner returns for more +2 ExtremeSpeed abusing fun. He doesn't outspeed much of the metagame, but he's my best switch-in to Scarf Jirachi (Iron Head me more, oh do I love those speed boosts). Earthquake gives good neutral coverage alongside STAB Close Combat and decimates the aforementioned Jirachi. He has similar weaknesses to Scizor and is completely walled by Gengar, so I typically don't bring him out early. Giving him Crunch to hit Psychics and Ghosts: Reuniclus, Gengar, and Celebi.

~~~~~​

THREATS
That this is a Hyper Offense team means I don't switch much, usually only from Mew to another mon. The only time I switch after that is if the opponent's move is obvious and forced, and there is little risk - and even then only rarely. Offensive mons have no chance to boost up enough to be a threat to my team, and typical defensive walls are not
big problems either because they can't stand up to a consistent barrage of attacks.

The main things that consistently give me issues are:

Excadrill: He doesn't even need a Swords Dance to tear through my team. If he comes in when Screens are down, I am forced to sacrifice several mons just to bring him down: Cloyster can survive an unboosted Rock Slide to Hydro Miss (good chance to KO) or Icicle Spear (no chance) and priority can finish the job.

Rotom-W: I can usually break him with brute force, but both Cloyster and Gyarados fail to OHKO him reliably barring crithax. Thankfully, Stone Edge has a 12.5% chance to crit while all I need is one hit of Cloyster's Rock Blast to crit.

Celebi: Basically walls my whole team. Cloyster has no chance of setting up on him with his low SDef and HP Fire makes quick work of Scizor and Lucario. I usually spam strong priority in hopes of bringing him down.

It does have some pretty glaring issues, but all in all, it's a very very fun team to play with :D

~~~~~

LAST GLANCE

 

[~Golden Emp]

Mold Breaker? MOLD BREAKER????
Dude, use Rivalry with Male. Very few people care about gender, so they all leave it in the pre-chosen option (male, lol)
C'mon, it 2HKO's Skarmory at +1 with Outrage, something not everyone can do ;)

 

[BabySh0es]

im a huge fan of moxie gyarados BUT it needs a little more support then what you are giving it. Two teamates that he loves to have are magnezone and latios. The reason for this is that magnezone can trap pokemon like bronzong, ferrothorn, and skarmory that give it issues setting up, and latios easily deals with rotom w who is basically gyarados' arch nemesis. Also running ice fang, waterfall, and earthquake has worked well in my experience.

So changing haxorus to a latios (probably specs) and changing lucario to a magnezone would already help this team out i think. Also cloyster is kinda.....meh

edit: and if you have issues with excadrill, maybe swap cloyster for a rotom w of your own?

 

[Dragonite_FTW]

One small note before i make a suggestion or two. Why does your lucario have a naughty nature. I see no reason why it shouldn't run jolly but that;s just a nitpick. Countering celebi isn't as hard as it seems. either you can switch in scizor and go straight to bug bite or forgo setting up with cloyster and just hit it off the bat with icicle spear. Rotom-W on the other hand is a more difficult story. My best suggestion would be to get a special sweeper i.e. latios or Infernape with energy ball.

 

[mehbear]

@Golden Emp on the contrary I find that a significant number of people change their mons' gender to female. Not KOing Skarm isn't so bad but missing out on 2KOing female Scizors means Haxo is going down.

@BabySh0es Haxo and Scizor bait in and KO Ferro and Skarm very reliably, and Gyara sets up on Bronzong just fine. Specs Latios would hurt my team more than help it- Draco Meteor hits hard but it means I'll have to switch out, and I can't afford to give a free turn for something to come in and set up. I wouldnt be able to scratch Blissey with anything but Psyshock, which in turn something like Tyranitar sets up on.

@Dragonite_FTW yep, whoops, my bad X: re. Celebi, ones with HP Fire (ie, virtually all of them) outspeed and roast me. I'm hesitant to try a special attacker on what's supposed to be a physically based HO team, but maybe I'll give Mixape a try and get back to you.

Thanks, everyone, and keep the suggestions coming!

 

[Valentine]

I'd like to start off by saying Hyper Offense is one of my favorite strategies, and one of the funnest to play. You get mad props for running one so successfully. With that said, no team is perfect, here is what I would change. Right off the bat, I recommend swapping Mew for Deoxys-S. You lose a bit of bulk (a lot of bulk, actually xD), but you gain a ridiculous amount of speed. Definitely test it out, Taunts and Screens coming from a blazing 504 speed is only shut down by Pranksters, which are pretty rare in the long run. Next, i'd put Intimidate on Gyara. Not a lot on your team wants to have powerful fighting, fire or water attacks thrown at them, and this might help you save a pokemon you might otherwise sacrifice. I know Moxie is invaluable on the sweep, but Intimidate also forces the switch more often, allowing an extra Dragon Dance. Next, run Crunch/Stone Edge over Earthquake on Lucario. Rock/Fighting coverage is very effective neutral coverage, which is why Terrakion is considered to have excellent offensive typing. Here, Stone Edge mostly helps out with Flying types. However, Crunch will help you take out ghosts and psychics on your sweep, which means you won't have to worry about taking them out on another mons sweep. Keep Mold Breaker on Hax, smart players switch their genders.

Once opposing sweepers get going, like a +2 Excadrill in sand, or a +2 Thundurous in rain, there isn't much that can stop them. Your priorities can help with opposing sweepers, but what is your usual way of dealing with Excadrill, Dragon Dancers, etc? EDIT: Oh i just read the bit at the bottom. I'll think of a mon that you can swap out for Exca in particular. Good luck, looking forward to seeing this team copypasted and HO used more in the meta:P

Deoxys-S:

Hide

@Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Taunt / Superpower
-Stealth Rocks

 

[Aeromence]

Nice team, and I now know i'm not the only one that uses dual creens mew. Anyway, use magic coat/U-turn over taunt and change scizor to a bulky version, it adds some bulk onto this offencive team:

Scizor @ Life Orb / Lum Berry
Trait: Technician
EVs: 232 HP / 56 Atk / 208 SDef / 12 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Bug Bite
- Roost

 

[Jayde]

I'd go for leftovers if you use Aeromence's set, since it allows you to set up more without worrying about survivability, and Lum Berry has kind of lost utility since Darkrai has been banned, I don't think it's that useful anymore.

 

[San_Pellegrino]

Hi,

A big problem with your team that really stands out for me is the lack of immediate speed, which can make it very hard for you to revenge things like Nasty Plot Thunderus, Sub+disable/ps Gengar and Excadrill. Here, I think a Scarf Rotom-w will fit very well over Cloyster. With a moveset of Trick | Hydro Pump | Volt Switch | Signal Beam, you will be able to cripple Ferrothorn, and hit Celebi/Lati@s hard with Signal Beam. Max out special attack and use enough speed to outrun 361 speed stat Starmie w/Scarf and put the rest of the EVs in HP. Addtionally, Mew seems to be the weakest link within this team because of its lackluster speed and it being set up bait for strong faster sweepers like SD Landorus, NP Thunderus, etc. who don't need their weathers to break your team. This is why I think Deoxys-s will be much more useful here. You can use the same moveset and EVs, but it will be much more effective in doing its job of setting up Screens quickly and Taunting anything that may try to setup.Definitely use Crunch on Lucario to hit end game Reuniclus, Celebi, etc.

Good luck!

 

[EspyOwner]

First nitpick that may help you in the long run, Spore Breloom isn't going to be able to put itself to sleep. Mostly becase Synchro doesn't work with sleep/freeze, but also because Breloom will more-than-likely already be poisoned.

I also suggest Crunch not only for Gengar/Psychics/etc., but also for Jellicent who doesn't take enough from +2 EQ, and then WoWs back.
Or you could replace it for Ice Punch, in case of Gliscor threats.

There's just so many better options than EQ for the last slot, imo. It shouldn't really ever have the need to run EQ.

 

[Pocket]

Change Lucario's EQ to Crunch, since your team would benefit considerably from the removal of Jellicent and even Slowbro. You may want to consider making Lucario an all-out Attacker that doesn't get walled by hardly anything. If you replace Swords Dance for HP Ice, you get the full coverage to even take on Dragonite and Gliscor. Adamant will still let you OHKO Gliscor reliably, but if you switch Lucario's nature to either Lonely or Naughty, it can take out bulky DDnite after SR damage as well.

I would also go with Bounce over Earthquake on Gyarados, which will give you a solid answer to Dragon, Flying, and Water Types. It will also provide Gyarados with an extra turn of Leftovers healing. You may want to consider going with Life Orb, though, since it will let Gyarados muscle past Rotom-W after some residual damage and a DD. With Life Orb, +1 Bounce kills Latios and does 84% min to 252 HP/0 Def Gastrodon.

I second Aeromence's suggestion to make your Scizor more defensive, since it can actually take a hit quite nicely, providing you with some useful defensive pivots. Superpower is the way to go for this team, imo, but another option is Baton Pass, allowing you to pass SD boosts to your other physical sweepers when Scizor can't handle what the opponent brought out. It also provides the momentum of U-turn as well, which will come in handy for this type of playstyle.

 

[mehbear]

@Valentine getting an extra DD would be great since Rotom neither walls nor revenges me at +2/+2, but I can't really see how Intimidate helps get the extra turn... please clarify? Agreed, anyway, HO is fun and fast but with offensive threats like Exca and defensive ones like Quagsire it's harder than ever to pull off - but if you find a solution to Exca/ Rotom/ Celebi you're more than welcome to share

@Aeromence/ Jayde sorry, but I think I'm sticking with my current Scizor to KO Skarm and Ferro. Without Superpower Skarm Spikes up and phazes me, and I'm not sure if Jellicent is 2HKOed by Bug Bite with less Atk investment.

@San_Pellegrino that Rotom sounds interesting, but as an HO team I'm hesitant to spam Choice attacks, particularly ones as easily walled as Water and Electric, because it means switching and giving away free turns. I try not to let mons like Gengar and Thundurus come in easily (team preview helps), and if they come in after something's died it means that I'm all set up myself. I know it seems problematic on paper, but I actually haven't had many issues with the genies- I'll definitely bear Deoxys-S in mind though and most likely test it after I settle my other problems X:

@EspyOwner lol, discovered the Synchrofail for myself earlier and forgot to change it >.> but yep, Crunch on Lucario it is.

@Pocket those are some impressive calcs and some really intriguing suggestions! I never considered BP, but it might JUST work. Passing +2 to Gyarados would greatly help it get past Rotom - will get to testing it ASAP.

Thanks again all.

 

[Guitar]

Taunt over EQ on Gyara is soo much better, If you don't have it, Ferrothorn can easily wall you :/