Metagame Generation 8 Ubers UU

[ilikeeatingcrayons]

approved by Imperial
Welcome to SS Ubers UU! This is a tier based on the retroactive application of the Ubers UU system to generation 8. The discord can be accessed here!

Banlist

Pokemon

• Blissey
• Calyrex-Ice
• Calyrex-Shadow
• Cinderace
• Darmantan-Galar
• Ditto
• Dracovish
• Eternatus
• Ferrothorn
• Groudon
• Ho-Oh
• Kyogre
• Landorus
• Landorus-Therian
• Lunala
• Marshadow
• Mewtwo
• Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
• Pheromosa
• Rayquaza
• Shuckle
• Slurpuff
• Weavile
• Xerneas
• Yveltal
• Zamazenta-Crowned
• Zekrom
• Zygarde-50

Abilities

• Power Construct
• Moody

Challenge Code

/challenge gen8ubers @@@-Yveltal, -eternatus, -calyrex-shadow, -necrozma-dusk-mane, -xerneas, -kyogre, -marshadow, -zekrom, -blissey, -groudon, -ho-oh, -darmanitan-galar, -dracovish, -ferrothorn, -landorus-therian, -weavile, -shuckle, -zamazenta-crowned, -ditto, -cinderace, -calyrex-ice, -rayquaza, -landorus, -slurpuff, -lunala, -power construct, -Moody, -Mewtwo, -Pheromosa, -Zygarde

Viability Rankings

March 2025

SS Ubers UU Viability Rankings​

Top​

Top of the top. Rulers of the metagame. These Pokémon fit on many playstyles and need little to no support to function.
S-

Giratina-Origin

​

High​

Meta defining, but not to the extent of the Pokemon in the Top rank. These Pokemon need minimal support to function.
A+

Naganadel

Solgaleo

Urshifu Single Strike

Zamazenta-Hero
A

Chansey

Melmetal

Necrozma Dawn Wings
A-

Dugtrio

Genesect

Heatran

Regieleki

Reshiram

Tapu Fini

​

Mid​

Solid Pokemon, but they don't shape the meta like the higher ranks. They have a defined role which is often applicable and usually quite valuable. These Pokemon always need some support to bring out the best in them.
B+

Buzzwole

Magearna

Slowbro
B

Excadrill

Kyurem-White

Mandibuzz

Moltres

Skarmory

Tapu Koko
B-

Clefable

Garchomp

Lugia

Spectrier

Low​

Niche Pokemon that have little to no effect on the metagame, being rarely applicable, highly specific or simply not that valuable in the current meta. Using these Pokemon requires you to focus most of the team on supporting it. Oftentimes when a Pokemon only fits on one specific archetype, they'll reside in this tier.
C+

Hippowdon

Palkia

Porygon2

Tapu Lele

Toxapex

Tyranitar
Volcarona
C

Dragapult

Giratina

Grimmsnarl

Hatterene

Kyurem-Black

Mew:
Slowking Galar
C-

Aerodactyl

Blacephalon

Dialga

Dracozolt

Hawlucha
Marowak Alola

Rillaboom

Scolipede
Tangrowth

Bottom​

Pokemon of two categories fit here. The ones that have the smallest niche in the meta. Their use is not often recommended, but not entirely discouraged. And the Pokémon that simply cannot be used in another tier.

Kartana

Ribombee

Tornadus-Therian

Kyurem

Unranked​

Pokemon that did not recieve enough votes to remain on the VR (5 Unrank Votes)

Aegislash

Bisharp

Conkeldurr

Moltres-Galar

Old VRs

December 2024

SS Ubers UU Viability Rankings​

Top​

Top of the top. Rulers of the metagame. These Pokémon fit on many playstyles and need little to no support to function.
S

Naganadel
S-

Giratina-Origin

High​

Meta defining, but not to the extent of the Pokemon in the Top rank. These Pokemon need minimal support to function.
A+

Necrozma Dawn Wings
A

Genesect

Solgaleo

Magearna
A-

Zamazenta-Hero

Melmetal

Heatran

Buzzwole

Reshiram

Toxapex

Regieleki

Mid​

Solid Pokemon, but they don't shape the meta like the higher ranks. They have a defined role which is often applicable and usually quite valuable. These Pokemon always need some support to bring out the best in them.
B+

Kyurem-White

Tapu Fini

Urshifu Single Strike

Mandibuzz

Porygon2

Dugtrio

Tapu Koko
B

Spectrier

Skarmory
B-

Chansey

Slowbro

Tyranitar

Tapu Lele

Low​

Niche Pokemon that have little to no effect on the metagame, being rarely applicable, highly specific or simply not that valuable in the current meta. Using these Pokemon requires you to focus most of the team on supporting it. Oftentimes when a Pokemon only fits on one specific archetype, they'll reside in this tier.
C+

Kyurem-Black

Excadrill
C

Mew

Dragapult

Moltres

Hippowdon

Dialga

Palkia
C-

Garchomp

Clefable

Dracozolt

Lugia

Rillaboom

Grimmsnarl

Kartana

Bottom​

Pokemon of two categories fit here. The ones that have the smallest niche in the meta. Their use is not often recommended, but not entirely discouraged. And the pokemon that simply cannot be used in another tier.

Ribombee

Aegislash

Moltres-Galar

Hawlucha

Bisharp

Aerodactyl

Scolipede

Giratina

Kyurem

Unranked​

Pokemon that received only D tier ranking or only 1 C- tier ranking

Tornadus-Therian

Hatterene

Victini

Blacephalon

Zeraora

Araquanid

Conkeldurr

Chandelure

Sample Teams

Cosmic Power Solg HO by Lyra
NagDugEleki by ilikeeatingcrayons and TubeKnight
Screens HO by angl3r
Webs HO by angl3r
EPack Nag BO by Addison
NagDugGene by TubeKnight
Double FIght Fport by Poosh_i
CM Lugia Balance by Addison
Double Setup by Addison
Double Dragon by Addison
Excazolt Sand by Poosh_i
Hippo Kyu Semi Stall by Lyra
Eterrain by angl3r

Differences from S/V

• Recovery moves like Rest, Recover, Roost, Soft-Boiled, and Slack Off are 16 PP instead of 8.
• Instead of Snow, generation 8 has Hail, which does 1/16 of your Pokemon's health in damage at the end of every turn --unless they're an ice type
• Wicked Blow is 80 base power, as opposed to s/v's 75.
• Dauntless Shield activates upon every switch-in, unlike the once per game effect of S/V
• Moves on this list do not exist in generation 8

thanks to Lasen for his list of differnces relevant to Ubers in this post which has been adapted to Ubers UU.

 

[Poosh_i]

Personal preliminary threats:

- Strong, fast, a solid pivot and able to fit all of the coverage it could want. Life Orb and Band are both sets I have seen, though adamant, modest or mixed scarf sets I think could be explored. You have to account for this thing when building or it will methodically break through your team. is the best single defensive answer, though options like and can also be considered.

- Nasty Plot sets and choice scarf are both very solid. Poison STAB isn't insanely valuable here at the moment so it can drop it for options like Spikes or Toxic Spikes if it chooses.

- M2 does M2 things. Nasty Plot breaks through quite a lot of teams as there are few options that can take it on and live a +2 psystrike or any of its coverage options. An underrated defensive switch in option in might be worth looking into to click teleport and bring in your speed control. (However I do expect Shadow Ball M2 to be more common here which would hinder this)

- Though I prefer the support set, self TR is an option that can work well. Struggles with chansey using that set through. Not nearly as broken as it was in SV.

- Basically the only real ground in the tier. Has a couple of offensive sets that take a bit of time to get going but immuneless ground + dragon moves / toxic make it tougher to check defensively long-term. Another case where is decent defensively against non-toxic sets.

 

[ilikeeatingcrayons]

Viability Rankings!

March 2025

SS Ubers UU Viability Rankings​

Top​

Top of the top. Rulers of the metagame. These Pokémon fit on many playstyles and need little to no support to function.​

S-

Giratina-Origin

​

High​

Meta defining, but not to the extent of the Pokemon in the Top rank. These Pokemon need minimal support to function.​

A+

Naganadel

Solgaleo

Urshifu Single Strike

Zamazenta-Hero
A

Chansey

Melmetal

Necrozma Dawn Wings
A-

Dugtrio

Genesect

Heatran

Regieleki

Reshiram

Tapu Fini

​

Mid​

Solid Pokemon, but they don't shape the meta like the higher ranks. They have a defined role which is often applicable and usually quite valuable. These Pokemon always need some support to bring out the best in them.​

B+

Buzzwole

Magearna

Slowbro
B

Excadrill

Kyurem-White

Mandibuzz

Moltres

Skarmory

Tapu Koko
B-

Clefable

Garchomp

Lugia

Spectrier

Low​

Niche Pokemon that have little to no effect on the metagame, being rarely applicable, highly specific or simply not that valuable in the current meta. Using these Pokemon requires you to focus most of the team on supporting it. Oftentimes when a Pokemon only fits on one specific archetype, they'll reside in this tier.​

C+

Hippowdon

Palkia

Porygon2

Tapu Lele

Toxapex

Tyranitar
Volcarona
C

Dragapult

Giratina

Grimmsnarl

Hatterene

Kyurem-Black

Mew:
Slowking Galar
C-

Aerodactyl

Blacephalon

Dialga

Dracozolt

Hawlucha
Marowak Alola

Rillaboom

Scolipede
Tangrowth

Bottom​

Pokemon of two categories fit here. The ones that have the smallest niche in the meta. Their use is not often recommended, but not entirely discouraged. And the Pokémon that simply cannot be used in another tier.​

Kartana

Ribombee

Tornadus-Therian

Kyurem

Unranked​

Pokemon that did not recieve enough votes to remain on the VR (5 Unrank Votes)​

Aegislash

Bisharp

Conkeldurr

Moltres-Galar

Old VRs

December 2024

SS Ubers UU Viability Rankings​

Top​

Top of the top. Rulers of the metagame. These Pokémon fit on many playstyles and need little to no support to function.​

S

Naganadel
S-

Giratina-Origin

High​

Meta defining, but not to the extent of the Pokemon in the Top rank. These Pokemon need minimal support to function.​

A+

Necrozma Dawn Wings
A

Genesect

Solgaleo

Magearna
A-

Zamazenta-Hero

Melmetal

Heatran

Buzzwole

Reshiram

Toxapex

Regieleki

Mid​

Solid Pokemon, but they don't shape the meta like the higher ranks. They have a defined role which is often applicable and usually quite valuable. These Pokemon always need some support to bring out the best in them.​

B+

Kyurem-White

Tapu Fini

Urshifu Single Strike

Mandibuzz

Porygon2

Dugtrio

Tapu Koko
B

Spectrier

Skarmory
B-

Chansey

Slowbro

Tyranitar

Tapu Lele

Low​

Niche Pokemon that have little to no effect on the metagame, being rarely applicable, highly specific or simply not that valuable in the current meta. Using these Pokemon requires you to focus most of the team on supporting it. Oftentimes when a Pokemon only fits on one specific archetype, they'll reside in this tier.​

C+

Kyurem-Black

Excadrill
C

Mew

Dragapult

Moltres

Hippowdon

Dialga

Palkia
C-

Garchomp

Clefable

Dracozolt

Lugia

Rillaboom

Grimmsnarl

Kartana

Bottom​

Pokemon of two categories fit here. The ones that have the smallest niche in the meta. Their use is not often recommended, but not entirely discouraged. And the pokemon that simply cannot be used in another tier.​

Ribombee

Aegislash

Moltres-Galar

Hawlucha

Bisharp

Aerodactyl

Scolipede

Giratina

Kyurem

Unranked​

Pokemon that received only D tier ranking or only 1 C- tier ranking​

Tornadus-Therian

Hatterene

Victini

Blacephalon

Zeraora

Araquanid

Conkeldurr

Chandelure

 

[Poosh_i]

Time to chime in again now that there has been some big changes since my last post.

this guy is really really good, and has a lot of nifty tools that I initially overlooked. Twave is big and turns your somewhat middling speed on its head. Calm Mind feels a lot better here in testing than in SV, partially as a result of there not being an Arceus form that does this better. That immense physical bulk makes you hard to break and there are a handful of ways you can cheese out Gira-o who relies on poltergeist to hurt you (as unhinged as it sounds, options like grassy seed, kasib or even enigma berry). Choiced sets may also be worth looking more into.

was being heavily slept on initially, but with 130 base attack, unnerfed dauntless shield and an unrivalled speed tier, Zama is a shockingly great offensive piece. It has the coverage to seriously dent or even kill many big threats in the tier with a couple good item choices and itself is very difficult to revenge. Banded, Howl or even options like Expert Belt can leave your opponent guessing.

i think ended up a bit higher than it ultimately should be. A-/B+ i believe to be a bit more of an apt ranking, though double dance and other funky cm sets are still very solid imo. Even for the lack of grounds in the tier though, i don't find the support set that amazing outside of being a tr setter.

 

[ilikeeatingcrayons]

Dump post to talk about random thoughts on the meta

Top mons

Naganadel has proved to be a major threat, surging to #1 in usage (After Zygarde left the tier). Whether it be Nasty Plot or Scarf, the mon has plenty of variety despite not using too many different tools. On top of Dragon STAB and Fire Blast, Nagan can run U-Turn, Spikes, Tspikes, switch between Modest or Timid on Scarf sets.

Giratina-Origin has seen high usage, rising to #2 in usage. It has been refered to as the swiss knife of the tier, with plenty of different coverage moves. It can be offensive, defenseive, utility, a mix of 2 or all 3, whatever you need.

Mons that I *personally* think are better than the VR suggests

Zamazenta-Hero has been rising in usage in regular battles (8 placements) and was one of the most used mons in week 1 of Ubers UU PL (one of the 2 mons with 3 uses out of 3 games). It has strong STAB, good coverage, and good stats, it is an excellent mon that I think belongs on more teams.

Melmetal is the trick room mon, NDW may be legal, but melmetal is the real star. It has absurd damage and incredible cheese potential. It's definitely bias that makes me think it should be higher, cause I love trick room, but I truely believe in how good it is.

It enables Nagan greatly, helping to put pressure onto mons like Heatran and Chansey. Some Heatran chose to run Shed Shell, which can make Dug seem useless, but no lefties means Tran is getting chipped down much faster over the couse of a game. Overall, Dug can really put in work.

Chansey is objectively the best special wall of the tier. With proper play it really is that gal. It has status, hazards, pivoting.

Random opinions on middling mons

I honestly used to think this was really bad, but im starting to come around to it. Chansey is an obvious wall, but its not impossible to play around it. It definitly deserves its place.

Goatbro, great neutral physdef wall, great pivot for trick room. Melbro is an incredible option for when you want to bring trick room but not dedicate the whole team.

It still feels like a fake mon, but I'm coming around to it. It has an absurd attack stat and can set up, plus it still has recovery this gen. It loses a bunch of top mons tho (Nagan, Some NDW, Zama).

niche unranked stuff (mostly tr)

Hatterene was recently unranked since it only had one C- ranking, but it also poped up on a winning UUBPL game. I still think its an interesting mon, but SS Ubers UU feels like it appreciates trick room setters that lost longer and are more consistant in lengthier games.

Mostly marowak alola, but I have seen both. Thick Club is essentially just worse huge power, especially for Kantonian. But that doesn't mean they don't have a small niche. Alolan-Maro has a lot more theoretical use because of Fire/Ghost typing, utilizing Rock Head better due to Blitz. But STAB EQ is always strong, especially in a tier where the next best ground probably ends up being Garchomp.

Obviously Eruption spam is strong, can safely run HDB or go for gold with Specs or Charcoal if you run it with Hatt. It underspeeds (and thus outspeeds) Melmetal, with makes the mirror safer.

Another option for the ground slot, CB Ice Shard seems interesting. Needs a role to ohko Nagan so, not the best. But it revenges basically anything thats ice weak after some chip.

Don't use it, I'm looking at you Finch.

Ban Anything?

No one is talking about it, so I will. Sandslash is bro-

Nothing is ban worthy right now. The only things strong enough to look at are Naganadel and Regieleki, but counterplay has appeared. The metagame needs more time to develop, because its entirely possible something needs to get banned, although I doubt that.

 

[OceanicGamer]

No one is talking about it, so I will. Sandslash is bro-

banned


And I’m not talking about sandslash

 

[ilikeeatingcrayons]

First tiering survey is now live! This survey will close on January 5, 2025 11:59 PM, in 7 days, however I will announce if there is an extention. We will be taking particular interests in anyone who has played a round of SS in UUbers PL. Please take the time to fill it out as it helps ensure the metagame is in a good place.
HERE is the survey, please respond!

 

[Addison]

First tiering survey is now live! This survey will close on January 5, 2025 11:59 PM, in 7 days, however I will announce if there is an extention. We will be taking particular interests in anyone who has played a round of SS in UUbers PL. Please take the time to fill it out as it helps ensure the metagame is in a good place.
HERE is the survey, please respond!

Just voicing my opinons here that I actually think the current status of bans/unbans are fine.

Not for an unban on this whatsoever, the potency of Special Attackers is already overwhelming and introducing a mon that poor Chansey can't guard against sounds absurdly unhealthy for the meta.

In spite of the lack of grounds I haven't found Eleki to be too overwhelming here yet. The amount of dragons plus the fact that its support piece Koko isn't all that great versus much, outside of tanking a wicked blow or maybe being a nice Zama switchin - both important, but it has massive 4 moveslot syndrome, and struggles to do anything when staring down setup threats. Twave/taunt exists but then youre risking your terrain setter. They also have to account for things like Dugtrio or Sand just absolutely countering the matchup.

Not very many thoughts on these guys, seem relatively balanced here, a reasonable amount of solid checks exist.

As UUbPL's biggest Melm user I am here to say....its not crazy good. I think people are waking up to the importance of a steel resist (Solgaleo is a major stop, or as Poosh_i has demonstrated Moltres too). Melm just isnt gonna be consistent. Both times I've brought it in UUbPL I have felt like I have won or lost the game on team preview.

 

[Finchely]

I wanna voice my concerns about Naganadel

While I enjoy the spikes pivot and scarf sets, I think that Nasty Plot Nadel is the most unhealthy factor in the metagame right now. Nothing short of Chansey, SpD SpD Heatra, or SpD NDW are capable of reliably taking on this beast. To be fair, Chansey is good, but still abusable, and it's not easy to fit Chansey on every team. SpD Heatran and NDW are also just not great, and not easily slot into faster-paced teams. Furthermore, even these Pokemon aren't really that great at taking on NDW. Chansey can't deal significant, immediate damage to Nadel, and has to resort to using either Twave or teleporting out to a faster Pokemon. If Chansey becomes chipped to roughly half health over the course of a game (not very difficult to do with rocks + volturn), Nasty Plot Nadel doesn't actually mind staying in on Chansey (given that the Chansey has revealed no twave), since Chansey can't actually prevent Nadel from boosting up to the point where Draco Meteor breaks Chansey. NDW also nearly dies to +2 lorb Draco after any significant chip. Funnily enough, Heatran can be argued to be the best wall to NDW, given that Heatran both walls Nadel's attacks and forces it out with a supereffective Earth Power. That said, Heatran is just not really good into anything else so it struggles to fit on most teams, and is also liable to being worn down by volturn due to its reliance on Leftovers for healing. And this is all without mentioning how stupid fast Nadel is. Base 121 speed means that nothing relevant outspeeds and forces out Nadel after it gets a +1 speed boost, and you're forced to fall back on the less-than-desirable methods of defense that I outlined before.

I don't actively play this meta, but I occasionally help out my teammates in UUbersPL if they need tests and nobody else is around. I don't actively build for this meta, and so I usually only really bring this one team to tests. It's a team Crayons sent me a while ago, which I then modified to suit my tastes. It's not a good team by most means and has many flaws. But it's Zamazenta + NP Nadel volturn. And that alone is enough to win me more test games than I realistically should be winning. It's basically the first thing I check on my teammates team, "can their team beat NP Nadel". Those teams thankfully tend not to make it to the actual tournament match cause we end up patching the Nadel matchup. But asides from the Nadel matchup, those teams were all interesting and competent. I know it sounds stupid to say "It was a good team if you ignore this fatal flaw", but the point that I'm trying to make, is that Nadel is limiting the format right now. Nadel pidgeonholes teams into running either Chansey, or playing fast enough that Nadel can't sweep.

I do not enjoy what Nadel does to this metagame, and I hope that the council will consider it for tiering action.

 

[ilikeeatingcrayons]

vesp forgot to announce it here but I am in fact tier leader

 

[Addison]

I completely forgot in my previous post to voice that I am also pro a Naganadel ban. Im personally fine with the meta as is but its also undeniable that Naganadal forces specific teambuilding (chansey, heatran, or dw). Would say im about 65-35 in favor of ban. The meta is playable but Naga is very overwhelming in the builder.

 

[Poosh_i]

Also in support of getting rid of nag. It both requires very specific defensive pieces to actually deal with (most of which being very exploitable, passive or still not great at taking a +2 Draco). Very few naturally faster revenging tools, and as a result of it being able to get free speed boosts off of a kill you cannot just sack stuff to revenge it either. Just about every other uber in the tier has reliable and more splashable defensive answers.

 

[TubeKnight]

Seeing all this talk about Naganadel being broken made me want to say a little bit. Personally, I think it's a very strong, very threatening sweeper. Definintely the best mon in the tier. However, I believe it has reasonable answers and that it isn't a massive problem or anything, at least not in my experience in the tier. Chansey, Heatran, and NDW have been mentioned and they all fit on a wide enough variety of teams that it's not unreasonable to use them, but I can understand not wanting to use any of them. That said, not using a defensive answer or even if your defensive answer is taken down does not mean that you lose. Offensive answers exist: Extreme Speed Genesect and Urshifu can revenge with priority, although the latter does need to win a mind game, and Zamazenta can take a hit if it's not boosted. Forcing Draco Meteor to remove a boost, while costly, is a way to allow something to take a hit and while Naganadel isn't Deoxys levels of frail, a decently strong attack while generally take it down, especially if you consider hazards and life orb chip damage, which can also sometimes chip Naganadel into range of Dugtrio Sucker Punch or a more offensive Giratina's Shadow Sneak. I believe there's reasonable counterplay, and I've never felt that Naganadel was broken. Overall, everyone else has a point. It is hard to deal with. But is it unreasonable to do so? I don’t think so.

 

[OceanicGamer]

Survey Results!

How much do you enjoy this tier?
Qualified- 7.5/10
Unqualified- 8.1/10

How competitive do you find this tier?
Qualified- 6.8/10
Unqualified- 7.2/10

How much would you support a Regieleki ban?
Qualified- 3.2/10
Unqualified- 3.1/10

How much would you support a Naganadel ban?
Qualified- 4.8/10
Unqualified- 5.5/10

How much would you support a Zamazenta ban?
Qualified- 2.9/10
Unqualified- 3.36/10

How much would you support a Giratina-Origin ban?
Qualified- 2.17/10
Unqualified- 4/10

How much would you support a Melmetal ban?
Qualified- 4/10
Unqualified- 2.91/10

How much would you support a Mewtwo UNBAN?
Qualified- 5.17/10
Unqualified- 3.9/10

Things to note:
The trends are very interesting. The qualified playerbase seems to be more reluctant about banning stuff than the unqualified, and the reverse is true for unbanning stuff. A Naganadel ban seems to get the highest score on the survey, and a Mewtwo unban is also somewhat high. The council will look into these and decide on actions.

 

[ilikeeatingcrayons]

First Council Voting Slate
Council has decided to suspect test Naganadel and do nothing to Mewtwo. More information on the suspect can be found in our Discord Server here.

 

[Kanha Greninja]

So i got suspect reqs for Naganadel here is my thoughts
1. Naganadel is super good it can break through a bunch of mons in the tier with a bit of chip damage or 1 nasty plot it can also keep momentum with u turn though it loses either fire blast or sludge wave on its nasty plot movesets which can sometimes be an issue if you want to sweep late game and but is really nice on hazard stacking teams scarf sets are great aswell and outspeeding scarf Dugtrio is always great i really like the moveset variety on Naganadel but you only have 4 moveslots you can also run spikes instead of sludge wave on your scarf set to presuure the opposing team a lot more on switches.
2. Checks/Counters/Revenge Killers There isnt a shortage of checks to Naganadel both offensive and defensive checks and you dont have to go out of your way to fit them on your team either... here is only 1 true counter to Naganadel that is Chansey... it is imo one of the best mons in this tier not only for Naganadel but also for other special attackers like NDW, Special Eleki Scarf Genesect, some variants of Giratina-O and so on therefore its not restrictive on your building at all
Checks include Heatran, Specially Defensive NDW, Lugia, Solgaleo (Somewhat) and Magearna ( Somewhat) and 1 more that i cant reveal yet (maybe after semis).
Offensive Checks/ Revenge Killers include Scarf Genesect(Shift Gear Genesect too but it cant outspeed plot so it has to rely on espeed), Scarf Dugtrio/Band Dugtrio w/ Sucker Punch, Melmetal(Kinda) Regieleki and some i may have forgotten
3. Naganadel+Dugtrio combo is the only thing that makes Naganadel feel a bit banworthy but imo Naganadel is getting punished for Dugtrios trapping crimes just ban Dugtrio instead of Naganadel this will also remove arena trap
Overall: My opinion Naganadel is not overpowered i will be voting DNB

 

[Kanha Greninja]

The VR is not updated so here are some shifts i would like to see go up or down note this is my opinion
down to A- to B/B- Dugtrio is a huge problem to this mon not only that but it doesnt do much to the steel types in the tier it also fodder for substitute mons like some Giratina, Kyurem White, some Zamazenta sets and some Spectrier sets since Toxapex cant damage mons like Naganadel so it just sits there clicking haze and recover most of the time+ electric spam is a thing now so Toxapex usage has gone down exponentially you can also trap it with Tapu fini or Heatran too so even though it can beat Urshifu Single Srike its not worth 1 team slot on most teams other than stall Buzzwole is a much better physical wall than this

B- to A-/A i really love this mon it is so good and can fit on almost any team and make it look better its the only real Naganadel wall and a great special wall teams without this typically need to use Heatran to check Naganadel the reason im not putting it higher is that teams typically tech against Chansey in some way or another be it sub Kyurem-W/Kyurem, sub Giratina, Mozonite Volcarona or something else

B+ to A-/A Same thoughts as ilikeeatingcrayons it beats almost all of naganadels checks by trapping them

B+ to A- great on hazard stack scarf and band are both very good the pressure it puts on many teams is big and can break through after some chip

C- to C Usage is rising its a niche Naganadel+Dug core check should be C atleast it aso has calm mind and can actually threaten naganadel

UR to C/C+ Mozonite really innovated this mon and its pretty good makes chansey become setup fodder

UR to C- niche on stall use either assualt vest or shuca Naganadel can beat it with good chip but its still fine Lyra used this in semis and almost won

 

[Kanha Greninja]

Please note these VR changes i would like to see are subject to my opinion your opinion may be different feel free to talk to me about these change suggestions
UR to Bottom i agree with ilikeeatingcrayons that SS Ubers UU feels like it appreciates trick room setters that last longer and are more consistent in lengthier games. But if you have a hyper offensive team it a good niche trick room setter on TR when used correctly on those teams can often be a huge help Addison used it in week 1 of UUbersPL not only did it get trick room up but got a used healing wish on low hp which led to a free kill it isnt as good as the C- mons but Bottom should definitely be within reach since its better than all the UR mons by a pretty good amount no UR mon is as good as this

C- to C Great mon on more bulky teams 2 amazing ability's status moves, knock off, wish, moonblast and aromatheraphy are one of the few things that make it so good the support it brings to your team is big i like to think of it like a defensive Tapu Fini but in the way that it focuses on support rather than trapping. It can check many fighting type mons like Urshifu Single Strike without Poison Jab or Iron Head, Zamazenta without Iron Head and Buzzwole Lyra used this mon 2 times in UUbersPL where one of the teams with this mon became a sample showing that its a good mon i also feel like the other mons other than Lugia isnt as good as this therefore both Clefable and Lugia should be promoted

UR to C- i think the power it gets on the only playstyle it works on (trick room) just makes it imo C- worthy i wouldnt say its mandatory on TR since Melmetal and Necrozma-Dawn-Wings still exist as great TR breakers but its still great it grabbed 4 kills when Addison used it in week 1 of UUbersPL it has an amazing item in Thick Club and a good ability for it in Rock Head paired with Flare Blitz, great secondary stab in Poltergeist and nice coverage in low kick make it a great breaker this makes it very good on TR

B- to C+/C this mon was used week 1 of UUbersPL by Lyra and Poosh_i and it only performed decently in one of them because it was able to come in on attacks and chip the target back it wasnt used since. Hippowdon would have performed better in both of those matches since it has recovery and toxic along with eq and still has rocks

C to C+ This mon is a great check to a multitude of physical attacker in the tier including Zamazenta, Urshifu Single Strike, Reshiram, Physical Giratina-O and many other threats cant break through this mons isnt limited only to Sand structures but also to bulkier teams that use Hippowdons rocks to gain momentum through out the game the fact that it can also spread toxic make it an important part to many bulkier structures you can also play with evs like me and Lyra did to ensure that it doesnt get OHKOed to Naganadel and revenge for big damage or a kill

 

[Lyra]

Alright this is my PERSONAL viability ranking. Feel free to ask why certain mons are where they are! I'll get to reasonings now. Also I've ranked them according to how splashable they are on a team, how well they perform across matchups and what they do for a team.

S: You can use them pretty much however you want and they WILL perform.

-> This is by far the single best mon in the tier and NOTHING comes close. Not even Solgaleo. Its INCREDIBLY versatile. From bulky Wisp sets to AoA to Substitute to Defog to Dragon Tail shuffler. It does it ALL. It checks big threats in the meta such as Zamazenta, Offensive Solgaleo, and Spectrier (with Shadow Sneak). Its very splashable due to its variety in its moves, EV spreads etc etc. It can legit pick what it wants to beat, bulky Heatran is shattered by Earthquake, Chansey becomes fodder with Substitute, Urshifu is blown to smitherins with Draco Meteor, Solgaleo gets crushed by strong Ghost STAB (WispHex, Shadow Ball, Poltergeist). It's an excellent fit on all sorts of teams -- from Balance teams using it as a Defogger to Bulky Offense teams using it as a sponge with a WispHex set to Offense teams enjoying AoA ripping apart teams to Hyper Offense enjoying Substitute + Set up move. REALLY REALLY GOOD MON.
-> Anyone that has seen me talk in the server knows I'm NOT a Solgaleo fan. But I won't deny its an incredibly good mon. I was wondering if I should make it S or S- since it's not really on Tina-O's level but it's also better than everything else in A+. But I decided against S- cuz its an unholy rank. Anyways this thing is really good. Its the premier Steel-type in the tier and its for a reason. Its very bulky, decently fast for a bulky mon and has TONS of utility. I don't use it as much but it's really good. It does things a bulky Steel does.

A+: Require a bit more support than the ones in S but u can't go wrong with these mons either.

-> The single most offensively threatening mon in the tier. Its STAB combination is TERRIFIC. Its the only reason fairies or Buzzwole are pretty such mandatory on Balance or Bulky Offense. Choice Band literally just clicks but is prone to get revenge killed by Naganadel, Zamazenta or just vs offense in general. Shifu flips the script on offense with a Choice Scarf set, blitzing past supposed revenge killers like Naganadel. It also helps massively vs boosted Kyurem-B. The rise Black Glasses has allowed it to spam Wicked Blows while again ruining revenge killing attempts from Naganadel and Scarf Genesect.
-> This mon is a near mandatory pick on offense teams. Boasting amazing offensive stats and a blazing speed stat, only really challenged by Zamazenta. Its item choice I feel hasn't been messed with much as people just use LOor Eject Pack + Dugtrio. I've found Payapa Berry interesting to turn the tables on Zamazenta. While I've also used Lum Berry a bit. Nasty Plot sweep or break. Really good mon.
-> Another offense staple, probably the most splashable Urshifu due to dark resist + Dauntless shield. People are obsessed with CB but i just Boots a lot of the time because having a solid Shifu check is really really nice. Its even faster than Naganadel and absolutely one of the best mons in the tier. Its ability to revenge two of the most threatening mons in the tier make it THE most annoying mon for offense to face. A good offense MUST have something for Zamazenta or it'll mess you up.

A: Big drop off in splashability and overall usage. Mostly the supporting cast of the top mons

-> The queen of all bulky teams. U cannot go wrong with her. She does Chansey things. It being abusable by the mons its supposed to answer hurts it a but she's absolutely great. Doesn't really fit on offense as well as I'd like it to so it's in A and not A+
-> This might just be the best specially offensive in the tier. People are too obsessed with OTR sets but Calm Mind + Substitute dunks on Chansey. Support sets are cool and gives offensive teams a very cool Stealth Rocker. Not a lot to say about it ngl
-> NOW HEAR ME OUT BEFORE YOU CALL HER TRASH. I think I'm a bit biased here but she's GOOD. Its not outclassed by Solgaleo at all. Specs is absolutely goated and NOTHING wants to switch into it, not even Chansey for she gets tricked. Solgaleo is the next best thing I guess but it just gets Volted on for threatening teammates such as Urshifu-S and offensive Moltres. I don't particularly enjoy Calm Mind but it's very cool vs any team that doesn't use Solgaleo. I think CM + Encore is also incredibly annoying for Chansey and Solgaleo to face. Even just bulky sets are really cool on offense due to Volt Switch + Heal Bell + not being passive.
-> Trick Room Melm is really annoying bit if I had to put it on Trick Room this mon wouldn't be breaking the B rank. ProTox Melm is genuinely so infuriating to fight. It can take big hits and it will just...heal back with lefties + Protect somehow like????? It also threatens the day lights out of everything with DIB + Eq + Toxic. ProTox is cool, use it more people.
-> This is pretty much exclusive on Electric Terrain...so why is it here??? Well it's fucking obnoxious on E-Terrain and its lights out a lot of the times if you don't have ground.
-> This mon is god and NO ONE can tell me otherwise. Melmetal check??? Urshifu check??? Zamazenta check???? Garchomp check???? Excadrill check???? Forces toxic on the best mon in the tier??? Sign me up.

Anyways I'm not explaining the rest :p. Ask me why what is where and I'll answer by lumping them together later. Baiiii <3

 

[Lyra]

With the new and updated VR, let's talk about what has changed!

Rises:

--> A to A+ --> Hard agree. Its the tier's premier Steel-type Pokemon, with a unique combination of traits (speed most importantly). It was ranked too low initially, love to see it getting more respect. Specially Defensive Thunder Wave sets are definitely my favourite right now, sometimes even slotting in Psychic to outright KO Naganadel. I toyed around with Choice Scarf too but it felt meh.
--> A- to A+ --> Also agree. One of the tier's "Big 5" imo. It has a ton of checks but it can get around them through its surprising movepool. Close Combat is frankly the only mandatory move. Then it can pick and choose what it wants, Psychic Fangs allows it to KO Naganadel after Stealth Rocks, Crunch hits Slowbro, NDW, and Tina-O hard, Wild Charge crushes Moltres and Tapu Fini bla bla bla. Outside of that, it can run Howl to muscle through some checks, Safeguard allows it to ruin Moltres etc etc. It can run Choice Band, Boots, Leftovers and even Scarf on fat teams.
--> B+ to A+ --> Also agree. It only has 3 answers, and all of them can be abused with a simple U-turn. Band, Scarf and Black Glasses are all good.
--> A- to A --> Agree. This mon is so annoying GAAAAHHH. ProTox is its best set (CB is Trick Room only) and it eats hits for days. It's also an excellent Zamazenta partner cuz u force Toxic on same checks and then Zamazenta's attacks force them into recovering, allowing something to switch in safely.
--> B- to A --> Hard Agree. WHAT WERE YOU ALL DOING PUTTING HER IN B-. She's really good, she does Chansey things.
--> B+ to A- --> Don't agree. Its an amazing partner to Naganadel and Genesect but...I don't like my Ground-type getting 2HKO'd by Life Orb Rapid Spin from Regieleki. Its still an unhealthy presence in the tier tho.
--> B+ to A- --> Meh. Don't agree with A- but I can see why it is here so. Nice check to Shifu on offense, loves Chansey's wishes, solid offensive Defogger with Nature's Madness + Taunt or just Taunt. Calm Mind sets can take over games if u were too careless.
--> B- to B+ --> Agree. Good mon, does Slowbro things, start running Ice Beam on it guys.
--> C+ to B --> Agree. Its only C+ in my personal VR but I have been experimenting with Sand a lot past few days and Drill has surprised me.
--> C to B --> Agree, great punish to Double Iron Bash and Close Combat spam, its difficult to switch into off Moltres without Chansey.
--> C- to B- --> Should be higher. Frankly, best answer to Urshifu-S. Immunity to hazards + its wide utility and solid bulk gives it more of a niche than shit like Tapu Koko roflcakes. Its also an excellent addition to Sand teams!!!
--> C- to B- --> Calm Mind sets are good. Could be higher but meh.
--> C- to B- --> THE CHOMPER. Really threatening offensively with SD + Scale Shot but is solid with it's Tank set.
--> C to C+ --> Honesty, just Focus Punch the Chansey on switch-in and then u can quite literally win. Should be B-. Its a bit tough to build with so understandable.
--> C to C+ --> Should be higher, best Eleki answer. Its goated guys
--> Unranked to C+ --> Agree. I got farmed by it so.
--> C- to C --> Meh.
--> Unranked to C --> Agree, Trick Room is a bit fishy now that people know but it's the best Setter.
--> D to C --> Stall staple. Okay Calm Mind sweeper at best.
--> D to C- --> HO good = Aero best HO lead = Aero good.
--> D to C- --> Good addition to terrain teams. Kinda broken NGL.
--> Unranked to C- --> Trick Room bot.
--> Unranked to C- --> Its...fine here.
--> Unranked to C- --> People too busy using Specs and Scarf but Encore + Knock Off/ Taunt FARMS.
--> Unranked to C- --> Good lead.

Drops:

--> S to A+ --> Not as threatening, doesn't get enough opportunities to set up I feel. Really liked just using Specs and hitting and running rather than running Nasty Plot and getting stopped by Zama, Heatran, Thunder Wave, someone just predicting half well.
--> A+ to A --> OTR sets farmed offense...until Urshifu happened. SpDef sets are cool but I don't like my ghost taking a more defensive approach. SubTox and Sub + CM are interesting.
--> A to A- --> Drop this lower, its kinda bad. Band sets have felt okay at best, Scarf just becomes a u-turn bot and is susceptible to hazards + Rocky Helmet. Shift Gear felt fine, Rock Polish + 3 Special Attacks (Flame, IBeam and Dark Pulse) is definitely my favourite.
--> A to B+ --> B+ is too harsh, I'm biased but CM + Encore cooks Solgaleo and Chansey. Specs is annoying to switch into and OTR isn't scared of priority like NDW is.
--> A- to B+ --> Didn't really want it to drop. Great Ursifu answer, checks Melmetal, Zamazenta and Garchomp as well. Really cool mon peeps.
--> A- to C+ --> Oh the fall. This thing SUCKS! Its super passive and it forced to click Haze and Recover A LOT!! Regenerator is cool but being forced into Shed Shell instead of Helmet/ Boots/ Black Sludge is sad. Its cute on stall teams tho.
--> B+ to B --> Idk why this dropped. Really threatening mon to any tier without a Chansey. And even Chansey can get stalled out by SubRoost. Specs is demonic, and Life Orb 3a 2hkoes pretty much the entire tier bar Chansey. Goated moooon.

--> B+ to B --> Not sure why she dropped either. Its near mandatory on stall and is a very good glue mon on balance and bulky offense alike. Its only problem is that it needs more EVs than it has but it's not that big. Taunt + Toxic dismantles teams with ease. Foul Play ruins ghosts, Brave Bird crushes Zamazenta, Urshifu and Buzzwole, U-turn allows it to bring in big threats.

--> B+ to C+ --> Good Trick Room mon, should not have been that high in the first place.
--> B+ to B ---> Its an eterrain bot, half check to shifu and zama, and that's it. Maybe it can be a cool Calm Mind sweeper? Idk it loses to other sweepers without Taunt and it really wants Roost. Maybe offensive CM for breaking rather than sweeping can be its thing.
--> B to B- --> All I'll say this thing is really fucking broken. Should be higher.
--> B- to C+ --> Anyteam with a physically defensive Solgaleo rues fighting this, and surprise...that's a lot of them!! Should remain B-.
--> B- to C+ --> Inferior to Hippo on Sand but I've been trying CB on webs. Sand teams without heatran should generally use ttar cuz Naganadel can be a pain to deal with.
--> C+ to C --> Its very good on Offense. Use it more guys.
--> C to C- --> No one gaf about it bfr.

The rest idgaf about.