Genesect

What is your favorite Genesect set?


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Overview
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  • Genesect has many great Pokemon qualities, including great defensive typing, respectable offensive typing, an amazing movepool, and awesome base stats, including dual 120 offensive stats, and a nice 99 speed
  • Download further boosts Genesect's offensive stats, but is unreliable, sometimes boosting the offensive stat you don't need.
  • Genesect is one of, if not the best Choice Scarf abusers in the entire game, with a boosted base speed of 99 letting the cyborg outrun nearly all of the unboosted metagame , including fast and powerful threats like Mewtwo, Mega Mewtwo Y and Darkrai. Genesect even outruns other common Choice Scarf Pokemon like Kyogre and Zekrom. STAB U-turn makes it incredibly easy to bring in a check or counter to whatever Pokemon Genesect is up against.
  • With the Steel nerf and introduction of the Fairy typing, Genesect is in an interesting situation. While it could once reliably switch into a Dark or Ghost type attack, now these attacks will do much more damage, making Genesect's defenses seem a lot more frail. However, the introduction of Fairy type Pokemon gives Genesect more of a reason than ever to run Iron Head, being able to get a clean OHKO on Xerneas after a +1 attack boost.
  • Genesect also has access to Extreme Speed, and with a +1 attack boost, Physical Scarf Genesect does a minimum of 30% damage to standard Power Herb Xerneas after a Geomancy Boost. This lets the cyborg revenge-kill a boosted Xerneas that is at low health.
  • Genesect's greatest power is not it's raw strength, but rather it's ability to easily keep momentum on the side of it's trainer. STAB U-turn allows Genesect to lead, sweep, scout, and more. Every time you see a Genesect use U-turn, prepare yourself, because much like the terminator, it will be back.
Physical Choice Scarf
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Physically inclined Choice Scarf
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Extreme Speed / Explosion
move 4: Ice Beam / Blaze Kick
ability: Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 8 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty

Moves
========
  • U-turn is the flagship move. It allows the cyborg to hit pure Psychic, Grass, and Dark types hard, do heavy damage to anything which doesn't resist it, and most importantly, shift momentum in your favor.
  • Iron Head allows Genesect to smash Xerneas, Sylveon, and miscellaneous Fairy Pokemon, reliably do damage, and clean late game.
  • Extremespeed is the only priority Genesect gets, and works in tandem with Download to pick off weakened foes. A +1 attack-boosted Extreme Speed is very useful in picking off low health Pokemon. Notably, Extreme Speed does at least 30% to 152 HP Xerneas, letting Genesect revenge kill the fairy. Explosion can be used on Genesect instead, to metaphorically nuke one Pokemon into oblivion. With a +1 Attack Download boost, Genesect can OHKO most Ho-Oh sets, and do 50% to bulky Arceus forms, making Explosion a tool for revenge-killing.
  • The last move is all about what you want to hit; Ice Beam lets Genesect win against Landorus-T, Rayquaza, and Shaymin-S, but Blaze Kick lets Genesect overcome Steel types such as Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Forretress.

Set Details
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  • Max Attack is used to hit the hardest physically.
  • Max Speed, in conjunction with a Choice Scarf lets Genesect outspeed nearly all of the metagame.
  • The last 4 EVs can be dumped into Special Attack, to increase Genesect's Special attacking prowess, or into a defensive stat to increase durability.
  • Any Genesect which runs either Blaze Kick, Extreme Speed, or both must be both Shiny and run a Hasty nature.
  • Should you not run either of the above two options, you can opt for a Jolly or Naive Nature.

Usage Tips
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  • Use U-Turn to let Genesect zip in and out of the battle. It will do strong damage to Pokemon weak to Bug, like Mega Mewtwo-Y, Darkrai, and Deoxys-A. It also does strong damage to Pokemon with a weaker physical defensive stat, such as Specs/Scarf Kyogre.
  • Genesect should be sent in as a revenge killer, lead, or sent in when you predict it's typing will let it survive a hit.
  • Ultimately, use Genesect as a momentum-giving tool. U-turn will help with this. Play Genesect well, and you have one hell of a cyborg Scout, Lead, and-all around killing machine.

Team Options
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  • Genesect likes working with Pokemon that can readily abuse rapid switching and momentum gain. Ho-Oh is one of the best examples, being able to use Regenerator to constantly restore its health as Genesect zips in and out with U-turn.
  • Palkia is another great example. Palkia's typing and stats lets it find many switch-in opportunities. From there, Palkia can start dealing heavy damage with it's STAB options and great coverage.
  • Zekrom is a very neat Pokemon in that it can use Bolt Strike to overcome many Pokemon Genesect can not, such as Bulky Kyogre and Ho-Oh. It can also use Volt Switch to create an atmosphere of constant switching. Zekrom is great if interested in using a Volt-Turn team.
  • Sticky Web support is very nice, provided through either Smeargle, Gavantula, or Shuckle. A +2 Speed-boosted Power Herb Xerneas that gets slowed down is able to be revenged killed by a STAB Iron Head.

Choice Band
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Fast Choice Band

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Blaze Kick/Extreme Speed
move 4: Explosion / Ice Beam
ability: Download
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4HP
nature: Hasty

Moves
========
  • The premier move is U-Turn, which allows the cyborg to hit pure Psychic, Grass, and Dark types extremely hard, do heavy damage to anything which doesn't resist it, and most importantly, shift momentum in your favor.
  • Iron Head allows Genesect to destroy Xerneas, Sylveon, and miscellaneous Fairy type Pokemon. If Genesect is staying in, this will be the move which is used most.
  • Blaze Kick lets Genesect deal significant damage to Steel type Pokemon such as Scizor which otherwise will shut the cyborg down.
  • Extremespeed now has respectable power which can be boosted even further should Download give a +1 Attack boost.
  • Explosion allows Genesect to absolutely nuke an enemy Pokemon, but Ice Beam is an alternative. Ice Beam, despite being a special move, provides great coverage, while letting Genesect abuse +1 SpA Download boosts.

Set Details
========
  • Max attack is used so that banded Genesect can hit its very hardest.
  • Max speed is still necessary. 99 speed is still above most Ubers, and Genesect needs to be in that speed tier.
  • A Hasty nature and Shiny coloring is needed to use Extremespeed and Blaze Kick.
  • Final 4 EVs should be put into HP, or SpA if you're running a special move.

Usage Tips
========
  • Genesect gets more Attack Power from a Band and can get potential download boosts.
  • Unfortunately, it still has difficulty getting outright OKHOs on things that are not weak to its attacks.
  • The set is still pretty fast by Ubers standards, but now anything above 99 poses an immediate threat, like flamethrower Mewtwo, something which is outrun with a scarf.

Team Options
========
  • Genesect likes working with Pokemon that can readily abuse rapid switching and momentum gain. Ho-Oh is one of the best examples, being able to use Regenerator to constantly restore its health as Genesect zips in and out with U-turn.
  • Palkia is another great example. Palkia's typing and stats lets it find many switch-in opportunities. From there, Palkia can start dealing heavy damage with it's STAB options and great coverage.
  • Zekrom is a very neat Pokemon in that it can use Bolt Strike to overcome many Pokemon Genesect can not, such as Kyogre and Ho-Oh. It can also use Volt Switch to create an atmosphere of constant switching. Zekrom is great if interested in using a Volt-Turn team.
  • Sticky Web support through Smeargle, Gavantula, or Shuckle gives Choice Band Genesect a speed edge, and allows it to outrun and deal damage to many of the same Pokemon that choice scarf Genesect can outrun.

Other Options
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  • Interestingly, Genesect can run a Shift Gear set. This is quite different from other sets because it focuses on staying around to sweep rather than zipping in and out of the battle. Genesect's coverage is lacking though, and it's frail defenses make it hard to stay in. A Hasty nature is mandatory and the evs would be 252 Attack, 252 HP, and 4 Def/SpD.
  • A Special Choice Scarf set can also be considered, being able to use the moves of U-Turn, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Genesect's many other special options to hit hard specially. U-turn must remain in order to keep momentum on your side. Here, 252 SpA, 252 Spe, 4 HP/ 4 Atk are the preferred evs to maximize KO potential.Remember that due to this set being specially oriented, it has different things that it can get KOs on. Unfortunately, with the widespread nerf of special moves, and the difficulty of outright bringing down Pokemon with this set, Special Scarf Genesect is certainly in decline. New metagame threats like Mega Blaziken and Mega Gengar make it even harder for Special Genesect to stay current.
  • Choice Specs is usable, however SpA download boosts are unreliable, and to make matters worse, Genesect not only can't get many outright OHKOs, but is outsped by anything over 99.
  • Gensect has a great movepool, but there's not that many other viable moves than what's been listed above.

Checks & Counters
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**Ho-Oh**: Ho-Oh is generally a good check to Genesect because it resists Genesect's STAB options, takes minimal damage from special attacks, can OHKO with Sacred Fire, and can heal off damage with Roost and Regenerator. However, it must be noted that Ho-Oh hates taking a boosted Explosion.

**Reshiram**: Reshiram is in a similar position to Ho-Oh in that it resists Genesects STAB moves, takes little damage from its special attacks, and can obliterate Genesect with STAB Fire moves. Explosion is the only real way for Genesect to do significant damage and it requires self-sacrifice.

**Blaziken**: Blaziken and Mega Blaziken have a 4x resist to Genesect's STAB options, and can use Speed Boost to outspeed Genesect. Blaziken can then proceed to OHKO with Flare Blitz. Blaziken also dislikes a boosted Explosion, but has a resistance to it.

**Bulky Steel Type Pokemon**: No matter Genesect's set, bulky Steel type Pokemon give Genesect trouble. Arceus-Steel tanks every hit save for Sun-Boosted Blaze Kick and Flamethrower, and can status Genesect, restore health with Recover, and even set-up. Dialga is in a similar boat; tanking every hit Genesect can dish-out, and firing back powerful special attacks in return. Jirachi can paralyze Genesect and chip away at the cyborg's health. Aegislash can use Kings Shield and it's Ghost-Stab to win, but hates Genesect's fire Moves. Scizor can revenge-kill Genesect with Bullet Punch, but is melted by Fire moves.

**Burns and Paralysis**: Physical Genesect loathes Burns, as they neuter U-Turn, Iron Head, and Genesect's other physical options. Paralysis shuts Genesect down; Choice Scarf Genesect loses out on its speed tier, and non scarf Genesect becomes easy prey for any powerful attacker.

**Bulky Attackers**: Any powerful attacker which can tank a hit and fire off a powerful unresisted Stab move can survive and get a clean OHKO on Genesect. Zekrom's Bolt Strike and Kyogre's Surf are prime examples of moves that Genesect can never survive, and team support is necessary to get around these Bulkier Pokemon.
 
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Physically inclined Choice Scarf
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Blaze Kick/Flamethrower
move 4: Explosion/Extreme Speed/ Ice Beam/Thunderbolt
ability: Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk, 252 Spe
nature: Timid

1. Timid is +Speed -Attack; I think you're thinking of Jolly.
2. Blaze Kick , and Extremespeed can only be used by the event Redesect, which ALWAYS have a Hasty nature.
3. You still have 4 remaining EVs.
 
Explosion should probably have a first slash on Physical Scarf Genesect. Moves like Flamethrower, Extremespeed, and Blaze Kick don't really hit as much as they used to (Espeed was incredibly niche in the first place, it shouldn't even be main-set material IMO), while Explosion is quite nice for things like Arceus-Electric and Ho-oh, both of which became far more popular with the generation shift.

Maybe do:

- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Explosion / Flamethrower / Thunder (Thunderbolt is incredibly weak, and the Paralysis chance and higher BP of Thunder make it a better choice for rain in spite of the permaweather nerf. Obviously Flamethrower or Explosion is best for sun)
- Ice Beam
 
Friendly reminder that the analysis should be in bullet point format for the skeleton, just wanted to remind you before you get too far along.
 
Thanks guys! The Shift Gear thing was a result of copy/pasting the format and information. I'll edit it, and also change the formatting to bullet point. Hey when it comes to set information (EVs and such), if the same principles apply, can we use some of the same sentences? Choice Genesect's EVs tend to be the same, just a reversal of Atk and SpA.

Thanks again :D
 
How my Genesct thinks:
G.E.N.E. VI online, Choice Scarf Attachment installed
Now running download.exe, Special weakness detected, boosting stats
x4 Ice identified
Activating Ice Beam
Target Status - Fainted
New target Arcanine appears, threat imminent, Switching to Flareon to take Flare Blitz

Later...

G.E.N.E. VI returning, Stealth Rock damage taken
Now running download.exe, Physical weakness detected, boosting stats
Health points failing
Activate Selfdestruct V2
G.E.N.E. VI Shutting down
........
99 really isn't a reliable speed in Uber and he gets massive attack stats so you might aswell use it. I guess physical would be good if you notice you're coming in on U Turn targets a lot, just add some pivots like someone with Flash Fire (liiiiiike Flareon?). Also boosted Explosion is going to hurt A LOT. Just work out 2 coverage moves and defiantly have 1 be special.
 
And for that matter flareon is my thing and it hardly has a niche as it is.
Seriously this is no place for flareons.

I would leave riley and the QCs at it if I were you Petrico94

I don't have anything to contribute to the analysis, I've never used genesect.
 
Not QC but just thought I should say a few things:

This isn't in bullet points

Overview

- Remove the BW OU stuff
- Change Fairies to Xerneas/Sylveon/stuff
- Mention that its physical movepool is nowhere near as good as its special movepool. Blaze Kick is nice, but so is Icicle Crash/Ice Punch, which it would kill for
- You might want to make a quick note about the unreliability of Download, though this may be better in usage tips

Physical Scarf

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Blaze Kick
move 4: Explosion/Flamethrower
ability: Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
nature: Hasty

TBolt without STAB is pointless, and Ice Beam is more important then a 3rd slash. I left in Flamethrower for a reliable way to hit some Steel types, but Blaze Kick hits Steel Arceus harder. Again, change the word Fairies to the relevant ones, and mention Iron Head is a reliable STAB that lets you stay in, not JUST for Xern/Sylveon. 252/252 soreads don't need an explanation. Remove the must be shiny part, and put the last 4 in SpA because 4 HP gives an even HP number. Fixed formatting of EVs.

Special Scarf

See Physical Scarf, most formatting and info there is the same, except the set should be:

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder/Iron Head
move 4: Flamethrower/Iron Head
ability: Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk /252 Spe
nature: Hasty

DO NOT USE TIMID WITH U-TURN. Formatting fixed.

Tbolt is weak, Thunder should be the first slash, if Tbolt stays at all. (is this even worth keeping?)

Choice Band

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Blaze Kick/Ice Beam
move 4: Extreme Speed/Explosion
ability: Download
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty

Shift Gear

move 1: Shift Gear
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Blaze Kick
move 4: Ice Beam/Extreme Speed/Explosion
ability: Download
item: Life Orb/ Leftovers
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty

Only note the forced Hasty here, and any other sets with Blaze Kick.

OO should talk about some more gimmicky things, but the sets already describe his notable movepool. CC needs more, there are a lot of checks to this, but its (kind of, I don't know if/what QC will agree with this post or the sets/changes I mentioned) versatily makes some unreliable

Sorry if this was TL;DR.
 
Not QC but just thought I should say a few things:

This isn't in bullet points

Overview

- Remove the BW OU stuff
- Change Fairies to Xerneas/Sylveon/stuff
- Mention that its physical movepool is nowhere near as good as its special movepool. Blaze Kick is nice, but so is Icicle Crash/Ice Punch, which it would kill for
- You might want to make a quick note about the unreliability of Download, though this may be better in usage tips

Physical Scarf

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Blaze Kick
move 4: Explosion/Flamethrower
ability: Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
nature: Hasty

TBolt without STAB is pointless, and Ice Beam is more important then a 3rd slash. I left in Flamethrower for a reliable way to hit some Steel types, but Blaze Kick hits Steel Arceus harder. Again, change the word Fairies to the relevant ones, and mention Iron Head is a reliable STAB that lets you stay in, not JUST for Xern/Sylveon. 252/252 soreads don't need an explanation. Remove the must be shiny part, and put the last 4 in SpA because 4 HP gives an even HP number. Fixed formatting of EVs.

Special Scarf

See Physical Scarf, most formatting and info there is the same, except the set should be:

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder/Iron Head
move 4: Flamethrower/Iron Head
ability: Download
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk /252 Spe
nature: Hasty

DO NOT USE TIMID WITH U-TURN. Formatting fixed.

Tbolt is weak, Thunder should be the first slash, if Tbolt stays at all. (is this even worth keeping?)

Choice Band

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Blaze Kick/Ice Beam
move 4: Extreme Speed/Explosion
ability: Download
item: Choice Band
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty

Shift Gear

move 1: Shift Gear
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Blaze Kick
move 4: Ice Beam/Extreme Speed/Explosion
ability: Download
item: Life Orb/ Leftovers
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spe
nature: Hasty

Only note the forced Hasty here, and any other sets with Blaze Kick.

OO should talk about some more gimmicky things, but the sets already describe his notable movepool. CC needs more, there are a lot of checks to this, but its (kind of, I don't know if/what QC will agree with this post or the sets/changes I mentioned) versatily makes some unreliable

Sorry if this was TL;DR.

Thanks you so much for your time and effort! I'll implement some of this great stuff when I have time :D
 
Edited quite a bit, including overview and checks and counters. Still need to do the Team Options, but now there's a proper format, and sets which better reflect viability :)
 
Physical Scarf - I would slash Ice Beam before Blaze Kick and drop FT/ESpeed to OO. One of Gene's good niches is that it can reliably revenge kill Rayquaza, which it can't do without Ice Beam. Blaze Kick is more of a luxury move imo, it's probably better to U-turn to something like Groudon or Ho-Oh or Kyogre (Scarf Gene + Specs Kyogre is still a good combo) against Steel switch-ins since Gene isn't too potent on its own. Ice Beam also kills Lando-T/Gliscor who are targets you don't really want to miss if using a mostly physical set. Ferro/lead Forry usages are considerably lower so Flamethrower is not as useful as it used to be, and ESpeed doesn't hit that hard at all on Scarf so I think just a moves mention for it will suffice. Also make Hasty the only nature and mention Naive if not using Blaze Kick.

Special Scarf - Make the move slashes this:

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Bug Buzz
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Flamethrower / Iron Head / Thunder

Again I feel like Ice Beam is mandatory since it hits too many important things (Rayquaza, Grounds, Zekrom) to not use it. IMO Bug Buzz is also mandatory since one of the draws to using special Gene over physical Gene is cleaning power + the ability to RK M2X more effectively, which you can't do without your strongest STAB move. From there you can use Flamethrower to take out Steels or Iron Head to take out Fairies, both of which resist Bug. Thunder can also be used since it hits much harder on special scarf and is your best weapon vs Ho-Oh/Blaziken. You can moves mention Flash Cannon for a special Steel STAB, but Iron Head is generally better since you get Attack boosts vs Sylveon/SDef Xerneas.

Choice Band -

move 1: U-turn
move 2: Iron Head
move 3: Extreme Speed / Blaze Kick
move 4: Explosion / Extreme Speed / Ice Beam

Minor changes, but Ice Beam isn't as important on this set since you have a Band to hurt Grounds more and Giratina is a lot less common. ESpeed before Blaze Kick imo since having strong priority is really useful in this metagame and you can still adequately pressure steels by getting off a strong U-turn then going to Groudon/Lando-T/Ho-Oh/Kyogre or what have you. Explosion is still first in last slot since CB Download boosted Explosion is a v. nice wallbreaking tool, it does like 80% to Lando-T/Groudon which is very cool and can help something like Scarf Zekrom clean up lategame.

Shift Gear - LO should be the only item, Gene needs the extra power.

OO - Put in Tbolt (really weak but doesn't miss vs Ho-Oh), and Dark Pulse (most damaging move vs Ghosts in general and gets neutral hits on Steel-types). You can also mention Fell Stinger on the Shift Gear set to kill Bug weak mons for an additional +2 Attack, but it limits your coverage and the move itself is weak.

Checks and Counters - add Bulky Steels as a category and mention Dialga, Scizor, Aegislash, Steel Arceus, and Skarmory. You can also make a category called Fire-types and lump Ho-Oh, Blaziken, Heatran, Reshiram, and Fire Arceus into there.
 
I completely agree with Ice Beam being viable. My only problem is that I tend to run Genesect on teams with Groudon, and because of the sun boost, Blaze Kick hits harder more consistently. Ice Beam tends to outright 1HKO a only a few Pokemon: Skymin, Gliscor around 75% health, Groudon around 80% health, Garchomp at any time, Zekrom with no HP investment, and Rayquaza. Rayquaza in particular is really annoying for Genesect because Ice Beam's power nerf lets Genesect only get a guaranteed OHKO after a +1 SpA boost. Ice Beam is good, but on Physical Genesect, it only should be used for cleaning late game or picking off weakened enemies. Ice Beam needs to kill these Pokemon, because without a kill, many of them with either a) tank a hit and OHKO (Zekrom, Fire Punch Groudon, sometimes Rayquaza), or b) take a huge chunk of health (normally 60% or more other than Gliscor) from Genesect.

Ice Beam was really, really good last gen, but from experience, I firmly believe it should not have a first slash because, while it hits many things hard, too often will Physical Genesect fail to get a OHKO, even with a +1 SpA boost. Without a +1 boost, the damage that can be dealt is even lower.

I'll add some calcs
  • 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 332-392 (94.5 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
  • +1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 496-588 (141.3 - 167.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Physical Gene needs that +1 Special boost, otherwise, Rayquaza has a change to live a hit and OHKO with V-Create
  • +1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 226-268 (66.2 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Genesect always gets the special boost here, but can't OHKO Zekrom without prior damage. Zekrom will live a hit and OHKO with Bolt Strike
  • +1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon: 248-294 (72.7 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Similar situation to Zekrom. Physical Genesect always gets the Special boost, but never gets a clean OHKO. Groudon then either OHKOs with Fire Punch (not common) or deals a huge amount of damage to Genesect with Earthquake (common).
  • 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Shaymin-S: 384-456 (112.6 - 133.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 384-456 (108.4 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 520-616 (145.6 - 172.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
  • +1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 476-560 (133.3 - 156.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Bar some strange defensive sets, Physical Genesect normally gets OHKOs on these Pokemon with Ice Beam.

As I've said in the checks and counters section, Genesect hates Pokemon which can tank hits and return a massive amount of damage in return. Download is consistent against Zekrom and Groudon, but physical Gene will never OHKO them with Ice Beam. Meanwhile, Rayquaza can only be reliably OHKO'd after a +1 Special boost.

I'll end the way I started; Physical Genesect with Ice Beam is really good, however Ice Beam should primarily be used for picking off weakened Pokmeon. There's the issue that Ice Beam can also lose you momentum after your opponent switches into say, Kyogre, but that's a separate problem.
 
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4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Rayquaza: 332-392 (94.5 - 111.6%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

You literally only need SR or one round of LO recoil or 6% prior damage to assuredly KO Rayquaza which is not hard to guarantee whereas:

+1 252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Rayquaza: 204-240 (58.1 - 68.3%)

You only have a slim chance to KO after SR AND 1 round of LO recoil. Being able to RK Rayquaza regardless of its set is one of the big perks of using Scarf Genesect (mainly because Scarf 90's underspeed DD and Xern/Yveltal do not resist ESpeed) which you cannot do reliably without Ice Beam.

Rayquaza also sometimes runs Naive on DD/Mix sets, so that factored in means you are very rarely not killing Rayquaza with Ice Beam.

Also:

4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 384-456 (108.4 - 128.8%) (not including download, also where did you get 75% Gliscor dies to pretty much any special Ice move)
4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 364-432 (95.2 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO (not including download)
+1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Groudon: 248-292 (61.3 - 72.2%)
+1 4 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zekrom: 226-268 (66 - 78.3%)

Obviously Ice Beam got nerfed but honestly it's not that much - 95 BP Ice Beam can't OHKO Groudon or Zekrom for full life either. Ice Beam also hits Giratinas which although less common are still important targets.

rileydelete said:
My only problem is that I tend to run Genesect on teams with Groudon, and because of the sun boost, Blaze Kick hits harder more consistently.

This is irrelevant as obviously Groudon is not a required partner for Genesect. Landorus-T arguably works better with it since it can form a U-turn chain and checks Blaziken, Kyogre is also quite a solid partner, etc.

Blaze Kick is a luxury whereas Ice Beam is required to be able to RK things Gene is useful for RKing. It's not bad and I'm not saying it can't do cool things, but I feel that Ice Beam has more important general uses and therefore should be first slash.
 
I agree with you Fireburn, I'm writing my article based on experience. Blaze Kick is a luxury, and is only nice with consistent sun or against Pokemon weak to Fire moves. I'll update the OP, I just dislike Ice Beams inconsistency, potential loss of momentum, and tendency to miss OHKOs. :/
 
rileydelete If you could get the main set fixed up (chat with me on irc, I know exactly what i'm lookign for now) and have the overview, checks counters, and other options sections all out of wip (so bascially everything but the second set for now) by tomorrow that would be really helpful for me. We are going to have the new dex live soon and need at least a place holder skeleton. (oh and if you could jump ahead and format the checks and counters section like you see in the index that would be even better)

If you could check out sds's example in the index and folllow that formatting a bit stricter it would be good too.
 
The hype is overkill, we aren't gen 5 anymore. Genesect is still a solid Scarfer but it's a long shot from the best, it's just a very viable option.

Usage tips seems bare and filled up with fluff on how it fills x, y, z role. Talk about where you want bring it out, how you get it into play, and about how you can abuse U-Turn to get some chip damage on a mon as you go to a strong check/counter. (and hopefully catch your opponent switching out to not pointlessly lose HP on that mon)
Ho-Oh isn't a very good switch around mon cause it has to fight with SR to do so. In general, you need to mention teammates that put GeoXern in Espeed KO range (after SR) and with what sets cause that niche is often why you use Genesect. (not the only one though but it's a big draw over other scarfmons)

For CB:
I don't think Ice Beam is that important, Iron Head already does a fair chunk to Lando-T. I'd rather see Blaze Kick get a main slash. Either mimic the slashing on the scarf set or put Explosion with Blaze Kick and Ice Beam as just a moves mention. (tbh, this sounds best as CB needs Espeed to find a lot more free turns than it would otherwise. It shouldn't be slashed, imo)
Flamethrower Mewtwo isn't a thing. Again, usage tips is way too small. Team options can't just be a copy pasta of the scarf set, find new stuff that specific to CB. You can mention some repeat mons if you want but that shouldn't be all you have.

Check and Counters looks too simplified. There's a lot more you can do about a Genesect than what you listed there.
 
Last generation, Genesect benefited more from 8 / 248 instead of 4 / 252 due to stat boosts from Download rounding down odd numbers. As far as I'm aware, this hasn't changed, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm right, this should be mentioned in the analysis and the EVs changed.
 
rileydelete Not a QC member but I thought of some points:

Thunderbolt is rubbish at everything:

252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 140-166 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - with Special Scarf it sucks.

4 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 114-136 (33.3 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - ew no.

and Thunder kindof sucks too:

4 SpA Genesect Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 138-164 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

in fact, U-Turn would do more against Kyogre (this is of course assuming physically based Scarf)

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 178-210 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

against Kyogre, U-turn:

does more damage

you outspeed every single variant of Kyogre anyway

U-Turn is invaluable as it lets you stay a step ahead of Kyogre if it switches out, and if it stays in you don't get choice locked into a weak coverage move for something nasty to set up on (granted, they get to see what you bring out with U-Turn)

Ice Beam is indispensable as Fireburn mentioned ...or you could be a real man and use Blizzard (pls no)

I also have a point that i have no description for, it's more of a safeguard against Genesect. Darkrai and Mewtwo (no Mega Stone) are both checked by Scarf Genesect. Now, they both have equal Defense and Special Defense (90/90 base for both of them), assuming standard Timid 252 Speed 252 Special Attack spreads. a good thing to do with these two (and others which i'll get to) is to throw the 4 remaining EVs into a particular stat to break Genesect's boosts. For example, in order to prevent Genesect from getting an Attack boost, both Darkrai and Mewtwo should put the last 4 EVs into Defense (giving 217/216 for them). This means that you can switch out and have the switchin take less damage from U-Turn due to it being unboosted, or, if using Mewtwo with Recover, you can take a gamble if at high health and Recover as Genesect U-Turns:

252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 236-278 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

which leads to a net loss of 17-29% health, as opposed to:

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 356-420 (100.8 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

which leaves you with the choice of switch or die. as specific as this sounds, i still think it deserves a mention. Recovering on the Scarfed U-Turn can really throw your opponent as they will have to switch something into Mewtwo, which will probably be outsped (who runs 2 scarves on a team?).

There are other scenarios where careful placement of EVs can make a difference against Genesect:

252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Rock: 212-252 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

as opposed to:

+1 252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 318-374 (71.6 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

it's a slim chance but still a chance nonetheless. These calcs obviously apply to Arceus-Fairy too (and Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Psychic, Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Ice to lesser degrees), if running 252 Speed and 252 HP Timid. Obviously this is again specific as Fairyceus and Grassceus often run heavy Special Defense investment, Arceus-Rock likes Defense to square off against Ho-Oh better, and Psychic/Ice formes are - erm - let's say lesser used instead of awful.

I'd also like to mention that Reshiram (yay! go Reshiram!) is quite hard for Genesect to revenge kill without blowing itself up, as she resists Iron Head and U-Turn/Bug Buzz, and has high Special Defense to not care too much about special coverage moves either - aaand Genesect will get the Attack boost due to Reshiram's base 120 Special Defense vs her base 100 Defense.

Sorry for the huge paragraph on stuff that may seem VERY specific, but i think that this EV tweaking deserves a mention on Pokemon that Genesect might try to take advantage of.

Some final things that are maybe worth noting when this gets written up:

252 Atk Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 416-492 (118.1 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

compared to:

+1 4 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 452-536 (131.7 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 200-236 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

so the choice between Blaze Kick and Flamethrower is not necessarily completely straightforward. oh and Scizor needs to run Careful nature and almost max Special Defense to give Genesect an Attack Boost.

Sorry for the huge specific post, hope this helps a little bit :)
 
rileydelete Not a QC member but I thought of some points:

Thunderbolt is rubbish at everything:

252 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 140-166 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - with Special Scarf it sucks.

4 SpA Genesect Thunderbolt vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 114-136 (33.3 - 39.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - ew no.

and Thunder kindof sucks too:

4 SpA Genesect Thunder vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 138-164 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

in fact, U-Turn would do more against Kyogre (this is of course assuming physically based Scarf)

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Kyogre: 178-210 (52 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

against Kyogre, U-turn:

does more damage

you outspeed every single variant of Kyogre anyway

U-Turn is invaluable as it lets you stay a step ahead of Kyogre if it switches out, and if it stays in you don't get choice locked into a weak coverage move for something nasty to set up on (granted, they get to see what you bring out with U-Turn)

Ice Beam is indispensable as Fireburn mentioned ...or you could be a real man and use Blizzard (pls no)

I also have a point that i have no description for, it's more of a safeguard against Genesect. Darkrai and Mewtwo (no Mega Stone) are both checked by Scarf Genesect. Now, they both have equal Defense and Special Defense (90/90 base for both of them), assuming standard Timid 252 Speed 252 Special Attack spreads. a good thing to do with these two (and others which i'll get to) is to throw the 4 remaining EVs into a particular stat to break Genesect's boosts. For example, in order to prevent Genesect from getting an Attack boost, both Darkrai and Mewtwo should put the last 4 EVs into Defense (giving 217/216 for them). This means that you can switch out and have the switchin take less damage from U-Turn due to it being unboosted, or, if using Mewtwo with Recover, you can take a gamble if at high health and Recover as Genesect U-Turns:

252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 236-278 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

which leads to a net loss of 17-29% health, as opposed to:

+1 252 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mewtwo: 356-420 (100.8 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

which leaves you with the choice of switch or die. as specific as this sounds, i still think it deserves a mention. Recovering on the Scarfed U-Turn can really throw your opponent as they will have to switch something into Mewtwo, which will probably be outsped (who runs 2 scarves on a team?).

There are other scenarios where careful placement of EVs can make a difference against Genesect:

252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arceus-Rock: 212-252 (47.7 - 56.7%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO

as opposed to:

+1 252 Atk Genesect Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Rock: 318-374 (71.6 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

it's a slim chance but still a chance nonetheless. These calcs obviously apply to Arceus-Fairy too (and Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Psychic, Arceus-Grass and Arceus-Ice to lesser degrees), if running 252 Speed and 252 HP Timid. Obviously this is again specific as Fairyceus and Grassceus often run heavy Special Defense investment, Arceus-Rock likes Defense to square off against Ho-Oh better, and Psychic/Ice formes are - erm - let's say lesser used instead of awful.

I'd also like to mention that Reshiram (yay! go Reshiram!) is quite hard for Genesect to revenge kill without blowing itself up, as she resists Iron Head and U-Turn/Bug Buzz, and has high Special Defense to not care too much about special coverage moves either - aaand Genesect will get the Attack boost due to Reshiram's base 120 Special Defense vs her base 100 Defense.

Sorry for the huge paragraph on stuff that may seem VERY specific, but i think that this EV tweaking deserves a mention on Pokemon that Genesect might try to take advantage of.

Some final things that are maybe worth noting when this gets written up:

252 Atk Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 264-312 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Genesect Blaze Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 416-492 (118.1 - 139.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

compared to:

+1 4 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 4 SpD Mega Scizor: 452-536 (131.7 - 156.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Genesect Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 200-236 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

so the choice between Blaze Kick and Flamethrower is not necessarily completely straightforward. oh and Scizor needs to run Careful nature and almost max Special Defense to give Genesect an Attack Boost.

Sorry for the huge specific post, hope this helps a little bit :)

Hey man, thanks for the Calcs! I agree with you 100%, Thunderbolt is crap. U-turn does to more damage to 'Ogre. I've used Genesect for a long time, and it definitely has a niche as a scarfer, being able to outrun ScarfOgre, Arceus forms, and more.

Reshiram is a great check to Genesect and borders on a counter. You're dead on :)

Thanks for your comments man, they're really appreciated and accurate!
 
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