Giant Killers

[chuie]

So as we come to the end of this generation I've decided to do a RMT on my uu/"ou" team. I've stuck with it for a very long time and am pretty proud of it, hitting 3rd or 4th on the UU ladder earlier this year. Because Umbreon has just barely bumped back up to OU however, and that I feel that I can't play without it, I've mostly been playing in OU as of late. While never hitting the top 50 I'm still pretty happy with how it's fared, defeating a decent amount of OU teams. As such I am calling them the Giant Killers, as just like the term that is used in soccer (or anime) suggests, they are able to create a giant killing, toppling the most popular of Pokemon with the humblest of appearances.


The team is a defensively balanced team, solid in its ability to cater to most threats and punish when given the chance. My general strategy lies entirely in the opponent, reading into what he or she is most likely to do and move from there.

Ambipom (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Payback
- Return
- Low Kick


The start and end of my team. This thing has saved me so many matches with its flexibility and unpredictability. As a starter, it KOs a significant amount of Pokemon with Fake Out + Return. Life Orb and Return are necessary over Silk Scarf, U-Turn or Aerial Ace for the power, and Payback and Low Kick for the type coverage. It is the end game where Ambipom truly shines though, with the threat of Fake Out creating some of the most thrilling mind games, scraping through with just a slither of health left to claim victory.

Moltres @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Overheat
- Air Slash
- Sleep Talk
- U-turn


With the greatest attacking stat on my team everything is done to reinforce this, including a modest over timid nature, a Choice Specs and Overheat. While seemingly overkill a simple Air Slash is able to 2 or 3HKO bulky waters. With residual damage, this can be deadly. Although some may also ask why a Hidden Power isn't used, it is so that Moltres becomes the perfect Breloom counter if it is switched into Spore (Venusaur in UU). Using Sleep Talk, it means that there is roughly a 2/3 chance that Breloom will be knocked out, and a 1/3 that I get out safely, rather than being locked into an ineffective Hidden Power as it 'punishes' me with Stone Edge or Substitute. This is immensely successful, with hardly anyone ever switching after sporing Moltres.

Torterra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 216 HP/20 Atk/252 Def/20 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Wood Hammer
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed

The defensive core of my team. While noticeably weak to the weakest of Ice Beams and to a bunch of other common attacks, its weaknesses are more than compensated by its ability to fearlessly go up against the standard Gyarados or Tyranitar, lay some rocks in their face, knock them out and live to see the light of day. It also has great synergy with Moltres and Umbreon, with each of their weaknesses throughly covered. Leech Seed is for passive healing and punishment for those cocky levitating steels or flying fires that come in for the switch in.

Umbreon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 216 HP/40 Atk/252 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Payback
- Wish
- Protect
- Baton Pass

The supportive heart and the ultimate troll. With Baton Pass, it turns those who seek to hunt on its two weaknesses, Bug and Fighting, into the hunted with a swift switch to Moltres. Payback is there to take out Gengar and represent some semblance of an attack. When the threats are cleared it can wish and heal the team, or Protect and preserve itself. The lifesaver, this has shows how there is a use to Umbreon outside of baton passing Mean Look (*cough* current Umbreon article *cough*).

Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Recover

The token bulky water beating Dragon, chosen as overall I felt it had the right defenses on both sides of the spectrum. Oh, and recover. Toxic is for other Waters, and I don't think I need to explain the other two.

Hitmontop (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Foresight
- Rapid Spin
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch


With every Moltres comes a Rapid Spinner. Not only does it work well with Moltres, it provides a desperately needed second bug resistance which I can fall back to if Stealth Rock is up and an opposing Scizor is out. It also can, with perfect prediction (unless a team runs two ghosts), get rid of the rocks in every situation as it can foresight upon an oncoming ghost, take a hit and then spin for the win. Two fighting type moves may seem silly, but when you're up against an Empoleon with Substitute or a rampaging Lucario you'll be glad Mach Punch was there.



As you may or may not see, for this team to be successful it requires a decent amount of predicting, and certain combinations of Pokemon to not be in play. Its strengths are in being able to handle so many things, whittling the opponents down until they're weak enough for Ambipom to clear past. The synergy between the team is very tight, with each Pokemon and every move serving a crucial role, hardly giving the opponent any openings to tear through.

Its weakness however, is that these few openings are game breaking. It is particularly threatened for example by Dragonite, Metagross, and Lucario, all capable of sweeping my team given the right conditions. It also becomes very unstable if a Pokemon gets knocked out, and lacks the pushing power to break dedicated stall teams.

Nevertheless it is a strong team that one should be wary of, unless of course they want to face a... GIANT KILLING (if you haven't watched it, watch it)!

 

[SlimMan]

I like the fact that you use UU mons in OU. however, it has some flaws.

Ambipom is just too frail to stay in and attempt a sweep. Plus, its speed means that it'll rarely go last. For these reasons, I HIGHLY suggest replacing it with U-Turn. on Ambipom, it makes for very valuable scouting. But Low Kick is good for those Rock/Steels who think they resist Ambipom's STAB moves.

Torterra, not being a lead, may not get in until late-game. For that reason, I suggest you replace SR with Rock Polish. It'll turn him into a potent sweeper.

Umbreon is really only good as a staller, IMO, so perhaps you could make it into one. Toxic over Payback, since Umbreon has slightly mediocre attacking stats. Then a Mean Look rather than Baton Pass. If they can't switch, they can't reset the Toxic damage, thus bringing them to a swift end. Wish and Protect should stay exactly as they are for max stalling.

A Milotic has high enough Sp Defense to take an un-STABed T-bolt, so perhaps you would repalce Toxic with Mirror Coat. it can devastate Rotom formes, Jolteon, etc. then you Recover the lost health back. It's a deadly move combo, when used correctly and with good prediction, so I heartily recommend you try it out. Besides, Milotic lacks the move-set to properly Toxi-stall in the first place.

Your Hitmontop and Moltres look good to me.

This looks like a good team, and I hope you have fun with it. I lost my train of thought, so bye. :)

 

[Super Mario Bro]

Very nice team! I have been using many "UU Pokemon in OU" teams lately myself.

First of all, you are lacking a steel type, which is a problem because everything on this team gets hit pretty hard by Dragon Type moves. This means that Pokemon like MixNite and DDNite (especially the latter) will tear you up.

I feel like Steelix over Torterra will help this situation immensely, and it also gives you the best physical tank, Specs Jolteon counter, and pHazer in the game!

Steelix @ Leftovers
Careful
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpD/4 Atk
-Stone Edge
-Stealth Rock
-Earthquake
-Roar

Steelix is great at handling Life Orb DD Nite, who Milotic and Torterra struggle against.

Speaking of Milotic, this is my favorite EV spread (I have been using Milotic on literally all of my teams as of late). It lets you shrug off hits from Starmie and Gengar, and gives you a very nice blend of Defense and Special Defense.

Calm
EVs: 252 HP/240 Def/16 SpD

On Milotic, place Haze over Ice Beam to eliminate stat boosts of Pokemon like Suicune, who can give your team trouble.

Finally, consider placing Choice Scarf on Moltres to help handle Boosting Infernape (an issue at the moment). It also gives your team some needed speed.

Now, everything seems to be covered -- Good Luck.

 

[chuie]

@SlimMan

Ambipom isn't really designed to stay in, so usually how it plays out is that it won't show up again until late game. That's why I think U-turn is unnecessary, it won't do much to things it'll switch out on (ie steels), and switching achieves the same goal without life orb damage.

Torterra can sneak into many more early situations than you'd think in OU. While not as effective as it is in uu, Torterra can switch into many of Ambipom's initial counters. Tyranitar is one example. Also, as long as there's no HP Ice it can even switch in on a Thunderbolt from a Zapdos or Rotom forme and lay down Stealth Rock from there.

That's why I depend on Umbreon and its ability to Wishpass, since I can be fairly reckless like that. While Mean Look/Toxic is a very attractive combination, it's only possible on Pokemon that are no threat to me in the first place. What will usually happen is that a Scizor or a Fighting type like Lucario will come in the moment the opponent sees Umbreon, meaning if I ran Mean Look I'll be in a huge disadvantage on the next turn, as I'd have to switch out anyway. Baton overrides that, removes the shaky prediction that comes from smart switching, and puts great pressure on the opponent. Once again Payback may seem weak, but Gengar can be a problem without it, and its damage output is not *that* horrid. It is still the equivalent of a STAB Earthquake, and can break the substitutes of fragile Pokemon.

Mirror Coat is an interesting idea, but it feels like it'll be a one trick pony the entire match. Besides Magnezone, every other electric type is handled well by Umbreon, and Grass types fare even worse against Moltres, so it's not vital for me to use Mirror Coat. While I may not be able to stall a Pokemon out, Toxic does enough to whittle away the health of bulky waters to be in killing range of either Ambipom or Moltres.


@Super Mario Bro.

Hmm I'm a huge fan of Torterra so although I like your idea of replacing it with Steelix, I'm going to kindly reject it =) Removing Torterra, while alleviating my problems regarding Dragonite, open up new holes. Water types will pose more of a threat, as even though Torterra can't take them on directly it still presents problems for Waters in return once it is in. Steelix can't do that, and is just bait for them. Secondly is that if Stealth Rock is up there is a lack of a Ground resistance, making it problematic if something like Mamoswine or Rhyperior were to appear. The closest replacement I reckon would be Hippowdon with its better bulk, but if I had the choice I wouldn't play in the sand.

Hmm I would agree with your spread for Milotic if I had a Steelix to deal with Dragonite. I don't think Infernape is that much of an issue; Milotic handles most types as it is, and if worst comes to worst Ambipom can come in to Fake Out (if it has a decent amount of HP it'll need to come in twice though).

You've spotted the Suicune problem though. That however, largely lies in its move set. If Suicune doesn't have substitute, I can usually Toxic it and kill it before the opponent realises the damage I've done (Milotic Toxic->Umbreon->Baton Pass Ambipom->Fake Out->Return). As it stands, giving up Haze just to stop a possible Suicune sweep doesn't justify the things that Toxic covers, namely Vaporeon, Roost boosting DNite, and a Tauntless Gyarados.

If you haven't noticed by now, I really, really dislike opposing Waters so I like the extra oomph and surprise value that is provided by Specs over Scarf for Moltres.

 

[SlimMan]

May I make one more suggestion? STABed EQ and Wood Hammer will decimate most things that don't resist them, and the things that do resist them you shouldn't have Torterra out against anyway. In short, Torterra will theoretically Quickly kill any poke he's out against. So I don't see how much recovery Leech Seed will really give. Perhaps you can replace it with. rock Polish. Without RP, Torterra is simply too slow to pull off a good sweep. I still recommend it, though whether you use it or not is your prerogative. :) That's all.

 

[ginganinja]

While I applaud you using UU's in OU you are very weak to a number of threats. Offensive Suicune destroys you since Torrtera is not standing up to it. You only bet is toxicing it with Milotic which means that it will basically come down to if Suicune can swep your team before Toxic Damage KO's it....this hardly a viable solution. Also Bulky Dos laughs at you and sweeps you with ease.

However in rating this team I am unsure what you actually want. Do you want OU pokemon to be recomended or to you want to make this team as UU as possiable?

also this confuses me

Hmm I'm a huge fan of Torterra so although I like your idea of replacing it with Steelix, I'm going to kindly reject it =)

So.... you don't want to make a team better because "its your favorite"
I think I am being slightly harsh and I apologize for this but I guess I get fed up with people ignoring advice because 'its my favorite pokemon'

Regardless I think that Haze on Milotic is needed so that you are not swept by things such as Suicune.

Also again, can we suggest OU pokemon in helping your team or do you want to make the best UU team in OU kinda thing?

Also

Have a Nice day!

 

[chuie]

Even though I am being biased, I think I've outlined its qualities to justify its use. I suppose I could change Leech Seed, it's just that I remember situations where it has helped tremendously. Is bulky Gyara really that threatening? Wood Hammer does about 30%+ to it I reckon, and since bulkies tend not to have Ice Fang it should be okay.

Offensive Suicune can be handled. It takes quite a lot of CMs before Suicune can knock down Umbreon, who I can switch to after using Milotic's Toxic. So, assuming that and LO damage, it will usually come out on top.

I'd like to make this as UU as possible, but any realistic suggestion would be welcomed. I don't think alternatives can be made without a significant change though, as even the example of replacing Torterra with Steelix will cause in my mind will mean a greater vulnerability to Ground type attacks and bulky Waters. Of course that comes with the benefit of not worrying about Dragonite haha.

 

[ginganinja]

O.K fair enough then!

Bulky Gyarados 3KO's with Waterfall although I believe that Recoil from Wood Hammer can push you into that 2KO threshold
This is pretty good and you are doing about 40-49% back however its worse if SR is not yet up because then Gyarados can safely go for a second DD.

However 16% of Gyarados carry Bounce as their second move. This is very threatening to you as a 1+ Bounce does 98.7% - 116.88% to you. Sure its not hugely commmon but you pretty much lose straight up if they do carry it.

Heck offensive Gyarados (without Taunt) are also dangerous. Milotic can get off a Taunt (since 1+ Earthquake does 48.09% - 56.74%) but again Milotic must be above half health or it loses. Gyarados then does about 63.61% - 75.06% to Umbreon just with a single dragon Dance

I suppose Suicune is barely handled, however what I am most afraid of is your opponent getting smart with his predictions and Coming while you Protect. Its risky but it can pay off. Also note that most Suicune now carry Leftovers so its soley TOxic damage that you are relying on.

To conclude not much is straight up sweeping you from the start but mid-late game when Umbreon/Milotic are at low health you are very vulnerable.

On the team itself I still think that Hp Electric/Haze is very helpful to Milotic. It also covers you slight weakness to Gyarados.

I am also not sold on the Idea of Sleep Talk. Basically even if you do select the right move you are locked into a move and must switch out. Also while you are asleep you can only use Sleeptalk once until you switch back out otherwise the move whille fail. I guess its o.k but personally Moltress is an excellent Breloom counter anyway and does not realy need to be slept to be effective.

Personally I would enjoy Roar over Leech Seed on Torrterra since its low speed means that its not as efffective as it could be. Roar also allows you to force out Set up sweepers like Gyarados or Dragonite.

I cannot think of much else to add to the team at the moment, I may come back and edit this post later.

have a Nice Day!