ORAS UU Giving UU a shot

DogooSenpai

DogooSenpai

Hi all,

I'm new to this type of team building advice and the UU tier in general. I generally make teams but I feel I don't have the experience behind me in the game to make my team as efficient as it could be. So after making this as good as I can, I came to everyone here for help.

sceptile-mega.gif


Sceptile-Mega @ Sceptilite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Focus Blast

So my first choice for the team was Mega Sceptile. I chose this as a base because it is a fast special attacker who can potentially sweep in the late game. I also included him so that combined with his speed, if he can be switched onto an electric type and make use of Lightning Rod, it can make holes in the opposing team. The set is fairly basic with Dragon Pulse and Giga Drain to make use of it's STAB's and HP Ice to deal with pokemon such as Gligar along with Focus Blast for extra damage and to Dark types.

rotom-heat.gif


Rotom-Heat @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Volt Switch
- Overheat
- Will-O-Wisp
- Thunderbolt

My specially defensive wall, my reasoning for putting it in the team is to cover for Sceptile's 4x Ice weakness and to provide some special bulk while dealing back extra damage. It's moveset is fairly standard with Volt Switch to bounce out on a KO or in general for a better match up and Overheat for damage on mons like Cobalion and Forretress. I originally had Signal Beam but decided to replace it with Thunderbolt so that I was never forced to switch if a match up was favorable to me.

hitmontop.gif


Hitmontop @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Mach Punch
- Rapid Spin
- Toxic
- Rest

Hitmontop was my next choice, I placed him here as my spinner and have noticed that the bulk is a nice extra to switch into as well. I have a Chesto Berry on him because he will normally be the mon that will be switched into status to protect others. His move set I feel can be improved with it's only real attacking move being Mach Punch and my support move of Rapid Spin. Aside from that I have Rest to regenerate HP and be rid of status and Toxic to poison any mons where poisoning it is viable.

swampert.gif


Swampert @ Choice Band
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Waterfall
- Ice Punch
- Superpower

Probably the hardest hitter on my team, I placed Swampert in the team because it's water and ground typing provides powerful STAB's and when combined with the Choice Band can pick up OHKO's nicely and be a potential wall breaker. I chose to have near max HP over Speed because I feel that having the extra bulk would prove to be more beneficial than investing in speed as I don't feel this will be outspeeding too many of the mons it would be used to KO. The moveset, once again makes use of STAB with Earthquake and Waterfall and moves like Ice Punch and Superpower provide nice coverage for other mons.

porygon2.gif


Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 SpD
Modest Nature
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Discharge
- Tri Attack

Porygon2 was a late change for the team and provides nice bulk with Eviolite and walls a lot of mons while being an annoyance and paralyzing most mons with Discharge allowing for slower mons in the team, like Swampert, to pick up KO's after Porygon2 is done. I originally had Thunder Wave over Recover and Thunderbolt over Discharge but I changed that because Recover gives it some recovery, making it a solid wall and opting for Discharge because of the 30% accuracy for a para opening up the spot for Recover.

azelf.gif


Azelf @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch

Azlef is used mostly as a fast revenge killer to pick up KO's on low health mons. It can, when given the chance inflict large amounts of damage to opponents or simply come in and U-Turn back out into a better match up. The moveset is similar to Swampert in the sense it is purely made to cover as much as possible and pick up KO' where ever it can.

That is the team I have designed, i'm not sure what I can do to make it better but all feedback is welcome and greatly appreciated. Also the EV spreads are simple because I don't know which and for what reasons I should change them. Anyways thanks for your help. :)
 
Hello there, that's a pretty cool team based around some very weird sets, like Choice Band Swampert and physical Azelf. One change I actually know you should make is Leaf Storm > Giga Drain or HP Ice on Mega Sceptile. Your team has a bit of trouble with bulky waters, and Mega Sceptile is your most reliable answer to them. But Giga Drain can't hurt +1 Suicune too hard, but Leaf Storm OHKOs it after rocks. Honestly, I would replace HP Ice with Leaf Storm because you already hit Gligar for a good chunk with Dragon Pulse or Giga Drain anyways. Another change I would make is add a Stealth Rocker to your team. Stealth Rock is needed on pretty much any team nowadays, as the chip damage is always nice to secure some 2HKOs and OHKOs. Therefore, I think you should make your Swampert bulky with Leftovers with this moveset:

Swampert Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVS: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Roar / Toxic / Protect
This will help you get up the rocks and also makes you handle Entei a bit better. I hope these changes will help!
 
BrandonBeast said:
Hello there, that's a pretty cool team based around some very weird sets, like Choice Band Swampert and physical Azelf. One change I actually know you should make is Leaf Storm > Giga Drain or HP Ice on Mega Sceptile. Your team has a bit of trouble with bulky waters, and Mega Sceptile is your most reliable answer to them. But Giga Drain can't hurt +1 Suicune too hard, but Leaf Storm OHKOs it after rocks. Honestly, I would replace HP Ice with Leaf Storm because you already hit Gligar for a good chunk with Dragon Pulse or Giga Drain anyways. Another change I would make is add a Stealth Rocker to your team. Stealth Rock is needed on pretty much any team nowadays, as the chip damage is always nice to secure some 2HKOs and OHKOs. Therefore, I think you should make your Swampert bulky with Leftovers with this moveset:

Swampert Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVS: 240 HP / 16 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Roar / Toxic / Protect
This will help you get up the rocks and also makes you handle Entei a bit better. I hope these changes will help!
Click to expand...

Thank you, I had problems with Entei and Suicune and never had consistent ways to stop them but i'll try out these changes. Thank you :)
 
OK so I'm going to recommend quite a few changes but I'll try to ensure that I've kept in mind that the aim of going around the Mega Sceptile base. Nevertheless, onto the changes. I'd recommend having Energy Ball and Leaf Storm over HP Ice and Giga Drain on Mega Sceptile. Over time I found the damage on Energy Ball to be quite better than Giga Drain's recovery. Allowing Sceptile to beat Suicune without relying on Leaf Storm (even then if Suicune's boosted and plays around it well with Rest, it's RIP) as well as dealing more damage in general. For instance, Giga Drain only 4HKOes Whimsicott after Stealth Rock while Energy Ball has a good chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Nidoqueen has a small chance to be 2HKOed by Giga Drain without any entry hazards but Energy Ball guarantees a 2HKO either way. Hidden Power Ice doesn't really provide Sceptile with anything important coverage wise, considering HP Ice's targets get nailed by one of Sceptile's STABs usually (Gligar can only U-turn for good damage, and Salamence is nailed by Dragon Pulse for examples) and Leaf Storm allows Sceptile to nuke quite a few Pokemon. You can compress roles by having Empoleon over Swampert, which maintains your FWG (Fire-Water-Grass) core, while giving you an entry hazard setter and Defog user for entry hazard removal. You can then have Choice Scarf Mienshao over Hitmontop, as that gives you a good Fighting-type and an even more solid Choice Scarf user (personally never liked Choice Scarf Azelf). Hitmontop isn't too viable in this tier and the set you're using is extremely iffy. This allows you to replace current Azelf set with Nasty Plot Azelf, which gives you a solid win condition and setup sweeper. I would also change Specially Defensive Rotom-H to Physically Defensive, as that gives you some defensive backbone with Empoleon as your special wall and physically defensive variants fare much better in this metagame imo (EVs are 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe ; they allow Rotom-H to outspeed up to Adamant Honchkrow and still retain good physical bulk). Considering you don't have any Fighting-type resists except for Azelf which is frail, I would recommend changing Porygon2 to Florges, as that gives you a Wish passer and cleric to supplement your defensive core and also help you have an easier time dealing with Fighting-type Pokemon.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Defog

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off / Poison Jab
- Stone Edge / Poison Jab

You could run Poison Jab over either Stone Edge or Knock Off should Slurpuff become a seemingly huge problem.

Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Protect / Synthesis
- Wish

You could run Synthesis over Protect should you find the dual recovery a better option for dealing with attackers that try to take advantage of the Protect turns and like the extra recovery.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt / Energy Ball / Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot

Thunderbolt allows Azelf to hit bulky Water-types, Flying-types and Empoleon harder than the other options, although Energy Ball still retains the coverage on bulky Water-types but also hits Swampert, Seismitoad, Quagsire and Rhyperior for more damage whereas Dazzling Gleam allows Azelf to smack Dark-types for super effective damage, notably hitting Hydreigon which resists the other coverage moves.
 
Kreme said:
OK so I'm going to recommend quite a few changes but I'll try to ensure that I've kept in mind that the aim of going around the Mega Sceptile base. Nevertheless, onto the changes. I'd recommend having Energy Ball and Leaf Storm over HP Ice and Giga Drain on Mega Sceptile. Over time I found the damage on Energy Ball to be quite better than Giga Drain's recovery. Allowing Sceptile to beat Suicune without relying on Leaf Storm (even then if Suicune's boosted and plays around it well with Rest, it's RIP) as well as dealing more damage in general. For instance, Giga Drain only 4HKOes Whimsicott after Stealth Rock while Energy Ball has a good chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock, Nidoqueen has a small chance to be 2HKOed by Giga Drain without any entry hazards but Energy Ball guarantees a 2HKO either way. Hidden Power Ice doesn't really provide Sceptile with anything important coverage wise, considering HP Ice's targets get nailed by one of Sceptile's STABs usually (Gligar can only U-turn for good damage, and Salamence is nailed by Dragon Pulse for examples) and Leaf Storm allows Sceptile to nuke quite a few Pokemon. You can compress roles by having Empoleon over Swampert, which maintains your FWG (Fire-Water-Grass) core, while giving you an entry hazard setter and Defog user for entry hazard removal. You can then have Choice Scarf Mienshao over Hitmontop, as that gives you a good Fighting-type and an even more solid Choice Scarf user (personally never liked Choice Scarf Azelf). Hitmontop isn't too viable in this tier and the set you're using is extremely iffy. This allows you to replace current Azelf set with Nasty Plot Azelf, which gives you a solid win condition and setup sweeper. I would also change Specially Defensive Rotom-H to Physically Defensive, as that gives you some defensive backbone with Empoleon as your special wall and physically defensive variants fare much better in this metagame imo (EVs are 248 HP / 124 Def / 136 Spe ; they allow Rotom-H to outspeed up to Adamant Honchkrow and still retain good physical bulk). Considering you don't have any Fighting-type resists except for Azelf which is frail, I would recommend changing Porygon2 to Florges, as that gives you a Wish passer and cleric to supplement your defensive core and also help you have an easier time dealing with Fighting-type Pokemon.

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Defog

Mienshao @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Reckless
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- U-turn
- Knock Off / Poison Jab
- Stone Edge / Poison Jab

You could run Poison Jab over either Stone Edge or Knock Off should Slurpuff become a seemingly huge problem.

Florges (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell
- Protect / Synthesis
- Wish

You could run Synthesis over Protect should you find the dual recovery a better option for dealing with attackers that try to take advantage of the Protect turns and like the extra recovery.

Azelf @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt / Energy Ball / Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot

Thunderbolt allows Azelf to hit bulky Water-types, Flying-types and Empoleon harder than the other options, although Energy Ball still retains the coverage on bulky Water-types but also hits Swampert, Seismitoad, Quagsire and Rhyperior for more damage whereas Dazzling Gleam allows Azelf to smack Dark-types for super effective damage, notably hitting Hydreigon which resists the other coverage moves.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, I will use these changes and see what difference it makes. Hopefully your advice will help me learn more about the tier in general. Thanks a bunch :)
 
Hi DogooSenpai,

Interesting team. There are definitely some nonstandard choices here which is always cool to see, but some are less than optimal in my opinion. I'll try to change as little as possible about the team in this rate while still improving the efficiency of the sets you are running.

My first change is for Mega Sceptile. Hidden Power Ice doesn't actually give you a ton of extra coverage in terms of damage. I can see what you'd want to hit, probably Gligars, grass types and Salamences. However, you don't actually have too much to fear with these mons with Mega Sceptile. Typical Gligar sets can't really hit you for much damage, considering Knock Off and EQ are the two most common attacking moves on them, so wearing them down with your moves is a fine option. Premier grass types of the tier such as Tangrowth or Shaymin aren't actually taking all that much from HP Ice, so you can consider Dragon Pulse "good enough" coverage in this sense. And you outspeed and OHKO Mence with Dpulse anyway, so you don't have to worry there. As such I would drop this move. From here, you have two directions I think you can go. Other have suggested Energy Ball, which I believe to be a very good option, but you could also replace it with Substitute. Sub is a good move to ease prediction and avoid status when up against mons that may come in such as P2. Additionally, I would strongly recommend running a Modest MScep, as the only real speed tier you miss out on is vs other Sceptiles and Mega Beedrills, but frankly you are rarely going to want to risk the speed tie with either in the first place.

To be completely honest I struggle to see the point in using SpDef Rotom-H now that Mega Pidgeot is out of the tier. You mention ice type attacks but, speaking frankly, there just aren't a lot of ice type special attackers that you're really going to want to switch in on. The only one I really see in all of the A-S tier is Abomasnow, which is fair enough to have a counter to considering you are running Mega Sceptile, but in my estimation physical Abomasnow is a much better and more common set. You're also going to want to beat Mamoswine very regularly, considering he too present a massive problem for Sceptile, so I think running a physically defensive set in this case is your best option (just switch those EVs over).

Hitmontop should almost 100% of the time have Intimidate as its ability. Being able to soften oncoming blows is just too important, and frankly Mach Punch is never hitting the big heights of damage in the first place.

I like the idea of CB Pert. Haven't seen it used in ages, but I won't touch that one because it's an interesting set. There are better wallbreakers out there IMO but, in this rate as I said, I'm attempting to optimize existing sets should you want to keep the 6 mons the same.

The P2 set is horribly inefficient I think. If you want a special attacker spreading status you could use something like Whimsicott. I think your effort with P2 is currently in a "halfway" mark where it isn't quite sure what to do with itself. The set I would suggest is 252 HP / 100+ Def / 152 SpDef with T-Wave/Tri Attack/Recover/Ice Beam and Trace. This set beats pretty much everything yours does while performing much better in P2's signature "check half the tier" role.

Finally, scarf Azelf is a really specific mon and is not terribly useful that often. If you insist on running it, I would use a special set at the very least so that intimidate users don't put an end to it's cleaning process. However, the better set for what I think you want to accomplish would be an SR set with Energy Ball/Psychic/Fire Blast, though Tbolt can be used over EB if you want to beat Empoleons, considering you already have a fast and strong grass type attacker. Your team needs Stealth Rock though in order to soften up mons for Scep if you want to sweep later one.

As said before, all these changes are primarily meant to keep your team the same 6 mons. There are some suggestions above in Kreme's post that do well should you want to change the structure of the team, I intend only to optimize what you've already presented this time.
 
teal6 said:
Hi DogooSenpai,

Interesting team. There are definitely some nonstandard choices here which is always cool to see, but some are less than optimal in my opinion. I'll try to change as little as possible about the team in this rate while still improving the efficiency of the sets you are running.

My first change is for Mega Sceptile. Hidden Power Ice doesn't actually give you a ton of extra coverage in terms of damage. I can see what you'd want to hit, probably Gligars, grass types and Salamences. However, you don't actually have too much to fear with these mons with Mega Sceptile. Typical Gligar sets can't really hit you for much damage, considering Knock Off and EQ are the two most common attacking moves on them, so wearing them down with your moves is a fine option. Premier grass types of the tier such as Tangrowth or Shaymin aren't actually taking all that much from HP Ice, so you can consider Dragon Pulse "good enough" coverage in this sense. And you outspeed and OHKO Mence with Dpulse anyway, so you don't have to worry there. As such I would drop this move. From here, you have two directions I think you can go. Other have suggested Energy Ball, which I believe to be a very good option, but you could also replace it with Substitute. Sub is a good move to ease prediction and avoid status when up against mons that may come in such as P2. Additionally, I would strongly recommend running a Modest MScep, as the only real speed tier you miss out on is vs other Sceptiles and Mega Beedrills, but frankly you are rarely going to want to risk the speed tie with either in the first place.

To be completely honest I struggle to see the point in using SpDef Rotom-H now that Mega Pidgeot is out of the tier. You mention ice type attacks but, speaking frankly, there just aren't a lot of ice type special attackers that you're really going to want to switch in on. The only one I really see in all of the A-S tier is Abomasnow, which is fair enough to have a counter to considering you are running Mega Sceptile, but in my estimation physical Abomasnow is a much better and more common set. You're also going to want to beat Mamoswine very regularly, considering he too present a massive problem for Sceptile, so I think running a physically defensive set in this case is your best option (just switch those EVs over).

Hitmontop should almost 100% of the time have Intimidate as its ability. Being able to soften oncoming blows is just too important, and frankly Mach Punch is never hitting the big heights of damage in the first place.

I like the idea of CB Pert. Haven't seen it used in ages, but I won't touch that one because it's an interesting set. There are better wallbreakers out there IMO but, in this rate as I said, I'm attempting to optimize existing sets should you want to keep the 6 mons the same.

The P2 set is horribly inefficient I think. If you want a special attacker spreading status you could use something like Whimsicott. I think your effort with P2 is currently in a "halfway" mark where it isn't quite sure what to do with itself. The set I would suggest is 252 HP / 100+ Def / 152 SpDef with T-Wave/Tri Attack/Recover/Ice Beam and Trace. This set beats pretty much everything yours does while performing much better in P2's signature "check half the tier" role.

Finally, scarf Azelf is a really specific mon and is not terribly useful that often. If you insist on running it, I would use a special set at the very least so that intimidate users don't put an end to it's cleaning process. However, the better set for what I think you want to accomplish would be an SR set with Energy Ball/Psychic/Fire Blast, though Tbolt can be used over EB if you want to beat Empoleons, considering you already have a fast and strong grass type attacker. Your team needs Stealth Rock though in order to soften up mons for Scep if you want to sweep later one.

As said before, all these changes are primarily meant to keep your team the same 6 mons. There are some suggestions above in Kreme's post that do well should you want to change the structure of the team, I intend only to optimize what you've already presented this time.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I have taken the advice of everyone and am trying to find how it will work, I will take these changes to the 6 mons I currently have and will try that out. Thank you :)
 
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