Glacier -- A Hail Team

[kyu]

Glacier; A Hail Team

I have experimented with many variations of hail teams, and I'm posting this one because it's one of my favorites so far. Typically I would stick to the make-up of three Ice-types and three bulk -- this one came as a product of many sequential changes to that archetype. The idea behind this team is to abuse the offensive Ice qualities while simultaneously compensating for its atrocious defense. Hail makes it possible to stall out offensive threats even if I have no immediate answers to them. I've done my best to incorporate synergy and minimize weaknesses, although the recent change to a Glaceon sweeper is more ambitious.
​

Abomasnow @ Leftovers

252 HP / 20 SpA / 160 SpD / 78 Spe

(Sassy)
Snow Warning
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Focus Punch

While Abomasnow has some interesting starting options, I've never managed to create a completely stable Abomasnow lead. Often he switches out quickly due to his inconvenient weaknesses. I played with the idea of an anti-lead Weavile set, but Abomasnow is unreliable and hard to bring in midgame.

The previous set was Leech Seed, Protect, Blizzard, Wood Hammer. I'm missing Wood Hammer's STAB and Protect's scouting properties, but this moveset has been working alright. I'm staying with a mixed attacker because Blizzard gives me an easy answer to suicide leads like Aerodactyl, and to a lesser degree Azelf, which are common enough. After their lead sets up, they often switch to an Abomasnow counter, so Substitute goes up. SubSeeding and Focus Punch makes him viable against Blissey. Focus Punch helps against some steels that Blizzard and Wood Hammer would be useless against, although since Metagross and Heatran switch-ins are so common I'm considering Earthquake instead. In fact, I almost want to run a Scarf or Band set with Ice Shard, Wood Hammer, Focus Punch, and Earthquake.

EVs are tentative; I didn't actually change them from the last set because I haven't had any ideas. More speed EVs isn't appealing because most leads are tuned to outspeed other leads with a close base, and Abomasnow is typically slower than all of them.

Glaceon @ Brightpowder

252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe

(Modest)
Snow Cloak
- Fake Tears
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power Ground
- Yawn

Mission statement of this team: To sweep with Glaceon. I know this isn't the smartest decision, but Glaceon is a favorite of mine and after a long hiatus I've brought her back.

A quick set overview: Blizzard because it's an amazing offensive move and with STAB and 393 SpA, it decimates anything even neutral to Ice. See later in the thread for my thoughts on HP Ground (if someone could help me consider threats it would be appreciated.) Fake Tears prevents Blissey and other walls from absorbing hits; she will kill a standard Blissey after two Fake Tears, and most other things after one. Yawn is a more immediate solution to tanks that shrug off her attacks; sometimes I need it if I'm racing to make the most of a Reflect or Light Screen.

Glaceon suffers from being mono-Ice and relatively slow. In order to compensate for her fragility, and enable a sweep, Rotom and Bronzong provide support beforehand. Glaceon can really be a force if set-up properly. Currently looking into Speed EVs.

Offensive percentages...

(numbers in parentheses mean SpD stages)

Blizzard vs. Blissey (-4): 72.53% - 85.32%
Blizzard vs. WishBliss (-4): 60.98% - 71.74%
Blizzard vs. Skarmory: 86.83% - 102.10%
Blizzard vs. MixPert: 59.10% - 69.58%
Blizzard vs. CursePert (-2): 95.54% - 112.38%
Blizzard vs. Defensive CM Latias (no CMs): 102.66% - 121.01%
Blizzard vs. Electivire: 85.22% - 100.34%
Blizzard vs. Bulky Gyara: 58.65% - 68.92%
Blizzard vs. Machamp: 64.58% - 76.04%
Blizzard vs. Scizor: 44.98% - 52.94%
HP Ground vs. SubPetaya Empoleon: 53.53% - 62.82%
HP Ground vs. ScarfTran: 100.00% - 117.90%
HP Ground vs. Infernape (Naive): 85.32% - 100.34% (additional 18.75% with LO)
HP Ground vs. Metagross: 51.10% - 60.16%

I tried to choose threats that weren't obvious (like Gliscor or Mence) -- there are certainly plenty that Glaceon could OHKO. After you get the screens up, surprisingly little can take out Glaceon without first taking a strong hit. Although, there are some with walling abilities that Glaceon can't beat -- Lax, Vaporeon, and Bronzong for example.

Tentacruel @ Leftovers

252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD

(Calm)
Liquid Ooze
- Blizzard
- Surf
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin

Standard Toxic Spiker/Spinner. Tentacruel's typing makes it the best spinning option for this team, and it does desperately need a spinner. Glaceon and Abomasnow are both crippled by Stealth Rock, and there is only one rock resistance on the team. Tentacruel is stable enough to guarantee a spin (in the absence of a spin-blocker) and also makes a safe switch due to its Fire/Fight/Steel/Bug resistances. It's tendency to bait Earthquakes makes Bronzong a nice supplement, and Rotom can also come in with its additional Electricity resistance.

Bronzong @ Light Clay

252 HP / 152 Atk / 8 Def / 96 SpD

(Relaxed)
Levitate
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Gyro Ball
- Earthquake

Bronzong fills the vital role of physical support (previous attempts include bulky Arcanine with Will-o-Wisp/Toxic, and defensive Gliscor for typing.) Double Screen cancels out Glaceon's various weaknesses and compliments its good defensive stats. Blissey can also stall indefinitely with Toxic Spikes out. I decided against Explosion... Too often I want to reuse Bronzong or bring him back to life with Blissey, and since he is the only reliable switch-in on physical sweepers I can't make the self-destructing sacrifice.

Rotom-f @ Leftovers

252 HP / 136 Def / 120 SpD

(Calm)
Levitate
- Thunder Wave
- Will-o-Wisp
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt

Note: An older Rotom I used, and loved, was a Scarf-user with Trick/Blizzard/Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Ground -- which made him excellent at taking out threatening dragons and steels -- but with the recent switch to Glaceon I'm trying to use Rotom as support. All three of his immunities are welcome, as it makes him a reliable duo with Tentacruel (spinblocker with Levitate) or Blissey (Fighting immunity, Ghost-weak, with good defensive stats). Thunder Wave and Will-o-Wisp cripple offensive threats that would stand in the way of Glaceon or Blissey lategame, and compounds with the effect of Zong's two screens.

Blissey @ Leftovers

252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD

(Calm)
Natural Cure
- Wish
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Flamethrower

Blissey is the remaining bulk of the team, shrugging off any special hits and status. Midgame she is a useful pivot into Rotom-f or Bronzong as both want to set up against physical threats. Wish support really lengthens the use of Bronzong, Rotom, and Tentacruel, and makes it easier to bring in Glaceon without having to make any sacrifices. She can end the lategame by stalling out a set of Toxic Spikes (with Hail accelerating it.) The beef is really necessary, and she does a lot to negate the defensive lacking on this team.

​

After the early interaction between two leads, the midgame will typically be a juggle of Bronzong, Tentacruel, and Rotom-f, preparing for the lategame. Bronzong is the easiest switch-in, but usually waits unless necessary until it can force a switch and set up two screens. His fire weakness isn't appreciated, and often I'm limited to absorbing Fire and Fight attacks with Tentacruel. Lategame, if successfully set-up, will either rely on a sweep with Glaceon or a stall with Blissey (either is possible after I've seen their entire team). Overall, I'm happy with the team strategy, but certain threats are yet to be accounted for.​

 

[Draco Zephyr]

I recommend leading with a SubPunch/Leech Seed (all-physical) Abomasnow. It doesn't have the greatest type coverage, but works well as a lead nonetheless. Not only does this allow you to utilize the ever-annoying SubSeed strategy, but Focus Punch nets you instant coverage against lead Heatran and Tyranitar, both of which are extremely dangerous to Hail teams. You already have Swampert covered with Wood Hammer, which provides a reliable STAB attack as well.

If you're running Fake Tears on Glaceon, there's no need to run Modest - go for Timid. Glaceon needs all the Speed it can get. It's very susceptible to Choice Scarf revenge-killing. Also, HP Ground isn't really that useful in my opinion. Most Scarfed Heatrans will OHKO you before you get the chance to use it. Instead I think you should go for Shadow Ball, which gives you great type coverage and reliable move against Dusknoir (who usually carries Fire Punch to deal with Scizor).

 

[wildfire393]

For Glaceon, I would suggest the Fake Tears set from the analysis page: Blizzard, HP Fighting or Electric, Wish, and Fake Tears. Wish gives you some longevity, and HP Fighting or Electric gives you better coverage than Ground - HP Fighting/Electric hits every steel at least for neutral (with the exception for Electric on Magnezone and Steelix), with HP Fighting hitting other Ice types super effectively and HP Electric hitting Water types super effectively.
Alternately, over Wish, you could but Baton Pass to scout for her counters.

 

[kyu]

Draco: SubPunch does seem like a good option and I've been thinking about it. I'll try it out soon and see how it does.

As for Glaceon... I don't know. Fake Tears is really only for against special walls (Blissey especially); against any offensive team she can't afford to take the extra hit. The reason I'm focusing on special attack is, because like you said, Glaceon is prone to lose to faster attackers and Scarf users. She can't really outspeed any of them without wearing Scarf herself. That's why I try to inflict paralysis and burn on offensive threats and set up screens before I bring Glaceon in. Good defensive stats and two screens enables Glaceon to actually take strong hits, and has much longer to attempt a sweep. With Light Shield in effect, ScarfTran can't OHKO Glaceon (regardless of nature), and Glaceon will always OHKO him with HP Ground. I could look into devoting some EVs to speed, but first I have to figure out what I would be trying to outrun.

wildfire: I'll give HP Fighting some thought. The way I thought about it is, Blizzard from Glaceon probably hits anything neutral to it harder than the HP would. If the HP hits them neutral and the Blizzard 50%, the Blizzard is still better (although it might be a poor use of the low PP.) Ground and Fighting are the better supplementary offensive types. Steel, Fire, and Water resist Ice -- out of those three, Ground is super-effective against Steel and Fire (neutral to water). I'm looking for strong hits with HP rather than neutral hits. Blizzard is never really unusable unless the threat resist it twice (Heatran and Empoleon). There are some special cases, for example, against Bronzong I would need to resort to Fake Tears and then Blizzard (in this case Fighting would be better), but Skarmory, Gyarados, Gengar all take a lot of damage from neutral Blizzard. This is getting convoluted so I'll stop -- I'll look into whether HP Fighting is better in OU, but this is the process I went through to decide on HP Ground.

 

[kyu]

Made some edits to the first post.

vGX: You're right... physical threats, especially Scizor, have been killing me, and I'm thinking the Rotom-f spot might change to a physical wall (probably Weezing) although I'd hate to see him go. I've tried Walrein before and he's sometimes good on his own, but doesn't really add anything to the team strategy aside from an interaction with Tentacruel. Maybe I'll rethink it.

 

[benthenoob]

You'll want to use rotom-H (Trickscarf) instead of rotom-F.
rotom-H checks a lot of the pokemon that give hail teams difficulty.

also, where is stallrein??

 

[kyu]

Added some Glaceon sweep percentages. I didn't intend it to be impressive, although it gives some justification for HP Ground.

 

[kyu]

I've been playing around with some changes to the team.

Abomasnow
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Grass Knot/Wood Hammer

I realized that it was almost hopeless to try to give Abomasnow good coverage, considering his lack of speed and resistances that make him so easy to counter. The one thing he can do is counter waters -- with water, electric, and grass resistances and neutrality to ice, he resists most of the special attacking water types. That and a ground resistance makes him a great counter to almost any Swampert. With that in mind, I decided to change the last move from Focus Punch back to Grass Knot/Wood Hammer, but I'm not sure which. Grass Knot would let me invest more in SpA EVs and probably hit Hippowdon leads harder. Wood Hammer would make EVing more difficult but hit all waters for high damage and gives Aboma a good chance against a lot of special walls.

Rotom-f @ Choice Scarf
252 SpA/252 Spe/4 HP
(Timid)
- Trick
- Blizzard
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Fire

I switched back to Scarf Rotom because I tended to want another threat on my team. I prefer the refridgerator to the toaster because it's a more subtle Scizor counter; HP Fire is still a OHKO on him, but it's not necessarily expected or obvious. Blizzard and Thunderbolt provide great coverage and Rotom's speed makes him a reliable answer to dragons.

On the Bronzong set I'm wondering if I should switch EQ for Explosion. Typically I do use Bronzong more than once, and EQ makes him a counter to Metagross and even lets him nab the Heatran switch-in. Explosion would give me an easy answer to Gyarados and stop other teams from setting up when I bring him out, but I would miss his longevity.

Blissey
- Wish
- Protect
- Blizzard
- Seismic Toss

Flamethrower picked off Scizor switch-ins, and had more PP than Blizzard, but in general wasn't nearly as useful. Currently I'm trying out Seismic Toss in its place for additional coverage and more reliable damage (since Blissey's Flamethrower isn't really that threatening). Toss might lure Gengar or Rotom into a false sense of security if they haven't seen Blizzard yet.

Tell me what you think.