Going beyond the limits of the game in hacking:

[RyouChan]

Why does this seem so wrong to a bunch of people? Myself I think it's the most harmless kind of hacking unless the person is a total jerk, but then, anything is annoying when the person is a total jerk.

I'm just saying I guess that I don't think there's much wrong with me, after beating the game and being thoroughly bored with Wi-Fi battles, getting someone to make me a flying Venusaur or something ridiculous like that. It really just seems like harmless fun.

I can understand the people who are against hacking in all forms (morals, etc), but the people who want to allow hacking within the limits of the game but not outside of it, I don't really understand. So maybe some of you could explain what you mean.

Now, I'm not talking about "bad" things that they could use these Pokemon for. I'm not talking about sneaking them into tournaments or ripping people off in trades for them. Because honestly, that could be a problem with any kind of hacking. See the Wi-Fi section lately? Paranoia.

Anyways what I'm talking about is the actual hacking of these Pokemon and just using them ingame or in gimmick battles where the other person knows, trading them if the other person knows what they are getting, and etc.


Anyways, opinions.
Hacking things unobtainable through normal gameplay, go.

 

[Synre]

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as you aren't trying to pull a fast one on anyone else with it. You mentioned it already but as long as they aren't using illegal stats/movesets against someone who isn't expecting it or trying to rip someone off in a trade with it I don't see any real justification for complaining about it... no reason not to let people do whatever they want in their own game if they aren't effecting anyone else by doing it.

It's not my cup of tea but I don't see any reason to complain about others doing this sort of thing, whatever makes them happy...

 

[Smasher89]

What I´ve learned in cheating (used codes in Starcrafts campaign) is that it´s much easier to get bored on the game, and not picking it up for quite some time again (I never cleared through all of it´s campaign because someone showed me the codes..).

Hacking (using things like AR)=cheating in my oppinion, if it´s not there ingame, it "shouldnt" be there, lika using sandbag in SSBM, where 2 jumps makes the game freeze.
I actually loled once when I beat someone hacking pokes (ok I got to see some of them first, since they were things like leech seed shuckle with recover with more), but things not ingame is not supposed to be there.

Using glitches that´s in the game is something I could do, like the surf e4 glitch and things like that, it´s in the game, why not use it, and since it´s no way near gamebreaking theres no point in not using if I anyone wanted to do that.

I even would like to see the glitched japanese ditto unbanned, but since the glitch was removed I'm more than okay with it banned, even though it would be cool using it. But the other part of that glitch, mimicing transform for all pokemon with mimic being able to learn all attacks,I see that it's gamebreaking, like agilisheer cold no guard machamp with FS (still counterable) with more...

 

[Kijin]

If you're cheating in game or you and your friends or a bunch of people on IRC like to have made up Pokemon/moveset matches, that's your own business. I don't think anyone logically would be against that.

The only time this becomes an issue is when an non-consenting outside party becomes involved. This is pretty much a general rule for all things in this game and in life in general, once someone whose permission you don't have to do something gets involved, things get a lot more complex. I don't think anyone is arguing you can't have a Wonderguard Spiritomb, but don't bust that shit out when you're trying to win a tournament or battle someone over wifi who's looking to practice w/ their legit/hacked to be in-game possible team.

This thread is totally superfluous, though, as I don't think anyone logically can give a valid reason for you to not have some magical customized stuff on your game if it's not going to somehow effect someone else's game without their consent beforehand.

 

[RyouChan]

Well, some people still think that this is "wrong" and I was/am really wondering whether they only think that it is wrong in a certain context, like myself and you, or whether it's due to some moral system they have in place where doing things that were not intended to be done in the game seems wrong to them.

And Kijin, how is it REALLY harmful if I bust out a Wonderguard Spiritomb mid-tourney, get myself DQ'd, and give that person a free win? Stupid, yeah. But harmful? Not really. It would sort of just be a waste of my time unless the person was too dumb to realize that Spiritomb doesn't get Wonderguard, and if that is the case I would wager that they have no place in tournaments.

I see what you're saying, Smasher89. I used to own an AR for the GBA (Which broke. >_>) and it really stopped being fun after I'd tried out everything. It was like, okay. Now I've "beaten" everything and screwed around with pretty much everything I can. And I did put the games down for awhile. Actually, I put them down until I heard about Diamond/Pearl coming out, so it was quite a long time.

 

[Fishin]

I don't see anything wrong with it as long as you aren't trying to pull a fast one on anyone else with it.

That sums up my opinions. As long as you're not hacking a pokemon with an illegal moveset or such, or trading hacked pokemon and claiming they're legit, I don't have a problem with it.

 

[Kijin]

Well, some people still think that this is "wrong" and I was/am really wondering whether they only think that it is wrong in a certain context, like myself and you, or whether it's due to some moral system they have in place where doing things that were not intended to be done in the game seems wrong to them.

If there is someone who says you are not allowed to do things to your own game that you are not going to use to affect in any way (without prior consent) another person's game, ranging anywhere from hacking Deoxys with a 500 PP Professor Oak attack, to putting smiley face stickers on the card, to setting your game on fire with WD40 and a match, to using the card as a suppository during masturbation, they are retarded and should go back in time and abort themselves. This is the be all, end all of this discussion; if you are doing it to yourself or to consenting individuals, that's it, you have consent, no more questions, opinions, or bullshit required.

The reason this thread is superfluous is because that seriously is the end of discussion. Once someone says, "It's your game and the games of people who have given you permission to use illegal hacks on them, so it's not any 3rd party's place to jump in with Internet Police Badges and arrest you for a Statute 404: Illegal Lulz in an Online Vidya Gaem," there's no point in anyone saying anything else because anything anyone else has to add is either just ++ "LOL I AGARE" or stupid and incorrect.

And Kijin, how is it REALLY harmful if I bust out a Wonderguard Spiritomb mid-tourney, get myself DQ'd, and give that person a free win? Stupid, yeah. But harmful? Not really. It would sort of just be a waste of my time unless the person was too dumb to realize that Spiritomb doesn't get Wonderguard, and if that is the case I would wager that they have no place in tournaments.

We get into the discussion I was having last night about forging cards and playing in TCG tournaments. You're not allowed to do that unless it was some tournament of lulz where you could hack up whatever you wanted and play with it (or, for the sake of the analogy, drafting w/ a custom set or allowing proxies to be used in the tournament). If you're bringing these hacks into a normal tournament, getting past even the 1st round w/ hacked stuff in your team should be grounds for a DQ. That and most tourneys worth their salt would offer some kind of check before the start; that's the case with deck reporting at constructed TCG events, in any case.

 

[RyouChan]

Please get off of the TCG metaphor. I'm not looking to get conclusions on the nature of good and evil and how it relates to Pokemon. And your reply to the second part of my post was basically just saying what I just said. It ISN'T harmful, because you'd just get DQ'd. So there's really no point in that side of the argument.

What you're saying would be entirely correct if I was looking to draw a conclusion, but I'm not. Just looking for opinions. Who has a problem with it, who doesn't, who doesn't care. Any subjective issue has no real ending to get to, I'm just wondering what most people think.

So now I have your opinion, get the fuck off my thread.

 

[Kijin]

Please get off of the TCG metaphor.

I only brought it up because it's relevant to a discussion that was already had on these here forums.

I'm not looking to get conclusions on the nature of good and evil and how it relates to Pokemon.

I'm not either, if you read my post.

What you're saying would be entirely correct if I was looking to draw a conclusion, but I'm not. Just looking for opinions. Who has a problem with it, who doesn't, who doesn't care. Any subjective issue has no real ending to get to, I'm just wondering what most people think.

So now I have your opinion, get the fuck off my thread.

You don't really have my opinion; I'm stating facts of the matter. There is no more discussion to be had here, though, is my opinion, as people who are "against it" will provide a very stilted, fearful, and illogical argument for why you can't do what you want to your property and the property of those who give you permission to affect it in some originally unintended way. Why are you being so uppity about my agreeing with your original points?

 

[RyouChan]

Yes, Kijin. I realize that that opinion isn't really tenable in any debate, but regardless some people feel that way, and I'm looking to see about what portion of the people here do, though I suspect it is rather low. I don't mind hearing from you, you're very intelligent, you're very logical, but at least check your tone a bit.

 

[Kijin]

Yes, Kijin. I realize that that opinion isn't really tenable in any debate, but regardless some people feel that way, and I'm looking to see about what portion of the people here do, though I suspect it is rather low. I don't mind hearing from you, you're very intelligent, you're very logical, but at least check your tone a bit.

I'm just tired of people posting things without some solid reasoning to back up their statements; thread discussing movesets and EV spreads without testing get locked, posters rambling about how "hacking violates your personal relationship with you and your pokemon and nintendo and america" should have the same kind of pedigree enforced on them. In this instance, I don't think anyone would disagree with your opinion on the subject and I don't believe there is any sound argument anyone could make against your points aside from violating any warranty on your game (which is violated on 97% of the posters on the forums, in any case, as most use AR to clone or have at some point come in contact w/ an AR... there are also a number of other non-AR related things you can easily do to violate your warranty, but that's not the subject of this thread).

If someone can post here with a very well thought out explanation why your personal liberties should be limited for the sake of a children's video game, I would be very interested in reading it.

Edit: PS. plox to be unblocking me on aim

 

[Kazzak57]

I don't care if other people do it. Just as long as they keep these things away from W-fi battles and make sure they only use them for fun not for winning battles.

 

[Nickg07]

because hacking completely devalues everything that anyone has ever achieved in the game? whats the point of breeding, legendaries or good iv's if you just haxor the pokemon you want?

im not going to stop you, but why would i ever want to battle you, or any other hacker, knowing that you've totally cheated to get the pokemon you have to obtained.

in the same way i wouldnt want to play CS:S against people with wall hack? it gives an advantage to someone who clearly does not deserve that advantage.

Similarly, why should someone put in x hours effort to breed and then you come along and offer to trade and it turns out to be a haxed pokemon...

 

[Tangerine]

I asked someone to get me a flying Magcargo (Fly/False Swipe/Spore/Cut) to make breeding/moving around easier. Honestly it's just extremely convenient not having to go to a box to withdraw your flier each time around

Honestly I don't see the issue of hacking if it's for ingame "for fun" use, but when you start using these hacks against other people (trading/battling) without the other party knowing theres an issue i think

 

[Synre]

because hacking completely devalues everything that anyone has ever achieved in the game? whats the point of breeding, legendaries or good iv's if you just haxor the pokemon you want?

im not going to stop you, but why would i ever want to battle you, or any other hacker, knowing that you've totally cheated to get the pokemon you have to obtained.

in the same way i wouldnt want to play CS:S against people with wall hack? it gives an advantage to someone who clearly does not deserve that advantage.

Similarly, why should someone put in x hours effort to breed and then you come along and offer to trade and it turns out to be a haxed pokemon...

does anyone else have the feeling this guy didn't actually read the thread?

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I personally don't that sort of things but if it's not used againest someone without their permission then I don't see any problem with it.

 

[MajinNecro69]

"Hacking" (i.e. using AR) is fine, as long as you don't mess with the actual Pokemon you plan to compete with (i.e. giving it all 31 IVs). Using AR for the, ya know, quick egg hatching and rare candy cheats is fine, since it doesn't mess with the actual Pokemon, it just makes the extremely time consuming process a little easier. The effort is obviously still there, it's just done in a lot shorter time frame.

 

[Nickg07]

does anyone else have the feeling this guy didn't actually read the thread?

lol sorry guy, i replied at work and thus had to skim read. dont think it would go down too well, me getting caught on a Pokemon site, ive once pretended it was facebook..

i dont have a problem with like cloning, hacking items, or getting events.

i mean howtf am i meant to go back in time and make an event that only happened in the US? so i never get that pokemon? hmm:/:/ its not the way id *want* to do it but there is no other way, wheras you can get the IV's nature you want by breeding/not shortcutting and hacking..

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Using AR for the, ya know, quick egg hatching and rare candy cheats is fine, since it doesn't mess with the actual Pokemon, it just makes the extremely time consuming process a little easier. The effort is obviously still there, it's just done in a lot shorter time frame.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand the mechanics of breeding. Basically, there are a few efficient techniques, and after that it's about probability. The "law of big numbers" means that your results will be fairly predictable as you hatch a ludicrous number of eggs. Basically, this is the "formula" for how to breed a good Pokemon:

Understanding of mechanics + time -> good competitive Pokemon

Every player has to choose for himself how much time he'll invest and thus just how good the Pokemon he gets is. The only determining factor in the long term is time; there is no "effort". So, if you hack to "save time", you're doing the most fundamental kind of cheating. It's pretty much just a less efficient way of hacking whatever your target IVs are directly. You're still completely circumventing the process and giving yourself a massively unfair advantage compared to those who don't hack to "save time". Is it a stupid system? Yes. Is it the way the game was made? Also yes. If you don't like the "time equals profit" system, I suggest playing on a simulator like Shoddy Battle.

As per the actual topic of this thread (when you're all agreeing to "cheat"), of course no one has anything against it, but it's not a very interesting topic unless you all agree to cheat within certain bounds. I could use six 999 in all stats Wondertombs with Toxic/Rest and so could you, but that would be a really boring game...

 

[Kijin]

RLan69 and Nickg07, have either of you actually read what the thread you're posting in is about? Because no one here is talking about setting up 31 ivs on guys or hacking events.
We're talking about Flying Lapras, Wonderguard Spiritomb, and Rock Head Weavile with Head Smash. The thread you guys are looking for has been closed 6 times prior.

As per the actual topic of this thread (when you're all agreeing to "cheat"), of course no one has anything against it, but it's not a very interesting topic unless you all agree to cheat within certain bounds. I could use six 999 in all stats Wondertombs with Toxic/Rest and so could you, but that would be a really boring game...

I very much agree that games like that would probably suck hardcore. I would imagine that if you're going out to battle with "Lego" Pokemon (which is what I'm going to refer to these made-up style Pokemon as from here on in), that you're not in it so much for the "omg chek how 1337 my unstopable h4x r" and more for the "What ungodly monstrosity can my mind come up with that will make battling more super special awesome." At least I imagine that this kind of utopic battling vision exists in the minds of people looking to make up crazy move/stat sets and that it's not just a circle jerk of WG Spiritomb, WG Sableye, WG Metagross, No Guard Sheer Cold Deoxys-S, and 999-Magikarp with two other guys thrown in for seasoning.