Grey's Rainy Return

[PkmonTrainer Grey]

Hey Guys, PkmonTrainer Grey is back after I have no idea how long I was gone. Anyways, I'm here with a Random Rain Team I created that has given me pretty good success for a while, and I've seen some weaknesses that happen during Battle, such as too many Water Types. So I want some help here to help make this team better, I'll consider and test the changes to see how they work out, and if it works out perfectly, I'll change my thread to the current Team after the changes.
#P.S: It feels great to be back lol, I think I missed out on a lot of stuff while I was gone. :3

Drip Drops! (Politoed) @ Leftovers
Trait: Drizzle
EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Def
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Perish song
- Protect
This Toad never seems to fail me against Baton Passing teams and Pkmon that would just love to use it as a set up fodder. Drizzle is the main purpose Politoed is here.
Scald and Ice Beam are used for decent coverage. Scald allows Politoed to inflict a STAB Rain Boosted attack while having a 30% Chance to Burn the opponent, in which case helps Politoed very much being that it isn't all that Physically Defensive (Hence why I carry 176 Def EV's on Toed to help it tank more Physical Attacks after Scald Burn).
Ice Beam is meant to damage some Dragons on a switch in, or even take a shot from Torn-T and retaliate with Ice Beam to its face. Basically used for decent coverage.
Perish Song is used vs Baton Passers and Pkmon that like setting up (E.g: Dragonite). I have fallen prey to Perish Song once before when I used Baton Pass, now I use it myself to screw over many teams. In a way, Politoed is my most valuable member being I gain Rain Benefits, and Perishing other pkmon. Protect is just there to help with any Toxic Stalling and Perish Stalling, also to help scout some moves in-case some Pkmon I face are Choiced.

Chaos (Ferrothorn) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Leech Seed
- Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock
- Power Whip
Ferrothorn here is meant not only for Stealth Rocks, but also to hit opposing pkmon with Leech Seed to recover lost HP much quicker, especially if it’s vs a Blissey or Chansey. I’ll eventually hit a Thunder Wave on an incoming threat I know would be very fast and could potentially sweep my team if it’s scarfed. Power Whip is the choice of STAB, being Ferrothorn has a very usable Atk Stat. If anything, it can also be used to stall out some other pkmon and sponge some atk’s if necessary.

(Ignore the other 2 Therians)
CawCaw! (Tornadus-T) @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Speed / 200 Sp.Atk / 56 Atk
Hasty Nature (+Speed, -Def)
- Hurricane
- SuperPower
- Heat Wave/Hidden Power Groud
- U-Turn
You ask “WHY a mixed Torn-T? Pretty much my favorite pkmon on this whole team, with Max Speed Investment, Torn-T can easily outspeed many threats such as Alakazam, and Starmie, pkmon with a Base Speed of 120 and even if it’s maxed out, will not outspeed Torn-T without a Scarf.
Hurricane is the main STAB choice due to Perfect Accuracy in rain, and 120 base power (180 after STAB), with a 30% Chance to confuse my opponent, seems very useful to Torn-T.
SuperPower is a must for me to run on Torn-T, I’m 90% sure that a Focus Blast with Life Orb Timid with Max Speed and 252 Sp.Atk EV’s will not OHKO a T-Tar in which SuperPower 95% of the time does OHKO it. It can also be used on Incoming Blissey that attempt to wall Torn-T’s special arsenal.
Heat Wave is very uncommon for a Rain Team to even have, let alone use, but I usually don’t start with Toed if I see a Forry, or even Genesect and Ferro. Heat Wave Guarantees an OHKO vs those pkmon easily, and can cause players to rage quit after seeing that. Of course, if I decide to NOT carry Heat Wave, I thought of using Hidden Power Ground and it works very well for it. Heatran Overall is Torn-T’s main check even with SuperPower equipped to it. With Hidden Power Ground, Heatran’s will often never see this coming, and be OHKO’d barring they have a Balloon, in which case I U-Turn, deal damage, and send out Toed to scare it away. With its Regenerator ability, Torn-T is amazingly one of the best offensive Regenerator users IF not the only offensive Regenerator user in the OU Tier.

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Def / 96 Sp.Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -Sp.Atk)
- Toxic
- Substitute
- Protect
- Earthquake
Ahhh my favorite little cruel bat. It never seems to fail me in stalling out or even inflicting Toxic at least 2 pkmon, at most the entire team.
Toxic is used to obviously start the stalling rampage in which Gliscor is meant to do.
Substitute and Protect are the standard Toxic Stalling moves to run on it, to recover it’s lost HP from taking hits and setting up Subs, while Protecting to whittle down the opposing pkmon slowly but steadily.
Often I play the most cruel way possible: predict the opponent breaking my Sub, and use Substitute again, which brings the opponent back to square one. Start the Protect and Sub rejuvenation all over again, and stall the living hell out of my Opponent. I used this same set in Ubers, and actually stalled out a Swords Dance Extreme-Killer Arceus with Life Orb which I think, is pretty much pro enough to do, predictions help me whittle down Arceus to oblivion in Ubers. In OU, Gliscor can still do the same, and much more.
Earthquake is the Main Choice of STAB, if I do come out to face a Scarf Rachi while I’m behind a Sub, I know it’s gg for that Rachi. If I face a Sub CM or Specially Defensive Rachi, Gliscor knows ALMOST no Rachi fear.
The only Main Checks I can see against Gliscor are Perish Toed, Rotom Tricking Scarf to it, and Genesect Scarfed or even Life Orb Genesect. Overall, Gliscor is an amazing Stall Core to have within this team.

Death-Star (Starmie) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed / 4 Sp.Def
Timid Nature (+Speed, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunder
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin/Psyshock
Pretty much what I can call in battles, a Troll. You never, EVER want to mess with Starmie in the rain, Max HP Max Def Reun won’t live a single STAB Hydro Pump in the Rain + Specs. It can OHKO a Specially Defensive Rachi 85% of the time with its Immense Raw Power. Timid to Maximize its Speed and 252 Sp.Atk EV’s give it maximum potential to actually cause a Starmie Sweep, which honestly, is kind of embarassing.
Thunder in Rain has Perfect Accuracy, on top of that, thanks to Rain, it now has a 30% Chance to Paralyze my opponent. That’s an Added Bonus to Thunder there, it’s mainly used to cripple a lot of pkmon that can actually resist Hydro and Ice Beam (E.g: Jellicent).
Ice Beam gives Starmie the classic Bolt-Beam combination, which can obviously be used against Dragons, even Multiscale Dragonite would take a Heavy Shot from Ice Beam Spec’d.
Rapid Spin is there in case I can predict an obvious switch in to any of my other 3 moves, or as a last resort to take out Rocks and Spikes as a Death Fodder when Starmie is beyond help. Starmie is just the Raw Power in my Team, hits Harder than my Torn-T, which says a lot honestly, though Specs can be a letdown sometimes, if I can the opponent to trick off my Specs, then that just makes Starmie a little less powerful, but still capable of Sweeping if given the right moment. The only checks I see for Starmie would have to be Torn-T, Thun-T (if it comes on an Incoming Thunder Strike), Scarf Genesect, and possibly Alakazam with Life Orb or Specs.

Keldeo-Resolution @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 252 Sp.Atk / 252 Speed / 4 Sp.Def
Modest Nature (+Sp.Atk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Surf
- Hidden Power Rock
The obvious pkmon I actually tried to base my team around. Keldeo-R with max Sp.Atk has a pretty nice stat of 392. Mix that with a Choice Scarf, and Keldeo-R is ready to outspeed Scarf Genesects that try to obliterate it with a Thunder/Thunderbolt.
Hydro Pump and Surf are both there for good reasons, in case I don’t wanna rely on that 85% Accuracy of Hydro Pump, Surf helps even out the pressure, and still has 95 base power, while still boosted in the rain.
Secret Sword is a MUST to take out T-Tars, blisseys, and other pkmon that don’t appreciate a Secret Sword to the face.
Lastly, as many people opt for Hidden Power Electric on Keldeo-R since Gyarados is a check to Keldeo/Keledo-R, I like to carry Hidden Power rock to surprise a couple of other Pkmon that would not appreciate a Hidden Power Rock to the face, one being Volcarona, and even Dragonites, Salamences, would kind of hate to take that to the face also, being Dragonite can’t outspeed even after a +1 Dragon Dance, and if I’m at a reasonable amount of HP, not even ExtremeSpeed would KO me. Keldeo-R is honestly a really cool pkmon, even though its Move Pool isn’t too diverse, it can still be a major threat with Scarf, Cm + 3 Atks, or Sub CM. Overall, I prefer the raw power and speed of Scarf Keldeo-R.

 

[ganj4lF]

Hi. Your team seems solid, but there are some problems with your EV spreads.

First of all, Ferrothorn. Your EV spread is inefficient - investing so much HP in Defense is not a good idea if you're removing them from HP; a spread of 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SpD has the same physical bulk, while having MUCH better special bulk. This is a no-brainer, really, just max the HP stat and balance the two defenses as you feel it's better for your team. Also the Gliscor EV spread is inefficient, since again, not maxing HP is really a bad idea (and using Gliscor to take Special attacks is not a great thing, too). Gliscor also wants Speed EVs, at least 72 to outspeed Adamant Breloom and 252+ Tyranitar. A more standard spread of 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe will be nice.

Second, you claim that your Keldeo outspeeds Scarf Genesect, which is false since you're using a Modest Nature. Naive / Hasty Genesect, the most common nature on Scarf sets, can easily outspeed and do some serious damage with Giga Drain / Thunderbolt, or just U-Turn to a resistance. I suggest changing Keldeo to a Timid nature, acquiring the ability to speed tie with Jolly Scarf Terrakion and everything else under that. Also, HP Rock seems underwhelming to me, Offensive Volcarona is not really an issue since you resist everything it can throw at you (except the odd Psychic / Giga Drain), and Surf 2HKOs even at +1 SpD. HP Electric would give you a much better coverage, destroying Gyarados and dealing at least something to Jellicent / Tentacruel, although in my opinion HP Ice / Icy Wind is much more useful, since you can revenge dragons, while you can't really think to bring down a Tentacruel / Jellicent with HP Electric. The only threat left for HP Electric is Gyarados, which can be easily dealt with (Perish Song from Toed).

Third, don't use Hasty on Tornadus-T. Use Naive, it gives it much better chance to survive a LO Ice Shard from Mamoswine if Stealth Rock is not on the field. Not that you want to take that with Tornadus, but since there's no drawback in doing so (what special attacks are you going to take with it anyway?) it's a great choice in my opinion.

Also, you must be VERY careful with Sun teams: if you lose the weather war, you're done since Timid Venusaur 6-0s you without any problem in Sun. I'll post again if I can think some solution for this problem, I'd want to give you this feedback on EVs as soon as possible.

 

[Reymedy]

Maybe by trying to put a Rain version of Volcarona, a bulky one with things like Hurricane / Bug Buzz / Roost / Quiver Dance. Or Substitute on Roost. With Leftovers or Lum berry, this would deal with Venausaur and be a major threat to any Sun Team. I don't know where to put this Volcarona though, since I don't feel like breaking your team, you're probably a better player than I am.
Hope it helped and wasn't totally off topic.

 

[ganj4lF]

Maybe by trying to put a Rain version of Volcarona, a bulky one with things like Hurricane / Bug Buzz / Roost / Quiver Dance. Or Substitute on Roost. With Leftovers or Lum berry, this would deal with Venausaur and be a major threat to any Sun Team. I don't know where to put this Volcarona though, since I don't feel like breaking your team, you're probably a better player than I am.
Hope it helped and wasn't totally off topic.

If you want to check Venusaur decently with Bulky Volcarona, you're better to run some Fire move of sort. Venusaur is not that threatening outside Sun (Tornadus-T says hi and OHKOs), while in Sun, Hurricane is worthless and Bug Buzz is not even a guaranteed 2HKO after SR. Fiery Dance is enough to OHKO in sun, so if you want to run a bulky set, include that. However, running a Volcarona in a team without spin support is not a great idea, since it will be worn down incredibly easy, and at 50% it cannot check Venusaur anymore.

 

[Reymedy]

If you want to check Venusaur decently with Bulky Volcarona, you're better to run some Fire move of sort. Venusaur is not that threatening outside Sun (Tornadus-T says hi and OHKOs), while in Sun, Hurricane is worthless and Bug Buzz is not even a guaranteed 2HKO after SR. Fiery Dance is enough to OHKO in sun, so if you want to run a bulky set, include that. However, running a Volcarona in a team without spin support is not a great idea, since it will be worn down incredibly easy, and at 50% it cannot check Venusaur anymore.

I'm well aware of this SR weakness, that's why I thought of Volcarona when I saw Starmie already here.
About the set I was more thinking about setting-up Quiver on Venusaur, so the lack of damage of Bug Buzz wouldn't be an issue. Maybe I'm underestimating the scaling power of a Growth Venusaur.
By having a set including both Psyshock and Rapid Spin, it should be possible to remove hazards and threaten Venusaur on the switch.

Again, maybe I'm forgetting alot of crucial things, I did not even think about the accuracy decreasing on Hurricane to say the truth...

 

[ganj4lF]

Yeah you're right on Stealth Rock. My fault on that. However, let's assume for a moment that the scenario I described happens: you lose the weather war and Venusaur is on the field (quite easy, it can freely switch into Keldeo, and also on Gliscor somewhat). It Growths as you switch to Volcarona (if you stay in you risk taking a LO Giga Drain which can OHKO Keldeo easily, and recover lost health if Gliscor tries to EQ). Now, 252/0 Volcarona takes 81.81 - 96.25% from Timid +2 LO Sludge Bomb, thus it will die if it took any prior damage. If you can't OHKO back, you will die on the next turn whatever you do, since Venusaur outspeeds even at +1. So running Volcarona without a Fire move is not really a great idea to check Venusaur.

 

[Jorgen]

Third, don't use Hasty on Tornadus-T. Use Naive, it gives it much better chance to survive a LO Ice Shard from Mamoswine if Stealth Rock is not on the field. Not that you want to take that with Tornadus, but since there's no drawback in doing so (what special attacks are you going to take with it anyway?) it's a great choice in my opinion.

But you do lose something with Hasty. Hasty guarantees that you survive the Hurricane in a matchup against another +Speed LO Tornadus (assuming no Rocks, of course). Naive means you're OHKOed roughly 50% of the time. Furthermore, Naive gives Genesect the +1 boost to SpA which means its Ice Beam OHKOes, whereas without the boost it doesn't. Of course you could always reduce your Defense IVs with Naive to avoid this problem, but Hasty's helpfulness in the Torny-T ditto is more than worth the extra damage from Mamo's Ice Shard imo.

 

[Reymedy]

Yeah you're right on Stealth Rock. My fault on that. However, let's assume for a moment that the scenario I described happens: you lose the weather war and Venusaur is on the field (quite easy, it can freely switch into Keldeo, and also on Gliscor somewhat). It Growths as you switch to Volcarona (if you stay in you risk taking a LO Giga Drain which can OHKO Keldeo easily, and recover lost health if Gliscor tries to EQ). Now, 252/0 Volcarona takes 81.81 - 96.25% from Timid +2 LO Sludge Bomb, thus it will die if it took any prior damage. If you can't OHKO back, you will die on the next turn whatever you do, since Venusaur outspeeds even at +1. So running Volcarona without a Fire move is not really a great idea to check Venusaur.

I guess this is a Giga Drain/ HP Fire / Sludge Bomb / Growth variant.. well yes, I did not consider it, damn.
Then I bet only a Heatran can deal with it. Or scarfing your genie (to get the job done under the sun with Heat Wave), scarfing Starmie and giving him Trick (it could work since yours seems offensive) to score an easy OHKO with psyshock, or getting in the team another possible scarfer with 110 or more base speed.. :( ?

 

[PkmonTrainer Grey]

Hey guys thanks for the rate and complimenting the solid build, did I forget to mention I madebthis team in like 5-10 min :3
By the way ganj4lF, I use Hasty for the reasonthat Genesect will NOT OHKO my Torn-T, as well as have some Special Bulk because it naturally has better So.Def, and I just switch out from Mamoswine and bring in Ferro to tank a hit and retaliate with it. I'll take the Naive into consideration however.
As for Gliscor, believe it or not, having Sp.Def investment has saved its life countless times, I don't like to outspeed brelooms because they normally cannot touch Gliscor, though I understand why to outspeed T-Tar, I've incorporated the suggested EV's to ferro and gliscor. As well changed the nature of Keldeo to Timid, though I will miss that extra raw power I love to keep.
Just one question, what would be a solid addition to check a Sun Team/Venasaur?
EDIT: Also Remedy, I have though about Trick on Starmie, but I lose Rapid Spin, I'd like to find room for Psyshock, and above all that, my Starmie is Spec'd, so it has immense as power to OHKO something on the spot 85% of the time.

 

[Reymedy]

Let's say you give Starmie HydroPump/Psychock/ThunderBolt/Trick and a Scarf :
- You'd, like Keldeo, 0HKO Genesect and outspeed him with HPump under rain (Surf is something like 1/2 chance to 0HkO but with SR up it's a sure KO).
- You'd lose the Rapid Spin, but win with Trick a great asset against Stall Teams.
- You'd lose you IceBeam coverage, but I think that you can put Icy Wind on one of Keldeo's Water moves, this would help enough against Dragons. Moreover Politoed has already an IceAtack.
- You'd lighter the job of Keldeo, and maybe switch his Scarf for something else, maybe Specs or a CM build, I don't know.
- You'd be able to force Venusaur out, or score an easy kill if your ennemy doesn't expect Starmie to be Scarfed (which should be the case most of the time).

You could also go for HydroPump/Psyshock/RapidSpin/Trick (or just get rid of Trick), but I don't see why your team would need to spin away rocks, the only Pokemon weak to them got Regenerator.
I hope it helped .

 

[ganj4lF]

Hmm Jorgen your points are valid, so I guess Hasty is not a bad choice after all. Good catch, I always used Naive without thinking too much about it.

Remedy, I thought about suggesting Scarf Starmie and Specs Keldeo yesterday, however it would only solve the problem for Modest Venusaur. Timid still outspeeds and OHKOs, and only Modest is indeed handled well (at the cost of reduced coverage, tho). The classic check for Venusaur (Heatran) doesn't work in rain at all, so I guess it's not an alternative. Other Fire pokes, that resist Fire / Grass coverage, aren't really viable in Rain, with maybe the exception of Rotom-H (which is seeing much more appreciation these days): it could check Genesect and KO Venusaur after taking a +2 Sludge Bomb if hazards are off the field; however it's kinda shaky since SR will assure a KO. If you feel confident that you can keep hazards off the field with Starmie, you could try to fit him into your team. Another idea could be CB Scizor, that benefits naturally from Rain and is capable to deal 72% minimum with Bullet Punch to Venusaur. You'll need some prior damage, but it's a decent check as well. Mamoswine can do the same with Ice Shard, and it doesn't bring you an additional Fire weakness. You could try Mamoswine/Scizor>Gliscor, if you want a more offensive approach, or try to fit Rotom somewhere, although a Fire poke in rain has its disadvantages.

Sets

Mamoswine @ Life Orb | Thick Fat
Jolly | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash / Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Stone Edge / Superpower

Scizor @ Choice Band | Technician
Adamant | 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
- U-Turn
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

Rotom-H @ Leftovers | Levitate
Calm | 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
- Overheat / Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp / Thunder Wave
- Pain Split

 

[PkmonTrainer Grey]

Hmmm, to take out Gliscor, I have seen that Gliscor is a very huge asset to my team even to this point of time. Though I can try to take out Gliscor and see how they work with Mamo/Scizor, if I were to find room for Rotom-H, it'd even harder, being that my entire team doesn't necessarily need Rotom-H to tank some hit.
Though I've some calcs in my head just for safety measures, Mamo takes half damage from Fire Types in the Rain, on top of that with Thick Fat halfs the damage further from Fire Atks and Ice Atks, so Mamo would basically be taking 1/4 Damage from Fire Type Atks. Am I correct?
I will surely test these things out, as I seriously HATE Sun Teams and more importantly, Venasaur! If things work out for me within this team, Mamo could very well be the best Candidate for my Rain team over Gliscor, though I'd hate to give up something so useful. If it means that Sun teams go down against me, and that I'd have to start my Offensive approaches again, so be it.

 

[ganj4lF]

Though I've some calcs in my head just for safety measures, Mamo takes half damage from Fire Types in the Rain, on top of that with Thick Fat halfs the damage further from Fire Atks and Ice Atks, so Mamo would basically be taking 1/4 Damage from Fire Type Atks. Am I correct?

You're forgetting that Mamoswine is Ice-type, thus it's weak to Fire. This means that, in clear skies, he's taking 200% (super effective) * 50% (Thick Fat) = 100% damage from Fire moves. In rain that's further halved to 50% damage.

 

[PkmonTrainer Grey]

You're forgetting that Mamoswine is Ice-type, thus it's weak to Fire. This means that, in clear skies, he's taking 200% (super effective) * 50% (Thick Fat) = 100% damage from Fire moves. In rain that's further halved to 50% damage.

Ahhhh verybtrue, I forgot about that in my calcs, thank you, but still that's pretty good damage output towards Mamo, means it can tank some hits. I will look foward to testing Mamo in the near future (when I'm back from school)

 

[bkt0731]

Try Rain Abuse Dnite set over Tor-T.

Thunder/Hurricane/Dragon Tail/Roost +252Hp/252 Spd or whatever EV of your choice. I use that because I always use CM baton pass from Espeon.

This can eat up damage with multiscale and kill with 100 acc thunder/hurricane. and Dtail prevents Roar/Whirlwind cuz 80 base speed with 252 investment is sure to be faster than usual hazers.

 

[PkmonTrainer Grey]

Try Rain Abuse Dnite set over Tor-T.

Thunder/Hurricane/Dragon Tail/Roost +252Hp/252 Spd or whatever EV of your choice. I use that because I always use CM baton pass from Espeon.

This can eat up damage with multiscale and kill with 100 acc thunder/hurricane. and Dtail prevents Roar/Whirlwind cuz 80 base speed with 252 investment is sure to be faster than usual hazers.

Seems like a good idea, I'll test it out and see how things go with that change. I've always tried to keep a 1 Legendary handicap for myself being I'm part of an Online League that allows only 1 Legend per Battle.