BH Groudon

[SuperSkylake]

[OVERVIEW]
Primal Groudon is a powerful bulky attacker when equipped with Red Orb, which leaves it with only a Ground-type weakness and a STAB V-create that can OHKO even relatively bulky targets that take neutral damage, such as Mega Audino, Xerneas, and Mega Mewtwo X. It is also offensively versatile, with a wide choice of viable coverage moves such as Fleur Cannon and Bolt Strike that enable it to lure in and weaken otherwise reliable checks such as Giratina and Celesteela, respectively. Its base 180 Attack and base 150 Special Attack are excellent for mixed attacking sets as well, and Desolate Land's Water immunity gives Primal Groudon more opportunities to switch in. Excellent bulk and typing also let it tank hits from powerful attackers, such as Primal Kyogre, Mega Diancie, and Regigigas, and OHKO them back. However, it is initially quite slow, so it struggles against faster Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo Y and Kyurem-W that target its weaker special bulk. It also is normally checked by some ubiquitous defensive Pokemon such as Zygarde-C and Giratina, but though it bypass them with the appropriate coverage moves on mixed sets or force them to switch in and give momentum to the Primal Groudon user. Lastly, it is fairly one-dimensional, as its item and ability are restricted to Red Orb and Desolate Land, though it still carries staggering power despite these limitations.


[SET]
name: Defensive
move 1: V-create
move 2: Shore Up
move 3: Stealth Rock / Bolt Strike
move 4: Anchor Shot / Will-O-Wisp
item: Red Orb
ability: Intimidate / Electric Surge / Download
nature: Impish / Careful
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
V-create deals fatal damage to targets that do not resist it such as Dialga, Mega Audino, and Xerneas, letting Primal Groudon check these threats. Shore Up keeps Primal Groudon's HP high, letting it continually check threatening Pokemon such as Regigigas and Mega Diancie. It has double the PP of Morning Sun, making it preferable for longer games. Stealth Rock is also viable, as Primal Groudon forces many switches, and the move gives it something to do as Prankster Dragon-types such as Giratina and Zygarde-C switch in. Alternatively, Bolt Strike deals heavy damage to Mega Slowbro, Celesteela, Ho-Oh, and other Fire-immune Steel-types like Celesteela. When boosted by Electric Terrain, Bolt Strike is a 2HKO against Mega Slowbro. Anchor Shot traps some defensive switch-ins, such as Primordial Sea Celesteela, Mega Slowbro, and Ho-Oh, preventing them from escaping the followup move. It also threatens to trap Imposter users that are not running Shed Shell, preventing them from safely switching into or staying in against Primal Groudon. Will-O-Wisp deals useful chip damage to common switch-ins such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Mega Slowbro and KOes Sturdy Shedinja. Thousand Arrows may be run instead of Bolt Strike as another strong STAB move that can invalidate Ho-Oh and Celesteela as checks. Primal Groudon can set other entry hazards such as Spikes if your team already has a Stealth Rock setter, but this mandates a Magic Bounce teammate to prevent Imposters from doing the same.

Set Details
========
Intimidate can soften physical blows the first time Primal Groudon comes in, allowing it to be a better check to some physical attackers that might otherwise deal fatal damage to it, such as opposing Primal Groudon. Electric Surge powers up Bolt Strike and prevents Primal Groudon from being put to sleep. Lastly, Download is useful if Primal Groudon gets an Attack raise, but this boost is often removed or stolen by its counters via Haze or Spectral Thief. Red Orb gives Primal Groudon a far more useful defensive typing, higher physical bulk, and greater power behind its attacks. An Impish nature is preferred to bolster Primal Groudon's Defense so it can better take boosted and super effective hits, notably guaranteeing that it survives Regigigas's +1 Facade after Stealth Rock damage and giving it a good chance to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Diancie's Precipice Blades. A Careful nature allows Primal Groudon to handle Mega Diancie's Boomburst better but results in Primal Groudon being 2HKOed by Precipice Blades on the switch.

Usage Tips
========
This Primal Groudon set usually plays as a defensive pivot by forcing switches that its teammates can capitalize on. Early-game, Anchor Shot is a risk-free move to click, as the only common Pokemon that can safely avoid being trapped are Zygarde-C, Giratina, Shed Shell Imposter users, and Flash Fire Aegislash. Giratina is a fairly passive Pokemon and Aegislash cannot risk taking a possible Ground-type attack, but Primal Groudon should scout Imposter users for a possible Shed Shell, which can cause them to deplete Primal Groudon's PP if they successfully trap Primal Groudon. Most other switch-ins can easily be trapped and then removed the next turn with Bolt Strike or have Stealth Rock set up on them as they pivot out. If running Stealth Rock, it is important to scout for Magic Bounce Pokemon by using Will-O-Wisp if Primal Groudon has it or by analyzing how your opponent responds to Primal Groudon. Most teams are forced to switch the same Pokemon into Primal Groudon as it comes in, making your opponent more predictable. You can use this tendency to dictate your opponent's plays, maintain momentum, and wear their team down with entry hazard damage and double switches. Be mindful of the low PP of V-create and Bolt Strike, as after either move is used up, Primal Groudon becomes far easier to switch into for the opponent. If you need Primal Groudon to check a threatening Pokemon such as Mega Diancie, Mega Beedrill, or a Poison Heal user like Regigigas or Xerneas, play more carefully with it and ensure that its HP stays high enough to take them on.

Team Options
========
This set fits on many balance teams thanks to its ability to force predictable switches. Powerful special or mixed wallbreakers, such as Choice Specs Mega Diancie, Ash-Greninja, and Pixilate Mega Mewtwo X can threaten Primal Groudon's common checks such as Shedinja, Zygarde-C, Flash Fire Steel-types, Mega Garchomp, and Giratina, and they appreciate Primal Groudon trapping and KOing their standard defensive answers such as Soundproof Mega Slowbro and Celesteela. Primal Groudon can Imposter-proof Mega Diancie and Ash-Greninja if they do not carry a Ground-type attack, as well as Pixilate Mega Mewtwo X. Setup checks such as Prankster Zygarde-C, Prankster + Haze Registeel, and Choice Scarf Imposter users can give the team a safety net against unexpected setup Pokemon, allowing Primal Groudon to play more defensively against setup-heavy teams. RegenVest Pokemon such as Dialga and Primal Kyogre check special attackers and pivot Primal Groudon in safely with U-turn. Poison Heal users such as Xerneas, Mega Tyranitar, and Regigigas provide an additional layer of protection against status, can remove items such as Shed Shell and Leftovers with Knock Off, and spread their own status to help Primal Groudon, while Primal Groudon can check powerful wallbreakers that might force them out. If Primal Groudon is running Stealth Rock, a Magic Bounce teammate that resists V-create such as Zygarde-C or Giratina can prevent Imposters from setting up Stealth Rock against your team.

[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: V-create
move 3: Thousand Arrows / Power Trip / Precipice Blades
move 4: Fleur Cannon / Ice Beam
item: Red Orb
ability: Download
nature: Naughty
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Shell Smash sets Primal Groudon up to sweep the opposing team and outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. V-create deals enormous damage to targets neutral to it such as Mega Audino and Arceus, and, at +2, it can even land OHKOs on targets that resist it such as Primal Kyogre and Mega Gyarados. However, the Speed- and Defense-lowering effects leave Primal Groudon slightly more vulnerable to revenge killing from Choice Scarf and priority users. Thousand Arrows allows Primal Groudon to hit Flying-types with its STAB Ground-type move and has respectable power at +2. Alternatively, Precipice Blades has a noticeably higher damage output against bulky neutral targets such as Flash Fire Ferrothorn but cannot hit Flying-types, which may allow a daring opponent to more easily pivot around Primal Groudon with immunities. +2 Precipice Blades also is a guaranteed OHKO against both Mega Mewtwo formes, sparing Primal Groudon from having to use V-create on them. Power Trip is another option that hits Mega Slowbro, Giratina, Ho-Oh, Flash Fire Celesteela, and Flash Fire Ferrothorn hard. Fleur Cannon is the best move to complement Fire-type coverage, severely damaging physically defensive Pokemon that can take Thousand Arrows and V-create such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Mega Slowbro. +2 Fleur Cannon has a chance to OHKO non-Assault Vest Giratina after Stealth Rock damage. Ice Beam is viable alongside Power Trip, as it hits Dragon- and Ground-types super effectively, notably OHKOing Zygarde-C at +2 regardless of its set. However, Primal Groudon loses the ability to OHKO Giratina. Core Enforcer can allow Primal Groudon to stay in against Prankster + Haze Dragon-types such as Zygarde-C, though Primal Groudon will take severe damage from the opponent's Core Enforcer if it sets up a second time, and its ability will be suppressed, degrading V-create's power. Bonemerang is another niche option that allows Primal Groudon to break through Focus Sash and Substitute users, but it is only marginally more powerful than Thousand Arrows and has lower accuracy.

Set Details
========
It is best to use a Naughty nature so that Primal Groudon's offenses are not degraded. Most priority moves are physical, and Primal Groudon can tank a few of them if it's healthy. Primal Groudon is still able to outspeed base 140 Speed Pokemon, such as Mega Mewtwo Y, after Shell Smash followed by a Speed drop from V-create. Even with a Naughty nature, Primal Groudon is still able to survive special priority moves from full HP. Red Orb is mandatory for Primal Reversion, which increases Primal Groudon's Attack, Defense, and subpar Special Attack. Download gives Primal Groudon a boost to one of its offensive stats, which synergizes well with Shell Smash. +3 Special Attack is enough to OHKO all variants of Giratina with Fleur Cannon except Assault Vest ones, which can still be KOed after Stealth Rock damage. +3 Attack allows Primal Groudon to OHKO non-Fur Coat Giratina with Precipice Blades.

Usage Tips
========
This set operates mainly as a late-game sweeper, but against teams without reliable checks to it, it can be used as a wallbreaker or an emergency check to a physical attacker. It is a good idea to keep Primal Groudon healthy enough to take priority moves such as Fake Out + Extreme Speed from Kyurem-B. Scout for status moves such as Mega Steelix's Glare and Assault Vest users' Poison Fang so that Primal Groudon does not recklessly switch into them and get crippled. Slow pivots are great for scouting for such moves and can get Primal Groudon in safely throughout the game, and Primal Groudon's threatening presence and low list of switch-ins help to maintain momentum. Utilize entry hazard damage and make offensive double switches to wear down Primal Groudon's checks, such as Giratina and Zygarde-C. Several other sorts of checks must be dealt with as well. Prankster users can remove Primal Groudon's boosts, shut it down with Encore, or force an unfavorable trade with Destiny Bond. Focus Sash users with Spectral Thief such as Mega Mewtwo X can stop Primal Groudon's sweep as well and must be worn down before Primal Groudon can sweep.

Once Primal Groudon's checks have been dealt with, pivot Primal Groudon in against something that it forces out, such as a Steel-type, for a free setup turn. Be very wary of Imposter users, because they can easily countersweep or, at best, force a two-for-one trade with your Prankster Destiny Bond user. Try not to reveal Primal Groudon's set to Imposter users before it is ready to set up, as your opponent will then be unsure of what they must preserve to check it. If you have a teammate to Imposter-proof this set, keep it alive to protect yourself from being counterswept by Imposters. Be careful of faster attackers such as priority and Choice Scarf users, which can accumulate significant chip damage on Primal Groudon after its defenses have been lowered with Shell Smash or or V-create. Do not be afraid to switch Primal Groudon out after it sets up and KOes a Pokemon to save it for later, as its bulk, especially physically, is surprisingly good and might allow it to set up again.

Team Options
========
This Primal Groudon set functions as a late-game sweeper and cleaner for both offensive and balance teams, as it can easily gain a free turn to set up. Wallbreakers are key to setting the stage for its sweep. Examples include Mega Garchomp and Choice Band Mega Mewtwo X. These Pokemon can chip Primal Groudon's standard checks such as Giratina and Zygarde-C into KO range of Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam, force trades with Prankster users, defeat Sturdy Shedinja with Moongeist Beam or Photon Geyser, and wear down Imposter users that switch in to scout their sets. Imposter-proofing this set depends entirely on the coverage. For example, Shedinja can Imposter-proof all variants and keep up pressure by using U-turn on the Imposter's forced switch. Primordial Sea Celesteela can handle variants with Precipice Blades. Hyper offensive teams may not want to lose momentum switching into an Imposter-proofer, so a Focus Sash user such as Magic Guard Mega Diancie can use Spectral Thief to steal the boosts from an Imposter that copies Primal Groudon and continue sweeping with them. Offensive entry hazard setters like Stealth Rock Mega Diancie, Mold Breaker Spikes Mega Gengar, Spikes Kartana, and Spikes Xerneas can help weaken walls and break Focus Sashes with their hazards. Kartana and Mold Breaker Gengar with Pursuit can threaten Shedinja, one of the most reliable checks to this set. Flash Fire Steel-types like Registeel can switch into -ate users and threaten to trap Imposters that switch into them, both of which are otherwise threatening to Primal Groudon. Another setup sweeper such as Shell Smash Mega Tyranitar, Shell Smash Mega Gengar, or Belly Drum Necrozma-DM can finish sweeping where Primal Groudon leaves off if it is somehow KOed. Since many teams carry just a single Prankster user, trading for it can allow the other sweeper to sweep unhindered. Mega Tyranitar and Necrozma-DM can also weaken walls like Giratina and Zygarde-C early-game so Primal Groudon can KO them later. Bulky entry hazard control Pokemon such as Defog Giratina and Pixilate Rapid Spin Mega Diancie are useful as partners to allow Primal Groudon to survive priority moves. They can also pivot Primal Groudon in with a slow U-turn and absorb status moves aimed at your offensive Pokemon. Giratina can also opt to run Z-Parting Shot to give Primal Groudon a second chance at sweeping. A way to offensively check Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Gengar is useful, as they heavily damage and outspeed Primal Groudon before it sets up. Choice Scarf Adaptability Mega Gengar and Tough Claws Mega Beedrill check these threats and can use U-turn on predicted switches. Choice Band Adaptability Mega Tyranitar can Pursuit trap Giratina, Mega Gengar, and Mega Mewtwo Y to help Primal Groudon.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

More offensive teams can opt for Morning Sun, which has half the PP of Shore Up but heals more HP per use. Knock Off or Poison Fang can be run to cripple common switch-ins such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Mega Slowbro. A Shift Gear set with Thousand Arrows, V-create, and a recovery move can sweep late-game but is forced out by too many threats such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Imposter to be reliable. Primal Groudon can forego Primal Reversion with a Leftovers + Fur Coat set to become a physical wall with an Electric immunity that can trap its Imposter with Thousand Waves. However, while it does not have the 4x Ice-type weakness of Zygarde-C, some common physical attackers like Adaptability Mega Mewtwo X and Refrigerate users still beat it. Mega Swampert can take hits from Kyurem-B better due to its additional Water typing but has lower overall physical bulk.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Dragon-types**: Prankster variants of Giratina and Zygarde-C have enough bulk to take V-create and can use Haze to remove any Shell Smash or Download boosts Primal Groudon has accumulated. Other variants are generally safe switch-ins but can lose to Shell Smash Primal Groudon, especially with entry hazards up. Assault Vest variants of both Dragon-types can take a +2 Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam from full HP and use Spectral Thief to steal Primal Groudon's boosts. Non-Prankster Giratina may not survive +3 Precipice Blades, however.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Several faster special attackers can check unboosted Primal Groudon after it gets a KO. Kyurem-W OHKOes Primal Groudon with Refrigerate Boomburst, regardless of whether or not the former runs a boosting item. Normalize Mega Gengar threatens to render Primal Groudon impotent with Entrainment. Primordial Sea Ash-Greninja forces out Primal Groudon with its Water-type STAB moves.

**Imposter**: Shell Smash Primal Groudon is very vulnerable to Imposter users, and finding a Pokemon that can wall its most effective moveset is difficult. While Imposter users must switch out after discovering Anchor Shot sets or be trapped and PP stalled, if they run Shed Shell, they can easily PP stall Primal Groudon or set up Stealth Rock.

**Ground-types and Ground-type Coverage**: Defensive sets of Primal Groudon should be wary of Mega Garchomp. Mega Garchomp outspeeds Primal Groudon that has not set up and threatens defensive sets out with its Ground-type STAB moves. Its common sets also prove troublesome to many common teammates that Primal Groudon works well alongside, and it can even take a single V-create. Primal Groudon is 2HKOed by Mega Diancie's Precipice Blades without an Impish nature, allowing Mega Diancie to easily PP stall Primal Groudon's recovery move if Precipice Blades doesn't miss. Zygarde-C often runs Thousand Waves and can survive V-create, letting it trap and KO Primal Groudon. Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y OHKOes Primal Groudon with Earth Power.

**Sturdy Shedinja**: Sturdy Shedinja walls most of Primal Groudon's attacks, but Primal Groudon can use Will-O-Wisp on it and can often force Stealth Rock up against Shedinja's teammates, making it difficult to switch Shedinja in. Shell Smash sets are usually helpless against Sturdy Shedinja, however.

**Other Prankster Users**: Prankster users such as Registeel and Aegislash can threaten to trade themselves for Shell Smash Primal Groudon with Destiny Bond, but defensive sets can just use these passive walls as opportunities to set up Stealth Rock or use Will-O-Wisp.

**Fire-immune Steel-types**: Flash Fire Steel-types such as Registeel and Ferrothorn can be very annoying to defensive Primal Groudon sets. Given a safe switch, they can recover any damage done to them and proceed to trap Primal Groudon. However, they risk losing to Precipice Blades and Shell Smash variants. Primordial Sea Celesteela works similarly, but it fears Thousand Arrows and Shell Smash-boosted Power Trip.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [SuperSkylake, 323219]
- Quality checked by: [[Electrolyte, 148072], [GL Volkner, 330455], [Chessking345, 355040]]
- Grammar checked by: [[bigtalk, 466663], [The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216]]

 

[SuperSkylake]

Bump, this is ready for qc.

 

[Scarf]

this is way too bare-bones for us to properly critique right now. in some places there's not enough information being conveyed and in others the manner in which you present information is far too informal. take a look at some of the other analysis to get an idea of what i'm talking about here. for instance the overview needs to state what groudon does in the metagame and why i should or shouldn't use it, and i'm not getting that from reading your analysis. as for the presenting information part, remember that although you should be writing in bullet points, they should still be full sentences. bullet points like "this groudon set fits on heavy offensive teams as lategame sweeper", "Must wait late game when checks are chipped down into range. Use damage calculator to check. " or "Special defense a bit weak leaving it vulnerable to strong STAB special moves" isn't language fit for official analyses. it's more appropriate for casual bh thread posts. please try to improve that so that it's ready for checks. additionally, we'd like you to change the sets a little. the sets you have right now are too similar to one another to warrant separation so instead merge the two and add another set, much like this: http://puu.sh/B1UMl/12a7271e47.png

 

[SuperSkylake]

I will fix the bullet points up. I don't know what the picture says though. I was going off of the sets in the setpedia and my personal experience playing with Groudon, and those sets do play differently. Is there another set in the png that I should write about that I might have missed? Because it's limited to running Red Orb to be primal there aren't many other sets possible.
Edit: The image is from the setpedia. Is Grassy surge really a viable option on the defensive set?

 

[SuperSkylake]

It's ready to be qced

 

[SuperSkylake]

ScarfWynaut Funbot28 MAMP this is ready for qc.

 

[SuperSkylake]

bump. Also, I'm debating moving shell smash to OO now that illusion is not an option because improofing that set is very difficult.

 

[cityscapes]

amqc here whatup

[OVERVIEW]

the points that you already have are fine, but i would add a couple more:

base 180 attack and 150 spa is really nice because it makes pdon a viable mixed attacker
v create is one of the biggest reasons to use pdon, because 180 power can ohko neutrally hit mons like audino
pdon has actually good physical bulk letting it take blows from physical attackers like ph regi
pdon must run red orb so you can't run any other item, that's kinda lame
same with desolate land (although it is a good ability)

Grassy Surge

electric surge is probably better on this because you can bluff offensive bolt strike and also have a sleep immunity

• Stealth Rock punishes the many switchins Groudon forces, but Giratina and Zygarde-C, both standard switch-ins to Groudon, often run magic Bounce, making it an unreliable setter.

yeah bounce zyg/gira are semi common but i wouldn't call sr pdon "unreliable", it beats out every other bouncer which is more than most other hazard setters can say. maybe "matchup dependent "?

This Groudon set can be played both defensively as a check to some dangerous attackers such as Mega Diancie and Choice-locked Mega Mewtwo X,

mmx locked into what?? stabs do like 60 to 80 and uturn doesn't work. pdon wins 1v1 from full hp yeah, but this is a bad example. a better one is like cb kartana not locked into whip or arrows

• this set fits best on bulky offensive teams that want a check to threatening attackers and a setup sweeper in a single teamslot

shift gear is optional and a ton of mons fill these criteria (ph xern for example beats ph dark types and mmx and sets up with qd). be sure to mention the specific mons pdon counters and its ability to kill guys with v create as things pdon offers to a team.

Physically defensive Pokemon with a Fire Resistance such as Giratina, Zygarde-C or mega Slowbro can switch into Imposter users who copy Groudon. If running Stealth Rock, Magic Bounce is mandatory so that Stealth Rocks stay off your side of the field.

bounce isn't mandatory, i mean it's nice to have yeah but rocks on both sides of the field is hardly the worst you can do.

[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades
move 3: Sacred Fire / V-Create / Ice Beam
move 4: Fleur Cannon / Bolt Strike
item: Red Orb
ability: Electric Surge / Download

imo the moves on this are a little weird

v create is almost mandatory on this set because it helps you kill frailer resists like gyara at +2
bolt strike is bad. ff celesteela is the only thing it's relevant vs and even then it dies to 2 arrows without doing much back. psea steela can maybe switch in on smash but it's only a check outside that, plus you can come in directly on it to get sun up. bro survives +2 outside of terrain, ho oh dies to +2 v-create as do most other waters. fleur is almost always the set

imo the moves should be like v create/smash/fleur, ice beam or moongeist/pblades, bolt strike, or arrows.

• It is best to use a minus spd nature so that Groudon's offenses are not degraded, and most priority moves are physical and Groudon can tank a few if it's healthy.

252+ SpA Life Orb Rayquaza-Mega Oblivion Wing vs. -1 252 HP / 252- SpD Groudon-Primal: 337-398 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-spdef is definitely still an option because with -def, ray fakespeed does about as much as the above, but -def should be slashed too i think.

• Red orb gives it a nice boost to both offenses, a fire typing, and desolate land

instead of this just say "red orb allows don to transform into pdon"

• Download gives Groudon a boost to one of its offensive stats, in case the power from Shell Smash isn't enough.

say what specifically this is useful for. +3 fleur ohkos giratina for example

Remove Imposter users if Groudon doesn't have illusion up,

illusion mention, remove

for team options give a special shoutout to contrary because it's really good at forcing trades with prankster and wearing down imposter. mmx in particular is good because it can go mixed to lure in giratina effectively.

also give examples of how to imposter-proof this set, it seems relatively unintuitive. depends on the moves but guys like shed, prankster users, unaware gira/zyg/bro, ff celesteela, and sash spectral users like mg mega diancie are options

• Another option for the defensive set is U-Turn with minimum speed IVs to take better advantage of forced switches, but Groudon would rather be supporting its team by directly attacking.

uturn is fine as a supporting option because it lets you get in kyuw and friends for free, the reason it's usually not preferable is because it requires giving up both sr and shift gear which sucks. change the reason why it's bad to that

• Normal Groudon can run leftovers and Fur Coat to become a nice physical wall with electric immunity

you're not giving the readers any reason to use this mon besides "it has high physical bulk" and "it is immune to electric". why would i use this over zyg c? what physical attackers does it beat? be specific.

• Normal Groudon with Soundproof is cool to block -ates but Slowbro-mega has a better typing for it as it resists Kyurem-B's Fakespeed instead of being weak to it.

that's cool, but again, why would you use soundproof don? give reasons outside of "it's cool to block -ates".

solar blade also deserves a possible mention here because it beats waters and also ttar so you can run ice beam over ground stab. grassy terrain recovery is also nice. set loses to a lot though like ff steels wall

**Bulky Dragon-types**: Giratina and Zygarde-C wall the Shift Gear variants of Primal Groudon indefinitely due to their resistant to V-Create, but they must be afraid to switch in on a Shell Smash. Assault Vest variants of both can take a Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam from full and Spectral Thief Groudon's boosts.

be sure to mention prankster variants of gira/zyg, which are super scary for offensive pdon because you basically need to kill them or chip them to like 40%, otherwise they switch in and stop your sweep.

Mewtwo-Mega-Y outspeeds and does massive damage with Psycho Boost or Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power, but require minor chip damage to guarantee the KO

252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo-Mega-Y Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Groudon-Primal: 382-450 (94.5 - 111.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

this is super dangerous for pdon, it dies even after pre transformation rocks and the roll isn't in your favor from full hp. say "earth power almost always kills" or something

**Bulky Unaware Water-types**: Unaware water -types like Primal Kyogre or Mega Gyarados can check Primal Groudon once but will suffer serious damage from V-Create. Electric Terrain boosted Bolt Strike variants also OHKO them.

unaware waters don't check pdon at all, he just clicks v create twice and kills them. they can't kill in return unless they core on the first v create and carry water stab. change this to like "physical walls that don't die to v create" and list slowbro fc pert etc as options

**Poison**: Toxic Poison severely cuts into Shift Gear Groudon's longevity and makes it difficult to check things or sweep with it.

change this to status in general. all status is really bad news for pdon because paralysis basically means you can't sweep and gyara can spam recover on v create fishing for a para which is super lame, and sleep sucks.

don't move smash to oo please half my teams still lose to this mon and the other half have prankster giratina

 

[SuperSkylake]

Implemented, awaiting first qc check

 

[Ren]

qc check

[OVERVIEW]


• Primal Groudon is a powerful bulky attacker in the metagame when equipped with Red Orb, which leaves it with only one type weakness and a double STAB boost when using Fire moves thanks to Desolate Land. being weak to one type is cool and all but talk about what this does for it in the meta or cut it as the line's otherwise filler, also mention what the weakness is. it's also not really a stab boost, just say the added fire type on top of the harsh sunshine makes pdon's fire moves powerful The sheer power of Desolate Land and STAB-boosted V-Create can tear through relatively bulky targets that take neutral damage, such as Mega Audino, with ease. this is more of a set details thing. also you talk about v-create in overview but it's your secondary slash on the first set, being outdone by sacred fire. something is slashed first when it's a more viable choice - if v-create is mentioned in the overview, it better be very important and not a slash
• It is also offensively versatile, with a wide choice of viable moves that can lure otherwise reliable checks give examples. giratina, zygarde, etc.... Its 180 attack and 150 special attack are excellent for mixed attacking sets as well.
• It is initially quite slow, so it struggles against offensive teams what are examples of offensive pokemon on offensive teams
• It has high defense which allows it to live hits avoid ohkos from powerful physical attackers such as Regigigas' and Mega Mewtwo-X from full health, but lower Special Defense leaving it vulnerable to attacks from common special attackers such as Mega Rayquaza and mega Mewtwo-Y.
• It is normally walled say checked. walled implies it can't bypass the pokemon by some ubiquidous mons like Zygarde-C and Giratina that many teams have., but it can bypass these checks with appropriate coverage coming from its respectively high special attack. <- say that but better
* It cannot reliably win 1v1 against Imposter, and for this reason it must have teammates that can force Imposter out. well, this part is pretty pointless imo. not many pokemon in bh can win 1v1 against imposter. even if you were to keep this, having teammates that force imposter out is different than having teammates that



[SET]
name: DefensiveTank
move 1: Shift Gear / Stealth Rock
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades
move 4: Sacred Fire / V-Create
item: Red Orb
ability: Misty Surge / Download, if you're offensive then you'll want download
nature: Adamant / Careful
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spd / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========
• Shift gear doubles Groudon's speed just say boosts, it goes 2x -> 3x -> 4x, not 2x -> 4x -> 8x, allowing it to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon mention how it outspeeds offensive pokemon in particular, also mention how this makes it difficult to offensively check, while also boosting its attack to a level where it can OHKO most offensive Pokemon who take neutral damage. give examples
• Stealth Rock punishes the many switchins Groudon forces and the threat of V-Create scares Magic Bounce Pokemon that do not resist fire. However, Giratina and Zygarde-C often run magic Bounce and can switch into this set easily, so Groudon will find it difficult to set up Stealth Rock against them.
• Morning sun heals two thirds of Groudon's HP and lets it stay in longer or consistently check Pokemon such as Mega Diancie.
• Thousand Arrows is a moderately strong STAB move, hitting Mega Diancie and many Flash Fire Steel-types for high damage. It can hit Pokemon with a Ground immunity, such as Flash Fire Celesteela.
• Precipice Blades is another option that is considerably more powerful, guaranteeing the OHKO on Registeel from full. Its accuracy is shaky though, and it cannot hit Flying-types.
• Sacred Fire is an alternative to V-Create that does not force out Primal Groudon after a few uses. It is far less powerful, though it also can spread burns once Misty Surge is down. why is sacred fire being mentioned as an alternative to v-create when it's the first slash.. also, misty surge x sacred fire can just be awful. opt for a different ability or a different fire stab
• V-Create is a devastatingly strong Fire attack backed up by STAB and Desolate land, able to OHKO almost anything that takes Neutral damage from it. It is not 100% accurate and lowers Groudon's Speed and defenses, which can cede momentum.

Set Details
========
• An Adamant nature maximizes Primal Groudon's power, which lets it reach some damage benchmarks such as a guaranteed KO on Regigigas with V-Create at +0.
• You may also consider running a Careful or Impish nature instead, which gives Groudon a bit of extra physical bulk. This allows it to tank some physical hits better so that it may set up. One example is Regigigas Facade, which at +1 will never KO Impish Groudon with Stealth Rock but has a chance to KO Adamant variants. this can be shortened to smth like "An Impish Nature can help Primal Groudon avoid the OHKO from a +1 Regigigas' Facade." careful doesn't boost pdon's physical bulk and it's not on the set, so take that out or move that one lower.
• Red Orb gives Groudon a massive stat boost, most notably in Attack and Defense, as well as the Desolate Land to power up its Fire-type move. nitpick: red orb allows groudon to primal revert, it doesn't give the actual stat boosts.
• Misty Surge activates Misty Terrain when Groudon is first sent out, protecting it from status moves such as Spore and the Toxic poison from Poison Fang. It also halves the damage of Core Enforcer, which is often employed against it. If running Sacred Fire, Grassy Surge allows it to still spread burns and recover some hp for a few turns. slash grassy surge then
download bullet

Usage Tips
========
• This Groudon set can be played both defensively as a check to some dangerous attackers such as Mega Diancie;this should be a comma not a semicolon Ho-Oh you can't do much to ho-oh, and Kartana choice-locked into Sunsteel Strike or any kartana, really, that isn't locked into precipice, and offensively as a bulky setup sweeper if one opts for Shift Gear.
• If running Stealth Rock, it is important to scout for Magic Bounce Pokemon that wall pdon such as Giratina before setting it up. It may be almost impossible to get Stealth Rock set up if the Magic Bounce Pokemon can counter your set, even with a Sacred Fire burn.
• Remember to keep Groudon healthy and status-free if you need it to check something, and do not rely on Groudon to check more than one threat to your team if possible. Morning Sun only has 8 pp. so it's prone to getting pp stalled easily
• If you can afford to play more offensively, send out Groudon against a Pokemon that it threatens out such as a Steel-type, so that it can get a free attack off or double switch into a wallbreaker that is effective against its counter. what counters pdon? what wallbreakers are effective vs said counters? also, say checks instead of counters - pdon has no counters even post pdon ban
• Against defensive teams, wait to set up Shift Gear until checks are in KO range at +1 im assuming, as most Defensive Pokemon run Spectral Thief or other setup control moves to frustrate Groudon's efforts.
• many offensive teams do not have a reliable switchin to Groudon's devastatingly powerful movesjust say primal groudon, also most offensive teams have mray which can switch in once. Bringing Groudon in against a Pokemon it can OHKO such as will force the opponent to make a difficult decision on what to sacrifice. Wait to set up until you are reasonably sure that checks such as powerful Priority users and fast Scarfers are gone.
bullet for conserving pp - touched on in morning sun but i dont think it can be overstated that 8 recovery pp and 8 fire stab pp can be annoying, so just mention that.
bullet for scouting for surprise ground-type coverage

Team Options
========
• this set fits best on bulky offensive teams that want a check to threatening attackers physical attackers, also give examples and a setup sweeper if this was just a setup sweeper sg wouldnt be slashed. just say powerful wallbreaker, as that's how this pdon is often played in a single teamslot.
• Physically defensive Pokemon with a Fire Resistance such as Giratina, Zygarde-C or mega Slowbro can switch into Imposter users who copy Groudon. you can just say Imposterproof, it's grammatically fine If running Stealth Rock, Magic Bounce is useful so that Stealth Rock stays off your side of the field. A less conventional option is Primordial Sea Celesteela, which completely walls Precipice Blades sets and forces the Imposter out with the thread of Scald.
• An -Ate user such as mega Diancie or kyurem-Black helps you break Giratina and Zygarde-c. In return, Groudon threatens Steel-types that would wall the -ate user. mention how mdiancie in particular is great bc it can be improofed by pdon.
• Entry hazard setters such as Registeel or Giratina can help to accumulate chip damage on primal groudon's checks and bring Groudon in with a slow pivot.
• mixed attackers like the mega mewtwos or Contrary Mega Rayquaza can Remove sturdy Shedinja no, these pokemon are not infamous for removing sturdy shedinja. go for a better example such as moldy mega gengar and they can also help to break through physically bulky Pokemon.
• Soundproof users or steel walls Steel-types like Soundproof Zygarde-c or Flash Fire Registeel can trap imposters this reads weirdly. do you mean imposters for primal groudon? their own imposters? untransformed imposters? and wall -ate, which can threaten Groudon.
• Check to Triage Mega Rayquaza such as sand stream mega Tyranitar or Unaware Zygarde-Complete ok unaware zygc isn't a triage mray check since some use z dragon stab, pick a different unaware. are helpful because Groudon can't take +3 oblivion wings wings? wings as in the plural? mention how it cant do much vs mray either. Sand Stream Mega Tyranitar can also scare Shedinja from switching into Primal Groudon's attacks because a double switch could cause it to faint to Sand damage.
hazard removal, important bc of morning sun's low pp
checks to specially offensive pokemon like mmy

[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades
move 3: V-Create / Bolt Strike v-create should literally never be forgone on these sets, much less for bolt strike. slash bolt strike with the ground moves and move v-create up to move 2.
move 4: Fleur Cannon / Ice Beam / Moongeist Beam remove moongeist here, keep it as a moves mention
item: Red Orb
ability: Electric Surge / Download reverse these slashes because bolt strike is the main beneficiary of elec surge but it's a second/third slash after the change
nature: Naughty
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
• Shell Smash sets Groudon up to sweep the opposing team and outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. what kos does it help primal groudon get? be less vague than "sets pdon up to sweep the team"
• Thousand Arrows allows Groudon to hit Flying types with its STAB move but is not very powerful actually pdon's arrows is p powerful just bc of the high attack.
this should be a separate bullet Precipice Blades has a noticeably higher damage output than tarrows but cannot hit Flying-types and is less accurate, so it should be ran alongside Bolt Strike pdon generally shits on every flying type save primsea celes so i dont think it's exactly mandatory. Earthquake is also an option here because of its higher power and perfect accuracydont run eq it's only 10 bp stronger than tarrows.
separate bullet Bonemerang is available as well, to hit through Focus Sash users but its accuracy is not perfect and also it's not really more powerful than tarrows, 10 bp isnt strong enough to justify it.
• Sacred Fire is boosted by desolate land and STAB, and though it is much less powerful than v-create, it has no adverse side effects. It deals solid damage against targets that take neutral damage such as.
• Fleur cannon is the best move to complement sacred firechange this to fire-type coverage, blasting use a better word physically defensive Dragons that can take Thousand Arrows and Sacred Fire such as Giratina and Zygarde-C.
• Alternatively, Bolt Strike can be used to lure and OHKO Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and yveltal, but Groudon then loses coverage against Giratina or Zygarde-C. wait what. this was slashed with your fire-type coverage not move 4
• Replacing the Fire STAB move with ice Beam is viable alongside Bolt Strike it's not a viable option fire stab on pdon is nigh mandatory also this is slashed w/ fleur , as it hits Dragon-types supereffectively and gives Groudon pseudo bolt-beam coverage which hits almost all threats at least neutrally.ok but this is bh, hitting everything for neutral isnt as good as in standards bc everything has increased bulk
• Moongeist Beam is an option to retain coverage against Giratina and hit Sturdy Shedinja, but the loss in coverage is bad. and it doesnt hit zygc

Set Details
========
• It is best to use a minus spd naughty nature so that Groudon's offenses are not degraded, and most priority moves are physical and Groudon can tank a few if it's healthy. Groudon is sitll able to survive a Triage Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza if it has taken no damage.
• Red orb gives it a nice boost to both offenses, a fire typing, and desolate land just say it allows groudon to primal revert
• Electric Surge is the best ability for this set, especially no, only. otherwise it's just outdone by misty when used alongside bolt strike to achieve KOs against Kyogre, Yveltal , and ho-oh why have you not mentioned celesteela with that move. It blocks sleep as well.
• Download gives Groudon a boost to one of its offensive stats, in case the power from Shell Smash isn't enough or it's too early to start sweeping. This is enough to OHKO all variants of Giratina after a Shell Smash. a spatk boost isnt guaranteed, and +spdef tina makes sure pdon isnt guaranteed to ko with fleur, and regenvest giratina exists

Usage Tips
========
• This set fits best as a late-game cleaner on offense-minded teams more of a team option and should not be sent out until its checks have been weakened or removed.
• Get Groudon in against something that it would force out, such as a Steel-type, to give it a free setup turn.
• Get rid of prankster users as they can remove Groudon's setup, Encore it, or force an unfavorable trade with Destiny Bond.
• Remove Imposter users, because they can easily countersweep, or at best force a two for one trade with your prankster Destiny Bond user. Try not to reveal Groudon's set to Imposter users before it is ready to set up, as your opponent will then be unsure of what they must preserve to check it. alternatively, keep your imposter-proof pokemon intact.
• Unaware users with spectral thief such as Zygarde-C can stop your sweep as well and must be weakened to the point that they can be OHKOed
• Keep Groudon healthy enough to take priority moves like +0 Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza and Fake Out + Extreme Speed from Kyurem-B.
dont recklessly switch it in on stuff that can cripple it (poison/sleep)
use slow momentum to get pdon in

Team Options
========
• this groudon set fits on heavy offensive teams as a late-game sweeper and cleaner, thus wallbreakers are the key to setting the stage for its sweepwhat wallbreakers? mmx, mmy, etc.. merge with 3rd point since you talk about wallbreakers there.
• Imposter-proofing this set dependsentirely on the coverage. Find a Pokemon that is not 2hKOed by any move on the set after a Shell Smash. For example, Shedinja can imposter-proof variants without Moongeist Beam, and Ho-Oh can handle those without Thousand Arrows and bolt Strike.
• Powerful wallbreakers like mega Garchomp, Zekrom, Choice Specs Mega Rayquaza, Choice Specs Kyurem-w, Banded Mega Mewtwo X or Contrary Mega Mewtwo Y can weaken unaware users, pressure physical walls, or force prankster users to trade with you. This give them excellent offensive synergy. ok, merge this with the first bullet then since you talk about wallbreakers anyway
• offensive hazard setters like Mega Diancie, Mega Gengarmgar doesnt have the slots to run hazards generally, try to find a better example, or kartana can get hazards up to weaken walls and break Focus Sashes. Mega Gengar and Kartana can threaten Shedinja too, one of the most reliable checks to this set.
• Flash fire steels like Registeel can switch into -ate users, counter regigigas with Entrainment, and threaten to trap Imposter again clarify, all of who are otherwise threatening to Groudon.
• Another Shell Smasher like Mega Tyranitar can finish sweeping where Groudon left off. It can also weaken things like Giratina and Zygarde-C early game so Groudon can sweep later. mention how most teams only have one prank dbonder so another smasher can also help get that out of the way
hazard control
triage checks
-ate mray and kyub checks (can merge w/ triage for offensive priority checks)
status absorbers
checks to mons like mmy and stuff
probably more that im forgetting rn, give it a read after implementing all of the above


Strategy Comments
Other Options
=============
• The Defensive set can run Intimidate to soften an otherwise lethal blow such as, but it only works once.
• Another option for the defensive set is U-Turn with minimum speed IVs to take better advantage of forced switches, but Groudon would rather be supporting its team by directly attacking.
say how it can run a self improof hazard setting set w/ anchor rocks v-create shore up to trap imposter and get hazards up on most bouncers
• Normal Groudon can run leftovers and Fur Coat to become a nice physical wall with electric immunity that can trap its imposter with Thousand Waves and does not have the 4x weakness to ice of Zygarde-C, but some common physical attackers still beat it like what, also split this sentence up. Swampert-Mega can take Kyurem-B hits better due to its additional water typing. Slowbro-mega stands up far better to Choice Band MMX's Photon Guiser due to its secondary Psychic typing.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Dragon-types**: Giratina and Zygarde-C wall the Shift Gear variants of Primal Groudon indefinitely due to their resistant to V-Create, but they must be afraid to switch in on a Shell Smash. Assault Vest variants of both can take a Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam from full and Spectral Thief Groudon's boosts. Prankster variants can easily halt any attempted sweep.
**Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Rayquaza sets outspeed Groudon that have not set up and are bulky enough to take a hit from those that have no, it can't take a +2 fleur. Aerilate ones can deal massive damage to Groudon with Boomburst, KOing if they have a Life Orb or Specs. Triage sets KO Groudon with Oblivion Wing at +3. Mewtwo-Mega-Y outspeeds and has a chance to OHKO with Psycho Boost or Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power, but require minor chip damage to guarantee the KO, and fall to say must be wary of just to be clearer V-Create from full health.
**Imposter**: Shift Gear Groudon is unable to beat its Imposter one on one and must switch out. Shell Smash Groudon is even more vulnerable to Imposter, and finding something that can wall its most effective moveset is difficult.
**Bulky Unaware Water-types**: Unaware water -types like Primal Kyogre or Mega Gyarados can check Primal Groudon once but will suffer serious damage from V-Create. Electric Terrain boosted Bolt Strike variants also OHKO them. then they dont check. pogre and mgyara have shit physdef which means they take a lot from every attack pdon will throw at it. they cant hit back w/ a powerful water type attack either. remove
**Sturdy Shedinja**: Sturdy Shedinja walls most Primal Groudon sets unless they are lucky with Sacred Fire burns.
**Prankster users**: Prankster users such as Registeel and Aegislash threaten to trade with Destiny Bond or Encore Groudon's setup move, which forces the Groudon user to switch out. however most of them cannot switch in
**Status**: Toxic Poison severely cuts into Shift Gear Groudon's longevity and makes it difficult to check things or sweep with it. A sleeping Groudon is a sitting duck, and it is hard to safely burn sleep turns with it because it lets in so many strong attackers.

implement this, i'm not stamping yet because there's an overwhelming amount to get through so i want to make sure you implement it all correctly.

Edit: I know I said for you to tag me after, but there's so much to get through on this analysis that I'm gonna have to QC reject it. Simply put, there's a lot of basic errors, some metagame info is just wrong or not at the level an analysis is expected to provide, and a lot of points seem lacking in flesh and detail.

QC Reject 1/3

Gonna leave the QC check above just so you have somewhere to start improving the analysis a little more.

 

[SuperSkylake]

qc check

implement this, i'm not stamping yet because there's an overwhelming amount to get through so i want to make sure you implement it all correctly.

I implemented this.

 

[Ren]

I'm putting [QC change] and [End QC change] at the start and end of my proposed changes to make it easier for your screen reader to read it.

[OVERVIEW]


• Primal Groudon is a powerful bulky attacker in the metagame when equipped with Red Orb, which leaves it with only a Ground-type weakness and STAB V-Create that can tear through relatively bulky targets that take neutral damage, such as Mega Audino, with ease.
• It is also offensively versatile, with a wide choice of viable moves such as Fleur Cannon and Bolt Strike that can lure otherwise reliable checks such as Giratina and Celesteela respectively. Its 180 attack and 150 special attack are excellent for mixed attacking sets as well.
• It is initially quite slow, so it struggles against Pokemon on offensive teams such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Mega Gengar that force it out given a safe switch.
• It has high defense which allows it to avoid being OHkoed by powerful physical attackers such as Regigigas' and Mega Mewtwo-X, but lower Special Defense leaving it vulnerable to attacks from common special attackers such as Mega Rayquaza and mega Mewtwo-Y.
• It is normally checked by some ubiquidous mons like Zygarde-C and Giratina that many teams have, but can bypass them with the appropriate moves on mixed sets.
* Groudon must have reliable imposter-proofing support thanks to the sheer power behind its moves, especially after setup, and inability to run viable Imposter lure sets. Otherwise Imposter can easily sweep through the rest of the user's team.


[SET]
name: DefensiveTank
move 1: Shift Gear / Stealth Rock
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: V-Create / Sacred Fire
move 4: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades
item: Red Orb
ability: Misty Surge / Grassy Surge / Download
nature: Adamant / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spd / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========
• Shift gear doubles Groudon's speed [QC change] still think this should just say boosts instead of doubles[End QC change] , allowing it to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon including all Choice Scarf users with 120 Speed or less, while also boosting its attack to a level where it can OHKO offensive Pokemon with Precipice Blades such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Mega Gengar. Being able to sweep with Thousand Arrows allows Primal Groudon to avoid using up PP and losing defenses due to V-Create. [QC change] i dont think this should be a point at all, much less on shift gear[End QC change]
• Stealth Rock punishes the many switchins Groudon forces and the threat of V-Create scares Magic Bounce Pokemon that do not resist fire. However, Giratina and Zygarde-C often run magic Bounce and can switch into this set easily, so Groudon will find it difficult to set up Stealth Rock against them.
• Morning sun heals two thirds of Groudon's HP and lets it stay in longer or consistently check Pokemon such as Mega Diancie.
• V-Create is a devastatingly strong Fire attack backed up by STAB and Desolate land, able to OHKO almost anything that takes Neutral damage from it. It is not 100% accurate and lowers Groudon's Speed and defenses, which can cede momentum.
• Sacred Fire is an alternative to V-Create that does not force out Primal Groudon after a few uses. It is far less powerful, though it also can spread burns once Misty Surge is down.
• Fire Lash is another option on Misty Surge sets that has far more PP and can force switches. It is extremely weak, doing less damage over two turns than Sacred Fire to a target that does not switch out. [QC change] emphasize fire lash's benefits because at the moment, it just sounds like a worse option[End QC change]
• Thousand Arrows is a moderately strong STAB move, hitting Mega Diancie and many Flash Fire Steel-types for high damage. It can hit Pokemon with a Ground immunity, such as Flash Fire Celesteela.
• Precipice Blades is another option that is considerably more powerful, guaranteeing the OHKO on Registeel from full. Its accuracy is shaky though, and it cannot hit Flying-types.


Set Details
========
• An Adamant nature maximizes Primal Groudon's power, which lets it reach some damage benchmarks such as a guaranteed KO on Regigigas with V-Create at +0.
• You may also consider running an Impish nature instead, which gives Groudon a bit of extra physical bulk. This allows it to tank some physical hits better such as Regigigas's +1 Facade after Stealth Rock.
• Red Orb allows Groudon to primal revert, giving it a stat boost and the Desolate Land ability. It also makes Groudon immune to Trick and take reduced damage from Knock Off.
• Misty Surge activates Misty Terrain when Groudon is first sent out, protecting it from status moves such as Spore and the Toxic poison from Poison Fang. It also halves the damage of Core Enforcer, which is often employed against it. If running Sacred Fire, Grassy Surge allows it to still spread burns and recover some hp for a few turns.
• On more offense-minded teams, Download is a possible option to give a +1 boost to an offensive stat, though if Groudon gets a special attack boost, the opportunity has been wasted. Unfortunately most of Groudon's standard switch-ins run Spectral Thief, making Download boosts short-lived much of the time. [QC change] a special attack boost isnt exactly a waste as it still does a lot to giratina and stuff, just say how it's unreliable for boosting what primal groudon wants and shouldn't be taken for granted or something [End QC change]


Usage Tips
========
• This Groudon set can be played both defensively as a check to some dangerous attackers such as Mega Diancie, choiced Zekrom [QC change] 252 Atk Choice Band Tough Claws Zekrom Dragon Hammer vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Groudon-Primal: 180-213 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO probably not the best example, try something like pheromosa,[end QC change] and Kartana choice-locked into a move that is not Ground-type, and offensively as a bulky setup sweeper if one opts for Shift Gear.
• If running Stealth Rock, it is important to scout for Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Giratina before setting it up. It may be almost impossible to get Stealth Rock set up if the Magic Bounce Pokemon can counter your set, even with a Sacred Fire burn.
• Remember to keep Groudon healthy and status-free if you need it to check something, and do not rely on Groudon to check more than one threat to your team if possible. Morning Sun and V-Create have only 8 pp each, leaving Groudon vulnerable to PP stalling.
• If you can afford to play more offensively, send out Groudon against a Pokemon that it threatens out such as a Steel-type, so that it can get a free attack off or double switch into a wallbreaker that is effective against its counter [QC change] say check[End QC change] . For example, you might U-Turn out of Necrozma-Dusk-Mane into Groudon on the opponent's switch-in to Registeel, then hard switch to Mega Diancie as they bring in Giratina or Zygarde-C. [QC change] this can be shortened to "...that is effective against its check, such as Mega Diancie on Giratina." [End QC change]
• Against defensive teams, wait to set up Shift Gear until checks are in KO range at +1, as most Defensive Pokemon run Spectral Thief or other setup control moves to frustrate Groudon's efforts.
• many offensive teams do not have a reliable switchin to Groudon's devastatingly powerful moves. Note that Mega Rayquaza can take a single V-Create from Primal Groudon even at +1. Bringing Groudon in against a Pokemon it can OHKO will force the opponent to make a difficult decision on what to sacrifice. Wait to set up until you are reasonably sure that checks such as powerful Priority users and fast Scarfers are gone.
• scout for Ground-type coverage, which deals super-effective damage against Primal Groudon. Mega Garchomp,, opposing Primal Groudon [QC change] mention mmy in particular[End QC change] , and Kartana often carry it and can at worst speed-tie [QC change] after the mega mewtwo y change change this to outspeed [End QC change] if Groudon has no speed boosts.

Team Options
========
• this set fits best on bulky offensive teams that want a check to threatening attackers [QC change] again, physical attackers and examples [End QC change] and a wallbreaker in a single teamslot, that may also get the opportunity to do some late-game sweeping with Shift Gear.
• Physically defensive Pokemon with a Fire Resistance such as Giratina, Zygarde-C or mega Slowbro can imposterproof Groudon. If running Stealth Rock, Magic Bounce is useful so that Stealth Rock stays off your side of the field. A less conventional option is Primordial Sea Celesteela, which completely walls Precipice Blades sets and forces the Imposter out with the thread of Scald. [QC change] but mention how this also lets groudon get rocks on the field on the switch to primordial sea celesteela [QC change]
• An -Ate user such as mega Diancie or kyurem-Black helps you break Giratina and Zygarde-c with Boomburst. It can also force out offensive Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo-X and Mega Sceptile by threatening a revenge KO from Extreme Speed, if the offensive Pokemon do not carry anti-priotity abilities. In return, Groudon threatens Steel-types that would wall the -ate user. [QC change] my point on how diancie in particular is good bc primal groudon can imposterproof still stands[QC change]
• Entry hazard setters such as Registeel or Giratina can help to accumulate chip damage and bring Groudon in with a slow pivot.
• offensive pokemon like the mega mewtwos or Mold Breaker Mega Gengar can Remove sturdy Shedinja and they can also help to break through physically bulky Pokemon.
• Soundproof or steel-type walls like Soundproof Zygarde-c or Flash Fire Registeel can help eliminate Imposters by trapping them as they switch in, and wall -ate users which can accumulate chip damage on Groudon.
• Checks to Triage Mega Rayquaza such as sand stream [QC change] dont need to specify sand stream, can also be unaware. just say defensive megattar [End QC change] mega Tyranitar or Fur Coat Chansey [QC change] fur coat chansey isnt that great of a check, something like unaware mega audino fits better even though i dislike it in the current meta [End QC change] are helpful because Groudon cannot survive a +3 Oblivion Wing or KO it as it sets up. Sand Stream [QC change] specify mega tyranitar here [End QC change] can also scare Shedinja from switching into Primal Groudon's attacks because a double switch could cause it to faint to Sand damage.
• Hazard removers as such as Defog [QC change] dont need to specify defog, also consider listing more than just giratina (i.e. giratina, yveltal, etc) [End QC change] Giratina help Groudon preserve its limited recovery PP and reliably check threats.
• Fast, frail [QC change] doesnt have to be frail [End QC change] Pokemon such as Choice Band Pheramosa and Choice Scarf Adaptability Mega Gengar can also check Mega Mewtwo forms, Deoxys-Attack, and Mega Sceptile. All of these Pokemon can hit Groudon hard with Special attacks.


[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: V-Create
move 3: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades / Bolt Strike
move 4: Fleur Cannon / Ice Beam
item: Red Orb
ability: Download / Electric Surge
nature: Naughty
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
• Shell Smash sets Groudon up to sweep the opposing team and outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. +2 Fleur Cannon OHKOs non-Assault Vest Giratina after Stealth Rock, and guarantees the OHKO on any Zygarde-C set with Ice Beam. The Shell Smash boost also lands the OHKO on Mega Mewtwo x and y with Thousand Arrows, allowing Groudon to not use V-Create to OHKO these targets. [QC change] this is a gp thing, but the flow of the paragraph will read very weirdly if you put shell smash's benefits first. what i did to fix this on my zekrom analysis is put the main moves first, talked about them and then talk about how shell smash modified their ability to get kos. also mmx doesnt get guaranteed get ohkoed by +2 tarrows [End QC change]
• V-Create deals enormous damage to targets neutral to it [QC change] there aren't many targets neutral to it, but specify ones that are, such as chansey and mega audino. if you can think of a better example that'll work as well [End QC change] , and at +2 can even land OHKOs on targets that resist it after minimal chip such as Primal Kyogre and Mega Gyarados. However, The speed- and Defense-lowering effects leave Groudon more vulnerable to revenge KOs from Choice Scarf and Priority users.
• Thousand Arrows allows Groudon to hit Flying types with its STAB move [QC change] give examples of flying types, mainly celesteela[End QC change] and has respectable power at +2. [QC change] talk about how it also doesn't lower defense special defense or speed which is good because that way, primal groudon can conserve v-create pp while also maintaining a sweep [End QC change]
• Precipice Blades has a noticeably higher damage output against bulky neutral targets such as Flash Fire Ferrothorn, but cannot hit Flying-types, which may allow a daring opponent to more easily pivot with immunities.
• Alternatively, Bolt Strike can be used to lure and OHKO Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and yveltal, but Groudon then loses coverage against Giratina or Zygarde-C. [QC change] bolt strike isn't ever run over coverage for the dragons and looking at the slashes on your set this isn't the case here either. instead just say it loses a strong stab move.[End QC change]
• Bonemerang is another niche option that allows Groudon to KO through Focus Sash [QC change] a ko isn't guaranteed, just say break focus sashes and select substitutes [End QC change] , but it is only marginally more powerful than Thousand Arrows and has less accuracy.
• Fleur cannon is the best move to complement Fire-type coverage, severely damaging physically defensive Pokemon that can take Thousand Arrows and V-Create such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Mega Slowbro.
• ice Beam is viable alongside Bolt Strike, as it hits Dragon- and Ground-types supereffectively and gives Groudon pseudo bolt-beam coverage which hits almost all threats at least neutrally. [QC change] mention how it doesnt drop special attack either [end QC change] However, Groudon loses the ability to OHKO Giratina without significant chip damage at +2.
• Moongeist Beam is an option to retain coverage against Giratina and hit Sturdy Shedinja, but the inability to hit common checks (especially Zygarde-C) is a very high opportunity cost.

Set Details
========
• It is best to use a Naughty nature so that Groudon's offenses are not degraded, and most priority moves are physical and Groudon can tank a few if it's healthy. Groudon is still able to survive a Triage Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza if it has taken no damage.
• Red orb is mandatory to primal revert. [QC change] mention how primal reversion helps primal groudon more than any item could help it [end QC change]
• Download gives Groudon a boost to one of its offensive stats, in case the power from Shell Smash isn't enough. This is enough to OHKO all variants of Giratina after a Shell Smash except Assault Vest ones, which can still be KOed after Stealth Rock damage. [QC change] mention how a special attack boost in particular is enough, since an attack boost doesn't really help it ohko all variants of tina. [End QC change]
• Electric Surge is the ability of choice when used alongside bolt strike to help achieve KOs against Mega Slowbro, Flash Fire Steel-types, and ho-oh. It blocks sleep as well [QC change] which helps pdon set up on foes that could normally inconvenience it with sleep [End QC change] .

Usage Tips
========
• This set fits best as a late-game cleaner on offense-minded teams and should not be sent out until its checks have been weakened or removed. [QC change] This belongs in team options, you can merge it with point 1 there or cut it. [End QC change]
• Get Groudon in against something that it would force out, such as a Steel-type, to give it a free setup turn.
• Get rid of prankster users as they can remove Groudon's setup, Encore it, or force an unfavorable trade with Destiny Bond.
• Be very wary of Imposter users, because they can easily countersweep, or at best force a two for one trade with your prankster Destiny Bond user. Try not to reveal Groudon's set to Imposter users before it is ready to set up, as your opponent will then be unsure of what they must preserve to check it. [QC change] talk about how alternatively, you can keep your imposter-proofer alive.[End QC change]
• Unaware users with spectral thief such as Zygarde-C can stop your sweep as well and must be weakened to the point that they can be OHKOed [QC change] or eliminated [End QC change]
• Keep Groudon healthy enough to take priority moves like +0 Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza and Fake Out + Extreme Speed from Kyurem-B.
• Scout for Status moves such as Xerneas's Lovely Kiss or Dialga's Glare so that Groudon does not recklessly switch into them and get crippled. Slow pivots are great scouts for such moves and can get Groudon in safely.
[QC change] Implement a point for using hazards and double switches to get chip damage on switch-ins [End QC change]

Team Options
========
• this groudon set fits on heavy offensive teams as a late-game sweeper and cleaner, thus wallbreakers are the key to setting the stage for its sweep. Examples include mega Garchomp, Zekrom, Choice Specs or Triage Mega Rayquaza, Choice Specs Kyurem-w, Banded Mega Mewtwo X or Contrary Mega Mewtwo Y [QC change] woah you really took my examples seriously. i appreciate it, but you don't need so many. stick to 3 or so [End QC change] . These Pokemon can weaken Unaware users, force trades with Prankster users, defeat Sturdy Shedinja with Moongeist Beam or Photon Guiser, or chip down Imposter users that switch in to scout their sets.
• Imposter-proofing this set depends entirely on the coverage. Find a Pokemon that is not 2hKOed by any move on the set after a Shell Smash. For example, Shedinja can imposter-proof variants without Moongeist Beam, and Ho-Oh can handle those without Thousand Arrows and bolt Strike [QC change] Ho-Oh isn't a great improof, it gets 2hkoed by v-create and ohkoed by it after a shell smash. primordial sea celesteela would fit better here[end QC change] .
• Hyper offensive teams may not want to lose momentum switching into an Imposterproof, so a Focus Sash user such as Magic Guard Mega Diancie can Spectral Thief the boosts from an Imposter [QC change] specify imposter pokemon, also specify what they're impostering [end QC change] and continue sweeping with them.
• offensive hazard setters like Stealth Rock Mega Diancie, Mold Breaker Spikes Solgaleo, or Stealth Rock kartana can get hazards up to weaken walls and break Focus Sashes. Solgaleo and Kartana can threaten Shedinja too, one of the most reliable checks to this set.
• Flash fire steels like Registeel can switch into -ate users, counter regigigas with Entrainment, and threaten to trap Imposters which switch in to them, all of who are otherwise threatening to Groudon.
• Another setup sweeper such as Shell Smash Mega Tyranitar, Focus Sash Shell Smash Mega Gengar, or Belly Drum Necrozma-Dusk-Mane can finish sweeping where Groudon left off if it is somehow KOed. Since many teams carry just a single Prankster user, trading with Groudon can allow the other sweeper to sweep unhindered. Mega Tyranitar and Necrozma-DM can also weaken walls like Giratina and Zygarde-C early game so Groudon can KO them later.
• Bulky hazard control such as Defog Giratina or Rapid Spind Assault Vest Dialga are useful as partners to allow Groudon to survive priority moves such as Oblivion Wing from Triage Mega Rayquaza. They can also pivot Groudon in with a slow U-Turn and absorb Status moves aimed at your offensive Pokemon. Giratina can also opt to run Z Parting Shot to give Groudon a second chance at sweeping.
• A way to offensively check Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Gengar, and Mega Rayquaza is useful. Dazzling + Shell Smash Focus Sash users such as Pheramosa or a Mega Mewtwo of your own do this well.


Strategy Comments
Other Options
=============
• The Defensive set can run Intimidate to soften an otherwise lethal blow such as Mega Mewtwo-X's Adaptability-boosted Close Combat, but it only works once.
• Another option for the defensive set is U-Turn with minimum speed IVs to take better advantage of forced switches, but Groudon would rather be supporting its team by directly attacking.
• Primal Groudon can run a set consisting of Anchor Shot, Stealth Rock, V-Create and Morning Sun [QC change] this set doesn't run morning sun, as it's designed to pp stall imposter without losing much pp. spamming anchor shot isnt always an option, so shore up lets you avoid losing too much pp on your recovering move [End QC change] to set Stealth Rock while trapping its own Imposter. The threat of V-Create keeps most Magic Bounce users from switching in, but Magic Bounce Zygarde-C and Giratina can shut down this set with no trouble at all.
• Normal Groudon can run leftovers and Fur Coat to become a nice physical wall with electric immunity that can trap its imposter with Thousand Waves. It does not have the 4x weakness to ice of Zygarde-C, but some common physical attackers like Adaptability Mega Mewtwo-X and any refrigerate user still beat it. Swampert-Mega can take hits from Kyurem-B better due to its additional water typing, but has overall lower physical bulk. Mega Slowbro stands up far better to Mega Mewtwo X's Photon Guiser due to its secondary Psychic typing, but has additional weakness to Electric, Dark and Ghost that Primal Groudon does not have.
[QC change] mention shore up as an option on all sets that use recovery for its high pp. [End QC change]

Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Dragon-types**: Giratina and Zygarde-C wall the Shift Gear variants of Primal Groudon indefinitely due to their resistant to V-Create, but they must be afraid to switch in on a Shell Smash. Assault Vest variants of both can take a Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam from full and Spectral Thief Groudon's boosts. Prankster variants can easily halt any attempted sweep.
**Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Rayquaza sets outspeed Groudon that have not set up and are bulky enough to take a hit from those that have, apart from Fleur Cannon [QC change] and ice beam [End QC change] . Aerilate ones can deal massive damage to Groudon with Boomburst, KOing if they have a Life Orb or Specs. Triage sets KO Groudon with Oblivion Wing at +3, and threaten the OHKO after Stealth Rock at +0 if Groudon has -1 Special Defense. Mewtwo-Mega-Y outspeeds it and has a high chance to OHKO with Psycho Boost or Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power, but must be wary of V-Create. Normalize Mega Gengar threatens to render Groudon impotent with Entrainment.
**Imposter**: Shift Gear Groudon is unable to beat its Imposter one on one and must switch out. Shell Smash Groudon is even more vulnerable to Imposter, and finding something that can wall its most effective moveset is difficult.
**Ground-Types and coverage**: Defensive sets of Primal Groudon should be wary of Mega Garchomp. Mega Garchomp outspeeds Primal Groudon that has not set up and threatens defensive sets out with its Ground-type STAB. Its common movesets also prove troublesome to many common Teammates which Groudon works well alongside. Primal Groudon is 2hKOed by Mega Diancie's Precipice Blades, allowing it to easily PP stall Morning Sun.
**Sturdy Shedinja**: Sturdy Shedinja walls most Primal Groudon sets unless they are lucky with Sacred Fire burns or carry the subpar Moongeist Beam.
**Prankster users**: Prankster users such as Registeel and Aegislash threaten to trade with Destiny Bond or Encore Groudon's setup move, which forces the Groudon user to switch out. However, they cannot safely switch in without risking a KO from V-Create.
**Flash Fire Ferrothorn**: Flash Fire Ferrothorn can be very annoying to defensive Groudon sets. Given a safe switch in, it can recover any damage done to it via Strength sap and Leech Seed [QC change] it doesnt often run leech seed [end QC change] . However, it risks a 2hKO from Precipice Blades. Flash Fire Ferrothorn is not hit supereffectively by any viable moves on the Shell Smash set, allowing it to check the set from full health with Z-Haze or Spectral Thief. However, it cannot do much to prevent Groudon from just setting up again besides Leech Seeding. [QC change] honestly ferrothorn isn't a great groudon check because it loses to ground stab. i'd cut this. [End QC change]
**Status**: Toxic Poison severely cuts into Shift Gear Groudon's longevity and makes it difficult to check things or sweep with it. A sleeping Groudon is a sitting duck, and it is hard to safely burn sleep turns with it because it lets in so many strong attackers.

very good improvement on this one, stamping this. implement this properly for qc 1/3

 

[SuperSkylake]

very good improvement on this one, stamping this. implement this properly for qc 1/3

Implemented

 

[SuperSkylake]

Bump, qc 2/3 please?

 

[SuperSkylake]

waiting patiently for next qc
E4 Flint
Electrolyte
Funbot28 - QC Teams Leader
Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

 

[Electrolyte]

(Comments in bold.)
[OVERVIEW]

• Primal Groudon is a powerful bulky attacker in the metagame when equipped with Red Orb, which leaves it with only a Ground-type weakness and STAB V-Create that can tear through relatively bulky targets that take neutral damage, such as Mega Audino, with ease.
• It is also offensively versatile, with a wide choice of viable moves such as Fleur Cannon and Bolt Strike that can lure otherwise reliable checks such as Giratina and Celesteela respectively. Its 180 attack and 150 special attack are excellent for mixed attacking sets as well. Especially when boosted by Desolate Land, and especially because Fire has a slew of powerful and reliable attacks for PDon to use
• It is initially quite slow, so it struggles against Pokemon on offensive teams such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Mega Gengar that force it out given a safe switch.
• It has high defense which allows it to avoid being OHkoed by powerful physical attackers such as Regigigas' and Mega Mewtwo-X, but lower Special Defense leaving it vulnerable to attacks from common special attackers such as Mega Rayquaza and mega Mewtwo-Y. (VERY vulnerable to special attacks)
• It is normally checked by some ubiquidous mons like Zygarde-C and Giratina that many teams have, but can bypass them with the appropriate moves on mixed sets.
* Groudon must have reliable imposter-proofing support thanks to the sheer power behind its moves, especially after setup, and inability to run viable Imposter lure sets. Otherwise Imposter can easily sweep through the rest of the user's team.
Also, it is somewhat limited by needing to use Red Orb and Desolate Land, as without them normal Groudon is otherwise quite subpar. This limits its flexibility and makes it fairly predictable.


[SET]
name: DefensiveTank
move 1: Shift Gear / Stealth Rock
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: V-Create / Sacred Fire
move 4: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades
item: Red Orb
ability: Misty Surge / Grassy Surge / Download
nature: Adamant / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spd / 252 Spe


[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

• Shift gear boosts Groudon's speed, allowing it to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon including all Choice Scarf users with 120 Speed or less, while also boosting its attack to a level where it can OHKO offensive Pokemon with Precipice Blades such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Mega Gengar. (They already die. The main benefits of Shift Gear is outspeeding things, while being marginally stronger so you don't have to rely on V-Create or even Precipice
• Stealth Rock punishes the many switchins Groudon forces and the threat of V-Create scares Magic Bounce Pokemon that do not resist fire. However, Giratina and Zygarde-C often run magic Bounce and can switch into this set easily, so Groudon will find it difficult to set up Stealth Rock against them.
• Morning sun heals two thirds of Groudon's HP and lets it stay in longer or consistently check Pokemon such as Mega Diancie.
• V-Create is a devastatingly strong Fire attack backed up by STAB and Desolate land, able to OHKO almost anything that takes Neutral damage from it. It is not 100% accurate and lowers Groudon's Speed and defenses, which can cede momentum.
• Sacred Fire is an alternative to V-Create that does not force out Primal Groudon after a few uses. It is far less powerful, though it also can spread burns once Misty Surge is down.
• Fire Lash is another option on Misty Surge sets that has far more PP and can force switches, racking up entry hazard damage and softening up defensive answers throughout the game. It is extremely weak without hazard support, doing less damage over two turns than Sacred Fire to a target that does not switch out. It also makes Groudon far easier to switch into because of the absence of V-Create. (Not slashed so mention at end of paragraph after all slashed moves have been mentioned)
• Thousand Arrows is a moderately strong STAB move, hitting Mega Diancie (OHKOing Mega Diancie) and many Flash Fire Steel-types for high damage. It can hit Pokemon with a Ground immunity, such as Flash Fire Celesteela. (However, it makes Primal Groudon harder to Imposter-proof)
• Precipice Blades is another option that is considerably more powerful, guaranteeing the OHKO on Registeel from full. Its accuracy is shaky though, (making it less reliable than TArrows) and it cannot hit Flying-types.


Set Details
========
• An Adamant nature maximizes Primal Groudon's power, which lets it reach some damage benchmarks such as a guaranteed KO on Regigigas with V-Create at +0. (and OHKO Mega Diancie with TArrows)
• You may also consider running an Impish nature instead, which gives Groudon a bit of extra physical bulk. This allows it to tank some physical hits better such as Regigigas's +1 Facade after Stealth Rock. (I don't like Impish. THe power loss from Adamant is actually very significant as you lose out on a lot of crucial KOs. I'd like to see a better/more relevant damage calc than this considering non impish can also survive +1 Facade, and this specific situation is rare. Waiting for other QC input in this as well.)
• Red Orb allows Groudon to primal revert, giving it a stat boost and the Desolate Land ability. It also happens to make Groudon immune to Trick and take reduced damage from Knock Off. (say it also "happens to make Groudon immune etc." because that's not why we use it)
• Misty Surge activates Misty Terrain when Groudon is first sent out, protecting it from status moves such as Spore and the Toxic poison from Poison Fang. It also halves the damage of Core Enforcer, which is often employed against it. If running Sacred Fire, Grassy Surge allows it to still spread burns and recover some hp for a few turns.
• On more offense-minded teams, Download is a possible option to give a +1 boost to an offensive stat, though if Groudon gets a special attack boost, Groudon cannot use it. A +1 V-Create is strong enough to have a chance to 2hKO non-Fur Coat Giratina with Stealth Rock damage. Unfortunately most of Groudon's standard switch-ins run Spectral Thief, making Download boosts short-lived much of the time.

Usage Tips
========
• This Groudon set can be played both defensively as a check to some dangerous attackers such as Mega Diancie, Pheromosa, and Kartana choice-locked into a move that is not Ground-type, and offensively as a bulky setup sweeper if one opts for Shift Gear.
• If running Stealth Rock, it is important to scout for Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Giratina before setting it up. It may be almost impossible to get Stealth Rock set up if the Magic Bounce Pokemon can counter your set, even with a Sacred Fire burn.
• Remember to keep Groudon healthy and status-free if you need it to check something, and do not rely on Groudon to check more than one threat to your team if possible. Morning Sun and V-Create have only 8 pp each, leaving Groudon vulnerable to PP stalling.
• If you can afford to play more offensively, send out Groudon against a Pokemon that it threatens out such as a Steel-type, so that it can get a free attack off or double switch into a wallbreaker that is effective against its check. For example, you might pivot into Groudon on the opponent's switch-in to Registeel, then hard switch to Mega Diancie predicting your opponent to switch to a bulky Dragon.
• Against defensive teams, wait to set up Shift Gear until checks are in KO range at +1, as most Defensive Pokemon run Spectral Thief or other setup control moves to frustrate Groudon's efforts.
• many offensive teams do not have a reliable switchin to Groudon's devastatingly powerful moves. Note that Mega Rayquaza can take a single V-Create from Primal Groudon even at +1. (what is this doing here? Remove it) Bringing Groudon in against a Pokemon it can OHKO will force the opponent to make a difficult decision on what to sacrifice. Wait to set up until you are reasonably sure that checks such as powerful Priority users and fast Scarfers are gone.
• scout for Ground-type coverage, which deals super-effective damage against Primal Groudon. Mega Garchomp,, Mega Mewtwo-Y, and Kartana often carry it and can outspeed it if Groudon has no speed boosts.
(be careful when confronting special attackers because of PDon's low special bulk - most can do at least 50% neutral stab damage to PDon. Probably even mention Ray here - it can absorb sacred / vc and easily OHKO with DMeteor or boomburst.)

Team Options
========

• this set fits best on bulky offensive teams that want a check to some specific attackers like Mega Diancie and Pheromosa and a wallbreaker in a single teamslot, that also has potential to do some late-game sweeping with Shift Gear.
• Physically defensive Pokemon with a Fire Resistance such as Giratina, Zygarde-C or mega Slowbro can imposterproof Groudon. If running Stealth Rock, Magic Bounce is useful so that Stealth Rock stays off your side of the field. A less conventional option is Primordial Sea Celesteela, which completely walls Precipice Blades sets and forces the Imposter out with the thread of Scald, though an Imposter can set up Stealth Rock reliably as you switch into Celesteela if you decide to run it.
(remove this space)
• An -Ate user such as mega Diancie or kyurem-Black helps you break Giratina and Zygarde-c with Boomburst. It can also force out offensive Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo-X and Mega Sceptile by threatening a revenge KO from Extreme Speed, if the offensive Pokemon do not carry anti-priority abilities. In return, Groudon threatens Steel-types that would wall the -ate user. Groudon also can work as an Imposterproof to a Pixilate Mega Diancie set without Ground-type coverage.
• Entry hazard setters such as Registeel or Giratina can help to accumulate chip damage and bring Groudon in with a slow pivot.
(- Put Hazard removers bullet point here -)
• offensive pokemon like the mega mewtwos or Mold Breaker Mega Gengar can Remove sturdy Shedinja and they can also help to break through physically bulky Pokemon.
• Soundproof or steel-type walls like Soundproof Zygarde-c or Flash Fire Registeel can help eliminate Imposters by trapping them as they switch in, and wall -ate users which can accumulate chip damage on Groudon. (This is worded poorly. Say, Groudon is slow + has poor special defense + is vulnerable to revenge killing => weak to -ate => needs -ate counters as partners, in particular Boomburst absorbers => Soundproof partners are good.)
(these next two bullets can be condensed into one single point. PDon is weak to all Ray, not just triage ray, so it's misleading to use specificity here. In fact, the main point is that PDon is slow + has poor special defense, meaning it is very easy to force out with powerful special attackers. You capture the point better with a general statement - offensive and defensive checks to strong, fast special attackers such as MMY/MRay/Deo-A/MScept/Gar make good partners. So blanket checks like Mega TTar, Chansey, Regenvest Steels for defensive partners, and faster things like Phero, MScept itself, and Scarf Gengar I guess make for good offensive partners.)
• Checks to Triage Mega Rayquaza such as defensive mega Tyranitar or Fur Coat Chansey are helpful because Groudon cannot survive a +3 Oblivion Wing or KO it as it sets up. Sand Stream Mega Tyranitar can also scare Shedinja from switching into Primal Groudon's attacks because a double switch could cause it to faint to Sand damage.
• Hazard removers as such as Defog Giratina or Mega Audino help Groudon preserve its limited recovery PP and reliably check threats. (move this up)
• Fast Pokemon such as Choice Band Pheramosa and Choice Scarf Adaptability Mega Gengar can also check Mega Mewtwo forms, Deoxys-Attack, and Mega Sceptile. All of these Pokemon can hit Groudon hard with Special attacks.


[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: V-Create
move 2: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades / Bolt Strike
move 3: Fleur Cannon / Ice Beam
move 4: Shell Smash (SHell Smash should be move 1, then shift all other moves down. Smash -> VC -> TArrows/PBlades/BStrike ->Fleur/Ice)
item: Red Orb
ability: Download / Electric Surge
nature: Naughty
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
(Smash should be slashed first and explained first, as it is the main purpose of this set. Move its explanation to up here.)
• V-Create deals enormous damage to targets neutral to it such as Mega Audino and Arceus, and at +2 can even land OHKOs on targets that resist it after minimal chip such as Primal Kyogre and Mega Gyarados. However, The speed- and Defense-lowering effects leave Groudon more vulnerable to revenge KOs from Choice Scarf and Priority users. (slightly more vulnerable)
• Thousand Arrows allows Groudon to hit Flying types with its STAB move and has respectable power at +2.
• Precipice Blades has a noticeably higher damage output against bulky neutral targets such as Flash Fire Ferrothorn, but cannot hit Flying-types, which may allow a daring opponent to more easily pivot with immunities. (and shaky accuracy)
• Alternatively, Bolt Strike can be used to lure and OHKO Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and yveltal without lowering stats, but Groudon then loses its strong STAB move. (other strong STAB move)
• Bonemerang is another niche option that allows Groudon to break through Focus Sash and Substitute users, but it is only marginally more powerful than Thousand Arrows and has less accuracy. (move this to the bottom of the paragraph - explain all slashed moves before unslashed moves)
• Fleur cannon is the best move to complement Fire-type coverage, severely damaging physically defensive Pokemon that can take Thousand Arrows and V-Create such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Mega Slowbro.
• ice Beam is viable alongside Bolt Strike, as it hits Dragon- and Ground-types supereffectively and gives Groudon pseudo bolt-beam coverage which hits almost all threats at least neutrally without dropping Special Attack. However, Groudon loses the ability to OHKO Giratina without significant chip damage at +2. (It does OHKO Zygarde-C at +2, which Fleur does not do. However, Precipice Blades hits almost everything else harder than Ice Beam)
• Shell Smash sets Groudon up to sweep the opposing team and outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. +2 Fleur Cannon (has a decent chance to OHKO. +2 252 SpA Groudon-Primal Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Giratina: 400-472 (79.3 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock. This is not guaranteed at all) OHKOs non-Assault Vest Giratina after Stealth Rock, and guarantees the OHKO on any Zygarde-C set with Ice Beam. The Shell Smash boost also lands the OHKO on Mega Mewtwo x and y with Precipice Blades, allowing Groudon to not use V-Create to OHKO these targets. (move this up to the beginning)
(- mention bonemerang here -)
• Moongeist Beam is an option to retain coverage against Giratina and hit Sturdy Shedinja, but the inability to hit common checks (especially Zygarde-C) is a very high opportunity cost.


Set Details

========

• It is best to use a Naughty nature so that Groudon's offenses are not degraded, and most priority moves are physical and Groudon can tank a few if it's healthy. Groudon is still able to survive a Triage Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza if it has taken no damage. (note that it still outspeeds up to 140 252+ at +1. So it can still outspeed MMY even after one V-Create. Also, dont just blankly say it can survive Triage Oblivion Wing - say that "it can take special priority moves anyway, such as triage oblivion wing etc")
• Red orb is mandatory to primal revert and increase Groudon's subpar Special Attack to a respectable level. (not just special attack; both offensive stats and defense, making it a powerful wallbreaker and mixed attacker)
• Download gives Groudon a boost to one of its offensive stats, in case the power from Shell Smash isn't enough. This is enough to OHKO all variants of Giratina after a Shell Smash at +3 Special Attack except Assault Vest ones, which can still be KOed after Stealth Rock damage. (or you can OHKO all variants of Giratina except Unaware / Fur Coat with +3 Precipice)
• Electric Surge is the ability of choice when used alongside bolt strike to help achieve KOs against Mega Slowbro, Flash Fire Steel-types, and ho-oh. It blocks sleep as well, giving Groudon more setup opportunities.


Usage Tips
========
• Utilize entry hazard damage and make offensive double switches to chip down Groudon's checks such as Giratina and Zygarde-C throughout the game.
• Get Groudon in against something that it would force out, such as a Steel-type, to give it a free setup turn.
• Get rid of prankster users as they can remove Groudon's setup, Encore it, or force an unfavorable trade with Destiny Bond.
• Be very wary of Imposter users, because they can easily countersweep, or at best force a two for one trade with your prankster Destiny Bond user. Try not to reveal Groudon's set to Imposter users before it is ready to set up, as your opponent will then be unsure of what they must preserve to check it. If you have a teammate to Imposterproof the set, keep it alive to protect yourself from being counterswept by the Imposter.
• Unaware users with spectral thief such as Zygarde-C can stop your sweep as well and must be weakened to the point that they can be OHKOed or eliminated.
• Keep Groudon healthy enough to take priority moves like +0 Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza and Fake Out + Extreme Speed from Kyurem-B.
• Scout for Status moves such as Xerneas's Lovely Kiss or Dialga's Glare so that Groudon does not recklessly switch into them and get crippled. Slow pivots are great scouts for such moves and can get Groudon in safely.
(if PDon is healthy after it sets up or nabs a KO, don't be afraid to switch out and save it for later. This prevents it from being surprise punished by Spectral Thief and Destiny Bond)
(I don't think it's true that this set has to be offensive - it can be played as a bulky tank depending on the matchup; eg against bulkier teams. It doesn't have recovery like the other set, but it can still force switches and deal hefty damage as a wall breaker)
(Scout for priority and scarf)
(Don't be afraid to use V-Create - it's still fast at +1, so you just have to be wary of priority)

Team Options

========
• this groudon set (usually) fits on heavy offensive teams as a late-game sweeper and cleaner, thus wallbreakers are the key to setting the stage for its sweep. Examples include mega Garchomp, Choice Specs or Triage Mega Rayquaza, and Banded Mega Mewtwo X. These Pokemon can weaken Unaware users, force trades with Prankster users, defeat Sturdy Shedinja with Moongeist Beam or Photon Guiser, or chip down Imposter users that switch in to scout their sets.
• Imposter-proofing this set depends entirely on the coverage. Find a Pokemon that is not 2hKOed by any move on the set after a Shell Smash. For example, Shedinja can imposter-proof variants without Moongeist Beam, and Primordial Sea Celesteela can handle those without Thousand Arrows and bolt Strike.
• Hyper offensive teams may not want to lose momentum switching into an Imposterproof, so a Focus Sash user such as Magic Guard Mega Diancie can Spectral Thief the boosts from an Imposter who copies Groudon and continue sweeping with them.
• offensive hazard setters like Stealth Rock Mega Diancie, Mold Breaker Spikes Solgaleo, or Stealth Rock kartana can get hazards up to weaken walls and break Focus Sashes. Solgaleo and Kartana can threaten Shedinja too, one of the most reliable checks to this set.
• Flash fire steels like Registeel can switch into -ate users, counter regigigas with Entrainment, and threaten to trap Imposters which switch in to them, all of who are otherwise threatening to Groudon.
• Another setup sweeper such as Shell Smash Mega Tyranitar, Focus Sash Shell Smash Mega Gengar, (Make this just SSmash Mega Gengar; focus sash isn't the norm at all) or Belly Drum Necrozma-Dusk-Mane can finish sweeping where Groudon left off if it is somehow KOed. Since many teams carry just a single Prankster user, trading with Groudon can allow the other sweeper to sweep unhindered. Mega Tyranitar and Necrozma-DM can also weaken walls like Giratina and Zygarde-C early game so Groudon can KO them later.
• Bulky hazard control such as Defog Giratina or Rapid Spin Assault Vest Dialga are useful as partners to allow Groudon to survive priority moves such as Oblivion Wing from Triage Mega Rayquaza. They can also pivot Groudon in with a slow U-Turn and absorb Status moves aimed at your offensive Pokemon. Giratina can also opt to run Z Parting Shot to give Groudon a second chance at sweeping.
• A way to offensively check Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Gengar, and Mega Rayquaza is useful. Dazzling + Shell Smash Focus Sash users such as Pheramosa or a Mega Mewtwo of your own do this well.

Strategy Comments
Other Options
=============

• Defensive sets can opt for Shore Up, which has double the PP of Morning Sun but heals for less per use. This can help prevent Groudon from being PP stalled.
• The Defensive set can run Intimidate to soften an otherwise lethal blow such as Mega Mewtwo-X's Adaptability-boosted Close Combat, but it only works once.
• Another option for the defensive set is U-Turn with minimum speed IVs to take better advantage of forced switches, but Groudon would rather be supporting its team by directly attacking.
• Primal Groudon can run a set consisting of Anchor Shot, Stealth Rock, V-Create and Shore Up to set Stealth Rock while trapping its own Imposter. The threat of V-Create keeps most Magic Bounce users from switching in, but Magic Bounce Zygarde-C and Giratina can shut down this set with no trouble at all.
• Normal Groudon can run leftovers and Fur Coat to become a nice physical wall with electric immunity that can trap its imposter with Thousand Waves. It does not have the 4x weakness to ice of Zygarde-C, but some common physical attackers like Adaptability Mega Mewtwo-X and any refrigerate user still beat it. Mega Swampert can take hits from Kyurem-B better due to its additional water typing, but has overall lower physical bulk. Mega Slowbro stands up far better to Mega Mewtwo X's Photon Guiser due to its secondary Psychic typing, but has additional weakness to Electric, Dark and Ghost that Primal Groudon does not have.


Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Dragon-types**: Giratina and Zygarde-C wall the Shift Gear variants of Primal Groudon indefinitely due to their resistance to V-Create, but they must be afraid to switch in on a Shell Smash. Assault Vest variants of both can take a Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam from full and Spectral Thief Groudon's boosts. Prankster variants can easily halt any attempted sweep. (Mention that Giratina is also hit hard by Precipice Blades, and is unreliable when hazards are up)
(space in between each)
**Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Rayquaza sets outspeed Groudon that have not set up and are bulky enough to take a hit from those that have, apart from Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam. Aerilate ones can deal massive damage to Groudon with Boomburst, KOing if they have a Life Orb or Specs. Triage sets KO Groudon with Oblivion Wing at +3, and threaten the OHKO after Stealth Rock at +0 if Groudon has -1 Special Defense. Mewtwo-Mega-Y outspeeds it and has a high chance to OHKO with Psycho Boost or Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power, but must be wary of V-Create. Normalize Mega Gengar threatens to render Groudon impotent with Entrainment.

**Imposter**: Shift Gear Groudon is unable to beat its Imposter one on one and must switch out. Shell Smash Groudon is even more vulnerable to Imposter, and finding something that can wall its most effective moveset is difficult.

**Ground-Types and coverage**: Defensive sets of Primal Groudon should be wary of Mega Garchomp. Mega Garchomp outspeeds Primal Groudon that has not set up and threatens defensive sets out with its Ground-type STAB. Its common movesets also prove troublesome to many common Teammates which Groudon works well alongside. Primal Groudon is 2hKOed by Mega Diancie's Precipice Blades, allowing it to easily PP stall Morning Sun. (Mention zyg-c here as well)

**Sturdy Shedinja**: Sturdy Shedinja walls most Primal Groudon sets unless they are lucky with Sacred Fire burns or carry the subpar Moongeist Beam.

**Prankster users**: Prankster users such as Registeel and Aegislash threaten to trade with Destiny Bond or Encore Groudon's setup move, which forces the Groudon user to switch out. However, they cannot safely switch in without risking a KO from V-Create.

**Flash Fire Ferrothorn**: Flash Fire Ferrothorn can be very annoying to defensive Groudon sets. Given a safe switch in, it can recover any damage done to it via Strength sap. However, it risks a 2hKO from Precipice Blades on the switch and loses to most Shell Smash variants. (make this "Certain Flash Fire Steel-types", and include Celesteela, which avoids the 2HKO from Thousand Arrows and can imposterproof PBlades. However, be wary of Bolt Strike (which usually comes with Electric Surge))

**Status**: Toxic Poison severely cuts into Shift Gear Groudon's longevity and makes it difficult to check things or sweep with it. A sleeping Groudon is a sitting duck, and it is hard to safely burn sleep turns with it because it lets in so many strong attackers. (Checks & Counters must be unique and immediately effective. Status beats pretty much everything that isn't dedicated to not being beat by status. Thus, it doesn't need to be mentioned. If you really want to say something, mention that 'bulky dragon types' can run status to further shut PDon down.)

Analysis credits
Written by: SuperSkylake (323219)
Quality checked by: GL-Volkner 330455, [Electrolyte, 148071]

Sorry this took so long; it's a long and important analysis

A tip moving forward: Make sure to keep in mind impact when you are writing analyses. Because there are an infinite amount of true statements you could make about any particular Pokemon, make sure that you explain why the facts you're choosing to mention are worth saying.

QC 2/3

 

[SuperSkylake]

Implemented. Except the part where you say to move Shell Smash up to the top of the Shell Smash Set. If you look at QC 1/3, Gl Volkner advises me to put it at the end because it reads better. Not sure what you want to edo there.

 

[Ren]

Implemented. Except the part where you say to move Shell Smash up to the top of the Shell Smash Set. If you look at QC 1/3, Gl Volkner advises me to put it at the end because it reads better. Not sure what you want to edo there.

go w/ what he said, thank you for double checking tho n_n

 

[SuperSkylake]

waiting for that last precious qc check

 

[Ren]

Hello SuperSkylake,

You have to write this up into paragraph form before the 3rd QC check. Please do so and then notify any number of us on the thread.

Thanks

 

[SuperSkylake]

paragraphed now, awaiting qc 3/3

 

[Funbot28]

[OVERVIEW]

Primal Groudon is a powerful bulky attacker in the metagame when equipped with Red Orb, which leaves it with only a Ground-type weakness and STAB V-Create that can tear through relatively bulky targets that take neutral damage, such as Mega Audino add on examples such as Dialga, Xerneas, and Yveltal here too, with ease. It is also offensively versatile, with a wide choice of viable moves such as Fleur Cannon and Bolt Strike that can lure otherwise reliable checks such as Giratina and Celesteela respectively. Its 180 attack and 150 special attack are excellent for mixed attacking sets as well, and Desolate Land allows it to viably use a wide array of Fire-type moves. It is initially quite slow, so it struggles against Pokemon on offensive teams such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Mega Gengar that force it out given a safe switch seems a bit odd to have this negative point in between the positives section, maybe move it a bit down?. It has high defense which allows it to avoid being OHKOed by powerful physical attackers such as Regigigas and Mega Mewtwo-X, but lower Special Defense, which leaves it vulnerable to OHKOs from attacks from common special attackers such as Mega Rayquaza and mega Mewtwo-Y you kinda mentioned this previously already so ye merge the above comment of mine to this portion here. It is normally checked by some ubiquidous defensive Pokemon such as Zygarde-C and Giratina, but can bypass them with the appropriate moves on mixed sets. Groudon must have reliable imposter-proofing support thanks to the sheer power behind its moves, especially after setup, and inability to run viable Imposter lure sets. Otherwise Imposter can easily sweep through the rest of the user's team. It is fairly one-dimensional, as its Item and Ability are restricted to the Red Orb and Desolate Land. Hmm not sure to what extent I would like to add Improofing as a negative as most Pdon sets these days actually are built to Improof themselves. I would specifically highlight more offensive sets using Shell Smash and both of its STABs as being difficult to check (Imposter-Wise).

You should also mention a note upon how Pdon does not have much set versatility ability wise due to it being forced to Primal Revert in game, although this is not something that hinders it greatly.


[SET]
name: Tank
move 1: Shift Gear / Stealth Rock
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: V-Create / Sacred Fire <- Move this to slot 2
move 4: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades
item: Red Orb
ability: Misty Surge / Grassy Surge / Download
nature: Adamant / Impish
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 Spd / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Moves
========
Fix move mentions here accordingly
Shift gear boosts Groudon's speed, allowing it to outspeed all unboosted Pokemon including all Choice Scarf users with 120 Speed or less, while also boosting its offenses to a level where it can outspeed offensive Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo-Y and Mega Gengar and OHKO bulkier foes without using V-Create. Stealth Rock punishes the many switchins Groudon forces and the threat of V-Create scares Magic Bounce Pokemon that do not resist fire such as Mega Audino and Dialga. However, Giratina and Zygarde-C often run magic Bounce and can switch into this set easily, so Groudon will find it difficult to set up Stealth Rock against them. Morning sun heals two thirds of Groudon's HP and lets it stay in longer or consistently check Pokemon such as Mega Diancie. V-Create is a devastatingly strong Fire attack backed up by STAB and Desolate land, able to OHKO almost anything that takes Neutral damage from it. It is not 100% accurate and lowers Groudon's Speed and defenses, which can force Groudon to switch out, but the possible ohkos are worth it. Sacred Fire is an alternative to V-Create that does not force out Primal Groudon after a few uses. It is far less powerful, though it also can spread burns once Misty Surge is not up also note that it can potentially scare off Shedinja. Thousand Arrows is a moderately strong STAB move, hitting Mega Diancie and many Flash Fire Steel-types for high damage. It can hit Pokemon with a Ground immunity, such as Flash Fire Celesteela. However, it limits Primal Groudon's Imposter-proofing options. Precipice Blades is another option that is considerably more powerful, guaranteeing the OHKO on full HP Registeel and having a chance to 2hKO Flash Fire Ferrothorn if Groudon runs an Adamant Nature. Its accuracy is shaky though, and it cannot hit Flying-types. Fire Lash is another option for Fire-type coverage on Misty Surge sets that has far more PP and can force switches, racking up entry hazard damage and softening up defensive answers throughout the game. It is extremely weak without hazard support, doing less damage over two turns than Sacred Fire to a target that does not switch out. It also makes Groudon far easier to switch into because of the absence of V-Create.

Set Details
========
An Adamant nature maximizes Primal Groudon's power, which lets it reach some damage benchmarks such as a guaranteed KO on Regigigas with V-Create at +0 and a guaranteed KO against Mega Diancie with +0 Thousand Arrows. You may also consider running an Impish nature instead, which gives Groudon a bit of extra physical bulk. This allows it to tank some physical hits better such as Regigigas's +1 Facade after Stealth Rock also avoiding 2HKO from Diancie Pblades. Red Orb allows Groudon to primal revert, giving it a stat boost and the Desolate Land ability. It also has the side benefits of making Groudon immune to Trick and taking reduced damage from Knock Off. Misty Surge activates Misty Terrain when Groudon is first sent out, protecting it from status moves such as Spore and the Toxic poison from Poison Fang. It also halves the damage of Core Enforcer, which is often employed against it .Also note that it blocks PH mons from activating their ability. If running Sacred Fire, Grassy Surge allows it to still spread burns and recover some hp for a few turns. On more offense-minded teams, Download is a possible option to give a +1 boost to an offensive stat, though if Groudon gets a special attack boost, Groudon cannot use it. A +1 V-Create is strong enough to have a chance to 2hKO Giratina with Stealth Rock damage, if they are not running Fur Coat or Prankster. Unfortunately most of Groudon's standard switch-ins run Spectral Thief, making Download boosts short-lived much of the time.

Usage Tips
========
This Groudon set can be played both defensively as a check to some dangerous attackers such as Mega Diancie, Pheromosa, and Kartana choice-locked into a move that is not Ground-type, and offensively as a bulky setup sweeper if one opts for Shift Gear. If running Stealth Rock, it is important to scout for Magic Bounce Pokemon such as Giratina before setting it up. It may be almost impossible to get Stealth Rock set up if the Magic Bounce Pokemon can counter your set, even with a Sacred Fire burn. Remember to keep Groudon healthy and status-free if you need it to check something, and do not rely on Groudon to check more than one threat to your team if possible. Morning Sun and V-Create have only 8 pp each, leaving Groudon vulnerable to PP stalling. If you can afford to play more offensively, send out Groudon against a Pokemon that it threatens out such as a Steel-type, so that it can get a free attack off or double switch into a wallbreaker that is effective against its check. For example, you might pivot into Groudon on the opponent's switch-in to Registeel, then hard switch to Mega Diancie predicting your opponent to switch to a bulky Dragon. Against defensive teams, wait to set up Shift Gear until checks are in KO range at +1, as most Defensive Pokemon run Spectral Thief or other setup control moves to frustrate Groudon's efforts. many offensive teams do not have a reliable switchin to Groudon's devastatingly powerful moves. Bringing Groudon in against a Pokemon it can OHKO will force the opponent to make a difficult decision on what to sacrifice. Wait to set up until you are reasonably sure that checks such as powerful Priority users and fast Scarfers are gone. scout for Ground-type coverage, which deals super-effective damage against Primal Groudon. Mega Garchomp, Mega Mewtwo-Y, and Kartana often carry it and can outspeed it if Groudon has no speed boosts. Special attackers are also dangerous and Groudon should avoid confronting them if possible. For example, Mega Rayquaza can take a single V-Create from Primal Groudon even at +1, then set up with Tail Glow, or OHKO with Boomburst or Draco Meteor.


Team Options
========
This set fits best on bulky offensive teams that want a check to some specific attackers like Mega Diancie and Pheromosa and a wallbreaker in a single teamslot, that also has potential to do some late-game sweeping with Shift Gear. Physically defensive Pokemon with a Fire Resistance such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, or mega Slowbro can imposterproof Groudon, set up entry hazards, and pivot Groudon in safely with a slow U-Turn. If running Stealth Rock, Magic Bounce is useful so that Stealth Rock stays off your side of the field. A less conventional option is Primordial Sea Celesteela, which completely walls Precipice Blades sets and forces the Imposter out with the thread of Scald, though an Imposter can set up Stealth Rock reliably as you switch into Celesteela if Groudon runs the move. Bulky Entry Hazard removers such as Assault Vest Dialga with Rapid Spin or Defog Mega Audino allow Groudon to tank the hits it is supposed to and preserve its recovery pp, as it is vulnerable to every Entry Hazard. Groudon is weak to special -ate users and Poison Heal users such as Regigigas and Xerneas, which can put it to sleep after Misty Surge has expired. A Flash Fire Steel-type such as Registeel, Ferrothorn, or Aegislash can switch into these threats and neutralize them. With Anchor Shot, Registeel and Ferrothorn can trap and PP stall Imposter users that switch into them, which aids Groudon by removing a very troublesome threat to it. Checks to Special Attackers such as bulky Assault Vest users, Sand Stream Rock-types, or Fur Coat Chansey are helpful because Groudon cannot survive strong Special Attacks. Sand Stream can also scare Shedinja from switching into Primal Groudon's attacks because a double switch could cause it to faint to Sand damage.

Offensive pokemon like the mega mewtwos or Mold Breaker Mega Gengar can Remove sturdy Shedinja and they can also help to break through physically bulky Pokemon. An -Ate user such as mega Diancie or kyurem-Black helps you break Giratina and Zygarde-c with Boomburst. It can also force out offensive Pokemon such as Mega Mewtwo X and Mega Sceptile by threatening a revenge KO from Extreme Speed, if the offensive Pokemon do not carry anti-priority abilities. In return, Groudon threatens Steel-types that would wall the -ate user. Groudon also can work as an Imposterproof to a Pixilate Mega Diancie set without Ground-type coverage. some physical wallbreakers such as Mega Beedrill and Pheromosa can lure and defeat physical walls that Primal Groudon finds troublesome, such as Giratina and Zygarde-c (with Ice Hammer), Shedinja (with Sunsteel Strike), and Mega Slowbro (with Bolt Strike). Primal Groudon can work as an able Imposterproof to these sets. Fast Pokemon such as Choice Band Pheramosa and Choice Scarf Adaptability Mega Gengar can also check Mega Mewtwo forms, Deoxys-Attack, and Mega Sceptile. All of these Pokemon can hit Groudon hard with Special attacks.

[SET]
name: Shell Smash
move 1: Shell Smash
move 2: V-Create
move 3: Thousand Arrows / Precipice Blades / Bolt Strike
move 4: Fleur Cannon / Ice Beam
item: Red Orb
ability: Download / Electric Surge
nature: Naughty
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========
Shell Smash sets Groudon up to sweep the opposing team and outspeed the entire unboosted metagame. +2 Precipice Blades is a guaranteed OHKO against Mega Mewtwo forms, sparing Groudon from having to use V-Create. +2 Fleur Cannon has a chance to OHKO non-Assault Vest Giratina after Stealth Rock, and guarantees the OHKO on any Zygarde-C set with Ice Beam. V-Create deals enormous damage to targets neutral to it such as Mega Audino and Arceus, and at +2 can even land OHKOs on targets that resist it after minimal chip such as Primal Kyogre and Mega Gyarados. However, The speed- and Defense-lowering effects leave Groudon slightly more vulnerable to revenge KOs from Choice Scarf and Priority users. Thousand Arrows allows Groudon to hit Flying-types with its STAB move and has respectable power at +2. Precipice Blades has a noticeably higher damage output against bulky neutral targets such as Flash Fire Ferrothorn, but cannot hit Flying-types, which may allow a daring opponent to more easily pivot with immunities. Its accuracy is also imperfect. Alternatively, Bolt Strike can be used to lure and OHKO Primal Kyogre, Ho-Oh, and yveltal without lowering stats also note Mega Slowbro, but Groudon then loses a strong STAB move. Fleur cannon is the best move to complement Fire-type coverage, severely damaging physically defensive Pokemon that can take Thousand Arrows and V-Create such as Giratina, Zygarde-C, and Mega Slowbro. Ice Beam is viable alongside Bolt Strike, as it hits Dragon- and Ground-types supereffectively and gives Groudon pseudo bolt-beam coverage which hits almost all threats at least neutrally without dropping Special Attack, notably OHKOing Zygarde-C at +2 regardless of Zygarde's set. However, Groudon loses the ability to OHKO Fur Coat Giratina without significant chip damage at +2. Bonemerang is another niche option that allows Groudon to break through Focus Sash and Substitute users, but it is only marginally more powerful than Thousand Arrows and has less accuracy. Moongeist Beam is an option to retain coverage against Giratina and hit Sturdy Shedinja, but the inability to KO common checks (especially Zygarde-C) is a very high opportunity cost.

Set Details
========
It is best to use a Naughty nature so that Groudon's offenses are not degraded. Most priority moves are physical and Groudon can tank a few if it's healthy. Groudon is still able to outspeed Pokemon with a base speed of 140, such as Mega Mewtwo Y, after a speed drop from V-Create. Groudon is still able to survive Special priority moves, notably a Triage Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza if it has taken no damage. Red orb is mandatory to primal revert and increase Groudon's Attack, Defense, and subpar Special Attack. Download gives Groudon a boost to one of its offensive stats, in case the power from Shell Smash isn't enough. This is enough to OHKO all variants of Giratina after a Shell Smash at +3 Special Attack except Assault Vest ones with Fleur Cannon, which can still be KOed after Stealth Rock damage. +3 Attack allows Groudon to KO non Fur Coat Giratina with Precipice Blades. Electric Surge is the ability of choice when used alongside bolt strike to help achieve KOs against Mega Slowbro, Flash Fire Steel-types, and ho-oh. It blocks sleep as well, giving Groudon more setup opportunities. You forgot to mention why Electric Surge is run

Usage Tips
========
This set operates mainly as a late-game sweeper, but against teams without reliable checks, it can be used as a wallbreaker or an emergency check to a physical attacker. It is a good idea to keep Groudon healthy enough to take priority moves like +0 Oblivion wing from Mega Rayquaza and Fake Out + Extreme Speed from Kyurem-B. Scout for Status moves such as Xerneas's Lovely Kiss or Dialga's Glare so that Groudon does not recklessly switch into them and get crippled. Slow pivots are great scouts for such moves and can get Groudon in safely. Throughout the game, utilize entry hazard damage and make offensive double switches to chip down Groudon's checks, such as Giratina and Zygarde-C. Several other sorts of checks must be dealt with as well. Prankster users can remove Groudon's setup, Encore it, or force an unfavorable trade with Destiny Bond. Unaware users with spectral thief such as Zygarde-C can stop Groudon's sweep as well.

Once Groudon's checks have been dealt with, pivot Groudon in against something that it would force out, such as a Steel-type, to give a free setup turn. Be very wary of Imposter users, because they can easily countersweep, or at best force a two for one trade with your prankster Destiny Bond user. Try not to reveal Groudon's set to Imposter users before it is ready to set up, as your opponent will then be unsure of what they must preserve to check it. If you have a teammate to Imposter-proof the set, keep it alive to protect yourself from being counterswept by the Imposter. Be careful of faster attackers such as Priority and Choice Scarf users, which can accumulate significant chip damage on Groudon after its defenses have been lowered with Shell Smash and/or V-Create. Do not be afraid to switch Groudon out after it sets up and KOs something to save it for later, as its bulk, especially on the physical side, is surprisingly good and might allow it to set up again.


Team Options
========
This groudon set fits on heavy offensive teams as a late-game sweeper and cleaner, thus wallbreakers are the key to setting the stage for its sweep. Examples include mega Garchomp, Choice Specs or Triage Mega Rayquaza, and Choice Band Mega Mewtwo X. These Pokemon can weaken Unaware users, force trades with Prankster users, defeat Sturdy Shedinja with Moongeist Beam or Photon Guiser, or chip down Imposter users that switch in to scout their sets. Imposter-proofing this set depends entirely on the coverage. Find a Pokemon that is not 2hKOed by any move on the set after a Shell Smash. For example, Shedinja can imposter-proof variants without Moongeist Beam, and Primordial Sea Celesteela can handle those without Thousand Arrows and bolt Strike. Hyper offensive teams may not want to lose momentum switching into an Imposterproof, so a Focus Sash user such as Magic Guard Mega Diancie can Spectral Thief the boosts from an Imposter who copies Groudon and continue sweeping with them. Shedinja also fits well on HO so don't forget to mention that. Offensive hazard setters like Stealth Rock Mega Diancie, Mold Breaker Spikes Solgaleo Mega Gengar, or Stealth Rock kartana MMX can get hazards up to weaken walls and break Focus Sashes. Solgaleo and Kartana can threaten Shedinja, one of the most reliable checks to this set. Flash fire steel-types like Registeel can switch into -ate users, counter regigigas with Entrainment, and threaten to trap Imposters which switch in to them, all of who are otherwise threatening to Groudon. Another setup sweeper such as Shell Smash Mega Tyranitar, Shell Smash Mega Gengar, or Belly Drum Necrozma-DM can finish sweeping where Groudon left off if it is somehow KOed. Since many teams carry just a single Prankster user, trading with Groudon can allow the other sweeper to sweep unhindered. Mega Tyranitar and Necrozma-DM can also weaken walls like Giratina and Zygarde-C early game so Groudon can KO them later. Bulky hazard control such as Defog Giratina or Rapid Spin Assault Vest Dialga are useful as partners to allow Groudon to survive priority moves such as Oblivion Wing from Triage Mega Rayquaza. They can also pivot Groudon in with a slow U-Turn and absorb Status moves aimed at your offensive Pokemon. Giratina can also opt to run Z Parting Shot to give Groudon a second chance at sweeping. A way to offensively check Mega Mewtwo Y, Mega Gengar, and Mega Rayquaza is useful. Dazzling + Shell Smash users such as Pheramosa or a Mega Mewtwo of your own do this well when equipped with a Focus Sash. also note on how they can block opposing threats trying to revenge kill Pdon.

Strategy Comments
Other Options
=============

Defensive sets can opt for Shore Up, which has double the PP of Morning Sun but heals for less per use. This can help prevent Groudon from being PP stalled. The Defensive set can run Intimidate to soften an otherwise lethal blow such as Mega Mewtwo-X's Adaptability-boosted Close Combat, but it only works once. Another option for the defensive set is U-Turn with minimum speed IVs to take better advantage of forced switches, but Groudon would rather be supporting its team by directly attacking. Primal Groudon can run a set consisting of Anchor Shot, Stealth Rock, V-Create and Shore Up to set Stealth Rock while trapping its own Imposter. The threat of V-Create keeps most Magic Bounce users from switching in, but Magic Bounce Zygarde-C and Giratina still shut down this set with no trouble. Another viable variation on the above set is Anchor Shot, V-Create, Bolt Strike and Morning Sun with Electric Surge as the pre-Primal ability. This set retains Imposter-proof qualities, but trades Stealth Rock setting for additional coverage against Flying- and Water-types. This set also allows Groudon to work in most of its defensive capacities as well, as Anchor Shot OHKOs Mega Diancie and V-Create OHKOs Regigigas and Mega Mewtwo X. This should be getting its own main set. Groudon can forego Primal Reversion with a Leftovers Fur Coat set to become a physical wall with electric immunity that can trap its imposter with Thousand Waves. It does not have the 4x weakness to ice of Zygarde-C, but some common physical attackers like Adaptability Mega Mewtwo-X and any refrigerate user still beat it. Mega Swampert can take hits from Kyurem-B better due to its additional water typing, but has overall lower physical bulk. Mega Slowbro stands up far better to Mega Mewtwo X's Photon Geyser due to its secondary Psychic typing, but has additional weakness to Electric, Dark and Ghost that Groudon does not have.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Bulky Dragon-types**: Giratina and Zygarde-C wall the Shift Gear variants of Primal Groudon indefinitely due to their resistance to V-Create, but they must be afraid to switch in on a Shell Smash, especially with Entry Hazards. Assault Vest variants of both can take a Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam from full and Spectral Thief Groudon's boosts. Prankster variants can easily halt any attempted sweep. Giratina is also an unreliable counter to groudon because it may not survive +3 Precipice Blades.

**Strong Special Attackers**: Mega Rayquaza sets outspeed Groudon that have not set up and are bulky enough to take a hit from those that have, apart from Fleur Cannon or Ice Beam. Aerilate ones can deal massive damage to Groudon with Boomburst, KOing if they have a Life Orb or Choice Specs. Triage sets KO Groudon with Oblivion Wing at +3, and threaten the OHKO after Stealth Rock at +0 if Groudon has -1 Special Defense. Mega Mewtwo Y outspeeds it and has a high chance to OHKO with Psycho Boost or Sheer Force-boosted Earth Power, but must be wary of V-Create. Normalize Mega Gengar threatens to render Groudon impotent with Entrainment.

**Imposter**: Shift Gear Groudon is unable to beat its Imposter one on one and must switch out. Shell Smash Groudon is even more vulnerable to Imposter, and finding something that can wall its most effective moveset is difficult. Imposter must, however, switch out after discovering Anchor Shot sets or be trapped and PP stalled.

**Ground-Types and coverage**: Defensive sets of Primal Groudon should be wary of Mega Garchomp. Mega Garchomp outspeeds Primal Groudon that has not set up and threatens defensive sets out with its Ground-type STAB. Its common movesets also prove troublesome to many common Teammates which Groudon works well alongside. Primal Groudon is 2hKOed by Mega Diancie's Precipice Blades, allowing it to easily PP stall Morning Sun. Zygarde-C often runs Thousand Waves, which can trap and swiftly KO Groudon.

**Sturdy Shedinja**: Sturdy Shedinja walls most Primal Groudon sets unless they are lucky with Sacred Fire burns or carry the subpar Moongeist Beam.

**Other Prankster users**: Prankster users such as Registeel and Aegislash threaten to trade with Destiny Bond or Encore Groudon's setup move, which forces the Groudon user to switch out. However, they cannot safely switch in without risking a KO from V-Create.

**Flash Fire Steel Types not weak to Ground**: Flash Fire Ferrothorn can be very annoying to defensive Groudon sets. Given a safe switch in, it can recover any damage done to it via Strength sap. However, it risks a 2hKO from Precipice Blades on the switch and loses to most Shell Smash variants. Primordial Sea Celesteela works similarly, but fears Thousand Arrows and Electric Surge-boosted Bolt Strike.

**Poison Heal users**: Poison Heal users that outspeed Groudon, such as Regigigas and Xerneas, threaten to put it to sleep once Misty or Electric Terrain is down. However, they are usually not bulky enough to survive V-Create and cannot reliably set up, but the free turns allow the Sleep user to switch other Pokemon in more safely.

credits

Written by: SuperSkylake (323219)
Quality checked by: [Electrolyte, 148072], [GL Volkner, 330455]

Good job, however after discussing with QC we would like to have this have its own set:

Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike / Volt Switch
- Anchor Shot
- Shore Up

This is a very common Pdon set seen on many teams currently as it pairs greatly with threats such as Pixi MMX and Triage Mega Ray so we believe it should be highlighted within the analysis. Preferably as the second set option.

Once this is all implemented I would like to go over this again before giving the final stamp.

 

[SuperSkylake]

implemented Funbot28

 

[Funbot28]

I would like for you to go thoroughly through each comment in my check and make sure they are implemented, as some parts were either left out or not blatantly added. Also, after discussing with QC we would like re-arrange the set order and have Defensive trapping mentioned as its first set. We would also like to see the following changes:

Add Remove
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish / Careful Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike / Volt Switch <- Keep it in move mentions however
- Anchor Shot
- Shore Up

Adjust this portion of the analysis accordingly. Once this is done, I would like to look over once more before giving the final stamp of approval.

 

[SuperSkylake]

Funbot28 I went through your qc check carefully and hopefully got everything.