Generally speaking, we don't fight wild encounters when testing. Second, I have no idea how this list handles their tests, but how RBY, FRLG, HGSS, BW have done it is on a solo mentality. The Pokemon you are testing fights the match up by itself with limited aid as it can get. From what I am reading here, you used both Poliwag and Quilava on Bugsy meaning it was shared. Obviously we know that Quilava has no issue with Bugsy but how would Poliwag fare against Scyther? Again this is repeated on Rival 2. While it seems that I am trying to find as many things that you are doing wrong and jumping down your throat, it is not my intention. My intent is to guide you towards how testers test in each thread, but again I have no idea what Passerby is expecting from his testers so I cannot say, but it might be wise to do it the above way. Tends to get more accurate results. And when you test make sure to do a mu more than once. That way you can get as much info as possible. 3 runs each is magic number (unless you know for sure that it's gonna sweep easily i.e. Geodude on Falkner in HGSS).
No worries. My knowledge on Rematches in GSC is shaky as I haven't played it in a long time since my Mono Poison Run (don't do that run). So the level increase might be wrong and it could be Badge dependent like RSE was (Rematches there started after Norman and the levels would increase again sometime near the end game).
1. i
barely took part in any wild encounters at all lol. that being said, it's not as if wild encounters are to be completely avoided even in other ingame tier lists either - is not defeating audino considered a reliable way to farm experience points? hoppip is like that in the very early game, and until that point i had been fleeing wild encounters with my cyndaquil. i bopped the hoppip and a pidgey after that to get cyndaquil to level 6 and i do remember raising poliwag one or two levels off union cave encounters, but that was about it. the
vast vast majority of my exp came from trainers.
and i haven't even fought
all the npcs yet lol (which would likely have a similar effect to fighting a handful of wild pokemon, if not
greater). i'm saving them so i can get my third pokemon and train him/her against them. i went out of my way to
avoid fighting trainers in route 32.
2. actually, i told
Random Passerby that i'd be testing cyndaquil's ability to reach level 36 (inclusive of rare candies) by the chuck-jasmine-pryce part of the game, as part of a four-mon team. in fact, they personally told me that they ideally assume a four-mon team on the previous page.
3. i'm not playtesting poliwag himself or even any other pokemon i'm using. i'm playtesting
cyndaquil's ability to reach his final form by the point in the game as part of a four-mon team.
4.
however, if you're interested, i will point out that
getting poliwag with the old rod from the ruins of alph is perhaps the best way to do so - it comes around the same time as union cave, where he practically
decimates the npcs (minus the slowpoke guy) with bubble and eventually water gun, it comes at
level 10, and the only other pokemon you can encounter with the rod is magikarp, and i got poliwag on maybe my third encounter with the rod. raising the poliwag you pick up in route 30 would likely be harder, given the fact it has to wait a lot longer for water gun. poliwag can also be a great check to the rival's quilava and even croconaw, with water gun for the former and hypnosis shenanigans for the latter.
crystal only.
5. i'm genuinely surprised there isn't more info on how these calls work tbh. i checked bulbapedia, serebii, and youtube, but none of them really give the full answer (though youtube
is how i found out that you can call people for rematches on specific days and times). that's kind of strange given that this game is actually like early 2000s or so lol. speaking of which, i'm also trying to use my current run to find out how pokegear rematches really work and the earliest point i can acquire tm fire blast for cyndaquil. the way gsc is designed makes me wonder sometimes...
i'm not convinced that seven rare candies wouldn't benefit other pokémon better than it would benefit typhlosion either, even if we go by that argument
you have to remember that return (the best move in the game) is boosted by friendship, which itself is boosted by level-ups. i could catch a lv30 ursaring (which is much higher leveled than quilava will be at that point of the game) with the friend ball as soon as i defeat morty for example, and it'll benefit significantly from seven level-ups because of how badge boosts work (Return has essentially 219 BST after STAB and Pink Bow):
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 27 Primeape: 133-157 (137.1 - 161.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 30 Poliwrath: 91-108 (75.2 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 27 Seel: 137-162 (141.2 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 29 Dewgong: 104-123 (88.1 - 104.2%) -- 28.2% chance to OHKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 31 Piloswine: 90-106 (68.7 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 30 Magnemite: 56-66 (68.2 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Return vs. Lvl 35 Steelix: 22-27 (16.9 - 20.7%) -- possible 5HKO
(if you defeated Pryce before and equip Charcoal:)
Lvl 37 Ursaring Fire Punch vs. Lvl 30 Magnemite: 83-98 (101.2 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 37 Ursaring Fire Punch vs. Lvl 35 Steelix: 66-78 (50.7 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
in comparison, Typhlosion lv36
(assuming Magnet equipped if Thunder Punch, Charcoal equipped if Fire Punch)
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Fire Punch vs. Lvl 27 Primeape: 59-70 (60.8 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Thunder Punch vs. Lvl 27 Primeape: 39-47 (40.2 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Fire Punch vs. Lvl 30 Poliwrath: 22-27 (18.1 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Thunder Punch vs. Lvl 30 Poliwrath: 62-74 (51.2 - 61.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Thunder Punch vs. Lvl 27 Seel: 79-94 (81.4 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Thunder Punch vs. Lvl 29 Dewgong: 61-72 (51.6 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(assuming Pryce is defeated, too)
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Fire Punch vs. Lvl 30 Magnemite: 148-174 (180.4 - 212.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 36 Typhlosion Fire Punch vs. Lvl 35 Steelix: 117-138 (90 - 106.1%) -- 38.5% chance to OHKO
free level ups also benefit mons in the slow level-up group, with special mention to the red gyarados
Lvl 37 Gyarados Return vs. Lvl 27 Primeape: 85-100 (87.6 - 103%) -- 20.5% chance to OHKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Return vs. Lvl 30 Poliwrath: 58-69 (47.9 - 57%) -- 91.3% chance to 2HKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Return vs. Lvl 27 Seel: 88-104 (90.7 - 107.2%) -- 46.2% chance to OHKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Return vs. Lvl 29 Dewgong: 67-79 (56.7 - 66.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Return vs. Lvl 31 Piloswine: 62-74 (47.3 - 56.4%) -- 86.8% chance to 2HKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Surf vs. Lvl 31 Piloswine: 102-120 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(assuming Mystic Water and Pryce is defeated)
Lvl 30 Magnemite Thunderbolt vs. Lvl 37 Gyarados: 112-132 (77.2 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Surf vs. Lvl 30 Magnemite in Rain: 84-99 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Lvl 37 Gyarados Surf vs. Lvl 35 Steelix in Rain: 132-156 (101.5 - 120%) -- guaranteed OHKO
this is without taking into consideration that typhlosion has received experience from generic trainers post-surf, whereas the red gyarados and ursaring are freshly caught. the difference would be exacerbated if ursaring or gyarados had been trained similarly
great find! perhaps i've been underestimating those other mons lol. the problem, however, is that
all of those mons - like it or not - appear later in the game. these mons also need a lot more training even
outside of rare candies (both because they come at relatively low levels
and because they need a lot of experience to grow). raising them from like
level 13 (my cyndaquil reached level 14
even before fighting falkner, in comparison, and i focused
almost exclusively on trainer battles) to level 30 is gonna take a while. this means you will have to grind them somewhere.
and grinding them somewhere
will come at the expense of other pokemon, as this is the point where the level curve starts getting terrible. add the rare candies to that and ultimately you're making
bigger sacrifices for them than i would be for typhlosion.
even inclusive of rare candies, a level 14 quilava
in the early game needs fewer experience points to hit l40 than a level 14 tauros
in the middle game. i might be wrong about this, and i'd appreciate if someone could do the calculation for me, but this seems fair given their exp groups.
also,
very quick update: i got rematched by youngster joey the
third time,
and his rattata is now at level 15.
i still haven't beaten whitney yet, i just got the trade spearow for my third team member and am now grinding him against trainers i skipped before.
also...i didn't get a hp up. :(
(did bulbapedia and serebii lie?)
