Hail Stall

jaredz99

Hey, first post and I'm looking for a rate on my hail stall team(s). I'll put the four pokes that I've kept constant and then I'll put in all pokes that I've tried for the last two slots just so ya'll can see what I've been trying. Here goes :)

Frosty - Abomasnow@Leftovers
Ability - Snow Warning, Nature - Timid, EVs: 4 Def, 252 Spe, 252 SpA
Blizzard
Leech Seed
Substitute
Protect

SubSeed Abomasnow. Protect blocks Fake Out and scouts any threatening leads so I can choose my switch. I generally try to get substitute up as they SR or set up and then follow with a leech seed. Leech seed allows infinite stall (substitute-protect-substitute-protect etc.) but I normally go for that later in the game after toxic spikes are up. Obviously gets hail up as well.

Heavyweight - Machamp@Leftovers
Ability - No Guard, Nature - Adamant, EVs: 128 HP, 252 Atk, 128 Spe
Dynamicpunch
Stone Edge
Substitute
Payback

This guy has been up and down for me. He's here first and foremost as a Tyranitar counter, who otherwise rapes my team. Originally I ran RestTalk/Dynamic/Stone Edge but that wasn't doing much for me. Dynamic for damage and confusion, Stone Edge takes out flyers and other annoyances, Payback for ghosts (especially with good prediction on a switch). Being able to set up a substitute on a switch can be great as I decide what to do on the incoming poke.

Mammoth - Mamoswine@Life Orb
Ability - Snow Cloak, Nature - Adamant, EVs: 252 Atk, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Ice Shard
EQ
Body Slam
Stone Edge

Sweeper who does great in the hail. Ice Shard for priority, helpful for revenge KOing dragon or flying types (especially DDers). EQ is a hard-hitting STAB, Stone Edge is for coverage although it's replaceable I guess. The last slot is where I've had some trouble, I put Body Slam in but I've never actually used it, if anyone has some ideas for a useful move I'm open to suggestions.

Stallrein - Walrein@Leftovers
Ability - Ice Body, Nature - Bold, EVs: 252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpA
Protect
Substitute
Roar
Blizzard

Ah, the glorious Stallrein. Here's a URL for in-depth info. http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28213
I've been considering Surf because I've run into some trouble with Walrein as my last or second-to-last pokemon running out of Blizzard PP. This guy has pulled some amazing stalls, most notably sweeping 6-0 several times and saving me down 4 pokes as my last guy. Infinite stall with substitute-protect chain is lots of fun but it requires toxic spikes down which is where the other pokes become so important.

This is where I've had lots of trouble, on the last two slots. I've used 2 combinations, Nidoqueen/Starmie and Tentacruel/Gengar. For both I need someone for Toxic Spikes, a rapid spinner, a fighting-type counter and preferably a good attacker. Also T-Bolt for bulky waters and Gyarados would be preferred.

Queen Nido - Nidoqueen@Leftovers
Ability - Poison Point, Nature - Relaxed, EVs: 252 HP, 4 Atk, 252 Def
Toxic Spikes
Roar
EQ
Fire Blast

Support Nidoqueen. This is my generic switch to physical fighting types, then I either EQ or get a toxic spikes on the switch. EQ is STAB, Fire Blast is coverage and Roar is to shuffle Toxic and scout. I'm willing to sacrifice this guy, the main goal is to get down 2 layers of toxic spikes to make my stall much more effective. Unfortunately I've had some trouble with this guy coming out very early and getting KOed, any rapid spin makes stalling difficult.

Starfish - Starmie@Leftovers
Ability - Natural Cure, Nature - Timid, EVs: 252 HP, 4 Def, 252 Spe
Rapid Spin
Surf
T-Bolt
Psychic

This is my rapid spinner and fighting counter on this combination. I may be asking for a bit much out of this guy which has been my only trouble, often he's not durable enough to get through all his jobs which is why I have leftovers. Rapid Spin is to get very annoying SR out of the way. Psychic is specifically for fighting types and also STAB power, Surf is coverage with STAB and thunderbolt helps on many bulky waters and especially Gyarados.


The other combo is Tentacruel/Gengar
FSM - Tentacruel@Black Sludge
Ability - Liquid Ooze, Nature - Calm, EVs: 252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 SpD
Rapid Spin
Toxic Spikes
Surf
Blizzard

This fills my rapid spin and toxic spikes needs as well as providing a switch to fire types. Fire leads such as infernape and heatran get a protect to scout and then this switch. I usually go for toxic spikes as they switch, or surf if I feel i need to. That's his first job, he comes out after one or two toxic spikes and then comes back in later to spin away any SR that comes up. He's expendable, I'm willing to sacrifice to get my spikes down or get a spin off.

Shadow - Gengar@Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability - Levitate, Nature - Timid, EVs: 4 Def, 252 Spe, 252 SpA
Focus Blast
Psychic
Shadow Ball
T-Bolt

Spin blocker and fighting counter. I haven't been able to choose the item, obviously it makes a big difference, I'm not great at using choice items but I'm willing to if its more effective. Shadow Ball is for other psychics/ghosts, psychic is for fighting types, T-Bolt is for gyarados and bulky waters, focus blast is coverage but I'm willing to sub it for hypnosis or something.


Any rate is appreciated. Places I've had trouble have been mostly steel types like Scizor and Metagross, the lack of any fire moves other than on Nidoqueen has been a problem there. Also the fact that loss of toxic spikes makes stalling with Walrein difficult has lost me some battles.

Edit: Some things I've been thinking of:
Wood Hammer instead of Protect on Abomasnow for better help on water types
Sleep Talk over Body Slam on Mamoswine (no rest) for a status absorber
 
I am going to rate this as a 4 gen team so if it is 5 gen sorry. First off nidoqueen and starmie have been to be very successful. So i would use them. Now if you want to do better against other stall teams use tentacruel and Gengar, except use explosion on gengar with life orb.
Next Mamoswine is not the most useful pokemon on stall. I know it does a great job of revenging threats, but on stall you do not want to be in a position where you need to ever revenge anything that has recieved boosts. i would use a rest talker phaser, but then this would turn into Lady bugs Hail Stall team. To try somthing different than that you could try snorlax. Here's the set.

Snorlax @ leftovers
EV's 252 HP 252 Careful 4 Att
Nature Careful
Rest
Whirlwind
Pursuit
Body Slam

I am not to sure about Machamp, but would not really know what to do with him other. Good Luck with the team. Hope you like my rate.
 
Yeah it is 4th gen, sorry. Couple of thoughts on removing Mamoswine. At the moment he's my only reliable counter to Breloom and DDers, because even if they drop one person Ice Shard KOs them. I feel removing him makes me incredibly weak to a DDTar, DD Dragonite or even DD Kingdra. Also it might be that I just don't know how to deal with Breloom but he always takes out a poke against me unless I'm lucky enough to have a substitute up. That Snorlax does look appealing though.
Oh, and Machamp is important as a TTar counter, otherwise he basically rips me to shreds.
 
Nidoqueen, should be able to beat TTar pretty easily unless you come in on an EQ. You are missing a ground resist oout side of Abomasnow, which would be a bad idea to switch into TTar. So maybe replacing Mamoswine with a Scarfgon could work, but their are issues with trying that. But if you feel that you are weak to DD's Scarfgon stops just about all of them. If Breloom is a fear try Resttalk on Nidoqueen. Fire Blast and Toxic Spikes would be the other two moves. Same EVs.
 
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