Hail Team Help

[candystar]

Hi I made a hail based team for the overused category and was wondering if anyone else sees a problem and if they could help me find some counters to it. This is a Shoddy Battle team too.

Lead: Abomasnow (Male)
Ability: Snow Warning
Nature: Brave
EV: 252HP/ 252Atk/ 4Def
Item: Leftovers
Moveset: Blizzard, Earthquake, Iron Tail, Wood Hammer

Abomasnow is the obvious lead because of Snow Warning but other than that I just find him pretty much useless. His massive attacking power is useful but he pretty much dies after hitting the enemies' lead. How can I make him more useful later on?

Stall: Walrein (Female)
Ability: Ice Body
Nature: Lonely
EV: 252HP/ 252SpA/ 6Def
Item: Leftovers
Moveset: Aqua Ring, Blizzard, Super Fang, Substitute

Walrein is a really useful asset to my team. She sets up Aqua Ring and Substitute, and she's staying on the field for some time with the help of Hail, Ice Body, and Leftovers. Super Fang is a little shaky with the accuracy issue but it cuts down problems in half and Blizzard finishes enemies off. I don't really have a problem with her but if you can help me find some weaknesses that would really help.

Physical Attacker: Mamoswine (Male)
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Adamant
EV: 252HP/ 252 Atk/ 6Def
Item: Muscle Band
Moveset: Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Stone Edge, Superpower

Mamoswine can handle himself but setting Stealth Rock or attacking the enemy is a big problem for me. He covers most weaknesses to Ice types such as Fire and Steel but Fighting pokemon can be a little tricky. He's not fast but he can take a hit or two. Definitely physical walls are the problem but also fighting pokemon, ones who I can't rely on their weakness to take them down.

Perish Trapper: Jynx (Female)
Ability: Forewarn
Nature: Bold
EV: 252Spe/ 252 SpD/ 6Def
Item: Leftovers
Moveset: Attract, Mean Look, Perish Song, Seismic Toss

Jynx is an amazing part of my team. Since most pokemon I face are males, Attract does its job and keeps boys in love with Jynx. Then Perish Song and Mean Look, this works fantastic because most battles that I've done I was able to set up. Unfortunately, she is fragile and unable to take fast hits. I rely on Attract to help me here, but do you think it's much of a gamble to keep her?

Kamikaze: Froslass (Female)
Ability: Snow Cloak
Nature: Timid
EV: 252 Spe/ 252 SpD/ 6HP
Item: Brightpowder
Moveset: Shadow Ball, Spikes, Destiny Bond, Thunder Wave

Froslass is easy to use. I use her to set up Spikes, infect Thunder Wave, or as kamikaze and use Destiny Bond if I can't beat the enemy. She does her job fine and Snow Cloak along with Brightpowder allows me to use Thunder Wave or Spikes on strong enemies but it can be risky. So Should I keep her and fulfill her role or change her role and position in the team?

Physical Sweeper: Weavile (Female)
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Adamant
EV: 252 Spe/ 252Atk/ 6HP
Item: Muscle Band
Moveset: Brick Break, Night Slash, Poison Jab, X-Scissor

Weavile is probably the most safest pokemon that I rely on. I don't use her to kill herself or set risky moves but she is fragile nonetheless. Her role is shared with Mamoswine but she has a lot more type coverage than Mamoswine and also a lot more faster. I was also torn between choosing Life Orb or Muscle Band since I don't wan't her to die a little after every hit and be so predictable.


As a Team:
Pro: Not a lot of teams have specific counters in their teams for each pokemon in my team. I use the Hail to my advantage as should any weather-based team. Pelting enemies every turn cancels the use of Leftovers or provides a much quicker death.

Con: I don't pretty much care about weaknesses since Jynx and Froslass are fast enough to get rid of them but Bullet Punch annoys me to death, I lost several matches due to Bullet Punch. That is where I need help to countering.

 

[GrimHawke]

Yeah, I see a huge problem.
Hail teams are generally focused on stalling, but your team uses 6 ice pokemon. While ice is a great type offensively, it has some of the worst weaknesses in the game, notably steel, rock, fighting and fire, all common types.

There is no reason to use all ice types, so you should just rework your team starting from Abomasnow and Walrein.

 

[candystar]

I haven't really noticed the that hail teams are used for stalling, but can you list pokemon that can 6-0 my team out or anything close to it. Pls. Thx

 

[GrimHawke]

Scizor, the rare bullet punch Lucario, scarf Heatran, bulky DD Gyarados, Sub Machamp.
All of those can take out half of your team each, easily.

 

[candystar]

Yea those do pose a lot of threat, especially Bullet Punch. Thankies =)

 

[Hamme Van]

Make Abomasnow this set, I think it will not be as much dead weight as your previous set:

Abomasnow @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Adamant 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
-Swords Dance
-Ice Shard
-Wood Hammer / Seed Bomb
-Earthquake

Your first set was running a -speed nature, now I know that Abomasnow is slow and probably not outspeed anything but min speed Suicune and Milotic, but you never know. It would just be better to lower a stat that you know for a fact will not hurt you. This set also will have more power and could pull a late game sweep with a SD Ice Shard. Swords Dance will bring Abomasnow's attack to a sky-high Attack of 622. Ice Shard is for STAB and priority, because Abomasnow needs a way to hit faster opponents (the entire tier). It will also get some notable 2KOs on Azelf and Rotom, as well as OHKOs on the 4x Ice weak Dragons. Wood Hammer is a OHKO on physical walls that are weak to it Hippowdon, Suicune etc. But LO Damage and Wood Hammer recoil will make Abomasnow last .02 seconds so use Seed Bomb if you use LO and Wood Hammer if you want Leftovers. Earthquake is for the Steels and Fires that can wall and/or threaten you with a STAB attack.

Overall this does look like a solid offensive Hail team, good RMT, and good luck on your future posting and laddering!

 

[GrimHawke]

The reason Abomasnow should have a -Spe nature is that if two weather creating pokemon are sent out at the same time, take Abomasnow and Tyranitar, the slower pokemon's weather takes effect.

 

[rvrstar12]

my hail team consists of gliscor, walrein, rotom, abomasnow, tentacruel, and moltres... not all your pokes have to be ice type...my team only has 2...also...if your team is a hail team...why arent you abusing the chance to have a 100% accurate blizzard?

 

[Joey [old]]

my hail team consists of gliscor, walrein, rotom, abomasnow, tentacruel, and moltres... not all your pokes have to be ice type...my team only has 2...also...if your team is a hail team...why arent you abusing the chance to have a 100% accurate blizzard?

Previously, I was going to bring up that exact point: a free Blizzard per Pokemon. Of course, then I stopped being niave and recalled that not every Pokemon is Special Attack based.

The biggest highlight of your team seems to be your Weavile.
Although this may seem rather unorthodox at the moment, I am proposing that you have a non-Ice type in your team (preferably, a Special Attack-based Pokemon with Blizzard! Haha!) that can be a definite switch-in to Steel- and Fire-type attacks. Vaguely, I am thinking of Pokemon along the lines of Vaporeon.

 

[teajello]

Your team has some serious problems.

Scizor, the rare bullet punch Lucario, scarf Heatran, bulky DD Gyarados, Sub Machamp.
All of those can take out half of your team each, easily.

First, I have to strongly disagree with this.

Scizor, the rare bullet punch Lucario, scarf Heatran, bulky DD Gyarados, Sub Machamp, DD Mence, DD Nite, Lead Gross, Mix Ape, Subpunching Breloom.
All of those can take out your entire team, very easily.

Now that's more like it.

Now I'm not saying you have a bad idea. If you vie for monotype even though, you'd get your butt kicked. (No offense)
Right now, you have 5 fire, 4 fighting, 3 bug, 5 rock, and 5 steel weaknesses. Now you have one fighting immunity so you're kind of okay with that but anything carrying stone edge, fire blast, bullet punch, and hell even signal beam would rip through your team as if it was single ply tissue. I kind of want to see where you're going with this team. Although some sets you have seem heavy offensive, your Frosslass, Jynx, and Walrein sets, heavily dilutes your sweeping effectiveness. Now on with the rate!



Abomasnow----------

Aboma-huh? It seems you're running mixed on Abomasnow and really with seven weaknesses, no priority ice shard, and lowered speed, you won't be surviving one turn against anything. The set Hamme Van provided is a good alternative if you want to keep up your offensive prowess as with Ice Shard, Abomasnow may be able to nab some free kills against weakened Mence. The problem with the SD set is that Abomasnow will rarely have a chance to set up unless you switch into an unlucky electric type or crocune as Zapdos and Jolteon almost always have Heat Wave and Super Effective Hidden Power respectively. If you want more stalling and in my opinion, better survivability and synergy, try the subseeding set I personally use on my hail stall.

Abomasnow @ Leftovers
Bold 252 Def / 252 SpD
- Leech Seed
- Substitute
- Protect
- Blizzard

Blizzard behind substitute works wonders and should you find one of your pokes in a bind you can seed them and switch for possible healing. That scenario is a bit far fetched maybe but it works great at situational moments. Lastly, after a Leech Seed, protect and sub acts the same way Stallrein does but perhaps even more reliable with additional leech seed recovery with the sacrifice of having to set up for a turn. Also, Blizzard helps annihilate things you can't leech seed.

Walrein----------

As for Walrein, it really hurts Walrein not to have protect as you won't be able to stall for half as long without it. The amazing Stallrein requires both Substitute and Protect to function effectively. Try this set:

Walrein @ Leftovers
Relaxed 252 HP / 158 Def / 100 SpD
- Substitute
- Protect
- Surf / Blizzard / Super Fang
- Aqua Ring / Toxic / Roar

It's a little less than standard as the HP EVs are more than 220 but that is because you vie for Aqua Ring. With Aqua Ring, you don't need to worry about not healing 25% every two turns as it effectively nets you 36% every two turns. The attack move prevents tauntage but in reality if you have a choice, you should always switch when taunted. If you choose Toxic or Roar over Aqua Ring, you'll need 220 HP EVs instead. Pump the rest into SpD. As for the high amount of Def: With the metagame nowadays, you'll find yourself switching into physical sweepers much more often than special ones. The amount isn't really for any particular reason other than I got lazy EV training mine in HGSS and decided to pump him full of vitamins for SpD. I have found however, it functions well, allowing Walrein to take many physical attacks and still sub up. Relaxed ensures you sub last and no slower opponent will break your stalling spree.

Mamoswine----------

I have always found Mamoswine too slow for my tastes and with it being ice typed and packing so many weaknesses, I have always found it unreliable as a sweeper. However, I have heard many good thing about it so if you vie for one that's fine. The only thing is you need Ice Shard. Mamoswine, being slow and full of typing holes will be able to kill the common dragons only with priority. It is very important to put Ice Shard into its moveset. As to what you would replace, that's up to you as long as you keep stone edge as it provides excellent coverage overall.

Jynx----------

Jynx is really bringing you down, giving you that extra bug weakness you really don't need and not bringing enough power to your team. Attract doesn't work because as you've said, she is unable to take hits. You have to take 3 turns to set up your perish trap and really if you can't take a hit, you don't have 3 turns. Scrap Jynx and replace it with something to cover your Scizor weakness. Scarftran takes Scizors down no sweat and keeps you on the offensive by adding another powerful revenge killer to your team but if you don't want to vie for one, you can always try Tentacruel for an effective and reliable spinner that can also provide Toxic Spikes support. Standard Scarftran would do fine.

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Naive / Rash 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Explosion
- Hidden Power Grass
(Taken directly from Strategydex and edited for what I believe are your teams major needs. xD)


Or if you vie for a Tentacruel, here's the one I use.


Tentacruel @ Leftovers
Calm 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SpD
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Toxic / Knock Off / Blizzard / Sludge Bomb / HP Fire Etc.?

This is the Tentacruel set I personally use. Toxic on the last slot may seem redundant but it helps me with my DD Gyaras weakness that my Tenta can usually take a hit from. Normally, it'd be better to vie for something else. Knock Off is always fun. I really don't think you need Blizzard though. Sludge Bomb is a strong STAB but with crappy coverage. Tentas wall Scizors pretty well too so HP Fire is there for that although usually Scizors switch out against Tentacruel so that might be a more lacking option.

Frosslass----------

Frosslass is not the best spinblocker due to its frailty. Try Rotom-H or Dusknoir even. These sets can be found in the strategydex. If you want to keep Frosslass however, it can function well to some degree. First of all, I think Frosslass being as frail as it is, doesn't need any SpD EVs. Scrap that. Your Frosslass seems rather gimmicky as well. However, being as fast as it is, I can see how Destiny Bonding would work at times. This is ultimately your choice but if you ever end up for a bulkier set remember that it has pain split, very useful for healing off damage.

Weavile----------

Weavile... I have one on my team actually but it's also not the best choice. Scarftran can fill its position so much better since you already have Mamo to Ice Shard incoming dragons. The thing I use Weavile for is simply shutting down Azelf and Aerodactyl leads after breaking their sash with a fake out from my lead. I vied for an SD version as usually Weaviles are way too weak without proper SR and maybe even Spikes support to sweep a whole team. Endgame however, Weavile can easily sweep across 4 pokes after an SD. You don't need to vie for an SD set but I'm curious as to why you don't have Ice Shard or Ice Punch. Ice Shard is great for DD Mence after SR damage as it can't touch you despite its increased speed. As I've said, you already have Mamo for that so instead you might switch this to Scarftran. Please drop muscle band for life orb. With something as frail as Weavile, not getting that extra 20% could mean instant death. You might also vie for a choice band or even scarf (for taking down Scarftrans though that's all they're really good for so you might want to keep away unless you can't find a suitable counter.)

Weavile @ Life Orb
Jolly 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Swords Dance
- Night Slash
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick

or for the Choice Bander

Weavile @ Choice Band
Jolly 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Pursuit
- Ice Shard
- Low Kick
- Aerial Ace

I really found aerial ace super useful for taking out weakened Machamps when I used to have a choice bander. As for the Choice Scarfer, just reply if you want a set because I really don't think you should Scarf it because you lose too much power unless you find it absolutely necessary to counter Scarftran.



That was super long wow. My longest rate up to date probably. That's probably because I'm always so nitpicky and worked up over hail teams. Well good luck! I hope my rate helped!

EDIT: Abomasnow may not be the best lead. Sorry I forgot to go into detail with that during my rate but Mamo or Heatran (not scarfed duh) or even Weavile can make a better lead. I find Weavile to be a pretty effective anti-lead actually effectively shutting down Azelf and Aerodactyl, two very common ones. Other than that though not much it can do so Mamo or Heatran probably.

 

[candystar]

Wowee that was long but it sure helped, thanks! I'll try what you said even taking Jynx off my team =( but either way you do have a point. And Abomasnow as a lead, I finally know why he dies so quickly, enemy leads are commonly Skarmory, Heatran and some other powerhouse pokemon so that's why he gets chomped on. There's a lot more I can cover but thanks a lot for your help!