XY OU Happy [Building Around Manaphy]

[Evilfaic]

the manaphy in the movie said happy a lot i couldn't think of a better title :I

I recently watched this movie again and felt like building around Manaphy. I was actually pretty impressed at how well this team ended up performing, so I turned it into my current main team.

Team Building Process

Of course I started out with Manaphy, my sweeper.

I wanted to cover Manaphy's weaknesses to Electric and Grass as well as add a hazard-setter to the team. Ferrothorn was a natural choice.

I wanted a Scarfer, and my team lacked a Fighting resist, so I chose Scarf Landorus-T. A Volt Switch immunity is also nice.

I wanted a status-inducer, phazer, and Ice-resistor for Lando, and Heatran fit this description perfectly.

The core of the team was pretty solid at this point. A Defogger is always nice, so I added Latios. Latios also acts as a late-game cleaner.

Now came the Mega, and I chose Heracross, a Wallbreaker with great coverage.

Horizon (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Rock Slide
- U-turn

Scarf Landorus-T is a great mon this meta. He helps me deal with Mega Char X, as well as providing much-needed momentum in the form of U-turn. EQ hits like a truck, and deals with Char X and Heatran, two amazing mons in this meta. Knock Off is nice for the obvious item removal, but it's also a huge slap in the face to the Lati twins, Gengar, and Mew. Rock Slide nabs Talonflame, Togekiss, and Char Y. Lastly, there's U-turn, which provides momentum. I am tempted to switch this to a physically defensive set with SR (and Heatran to a Scarf set with AncientPower) just because Talonflame is such a huge problem, but I like Scarf because it outpaces Greninja, a huge threat to the team.

Spines (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect?
- Stealth Rock?

Ah, Ferro. Ferro gets me through so many tough spots. EVs let me not get 3HKO'd by +3 Manaphy's Ice Beam (very specific, I know, but I want a reason to invest in SpDef). Running Power Whip this time because there's no point in walling Rotom-W when I can't hit it back. Leech Seed + Protect in conjunction with Lefties gives me great, annoying, reliable recovery. Rocks are cool too because screw Talonflame. NOTE: Needs to be worked out.

Kelvin (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast?
- Ancient Power?
- Substitute?
- Toxic

I haven't used Heatran too much, especially the SubToxic set, but from what I have used of it on this team, it's a monster. Leftovers > Air Balloon because Air Balloon is, honestly, too situational, and Leftovers at least give Heatran recovery, something it desperately wants. Fire Blast does tend to miss, but it provides extra power, and since I'm Toxicing everything anyways, Lava Plume isn't necessary (although I'm considering Magma Storm). Sub allows me to scout for EQ, as well as use Heatran's typing to my advantage. NOTE: Needs to be worked out.

Alto Mare (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog

Offensive Defog Latios, used as a late-game cleaner. I usually don't have too much to say about this mon; he's pretty straight-forward. Dragon Pulse hits a lot of things, Psyshock hits pink blobs and Fighting-types. HP Fire 2HKOs Ferro and Scizor. Defog gets rid of hazards, which actually aren't that big of a problem for my team on paper, but copious amounts of switching wear my mons down fast.

Happy (Manaphy) @ Wacan Berry
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow

The star of the team, Manaphy. After a boost, Manaphy just blows through everything. Another pretty straight-forward mon. Surf for reliable STAB, Energy Ball and Ice Beam for coverage, and Tail Glow to give me that beautiful one-turn +3. I am considering running HP Fire to better deal with Ferrothorn, probably over Energy Ball. Don't think I'll end up doing that, though, as Energy Ball hits Rotom-W. Wacan Berry allows me to better deal with Thundurus and Rotom-W.

Herculeo (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance

And finally we come to the Mega: Heracross. Mega Heracross is truly terrifying. All these multi-hit moves are a slap in the face to Sub users. Bug, Fighting, and Rock provide amazing coverage. Pin Missle, well...

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 185-225 (50.8 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and that's assuming it's fully Physically Defensive. CC destroys the pink blobs and OHKO's Rotom-W after SD. Rock Blast nabs Talon on the switch-in if I can predict correctly, which has happened a few times (and it was glorious), and it covers Gengar, Togekiss, and Dnite. EVs outspeed things that outspeed Jolly Azu (holy pile of speed creep, Batman!). After an SD boost, Heracross pretty much 2HKO's the metagame.

Threats:

Greninja - Assuming this thing has the right coverage, it can tear apart my team.
Talonflame - This thing still threatens the team, seeing as my 2 sweepers don't appreciate taking Brave Birds.
Rotom-W - A bitch to kill without Bullet Seed on Hera, but Ferro and Wacan Manaphy help keep it in check.
Conkeldurr - Mainly the AV set. Ice Punch for Lando, Drain Punch for Ferro, Knock Off for Latios. It's dangerous.

Importable

WILL UPDATE WHEN TEAM IS WORKED OUT

Advice is appreciated, and feel free to try the team yourself! Just don't go around claiming it's yours ;)

 

[blinkie]

Hi, nice team based around Manaphy.
However, I would suggest Close Combat > Arm Thrust on Heracross, Close Combat has 120 BP vs 75 BP for Arm Thrust, the extra power is simply way too valuable on a wallbreaker like Heracross. Also I'm pretty sure on something like Ferro you'll take the Iron Barbs damage 5 times...if it runs Rocky Helmet your basically dead. If you want to break subs, Rock Blast can break Cube's subs, while Pin Missile breaks pretty much everything else's subs.
Have you considered Will-O-Wisp > Toxic on Heatran? It is a nice move burning stuff like Garchomp, Excadrill, etc who think they get to EQ you. Simply hit them on the switch, and then you can go into something like Manaphy for a free turn of setup.
Speaking of Manaphy, Life Orb does not get any important OHKOs or 2HKOs iirc so maybe you could run lefties instead. Just throwing that suggestion out there, if there is something that you need LO to hit, disregard this. BTW IMO it is better to run Energy Ball that way you aren't walled by Quag or Rotom-W.
Other than these your team should be fine, you have decent answers to BirdSpam in Lando-T and Heatran, but if BirdSpam gives you problems change Lando-T to a bulky pivot set with SR, and run ScarfTran.

 

[Evilfaic]

Hi, nice team based around Manaphy.
However, I would suggest Close Combat > Arm Thrust on Heracross, Close Combat has 120 BP vs 75 BP for Arm Thrust, the extra power is simply way too valuable on a wallbreaker like Heracross. Also I'm pretty sure on something like Ferro you'll take the Iron Barbs damage 5 times...if it runs Rocky Helmet your basically dead. If you want to break subs, Rock Blast can break Cube's subs, while Pin Missile breaks pretty much everything else's subs.
Have you considered Will-O-Wisp > Toxic on Heatran? It is a nice move burning stuff like Garchomp, Excadrill, etc who think they get to EQ you. Simply hit them on the switch, and then you can go into something like Manaphy for a free turn of setup.
Speaking of Manaphy, Life Orb does not get any important OHKOs or 2HKOs iirc so maybe you could run lefties instead. Just throwing that suggestion out there, if there is something that you need LO to hit, disregard this. BTW IMO it is better to run Energy Ball that way you aren't walled by Quag or Rotom-W.
Other than these your team should be fine, you have decent answers to BirdSpam in Lando-T and Heatran, but if BirdSpam gives you problems change Lando-T to a bulky pivot set with SR, and run ScarfTran.

Good point about CC, I'll definitely switch that.
The reason I run Toxic > Will-O is because Lava Plume already has the burn chance, and Toxic is useful for racking up damage and preventing stuff from staying in for too long.
And I'll test Lefties on Manaphy, which I'll probably end up switching to permanently.

Thanks for the advice :)

 

[Dr Ciel]

Hi there.

This is a pretty cool team, utilizing an underrated threat in Tail Glow Manaphy & a very dangerous threat in Heracross Mega, so a really great synergistic team you have here, so props for all of that. However, there are some flaws in this team that I can see, so I'll try to make some improvements to help better this team. All that said, let's get right into my rate. First off, I would like to suggest running a Sub Toxic Heatran over your current Heatran set. This set utilizes Heatrans great defensive typing in order to set up a Substitute & spread status while also dealing out some heavy damage. Sub Toxic Heatran also functions as a third Special Attacker for your team, which is always nice. Next, I would like to make the recommendation of running a Wacan Berry over Leftovers on your Manaphy. Wacan Berry halves the damage from a super-effective Electric type attack, which is absolutely huge for Manaphy, as it can now bypass Thundurus, who would OHKO it otherwise. I would also suggest running a spread of 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe over your current spread on it. This allows Manaphy to take one extra hit from the after-mentioned Thundurus. Finally, run Swords Dance over Bullet Seed on Heracross. Swords Dance is an absolutely amazing move that gives you another solid win condition.

Heatran

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
- Substitute
- Toxic
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power

TL;DR

Heatran

: Current Set ----------------------------> Sub Toxic

Manaphy

:

Leftovers ----------------------------> Wacan Berry

Current EV Spread ----------------------------> 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe

Heracross

: Bullet Seed ----------------------------> Swords Dance

Good Luck!

 

[Evilfaic]

Cinco Diablo Thundurus has been a bit of a problem. I'll try out Wacan, but I think I'll keep the EV spread as is. For Heatran, I'm thinking of running AncientPower > EP just to get rid of Talon and Mega Char Y. Sub Toxic with that spread sound nice though (I was actually considering Sub before). SD sounds nice on Hera, I'll test it out. Bullet Seed is nice for Rotom-W:

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 280-340 (92.1 - 111.8%) -- approx. 68.8% chance to OHKO

but Pin Missle and CC easily 2HKO the physically defensive set (which is usually what's running around).

Thanks for the advice, man.

EDIT: What does 244+ speed on Tran outspeed? Best I've found is 240+ outspeeding 252+ base 75's (and Mega Hera/Klefki are the only notable ones).

 

[Dr Ciel]

244 Speed & Timid outruns Adamant Excadrill outside of sandstorm.

 

[Evilfaic]

Update: Wacan Berry has been amazing, allowing me to set up a Tail Glow on Rotom-W safely. Changing Gyro Ball back to Power Whip on Ferro because Rotom-W is still a huge problem, and now I can actually damage it with the thing that walls it. Thankfully, Hera can OHKO Rotom-W with Pin Missle or CC after an SD boost. Talonflame is still a problem due to Heatran getting worn down, and my 2 sweepers not being able to take a Brave Bird all that well:

252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Manaphy: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The only way I kill Talon is with either a well-predicted Rock Blast from Hera or Heatran's surprise Ancient Power. Haven't actually run into too many Greninja, and they weren't running HP Fire, so that wasn't a problem for Ferro (although it did get frozen one time).

Another new problem is Conkeldurr. It has coverage for basically my whole team. The only thing saving me from its wrath is Mega Heracross:

+2 252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 586-691 (141.5 - 166.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

God, I love Mega Hera. Like Manaphy, after a boost it just kills everything. Only thing holding that back is Talonflame, which brings us back to the previous paragraph of this post ;-;

 

[Dokkerich]

If Talonflame is a problem it could help to change lando-T to a defensive set and make Heatran your scarfer. You could keep Landos moveset or give it SR allowing Ferro to run both Gyroball and Power whip allowing it to ohko mega gardevoir

 

[TheEnder]

Hey there DFB3636, here is the rate i promised :) This is actually a really cool and seemingly good team, so I'll try not to change a lot of the team structure, but rather focus on EV spreads and sets n_n

Your defensive core of Ferrothorn and Heatran, coupled with a few checks to Fighting-types is very good, but I don't feel like your sets are optimized. With your current EV spreads your team will have a very hard time dealing with opposing Manaphy, LO Kyurem-B, stallbreaker Mew and Mega Gardevoir, even though you have the right pokes to take them on. Since you are already running some SpD on Ferro, I would advise you run enough to avoid the 2HKO from Manaphy's Ice Beam at +3 and Kyurem-B's Ice Beam after rocks, which makes its spread 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD with an Impish / Relaxed Nature. To patch up the weakness to Mew I'd suggest making Heatran specially defensive. What this lets you do is make it take a lot less from Knock Off on the switch, but also take on Gardevoir and Lati@s much better (they may run HP Fire for Ferrothorn). I would also move Stealth Rock from Ferrothorn to Heatran, and give Ferrothorn Spikes. This lets you pressure defensivsely orientated teams, making them easier to break for Manaphy. With your current set though, you will have a hard time breaking stall teams, becuase Cansey eats +6 Surf and can wear it down with Toxic or cripple it with Thunder Wave. Manaphy's offensive Rain Dance set is one of the best stallbreakers out there, and I think it would be a perfect fit for your team, seeing as how you already lure Ferrothorn with HP Fire Latios. The last changes I would suggest, is exchanging Defog for Roost on Latios as running Defog with the newly added Spikes would be redundant, give Landorus-T a little bit of investment in Defense to make it able to switch into Life Orb Excadrill in a pinch, and give Heracross a bit more speed to outspeed Adamant Bisharp.

Summary

Horizon (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 Def / 232 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn


Spines (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Impish / Relaxed Nature
- Power Whip / Gyro Ball
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Spikes


Kelvin (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Lava Plume
- Taunt / Roar / Protect
- Toxic


Alto Mare (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Roost


Happy (Manaphy) @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psychic
- Rain Dance
- Tail Glow


Herculeo (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance

 

[Cynara]

How often does Heracross get to setup? wouldn't substitute over Swords dance be better? this would allow it to beat any of heracross's notable checks and counters such as talonflame

 

[Evilfaic]

How often does Heracross get to setup? wouldn't substitute over Swords dance be better? this would allow it to beat any of heracross's notable checks and counters such as talonflame

tbh setting up with Mega Hera on a team that lacks Talonflame is pretty easy. I probably wouldn't run Sub; I'm not a huge fan of it on sets that aren't SubToxic. It would allow me to beat Talon way more reliably though, so I may test it a bit.

 

[Cynara]

tbh setting up with Mega Hera on a team that lacks Talonflame is pretty easy. I probably wouldn't run Sub; I'm not a huge fan of it on sets that aren't SubToxic. It would allow me to beat Talon way more reliably though, so I may test it a bit.

I see, I do admit Swords dance is useful on Mega hera, if it's given the oppertunity as it's more of a wall breaker, However I have found sub very useful. but none the less this an amazing team, Intersting to see a team that's actually built around manaphy these days

 

[TheRealMinimod]

Horizon (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Scarf Landorus-T is a great mon this meta. He helps me deal with Mega Char X, as well as providing much-needed momentum in the form of U-turn. EQ hits like a truck, and deals with Char X and Heatran, two amazing mons in this meta. Knock Off is nice for the obvious item removal, but it's also a huge slap in the face to the Lati twins, Gengar, and Mew. Stone Edge nabs Talonflame, Togekiss, and Char Y. Lastly, there's U-turn, which provides momentum. I am tempted to switch this to a physically defensive set with SR (and Heatran to a Scarf set with AncientPower) just because Talonflame is such a huge problem, but I like Scarf because it outpaces Greninja, a huge threat to the team.

Spines (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Ah, Ferro. Ferro gets me through so many tough spots. EVs let me not get 3HKO'd by +3 Manaphy's Ice Beam (very specific, I know, but I want a reason to invest in SpDef). Running Power Whip this time because there's no point in walling Rotom-W when I can't hit it back. Leech Seed + Protect in conjunction with Lefties gives me great, annoying, reliable recovery. Rocks are cool too because screw Talonflame.

Kelvin (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Ancient Power
- Substitute
- Toxic

I haven't used Heatran too much, especially the SubToxic set, but from what I have used of it on this team, it's a monster. Leftovers > Air Balloon because Air Balloon is, honestly, too situational, and Leftovers at least give Heatran recovery, something it desperately wants. Fire Blast does tend to miss, but it provides extra power, and since I'm Toxicing everything anyways, Lava Plume isn't necessary (although I'm considering Magma Storm). Sub allows me to scout for EQ, as well as use Heatran's typing to my advantage.

Alto Mare (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog

Offensive Defog Latios, used as a late-game cleaner. I usually don't have too much to say about this mon; he's pretty straight-forward. Dragon Pulse hits a lot of things, Psyshock hits pink blobs and Fighting-types. HP Fire 2HKOs Ferro and Scizor. Defog gets rid of hazards, which actually aren't that big of a problem for my team on paper, but copious amounts of switching wear my mons down fast.

Happy (Manaphy) @ Wacan Berry
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow

The star of the team, Manaphy. After a boost, Manaphy just blows through everything. Another pretty straight-forward mon. Surf for reliable STAB, Energy Ball and Ice Beam for coverage, and Tail Glow to give me that beautiful one-turn +3. I am considering running HP Fire to better deal with Ferrothorn, probably over Energy Ball. Don't think I'll end up doing that, though, as Energy Ball hits Rotom-W. Wacan Berry allows me to better deal with Thundurus and Rotom-W.

Herculeo (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Close Combat
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance

And finally we come to the Mega: Heracross. Mega Heracross is truly terrifying. All these multi-hit moves are a slap in the face to Sub users. Bug, Fighting, and Rock provide amazing coverage. Pin Missle, well...

252+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 185-225 (50.8 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

and that's assuming it's fully Physically Defensive. CC destroys the pink blobs and OHKO's Rotom-W after SD. Rock Blast nabs Talon on the switch-in if I can predict correctly, which has happened a few times (and it was glorious), and it covers Gengar, Togekiss, and Dnite. EVs outspeed things that outspeed Jolly Azu (holy pile of speed creep, Batman!). After an SD boost, Heracross pretty much 2HKO's the metagame.

Threats:

Greninja - Assuming this thing has the right coverage, it can tear apart my team.
Talonflame - This thing still threatens the team, seeing as my 2 sweepers don't appreciate taking Brave Birds.
Rotom-W - A bitch to kill without Bullet Seed on Hera, but Ferro and Wacan Manaphy help keep it in check.
Conkeldurr - Mainly the AV set. Ice Punch for Lando, Drain Punch for Ferro, Knock Off for Latios. It's dangerous.

Importable

Horizon (Landorus-Therian) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Spines (Ferrothorn) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpD
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Kelvin (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Ancient Power
- Substitute
- Toxic

Alto Mare (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Dragon Pulse
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Defog

Happy (Manaphy) @ Wacan Berry
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow

Herculeo (Heracross) (M) @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Pin Missile
- Arm Thrust
- Rock Blast
- Swords Dance

Advice is appreciated, and feel free to try the team yourself! Just don't go around claiming it's yours ;)

Landorus: I'd suggest running the more standard 140HP/156Atk/212Spe EV spread

Ferrothorn: Why not run Gyro Ball over Power Whip, since Rotom-W use is on the decline. If Rotom-W is that much of a problem keep it.

Latios: Draco over Dragon Pulse would make it be more effective as a late game cleaner.

Manaphy: Run Scald over Surf for that nice burn chance

Heracross: Close Combat>Arm Thurst as ZZtrollZZ said

 

[blinkie]

I think TheEnder had a pretty good rate. I would keep most of his sets, besides his Ferrothorn one. Keep his EV spread, but Spikes stacking IMO is pretty bad this gen you can set it up all you want, Latios comes in and just Defogs all of them anyway, especially seeing that you don't really have that much that can punish it like Bisharp...
Therefore I would recommend Thunder Wave>Spikes on Ferrothorn. Thunder Wave offers valuable speed control, which is really helpful for your two sweepers Manaphy and Heracross, as they are both held back by their somewhat mediocre speed. Of course Thunder Wave+Gyro Ball is bad, so I would suggest Power Whip > Gyro Ball as it takes out Rotom-W, and Sub DD Gyarados which is actually kind of dangerous, while Rotom-W is a threat for your team, so I would suggest you use Power Whip.

Also Latios IMO doesn't have the bulk to use Roost/Recover, I think it would be better off with just Defog > Roost as first of all this kind of role is better suited to Latias, while also since you no longer have spikes you probably will still need a form of hazard removal against random stuff like web.

Other than that, I think your team is pretty good. The best way for you to beat Talonflame, and Birdspam in general, is to keep Rocks up at all costs and as soon as Talonflame comes in force it out with Heatran/Lando-T and take out their defogger early so it has a hard time coming in. Between your two good answers you should be fine. Rotom-W shouldn't be a problem anymore, but if it is you may want to run Draco Meteor over Dragon Pulse, although you lose out on late game sweeping potential, you now have a nuke in your hands. Clownkeldurr is insanely hard to switch into, but honestly it doesn't have that many chances to switch into your team members as well. Greninja is also kind of in the same boat as Conk, just make sure it doesn't come in, and if it does make smart switches and if you can get in Lando-T your good. If it runs HP Fire, Manaphy is a decent switchin. If it doesn't have HP Fire, then go Ferro.

 

[Evilfaic]

I didn't update the importable to sync up with my main team yet, so I already was running CC on Hera.

TheEnder Will switch Lando and Heracross sets. I have removed Defog on Latios, only to add it back, because the Spikestacking idea is not working for me. The new Manaphy set is... interesting. I do like pure Tail Glow better, but Psychic is nice for Mega Venusaur. Considering using it over Energy Ball, but I will test some more. Also changing Ferro's EVs.

TheRealMinimod Draco does not make me a more effective late-game cleaner, and why would I run Scald > Surf on a sweeper? I still see plenty of Rotom-W, but I guess it varies from person to person.

ZZtrollZZ I agree totally about Latios and Recover.

Now: I'm really torn about Heatran and Ferro...

Ferrothorn - Ferro is a more reliable SR setter than Heatran for me. I want to run TWave, but I am not thrilled about dropping Protect. Also, I feel like without a hazard, Ferro isn't doing what it is meant to do. That said, Spikestacking has gone poorly for me. So I still want to run SR on this because of Talon. However, SR is very predictable, which generally leads to Talon switching in on me and forcing me out. I get Rocks up, but this leaves me in a hairy situation. The best thing I can do is go into Lando, which has Rock Slide (which I've switched to btw). And then a number of things can happen, and I won't go into them.

Heatran - SubToxic Heatran is really fun, and can set up Sub on a fair amount of mons. Mew... hasn't been a problem. Heracross eats it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The Mew I faced, however, didn't Will-O me. That said, opposing Latios have actually been a problem for Heatran, with the ones I've run into carrying Tbolt. Also, Talonflame's Brave Bird still does absurd amounts to Heatran.

Testing these sets, they performed almost equally, but they have different flaws. So... what should I do? ZZ and Ender, you left me torn x_x

EDIT: Please give me time to update the OP and the importable until this FerroTran error is solved. If changes aren't added, I haven't got around to it.

 

[TheRealMinimod]

TheRealMinimod Draco does not make me a more effective late-game cleaner, and why would I run Scald > Surf on a sweeper? I still see plenty of Rotom-W, but I guess it varies from person to person.

Scald for the nice burn chance, since their BP is so similar. Nice team btw

Manaphy movie was amazing

 

[blinkie]

I didn't update the importable to sync up with my main team yet, so I already was running CC on Hera.

TheEnder Will switch Lando and Heracross sets. I have removed Defog on Latios, only to add it back, because the Spikestacking idea is not working for me. The new Manaphy set is... interesting. I do like pure Tail Glow better, but Psychic is nice for Mega Venusaur. Considering using it over Energy Ball, but I will test some more. Also changing Ferro's EVs.

TheRealMinimod Draco does not make me a more effective late-game cleaner, and why would I run Scald > Surf on a sweeper? I still see plenty of Rotom-W, but I guess it varies from person to person.

ZZtrollZZ I agree totally about Latios and Recover.

Now: I'm really torn about Heatran and Ferro...

Ferrothorn - Ferro is a more reliable SR setter than Heatran for me. I want to run TWave, but I am not thrilled about dropping Protect. Also, I feel like without a hazard, Ferro isn't doing what it is meant to do. That said, Spikestacking has gone poorly for me. So I still want to run SR on this because of Talon. However, SR is very predictable, which generally leads to Talon switching in on me and forcing me out. I get Rocks up, but this leaves me in a hairy situation. The best thing I can do is go into Lando, which has Rock Slide (which I've switched to btw). And then a number of things can happen, and I won't go into them.

Heatran - SubToxic Heatran is really fun, and can set up Sub on a fair amount of mons. Mew... hasn't been a problem. Heracross eats it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. The Mew I faced, however, didn't Will-O me. That said, opposing Latios have actually been a problem for Heatran, with the ones I've run into carrying Tbolt. Also, Talonflame's Brave Bird still does absurd amounts to Heatran.

Testing these sets, they performed almost equally, but they have different flaws. So... what should I do? ZZ and Ender, you left me torn x_x

EDIT: Please give me time to update the OP and the importable until this FerroTran error is solved. If changes aren't added, I haven't got around to it.

Ok I can see why you are torn between this. I think it should be up to you to decide, T-Wave offers speed control, while it offers you something to do on predictable Talon switches, T-Waving it. I also used to have problems with Ferro vs Talonflame, and the solution is when you predict he will bring in Talonflame, double switch to Lando. This works like all the time. Then its just up to you to predict, in my experience most people switch out so just U-turn to gain insane momentum.

I also get that Ferro is more reliable than Heatran, but one main advantage Heatran has is that it isn't total Magnezone bait. Also a minor nitpick, but IDK why you are running 244 Speed EVs on Tran. Typo maybe? Latios is also pretty dangerous, seeing as your scarfer Landorus can get nuked by Draco. However, if you find out what it runs, Latios shouldn't be a problem. 90% of Latios have Draco Meteor/Psyshock/Defog as their first 3 moves. Then in the last move they run HP Fire, Surf, Tbolt, or even Earthquake. Heatran trolls HP fire Latios hard, you can just SR if needed if he tries to defog. If you run Protect, you can Protect to scout for stuff like EQ or Surf(and HJK from Medicham hue hue). However, Sub is definitely a viable option over Protect, seeing as Mew usage is going up like crazy. So my recommendation would be SR/Lava Plume/Protect/Toxic. If for some reason, Tbolt is threatening you, you can always scout with Protect, and then bring in Lando for free, and if you don't want to, bring in Ferro. Surf hits both Lando and Heatran hard, but Ferro then walls. So as long as you play carefully and keep Heatran+Ferro+Lando alive, you basically have no problems.

One main downside to having Protect on both Heatran and Ferro is that you need to play carefully and not get too predictable. For example if Mega Medicham knows you have Protect, it can sub on it, leaving you in big trouble. I'm just going to throw out there the suggestion of running Knock Off over Protect on Ferro if you decide to run Protect on Heatran. You lose out on scouting and stalling, but everything that learns Knock off runs it you troll people that think "Oh look Ferro inb4 protect time to switch in for free"

Finally, I don't use Manaphy often but I don't really understand the point of the Rain dance set, I think Rain dance is just a waste of a moveslot without rest right? Or maybe is there something I don't understand?

EDIT: BTW does your team have problems with MegaCham? Cause its basically a stronger Conk, with better attack and speed, but it takes up mega slot. If it sets up a sub when you switch, you lose your check, and it can also use ice punch regardless of whether or not you bring in Latios or Lando.