Heatran walls your team! (OU team with specially defensive Heatran)

[Delko]

Hello and welcome to my newest RMT. ^^
This time I wanted to try out a very effective pokemon I came across a couple of weeks ago, specially defensive Heatran.
Unlike it's offensive counterpart this set is better used on Stall teams so I needed to make a Stall team. As you might know I'm a big fan of Hail stall teams but this time I decided to use Sandstorm instead because Heatran is immune to it and it appreciates Sandstorm support. After various teams this is the most successful one:​

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This team has been very succesful and I loved using it. Specially Heatran is more common now so I decided to retire the team. It has been a fun team to use but all good things come to an end. Let's take an in depth look:​

Hippowdon (m) @ Leftovers

Ability: Sand Stream
EV's: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Nature: Impish (+ Def / - SpA)​

• Stealth Rock​
• Earthquake​
• Slack Off​
• Ice Fang​

It didn't take me long to find a lead for this team. Hippowdon's natural bulk make him very reliable pokemon to set up Stealth Rock as soon as possible. The reasons why he was chooses over Swampert is access to an instant recovery move and his ability to summon an everlasting Sandstorm during the match.

Stealth Rock is a pretty obvious move on Hippowdon so I don't need to explain that. Earthquake is a very powerful STAB move that is sure to dent things that are not resisted. Slack Off give Hippowdon a reliable recovery move so it can last longer. Crunch is chooses instead of Roar to have decent coverage. I have two phazers on this team anyway so the loss of Roar doesn't matter that much.

I choose the standard defensive EV spread because I want Hippowdon to take physical hits like a champ.​

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How does Hippowdon fair against opposing leads:

Azelf: 2HKO with Crunch.​

Swampert: Set up Stealth Rock and go to Forretress to set up as well.​

Heatran: Earthquake first and Stealth Rock later.​

Metagross: I set up Stealth Rock and Earthquake it.​

Machamp: Earthquake right from the bat, hope I don't get confusion hax.​

Tyranitar: I set up Stealth Rock and Earthquake it.​

Jirachi: I Earthquake out of fear for Trick. if it doesn't Trick I set up Stealth Rock the second turn.​

Roserade: Go to Gyarados to take the sleep, then Heatran.
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Forretress (f) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EV's: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Nature: Careful (+ SpD / -SpA)​

• Spikes
• Rapid Spin​
• Payback​
• Earthquake​

Forretress is a useful pokemon on stall teams and on this it's nothing different. Forretress is both Spiker and Spinner for the team. Forretress sole weakness is also used to get in Heatran safely. I don't use Toxic Spikes on him anymore since I only got up one layer which actually more beneficial for my opponent then it was for me.
The moveset is pretty obvious and straight foreward. Spikes and Rapid Spin don't need an explination as they are common on Forretress. Payback hits Spin Blockers hard and Earthquake will deal with Magnezone, who think it can trap Forretress because it has Leftovers. Earthquake is also a good move against predicted Heatran switch-ins and Agility Gross.
I used the specially defensive spread so Forretress can deal with most Spin Blockers better and it can set up on weaker special attackers.

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Heatran (m) @ Leftovers ​

Ability: Flash Fire

EV's: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Nature: Calm (+ SpD / - Atk)​

• Lava Plume​
• Protect​
• Roar​
• Earth Power​

Specially defensive Heatran is such a beast! It can switch in on Fire attacks aimed at Forretress or Breloom or a Will-o-wisp to get a Flash Fire boost. Heatran walls common special attackers and can stall them due to Sandstorm and a potential burn.
The moves might look a bit strange but are in fact very usefull. Heatran lures out pokemon as Tyranitar and Gyarados so getting a burn on those with Lava Plume is just so hilarious. Protect has two functions. It scouts Choice users so I don't have to make difficult predictions. And it also gives Heatran an additional turn to gain Leftovers recovery. Roar is also a very useful move and it lets me abuse Forretress' entry hazards to the fullest. Earth Power offers good coverage and allows me to take out opposing Heatran ( Scarftran Earth Power does max 70.5% - 83.9% to me and I can KO in return).
I opted for a total specially defensive set with max HP and special defense. The leftover EV's are dropped in special attack for a bit more power.​

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Breloom (m) @ Toxic Orb ​

Ability: Poison Heal

EV's: 236 HP / 248 Def / 24 Spe
Nature: Impish (+ Def / - SpA)​

• Spore​
• Leech Seed​
• Substitute​
• Focus Punch​

Breloom has a unique typing and because if that it has a lot of usefull resistances. it is one of the most reliable Tyranitar counters I have ever used. it also counters Bulky DD Gyarados without Bounce or Ice Fang. Breloom is a very effective pokemon to use on a stall team. He has access to Leech Seed and Spore, two moves that are very effective when coupled with entry hazards. Breloom is also a part of my Grass / Fire / Water core (Breloom / Heatran / Gyarados) that provides me with a very reliable defensive core. Breloom also has the unique ability Poison Heal which works a lot better when holding a Toxic Orb. This way it gets reliable recovery every turn while also being immune to other status bare Confusion. This means the Breloom can switch into Will-o-wisp / Toxic / Thunderwave with ease.

Spore is a very obvious move an almost omnipresent on any Breloom. It is a Sleep inducing move with 100% accuracy which has helped my out a lot. Leech Seed is another very effective move on Breloom, and adds a stallish aspect to the team. I use Protect instead of Substitute because I've found that more helpful on occasions. Focus Punch might look like a stupid move when not being used with Substitute but with Spore and Leech Seed Breloom forces a lot of switches so predicting that isn't as difficult as you might think.

I used the standard SubSeed set EV spread. Which is kind of ironic since I don't use Substitute. But that spread offers a bulky Breloom which is what I needed.​

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Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf ​

Ability: Levitate
EV's: 72 HP / 192 SpA / 244 Spe
Nature: Timid (+ Spe / - Atk)

• Hydro Pump​
• Shadow Ball​
• Thunderbolt​
• Trick​

In the this teams draft this used to be a Choice Specs version. But when using that I discovered that my team was on the slow side and I took huge amounts of damage from things as Choice Specs Heatran or DD Gyarados. So I decided to change Specs to Scarf to add the much needed Speed to the team. It also works as a decent revenge killer against the likes of Mixape or LO Tran. And unlike other appliances ScarfTar is careful about switching in as he doesn't like taking a Hydro Pump to the face. Rotom-W also provides me with a decent pokemo to deal with Stallbreaking Gliscor as he could cause the team some trouble. Other then that, Rotom-W is also the Spinblocker of this team.
Hydro Pump is obviously the reason I choose this appliance over the others as that move helps me against a lot of problems to the rest of the team. Like I already mentioned, it is great pokemon to revenge kill Infernape, Heatran, Mamoswine, Gliscor and many others.
Shadow Ball is an obvious STAB move and really comes in handy against opposing RestTalk Rotom-A, who don't carry Shadow Ball themselves most of th time. Thunderbolt is another STAB move that is helpful against most Bulky Waters and set up pokemon as DD Gyarados or Suicune. Trick is a very effective move to have on a stall team as it can really screw an opposing pokemon.​

I opted for the Standard EV spread here but it works and I'm not having any problems with it so far.

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Gyarados (f) @ Leftovers

Ability: Intimidate
EV's: 252 HP / 80 Def / 176 SpD
Nature: Careful (+ SpD / - SpA)​

• Waterfall​
• Rest​
• Sleep Talk​
• Roar​

RestTalk Gyarados is one of the best pokemon to use on a stall team. It’s one of the toughest pokemon to take out while it still packs quite an offensive punch as well. Gyarados is a perfect counter to almost every physical attacker that can threaten my team. Electric and Rock attacks are nicely taken by my other physical wall, Hippowdon. Other then that Gyarados can also absorb status which is very helpful because my team doesn’t have a cleric.
Waterfall is the only attack move but since it’s STAB’ed it is still a powerful move to use. Rest and Sleep Talk are obvious. It keeps Gyarados as healthy as possible for taking hits and Sleep Talks makes sure that Gyarados doesn’t turn in set up fodder.
At first I had a totally physical defensive spread but I wanted to be able to switch into Heatran and Infernape STAB move easier so I went with a more specially defensive spread.

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That was the team, let me know what you think. ^^

To make the team easier to rate, I added a threat list with the top 30 OU threats (originaly from Kokoloko):

Scizor: Gyarados walls it.​

Heatran: All my pokemon have a SE move to hit it. Gyarados is my main switch-in though.​

Tyranitar: Breloom is the perfect counter except the rare versions with Ice Beam / Flamethrower.​

Gyarados: Breloom counters most versions. Rotom-a can revenge kill it as well.​

Gengar: Forretress is a pretty safe switch-in. Heatran can survive a Focus Blast and OHKO.​

Jirachi: Heatran counter all versions reasonably well. Hippowdon counter the physical version very well too.​

Rotom-A: Heatran can take any hit (even Hydro Pump) and deal significant damage in return. Payback from Forretress also hurts it.​

Starmie: LO version are hard to switch into but can be revenge killed​

Gyarados is a safe switch as it resists both STAB.Rotom-w can also revenge kill if needed.​

Metagross: Hippowdon can take it out, Heatran can take on the ones without Earthquake.​

Swampert: Set up bait for Forretress. Rotom-W can also Trick Curse versions.​

Blissey: Breloom can set up on it and Focus Punch it to oblivion.​

Machamp: Which team doesn't have problems with Machamp? Gyarados can Intimidate it or Breloom can Substall Dynamic Punch out of PP.​

Lucario: Gyarados can take it on due to Intimidate. Rotom-w can also take it out. Hippowdon can take unboosted CC good enough to KO back.​

Azelf: Usually a lead. I lure him in using Explosion and go to Rotom-W. Shadow Ball will also do a lot and because of Sandstorm its Sash is useless.​

Breloom: Gyarados can stall it out if it doesn't have Stone Edge.​

Gliscor: Hippowdon can Ice Fang it, Rotom-W can Hydro Pump it to death.​

Flygon: Loves to switch in on Heatran which often leads to a burn.​

Skarmory: Heatran can take it on, Rotom-W can KO with Thunderbolt. Forretress also get a chance to lay down my own Spikes and Rapid Spin.​

Vaporeon: Breloom can set up on the versions with Ice Beam / Roar.​

Jolteon: Heatran can take even Specs Thunderbolts and KO with Earth Power.​

Suicune: Offensive version can be problem as Breloom cannot take it out. Rotom-W can T-bolt it to death.​

Dragonite: Mix versions are a bit difficult but can be overcome with good prediction.​

Celebi: Heatran can take defensive versions. If it has Earth Power Rotom-W can Shadow Ball it to death or Trick it if it's specially bulky.​

Magnezone: Forretress lures them in an KO's with EQ while in return Thunderbolt or even HP Fire will not take Forry out at full health.​

Zapdos: I'll try to Trick it or outstall it with Breloom (no HP Ice or Heat Wave) or Hippowdon (no HP Grass / Ice or Toxic).​

Kingdra: Gyarados can Roar it out so it takes more damage from entry hazards. Rotom can also T-bolt it.​

Togekiss: T-bolt from Rotom-W or Ice Fang will usually take it out.​

Bronzong: Heatran can win against the ones without EQ. Breloom can try to set up on it. Gyarados can also take it on if it lacks Rest.​

 

[ninjaman1515]

If you're going to run RestTalk Gyarados I would replace Roar with either DD or another attack move as Roar isn't incredibly useful to a sleeping pokemon

 

[Ghost.]

Well built team and very nicely laid out, will be able to make more suggestions once your threat list is up.

On Breloom I'm not sure why you are using Protect over Substitute. Unless you have a specific reason...Substitute is superior because of Focus Punch, if nothing else. You are getting all your HP lost back via Poison Heal & Leech Seed so that is not an issue. Substitute also makes it alot harder for your opponent to 'play around' Breloom. If you make the change to Substitute, I'd reccomend this spread 236Hp / 152Def / 96SpD / 24Spe. You can now almost always keep your Sub up against defensive Rotom-A Thunderbolt as opposed to NEVER keeping it up i.e. the painsplit / resttalk set (a supposed counter to Breloom blablabla). You also are now able to take a multitude of special attacks alot better. In my experience most people's primary answers to Breloom come from the special side. I'll just show the sort of difference this will bring:

Baittar Flamethrower to your spread 77.8% - 92.2%
Baittar Flamethrower to my spread 67.5% - 80%

Scarftar Superpower to your spread 35% - 41.3%
Scarftar Superpower to my spread 38.4% - 45.3%

I don't think a long list of calculations is necessary....

I'm going to suggest more later as the team is quite interesting and is weak to a few things that I want to help withi.e. opposing Breloom, LO Starmie, Subroost Zapdos to name a few.

 

[Delko]

If you're going to run RestTalk Gyarados I would replace Roar with either DD or another attack move as Roar isn't incredibly useful to a sleeping pokemon

Roar is an incredible useful move to abuse entry hazards, as pokemon take damage from Stealth Rock and Spikes every time they switch in.

Well built team and very nicely laid out, will be able to make more suggestions once your threat list is up.

On Breloom I'm not sure why you are using Protect over Substitute. Unless you have a specific reason...Substitute is superior because of Focus Punch, if nothing else. You are getting all your HP lost back via Poison Heal & Leech Seed so that is not an issue. Substitute also makes it alot harder for your opponent to 'play around' Breloom. If you make the change to Substitute, I'd reccomend this spread 236Hp / 152Def / 96SpD / 24Spe. You can now almost always keep your Sub up against defensive Rotom-A Thunderbolt as opposed to NEVER keeping it up i.e. the painsplit / resttalk set (a supposed counter to Breloom blablabla). You also are now able to take a multitude of special attacks alot better. I'll just show this below:

Baittar Flamethrower to your spread 77.8% - 92.2%
Baittar Flamethrower to my spread 67.5% - 80%

I don't think a long list of calculations is necessary....

I'm going to suggest more later as the team is quite interesting and is weak to a few things that I want to help withi.e. opposing Breloom, LO Starmie, Subroost Zapdos to name a few.

Thanks for the suggestion.
I shall test your spread and switch Substitute back instead of Protect. LO Starmie is indeed hard counter as a combination of Hydro Pump / Surf / Thunderbolt hit 5 pokemon hard. I try to revenge kill it with Rotom most of the time or some smart switching around works too as it looses 16% of it's health every turn. I usually try to Trick Zapdos so it isn't as dangerous anymore and Breloom can be outstalled by Gyarados. But I would appreciate to hear it if you have better ideas to counter them ;).
Thanks for the rate! ^^

 

[jc104]

If you're going to run RestTalk Gyarados I would replace Roar with either DD or another attack move as Roar isn't incredibly useful to a sleeping pokemon

Lol roar actually works better when you're sleeping; you can actually attack first with it, and it prevents you from becoming a sitting duck.

Anyway, onto the actual rate: I think your Rotom-W might benefit from something of a bulky spread. Your Rotom is your spinblocker and you really don't want him to be worn down too quickly. It is also nice not to be KOed by Scarftar's pursuit when you stay in. I find that Rotom needs reasonably little special attack investment to get the KOs he needs. Max speed is also not entirely necessary, so there is some scope for changes there as well.

Your Hippowdon does not really need Crunch. It only 2HKOes Azelf which is, frankly, awful. I find that you can't have too many phazing moves on a team like this, and therefore Roar would fit well. Alternatively you could use something like Toxic. I would also consider switching out of Metagross after you SR in case of Explosion.

I can see some very large problems for this team against offensive Suicune (and also, slightly less seriously since you can revenge-kill it, Life Orb Starmie). Though a more bulky spread on Rotom could help with this to avoid a OHKO from Leftovers Hydro Pump (at the moment guaranteed after SR), and to take less from Surf. This may mean that you can kill it without having to trick your scarf onto it (leaving you open to a host of other threats, and allowing Rotom to die, still without having completely removed the threat.) Unfortunately I can see no easy way of dealing with this, short of Blissey or something like RestTalk Snorlax. The best thing to do is probably to replace Breloom with Shaymin or Celebi, who have superior special defense and can therefore survive a +1 Ice Beam, or survive a +0 Ice beam and outrun max speed Suicune. I understand the value of Breloom though, and the team may well be weaker without it, but I must add that Shaymin is an absolure beast with entry hazards support.

Good luck.

 

[Megan_Fox]

i really think you should use toxic spikes on fortress, seeing as your mons can really abuse them ( from heatran to breloom to gyra). although 2 layers would obviously be infinity better 1 layer is still ok and worth it. you have no other status'rs on your team and a 30% burn chance from plume isnt worth it. if you run tspikes i would also run flamethrower > plume on tran. if you dont want to use roar on hippo i would atleast try icefang > crunch so you can handle flygon, but more importantly gliscor and dd nite. as it stands, a last poke ddnite can easily sweep you.

gl with your team hope i helped

 

[Delko]

Thanks for the comments jc104 and Megan Fox. ^^

On Hippowdon I changed Crunch to Ice Fang already when I was making the threat list but if you suggest it means it will it is indeed better.

I used Toxic Spikes in the past and although they were usefull sometimes (eg. stalling out Blissey) I noticed that Breloom can't abuse Spore anymore on thing he needed to do. Also I often only got 1 layer up and that benefits the opponent more then it does me.

I changed Rotom-Ws EV spread a little so it is bulkier.

I shall test Shaymin over Breloom.

 

[Super Mario Bro]

I can see some very large problems for this team against offensive Suicune

Not really. Since it lacks recovery, it will be worn down hardcore by spikes and stealth rock, and since it likes to come in on Heatran to set up, he can always Roar it out as it uses Calm Mind. If worst comes to worst, Rotom can neuter it with Trick.

I agree with Megan Fox that you should place Toxic Spikes on Forry. Place it over Earthquake (I really see no purpose for that move). If you do this, I see no purpose for Breloom. Replace it with Celebi or Shaymin.

Overall, this is a good team. It reminds me of my semi stall team. :)

 

[jc104]

Not really. Since it lacks recovery, it will be worn down hardcore by spikes and stealth rock, and since it likes to come in on Heatran to set up, he can always Roar it out as it uses Calm Mind. If worst comes to worst, Rotom can neuter it with Trick.

This is just not right. Unless you want to lose a pokemon every time it comes in, it will be able to set up. It can set up on Gyarados, Hippowdon, Forretress, Rotom locked into the wrong move and Heatran in come circumstances. Even Breloom is looking at an OHKO from Life Orb variants. It also comes out frequently in the early game when Spikes are not yet up. Even when tricked it is a serious threat to every member of the team with the exception of Forretress. Not to mention Life Orb starmie, who lacks a boosting move but instead recovers, and threatens to remove the spikes.

Edit - you should also take note of the Zapdos weakness mentioned above. Although Heatran effectively walls Zapdos, he can do very little back. With Tbolt/Heatwave/Hidden Power/Roost it can pretty much singlehandedly beat your team (trick and getting a Flash Fire boost from heatwave being your best bets). Toxic on your Hippo might help with this, given that substitute versions can be dealt with thanks to inferior type coverage.

 

[august]

Pretty cool team, i just have 1 question.

Why don't you use Toxic Spikes on Forretress? You have Heatran and Infernape covered fine, so i don't really see why you're using Earthquake, and Protect Heatran + Toxic Spikes is an amazing combo and quite frankly i think Toxic Spikes will also help against Celebi / Shaymin should you be abusing Breloom. Just one quick thing i noticed and i really think you should test it out!

 

[Delko]

Okay since most of you suggested Toxic Spikes on Forretress instead of Earthquake I am willing to change it. Then I will also change Forretress Item to Shed Shell. Hopefully Spore will still be usefull. I'm keeping Lava Plume on Heatran though. Gyarados or Dragonite who are burned are useless.

Thanks for the rate guys!! ^^

EDIT: Without Earthquake Agility Gross can do a lot of damage to my team as well as only Hippowdon can take a hit and KO it.

 

[Delko]

Bump.

 

[george182]

with leech seed brelloom, I find it is just too slow to work. I was recently suggested by someone to try out this brelloom:

Brelloom@toxic orb
EV's: Bulky ev's
- Substitute
- Leech seed
- Stun spore
- W/e

Being brelloom, you get a sub pretty easilly as they switch to a counter. If they are slower, leech seed and sub stall, then get them paralysed whenever, and it can really mess them up, if they miss out on a crucial recovery.

The brilliance of this set, is if they are faster, you then use stun spore, and they are slower. The ability toxic orb let's you set up loads of substitutes, so take advanatage and keep subbing till they get paralysed. You then leech seed, and it's GG.

I dunno what you would use in the fourth move, I guess spore/focus punch/seed bomb. Spore because it pawns. Seed bomb for taunters like gliscor, aerodactyl and gyarados. Focus punch cus its a 150 base power stab move, and destroys skarmorys.

 

[Delko]

Yeah I had Protect on Breloom first because I to noticed he was on the slow side. But Protect is better in general because it eases prediction somewhat. Not to mention Focus Punch works greatly when using Substitute. I'm still trying your set though. thanks ^^

I'm also considering a 232 HP / 252 Spe / 26 SAtk on Rotom-w to make him even bulkier (as suggested by jc104).