Once upon a time I tried to make Sunflora work in VGC 16. It failed miserably. However i had a pretty neat core that had pulled all the weight on that disaster of a team, so I decided to see if I could build a remotely coherent team out of it while retaining some of the gimmicky fun that drew me to the core in the first place. It's worked pretty well, it's got quite a few shortcomings but I'm thinking of using it in an upcoming tournament so I'd appreciate some advice if possible.
Teambuilding Process
I started with Groudon and Reshiram mostly because they were the two I wanted to build around. Groudon provides Sun and heavily damages opponents with Eruption, and Reshiram nukes anything left.
I knew right away that weather control would be crucial for this team because Primal Kyogre could ruin everything with its Rain, so I added Mega Gengar to help control switching as much as possible and also check threats such as Xerneas and Kangaskhan.
Mega Gengar+Whimsicott was a powerful and annoying combo last season, and so far that's held true this season as well. Whimsicott provides all-around support with Tailwind in addition to being annoying.
While being able to trap Primal Kyogre was useful, I still couldn't do much to it. The team was also looking weak to Mega Rayquaza, so I added Thundurus. Thundurus slows down Mega Rayquaza and can do a decent amount of damage to Primal Kyogre, key threats to eliminate as they can interfere with Primal Groudon and Reshiram.
This last spot has been a struggle, but currently it is occupied by Ferrothorn to give me another check to Primal Kyogre, as well as something that can take on a boosted Xerneas.
In-Depth
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Eruption
- Protect
As mentioned, Primal Groudon provides the sun that makes Reshiram so terrifying while being very threatening itself as well. I opted for a full special set because I felt that Precipice Blades was unreliable as both a Ground STAB and spread move because it couldn't KO opposing Primal Groudon and had a chance to miss. Groudon is using Eruption a lot, so the lack of a physical attack never really hurt that much.
Earth Power, as mentioned above, KOs many opposing Groudon and leaves the rest within range of an Eruption from Groudon or Heat Wave from Reshiram. Flamethrower is a more reliable Fire STAB because it doesn't depend on the user's HP, it also KOs any Aegislash that tries to Wide Guard. Eruption makes Groudon so threatening and takes a huge amount out of anything that doesn't resist it at full HP. Protect is Protect, it lets Groudon scout, stall and avoid double targets, standard protect stuff.
I went with Timid and max Speed because dealing with opposing Groudons can be tricky and I wanted to at least Speed tie with them. The rest got put into Special Attack for more power.
Reshiram @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
THIS THING. Reshiram is one of those things that's pretty laughable on paper but is actually quite terrifying in practice. If the opponent doesn't have a Primal Kyogre, chances are good something is going down to one of Reshiram's attacks. I decided to use Choice Specs for the raw power, I tried Life Orb but it missed a few KOs I wanted, notably the 2HKO on boosted Xerneas without Sun and the 1HKO onto 252 HP Groudon with Draco Meteor.
Heat Wave is used when neither of the opponent's current Pokemon can take Fire attacks well, it usually is used in conjunction with Groudon's Eruption, the combination of which can take down most things that don't resist it. Blue Flare is to 1HKO just about anything (seriously), it's disgustingly powerful and has no SpA drop like Overheat. It's hard to describe just how powerful a Blue Flare can be so I'll leave some calcs below. Draco Meteor is another nuke, it can 1HKO most Groudons and takes a huge chunk out of Kyogre. Earth Power is a bit of a filler move but it is more reliable for doing damage to Primal Groudon.
The EV spread is simple enough, I decided to go with Timid again because of how crowded Reshiram's Speed tier is, and again I wanted to Speed tie at worst with Pokemon like Groudon. Max Special Attack is also pretty obvious, as Reshiram's sole purpose on this team is to do huge amounts of damage. I promised calcs so here are some fun ones:
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon in Harsh Sun: 151-178 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 220 HP / 92+ SpD Cresselia in Sun: 187-222 (83.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas in Sun: 141-166 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
-Will-O-Wisp Skill Swap
- Protect
Mega Gengar is a Pokemon I depend on a lot to limit the opponent's options and lock them into an unfavourable matchup. I went with a pretty standard set but I feel that there's some room for improvement.
Sludge Bomb is there for Xerneas and also gets used on most neutral targets due to its Poison chance. Shadow Ball is something I'm questioning, it doesn't get used much save against things like Cresselia, but even then it doesn't always do as much damage as I'd hope.The last slot was also a struggle, but I eventually settled on Will-O-Wisp to cripple Kangaskhan and other physical attackers. Skill Swap in the last slot further emphasizes Gengar's role of controlling the field by allowing me to reset my weather at will. In addition, I can give Groudon Levitate while still in base form to help deal with other Groudons. Protect is pretty standard and I hope it's fairly apparent why it's here :/
I just realized the first 3 Pokemon all have the EXACT same nature and EVs. Spooky. I decided to just start with a 252/252 spread and change according to threats while testing, however I haven't really felt the need to. Max Speed lets me get off Will-O-Wisps before an incoming attack and max Special Attack lets me do more damage.
Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Tears
- Encore
- Tailwind
- Taunt
Whimsicott is the team's main form of Speed control and also puts on a lot of pressure with Fake Tears and Encore. Focus Sash lets Whimsicott live a hit, which is especially useful given all the high power moves in the format.
Fake Tears is great given the large number of special attackers on the team, turning many 2HKOs into 1HKOs. Encore usually forces the opponent not to Protect, so when combined with Fake Tears and Mega Gengar's trapping it can be very frustrating for opponents. Tailwind is for Speed control and helps make Speed ties less of an issue. Taunt helps with Smeargle (provided Quick Guard isn't present) and also prevents Whimsicott from being Taunted.
I again started with a 252/252 spread but have had no reason to change it, I'm not really sure what to invest in so a little help here would be nice.
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
Thundurus provides alternate Speed control while doing enough damage to Kyogre and Rayquaza that a teammate can finish them off. I opted for a Life Orb set because the bulky set didn't do enough damage to its intended targets. In addition, "bulky" Thundurus doesn't live nearly as many hits as it should given the massive increase in power level.
Thunderbolt with Life Orb is shockingly strong, it doesn't quite 1HKO Primal Kyogre but it does come close. Hidden Power Ice has strong coverage with Thunderbolt, but in this metagame all it really does is hit Rayquaza. Thunder Wave is useful for slowing down threats like Rayquaza and boosted Xerneas in a pinch. Taunt was something I considered for the last slot, but it was often predictable against its intended targets (Smeargle). Protect lets Thundurus stall out Tailwind turns and stay alive to check the threats I intended it to.
Another Timid 252/252 spread. Okay 5/6 Pokemon are Timid o_o Again though, I needed to hit as hard and as fast as possible, and this EV spread accomplishes that. I would run bulk but LO recoil makes most investment useless.
Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 228 Atk / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Ferrothorn is the only truly bulky Pokemon on this team, so it's my only good check to a boosted Xerneas. I decided on Lum Berry because Smeargle was incredibly annoying and Leftovers recovery hadn't helped in most games.
Gyro Ball is for Xerneas and pretty much everything else thanks to its decent neutral coverage and high power. Power Whip is for all the pesky Kyogres that give this team so much trouble, it doesn't hit much else though. Leech Seed doesn't get used 90% of the time, but it can be nice to get a little extra recovery, especially if it's used on a high HP Pokemon like Cresselia.
Finally a complex EV spread. The HP lets Ferrothorn live a LO Dragon Ascent from Mega Rayquaza, while the Attack 1HKOs uninvested Primal Kyogre. The rest was put into Special Defence to take hits from Kyogre better.
Threats
Nothing on the team takes its Attacks well and very few things outspeed once it Mega evolves. Usually I have to pray it doesn't have a Fire move and hit it with Ferrothorn or try to paralyze it with Thundurus so it can be dealt with later.
This one is fairly obvious, while the team does have many checks to it, a well played Primal Kyogre is incredibly problematic for this team. Dealing with it all depends on the opponent's team, but I always have to play carefully. Gengar is usually key here to deprive the opponent of their weather advantage.
You've probably noticed but all the Pokemon that reliably hit Primal Groudon also Speed tie with it, so if it's Jolly/Timid it's often a huge problem, as the team has Pokemon that takes it's attacks well.
So that's the team! It's far from meta-breaking but it's pretty neat and I've enjoyed using it.
Teambuilding Process
I started with Groudon and Reshiram mostly because they were the two I wanted to build around. Groudon provides Sun and heavily damages opponents with Eruption, and Reshiram nukes anything left.
I knew right away that weather control would be crucial for this team because Primal Kyogre could ruin everything with its Rain, so I added Mega Gengar to help control switching as much as possible and also check threats such as Xerneas and Kangaskhan.
Mega Gengar+Whimsicott was a powerful and annoying combo last season, and so far that's held true this season as well. Whimsicott provides all-around support with Tailwind in addition to being annoying.
While being able to trap Primal Kyogre was useful, I still couldn't do much to it. The team was also looking weak to Mega Rayquaza, so I added Thundurus. Thundurus slows down Mega Rayquaza and can do a decent amount of damage to Primal Kyogre, key threats to eliminate as they can interfere with Primal Groudon and Reshiram.
This last spot has been a struggle, but currently it is occupied by Ferrothorn to give me another check to Primal Kyogre, as well as something that can take on a boosted Xerneas.
In-Depth
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Flamethrower
- Eruption
- Protect
As mentioned, Primal Groudon provides the sun that makes Reshiram so terrifying while being very threatening itself as well. I opted for a full special set because I felt that Precipice Blades was unreliable as both a Ground STAB and spread move because it couldn't KO opposing Primal Groudon and had a chance to miss. Groudon is using Eruption a lot, so the lack of a physical attack never really hurt that much.
Earth Power, as mentioned above, KOs many opposing Groudon and leaves the rest within range of an Eruption from Groudon or Heat Wave from Reshiram. Flamethrower is a more reliable Fire STAB because it doesn't depend on the user's HP, it also KOs any Aegislash that tries to Wide Guard. Eruption makes Groudon so threatening and takes a huge amount out of anything that doesn't resist it at full HP. Protect is Protect, it lets Groudon scout, stall and avoid double targets, standard protect stuff.
I went with Timid and max Speed because dealing with opposing Groudons can be tricky and I wanted to at least Speed tie with them. The rest got put into Special Attack for more power.
Reshiram @ Choice Specs
Ability: Turboblaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Blue Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Earth Power
THIS THING. Reshiram is one of those things that's pretty laughable on paper but is actually quite terrifying in practice. If the opponent doesn't have a Primal Kyogre, chances are good something is going down to one of Reshiram's attacks. I decided to use Choice Specs for the raw power, I tried Life Orb but it missed a few KOs I wanted, notably the 2HKO on boosted Xerneas without Sun and the 1HKO onto 252 HP Groudon with Draco Meteor.
Heat Wave is used when neither of the opponent's current Pokemon can take Fire attacks well, it usually is used in conjunction with Groudon's Eruption, the combination of which can take down most things that don't resist it. Blue Flare is to 1HKO just about anything (seriously), it's disgustingly powerful and has no SpA drop like Overheat. It's hard to describe just how powerful a Blue Flare can be so I'll leave some calcs below. Draco Meteor is another nuke, it can 1HKO most Groudons and takes a huge chunk out of Kyogre. Earth Power is a bit of a filler move but it is more reliable for doing damage to Primal Groudon.
The EV spread is simple enough, I decided to go with Timid again because of how crowded Reshiram's Speed tier is, and again I wanted to Speed tie at worst with Pokemon like Groudon. Max Special Attack is also pretty obvious, as Reshiram's sole purpose on this team is to do huge amounts of damage. I promised calcs so here are some fun ones:
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Primal Groudon in Harsh Sun: 151-178 (86.2 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. 220 HP / 92+ SpD Cresselia in Sun: 187-222 (83.8 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Turboblaze Reshiram Blue Flare vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Xerneas in Sun: 141-166 (70.1 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Bomb
- Shadow Ball
-
- Protect
Mega Gengar is a Pokemon I depend on a lot to limit the opponent's options and lock them into an unfavourable matchup. I went with a pretty standard set but I feel that there's some room for improvement.
Sludge Bomb is there for Xerneas and also gets used on most neutral targets due to its Poison chance. Shadow Ball is something I'm questioning, it doesn't get used much save against things like Cresselia, but even then it doesn't always do as much damage as I'd hope.
I just realized the first 3 Pokemon all have the EXACT same nature and EVs. Spooky. I decided to just start with a 252/252 spread and change according to threats while testing, however I haven't really felt the need to. Max Speed lets me get off Will-O-Wisps before an incoming attack and max Special Attack lets me do more damage.
Whimsicott @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fake Tears
- Encore
- Tailwind
- Taunt
Whimsicott is the team's main form of Speed control and also puts on a lot of pressure with Fake Tears and Encore. Focus Sash lets Whimsicott live a hit, which is especially useful given all the high power moves in the format.
Fake Tears is great given the large number of special attackers on the team, turning many 2HKOs into 1HKOs. Encore usually forces the opponent not to Protect, so when combined with Fake Tears and Mega Gengar's trapping it can be very frustrating for opponents. Tailwind is for Speed control and helps make Speed ties less of an issue. Taunt helps with Smeargle (provided Quick Guard isn't present) and also prevents Whimsicott from being Taunted.
I again started with a 252/252 spread but have had no reason to change it, I'm not really sure what to invest in so a little help here would be nice.
Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Protect
Thundurus provides alternate Speed control while doing enough damage to Kyogre and Rayquaza that a teammate can finish them off. I opted for a Life Orb set because the bulky set didn't do enough damage to its intended targets. In addition, "bulky" Thundurus doesn't live nearly as many hits as it should given the massive increase in power level.
Thunderbolt with Life Orb is shockingly strong, it doesn't quite 1HKO Primal Kyogre but it does come close. Hidden Power Ice has strong coverage with Thunderbolt, but in this metagame all it really does is hit Rayquaza. Thunder Wave is useful for slowing down threats like Rayquaza and boosted Xerneas in a pinch. Taunt was something I considered for the last slot, but it was often predictable against its intended targets (Smeargle). Protect lets Thundurus stall out Tailwind turns and stay alive to check the threats I intended it to.
Another Timid 252/252 spread. Okay 5/6 Pokemon are Timid o_o Again though, I needed to hit as hard and as fast as possible, and this EV spread accomplishes that. I would run bulk but LO recoil makes most investment useless.
Ferrothorn @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
Level: 50
EVs: 100 HP / 228 Atk / 180 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect
Ferrothorn is the only truly bulky Pokemon on this team, so it's my only good check to a boosted Xerneas. I decided on Lum Berry because Smeargle was incredibly annoying and Leftovers recovery hadn't helped in most games.
Gyro Ball is for Xerneas and pretty much everything else thanks to its decent neutral coverage and high power. Power Whip is for all the pesky Kyogres that give this team so much trouble, it doesn't hit much else though. Leech Seed doesn't get used 90% of the time, but it can be nice to get a little extra recovery, especially if it's used on a high HP Pokemon like Cresselia.
Finally a complex EV spread. The HP lets Ferrothorn live a LO Dragon Ascent from Mega Rayquaza, while the Attack 1HKOs uninvested Primal Kyogre. The rest was put into Special Defence to take hits from Kyogre better.
Threats
Nothing on the team takes its Attacks well and very few things outspeed once it Mega evolves. Usually I have to pray it doesn't have a Fire move and hit it with Ferrothorn or try to paralyze it with Thundurus so it can be dealt with later.
This one is fairly obvious, while the team does have many checks to it, a well played Primal Kyogre is incredibly problematic for this team. Dealing with it all depends on the opponent's team, but I always have to play carefully. Gengar is usually key here to deprive the opponent of their weather advantage.
You've probably noticed but all the Pokemon that reliably hit Primal Groudon also Speed tie with it, so if it's Jolly/Timid it's often a huge problem, as the team has Pokemon that takes it's attacks well.
So that's the team! It's far from meta-breaking but it's pretty neat and I've enjoyed using it.
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