How to make a bulky dragon better: OU team rate

[KurashiDragon]

Well after going through multiple teams I thought it would be a good idea if I made a team around my most fav pokemon ever. So I made this team and was generally impressed with the win to lose ratio. (I have more wins than losses ROFLMAO) Here's my team.
　
My Team (At A Glance)

Possible Replacements:

　
My Team (Rate)

Brellom
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Jolly
Item: Choice Scarf
EV: 6 hp, 252 atk, 252 spd
Attacks: Seed Bomb, Stone Edge, Mach Punch, Spore
Bio: This is my starter and its damn good. It outspeeds anything below base 130 and scarfs. I simply love this guy because it allows me to set up most of the time. Get in a quick spore then switch out to dragonite or gengar. If it's above 130 most of the time it wont attack. (In the case of aerodactyl, that is the most likely of the base 130's, it'll most likely taunt and ninjask will just set up.) In the case of scarfs it really depends on what it is. The only scarfed starter I've ever seen is jirachi so I'd just switch of either my jirachi or vaporeon. Anyway I still got moves so... Seed bomb is for the starter swampert. I don't go with spore because Most of the time swampert don't switch out on me. Stone edge is for those aerodactyls that think they can taunt up my brellom and stop its spore. Well that didn't work Aerodactyl did it? Mach punch is a simple stab move that allows me to attack first. Moreover it allows me to 2 hit ko tyranitar. lovely but I still dont really use it much. interesting.

Dragonite
Nature: Adamant
Item: Leftovers
EV: 248 hp, 64 atk, 196 spd
Attacks: Dragon Claw, Earthquake, Roost, Dragon Dance
Bio: Dragonite is a monster pokemon. You'd think that Salamence has this set down better than dragonite but that's where your wrong. Which one do you think can survive an ice beam from a starmie and a Avalanche from a swampert? Go on guess. Anyways bulky dragonite is a monster that comes in mid to late for sweeping. Dragon dance twice and the opponent is in some kinda trouble. I decided Dragon claw over Outrage because I don't like hit and run tactics. (When Outrage is done it leaves dragonite confused and in a vunerable position.) Even before that outrage leaves dragonite open while the move is still going on. Any steel type can come in on dragonite and wall it completely. Considering most of the steel types opposing dragonite would know explosion, its just not worth it. I chose Earthquake over Superpower for pretty much the same reason. My dragonite is in a vunerable position and I don't like that. Roost is there for healing and suprising coverage. Sometimes I wouldn't know exactly what to do switch out or stay in. Depending on how fast I am I can roost up and see what move my opponent uses. If its bad I'll switch to the correct counter. It has come in handy before many times.

Blissey
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
EV: 252 hp, 252 def
Attacks: Thunder Bolt, Ice Beam, Aromatherapy, Softboiled
Bio: Blissy is there for a wall on both sides suprisingly. This set is good to go against Gyarados and dragons that think they can set up against my blissy. Only problem with that being gyrados aren't ohkoed by thunder bolt which sucks. Anyways Aromatherapy is there because I simply hate status (Interestingly I'd hit myself everytime I'd think about switching blissy because I forget aromatherapy lol.) Softboiled is there for stalling and for healing.

Jirachi
Nature: Adamant
Item: Leftovers
EV: 240 hp, 107 atk, 56 def, 107 spd
Attacks: Iron Head, Fire Punch, U-Turn, Wish
Bio: Jirachi is there for wish support and regular support. Iron head for stab and Flinch hax. Fire punch for the Steel types that think they can ruin my teams parade and the 20% chance of burn isn't all to bad. U-turn is there to get away from magnezone and help with wish. Wish is there for support.(Obviously) Anyways I picked jirachi becuase of its partnership with dragonite in that they risist each others weaknesses. Jirachi is weak to ground and fire which dragonite resists and dragonite is weak to Ice, rock, and dragon which Jirachi risists. You know suprisingly I've never had to exploit that. Interesting.

Gengar
Nature: Hasty
Item: Choice Scarf
EV: 252 sp atk, 252 spd
Attacks: Shadow Ball, Hidden Power (Ice), Thunder Bolt, Trick
Bio: Ya gotta love that platinum. With the advent of trick this is one of my more obvious choices for switches from Brellom. Gengar is acctually my secondary counter for gayrados. Just in case I can't get in with Blissy. You pretty much guessed thunder bolt is that move. Shadow ball is for the obvious coverage. Hidden power ice when combined with Choice Scarf can catch any dding dragon, after 1 DD, off guard and kill them off.

Vaporeon
Nature: Bold
Item: Leftovers
EV: 188 hp, 252 def, 68 spd
Attacks: Surf, Hidden Power (Electric), Wish, Protect
Bio: I've seen vaporeon on plenty of RMTs and it's been known as a defensive bulk. I still don't believe that but it's certainly been useful on my team. Vaporeon is the only pokemon on my team that has never let me down in what it does. The surf is for stab obviously. Origionally I had given Vaporeon Ice Beam but sense I have better coverage with HP Electric I'm using this.

Possible Replacements

Magnezone
Nature: Modest
Item: Leftovers
EV: 172 hp, 84 spd, 252 Sp Atk
Attacks: Thunder Bolt, Hidden Power (Grass) Magnet Rise, Substitute
Bio: Someone offered me the steel killer set I thought may as well go with it. In general I can change some things but for now I'll go with this. By the way It will replace jirachi if accepted.

Edits: Dragonite and vaporeon's ev have been changed.
Edits 2: Gengar's moveset has changed. Vaporeon's Moveset has changed
Edits 3: Jirachi's moveset, Nature, and EVs changed.
Edits 4: Possible Replacement added.

 

[el fizz]

right off the bat. if you are running a scarf on breloom, why bother with mach punch? Superpower would be my choice but if you don't like the drop. I guess drain punch would be a unique choice or sky uppercut.

 

[haunter]

Hi,

your team is ok, I just see some debatable EVs\moveset choices:

1) I'd give your Dragonite some Atk EVs, taking them from Spe. Usually 196 Spe EVs are enough on a bulky set like yours (they allow you to outspeed TTar), so placing the spare EVs into Atk may be a good idea.

2) I'd give Blissey toxic over either ice beam or thunderbolt: without a status move calm mind Latias is free to set up on her and then sweep your team. Also, I'd probably use flamethrower as your attacking move since your team seems very weak to Scizor (which you can catch on the switch in).

3) Even if body slam on Jirachi has its uses, I'd probably replace it with fire punch: again, you have nothing to counter Scizor and being able to at least revenge kill it is a must. Note that at the moment SD Scizor completely owns your team.

4) On Gengar I'd run: shadow ball, hidden power [ice], focus blast and trick, switching to a timid nature. HP ice is needed to revenge kill Salamence and opposing Dragonite, focus blast - although inaccurate - may save you from a Lucario sweep. Trick already cripples Blissey and Snorlax, so I see no need for explosion.

5) Vaporeon needs max Def, use the standard EV spread of 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe (or SpA). You'll take physical hits better by maximizing its defence rather than having more HP. Also note that you may prefer having some Spe EVs just to outspeed Scizor and finish it off with surf, rather than putting the spare EVs into SpA - which were useful when Garchomp was OU. Also be sure to run hidden power [electric] over ice beam, otherwise you'll be in trouble against Gyarados. Also note that Vaporeon doesn't counter Salamence anymore - as a +1 life orb'd outrage can ohko, and a life orb'd draco meteror can 2hko - so ice beam has little uses.

right off the bat. if you are running a scarf on breloom, why bother with mach punch? Superpower would be my choice but if you don't like the drop. I guess drain punch would be a unique choice or sky uppercut.

The obvious choice there would be superpower, but since his team is quite weak to Lucario I'd suggest that he keeps mach punch just to revenge kill it.

Hope this helps.

GL!

 

[lordkira]

How are you going to fight off the steel types?
Let's see...for your Dragonite to efficiently sweep, I'd would put Magnezone to cover his weak spots and maybe even a LS user to maximize his advantage over Salamence, to survive the non-stabbed ice beams.
Other than that, this team looks awesome. Let me know how it goes :D

 

[KurashiDragon]

Hi,

your team is ok, I just see some debatable EVs\moveset choices:

1) I'd give your Dragonite some Atk EVs, taking them from Spe. Usually 196 Spe EVs are enough on a bulky set like yours (they allow you to outspeed TTar), so placing the spare EVs into Atk may be a good idea.

I've always hated the speed of dragonite which is why I gave it max speed but I'll definatally think about that.

2) I'd give Blissey toxic over either ice beam or thunderbolt: without a status move calm mind Latias is free to set up on her and then sweep your team. Also, I'd probably use flamethrower as your attacking move since your team seems very weak to Scizor (which you can catch on the switch in).

Blissey could use toxic and flamethrower but I haven't met a calm mind Latias yet. Yes my team is scizor weak but I could never really think of what to get rid of to take scizor down. Also Most DDers can run me over if I got rid of either of those. (Excluding TTar)

3) Even if body slam on Jirachi has its uses, I'd probably replace it with fire punch: again, you have nothing to counter Scizor and being able to at least revenge kill it is a must. Note that at the moment SD Scizor completely owns your team.

I've been thinking about fire punch a bit but apart from the steel types it doesn't have much coverage.

4) On Gengar I'd run: shadow ball, hidden power [ice], focus blast and trick, switching to a timid nature. HP ice is needed to revenge kill Salamence and opposing Dragonite, focus blast - although inaccurate - may save you from a Lucario sweep. Trick already cripples Blissey and Snorlax, so I see no need for explosion.

5) Vaporeon needs max Def, use the standard EV spread of 188 HP / 252 Def / 68 Spe (or SpA). You'll take physical hits better by maximizing its defence rather than having more HP. Also note that you may prefer having some Spe EVs just to outspeed Scizor and finish it off with surf, rather than putting the spare EVs into SpA - which were useful when Garchomp was OU. Also be sure to run hidden power [electric] over ice beam, otherwise you'll be in trouble against Gyarados. Also note that Vaporeon doesn't counter Salamence anymore - as a +1 life orb'd outrage can ohko, and a life orb'd draco meteror can 2hko - so ice beam has little uses.


(4 & 5) Basically I can pull the old switcharoo with their targets. (Salamence for Gengar Gyarados for Vaporeon basically.) Yea seems good.

(4) I've always thought of an inacurrate move like Focus blast good with a gravity team or Wide lense. Even then I don't see much coverage to anything other than a Lucario an a TTar. (Which doesn't get ohkoed by it)

(5) Hmm.... I might just use that ev set. I like it.

The obvious choice there would be superpower, but since his team is quite weak to Lucario I'd suggest that he keeps mach punch just to revenge kill it.

That's pretty much why mach punch is on there. If gengar is gone I'm gonna have some trouble. Even then I'm fearing a bullet punch against gengar.

Hope this helps.

 

[lordkira]

The whole thing about dragonite is that...it is not worth it to invest points into speed as it will still not change the fact that many will outrun him. By doing this, as RaiKouLover said a while back, you are making him an inferior Salamence. I'd just have enough speed for a certain pokemon that is popular in the metagame and spend the rest into attack especially because you are also using Dragon Claw instead of Outrage. Just giving away my thoughts/opinions to a fellow dragonite lover XD

edit: oh and let me know if this team works out well!
I am thinking about making a Bulky Offensive team with BUlky DDNite in but I am not sure if it will work or not. Best luck man

 

[KurashiDragon]

The whole thing about dragonite is that...it is not worth it to invest points into speed as it will still not change the fact that many will outrun him. By doing this, as RaiKouLover said a while back, you are making him an inferior Salamence. I'd just have enough speed for a certain pokemon that is popular in the metagame and spend the rest into attack especially because you are also using Dragon Claw instead of Outrage. Just giving away my thoughts/opinions to a fellow dragonite lover XD

edit: oh and let me know if this team works out well!
I am thinking about making a Bulky Offensive team with BUlky DDNite in but I am not sure if it will work or not. Best luck man

Well this would just so happen to be a good opinion. Especially the fellow dragonite lover XD!!!!

 

[lordkira]

haha I am trying to make a dragonite work better than a mence on a competitve team but so far I have been unsuccessful due to the fact that I have been hesitant and scared it will fail. I hope you do well so I can also go on making a Bulky DDNite with assurance that it is possible to do well lol.

 

[KurashiDragon]

haha I am trying to make a dragonite work better than a mence on a competitve team but so far I have been unsuccessful due to the fact that I have been hesitant and scared it will fail. I hope you do well so I can also go on making a Bulky DDNite with assurance that it is possible to do well lol.

Actually I've put dragonite into alot of spots that salamence would love to be in. I've battled some Starmie, suicune(Sometimes fail), Vaporeon, (Never fail exept hax) Mamoswine, (This was cool in that it survived the ice shard and ohkoed with dragon claw. Interestingly enough they were the last pokemon on our respective team and I thought for sure it was a loss. Did about 78% damage to my 92% health. That was awesome. I don't know if it was max atk or not because my opponent left before I could ask. If anyone has a way of finding out plz don't hesitate to say something.) Interestingly, I've never seen hide nor hair of weavile. That's crazy.

 

[lordkira]

weavile is not seen too much these days for some reason...iono...but that's good for us lol. You could just use the damage calculator to see how much max atk mamoswine's ice shard would doo to your dragonite. :D

 

[KurashiDragon]

weavile is not seen too much these days for some reason...iono...but that's good for us lol. You could just use the damage calculator to see how much max atk mamoswine's ice shard would doo to your dragonite. :D

I've no idea where that is. Sure would help. lol!

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

you have a pretty good team. I dont think that you need mach punch on breloom though. It already outspeeds most leads, save scarfrachi, and mach punch wont do enough. You should replace it with some priority-less fighting stab, i suggest superpower. If you dont like the defense and attack drop, run sky uppercut or brick break.

Also, your dragonite's set doesnt have any advantages over a salamence. Dragonites advanteges are superpower, fire punch and its bulky-ness (I think i just invented a new word). Use a CB nite or a bulky-support set to maxamise its advantages over salamence. If your planning on keeping the same set, switch to salamence

 

[KurashiDragon]

you have a pretty good team. I dont think that you need mach punch on breloom though. It already outspeeds most leads, save scarfrachi, and mach punch wont do enough. You should replace it with some priority-less fighting stab, i suggest superpower. If you dont like the defense and attack drop, run sky uppercut or brick break.

Also, your dragonite's set doesnt have any advantages over a salamence. Dragonites advanteges are superpower, fire punch and its bulky-ness (I think i just invented a new word). Use a CB nite or a bulky-support set to maxamise its advantages over salamence. If your planning on keeping the same set, switch to salamence

My nite has an advantage over Salamence in that it can stay in on some ice moves with its given ev. Something that salamence can't do. Then I can predict my next move with either roost or a switch out. (Depending on how the outcome of the battle has proceeded.) Using this set gives dragonite more priority when the situation calls for it. (Which is most of the time for me.)

My brellom has that move to go against SD lucario. It's probly the best counter I can think of to go against a lucario. Even then its still a stab move that can be used for revenge killing. (It would require a bit of prediction on the opponents part. If they see a mach punch coming sucks to be me. I force a switch then I get brellom out of there. If not the pokemon in is officially a death fodder. lol)

 

[lordkira]

you have a pretty good team. I dont think that you need mach punch on breloom though. It already outspeeds most leads, save scarfrachi, and mach punch wont do enough. You should replace it with some priority-less fighting stab, i suggest superpower. If you dont like the defense and attack drop, run sky uppercut or brick break.

Also, your dragonite's set doesnt have any advantages over a salamence. Dragonites advanteges are superpower, fire punch and its bulky-ness (I think i just invented a new word). Use a CB nite or a bulky-support set to maxamise its advantages over salamence. If your planning on keeping the same set, switch to salamence

That is not true.
With more bulk as you said, Bulky DD-Nite with LS (from his own moveset or from another pokemon to support his sweep) will outclass the defensive DDMence. In a defensive team that can support dragonite, he can do multiple times of DD, which will make him superior to offensive DDMence who is very fragile (though this is if you have the right supports for Dragonite)

I've no idea where that is. Sure would help. lol!

Oh use libelldra damage calculator
You can google it and it will be the first link to show up.

 

[skizoo]

okay right off the bat. breloom isnt to much as a good as a lead. i suggest you to make breloom normal set with toxic orb etc.

second you dont even have a stealth rocker.. its always a must to have a steath rocker on a team. so turn jirachi into a starter with the moveset of stealth rock, iron head, u-turn, trick

then for gengar take out trick and make it a sweeping set only..

as for blissey let it be a pokemon that will heal your pokes. so get like a wish blissey.. it will annoy the shit out of people.

substitute dragonite for flygon.. you lack electrical moves. just because you have vaporeon there.
good luck with the team

 

[KurashiDragon]

Mamoswine Ice Shard vs Dragonite: 394 Atk vs 226 Def & 385 HP (40 Base Power): 304 - 360 (78.96% - 93.51%) That's intense!!!!!

Skizoo: I'm not changing dragonite for flygon. I know its a revenge killer but I don't need it. Also when refering to "A bulky dragon" I was refering to dragonite.

Wish and aromatherapy are illegal. I'm not getting rid of Aromatherapy and besides I already have 2 wishers.

I don't wanna get rid of Gengars trick its to useful.

Brellom is an awesome starter, it has VERY rarely let me down.

Jirachi's moves are just fine. I like parahax and I've tried trick Jirachi on other team, I don't think it would do any good on this team.

 

[lordkira]

okay right off the bat. breloom isnt to much as a good as a lead. i suggest you to make breloom normal set with toxic orb etc.

second you dont even have a stealth rocker.. its always a must to have a steath rocker on a team. so turn jirachi into a starter with the moveset of stealth rock, iron head, u-turn, trick

then for gengar take out trick and make it a sweeping set only..

as for blissey let it be a pokemon that will heal your pokes. so get like a wish blissey.. it will annoy the shit out of people.

substitute dragonite for flygon.. you lack electrical moves. just because you have vaporeon there.
good luck with the team

I'd rather use Bulky DDNite than Revenge-Killing Flygon here.
Overall, Dragonite is much more bulky and powerful with the LS support

Mamoswine Ice Shard vs Dragonite: 394 Atk vs 226 Def & 385 HP (40 Base Power): 304 - 360 (78.96% - 93.51%) That's intense!!!!!

Yeah it survives XD
Mence can also do it but Nite just does it better

 

[KurashiDragon]

Yeah it survives XD
Mence can also do it but Nite just does it better

Thought I shouldn't go up against a starmie anymore.

Vs Starmie ice Beam. modest, max sp atk:
328 Atk vs 236 Sp Def & 385 HP (95 Base Power): 380 - 448 (98.70% - 116.36%) 87.18% chance of ko. Sucks I know.

 

[skizoo]

well good luck. breloom as a starter with choice scarf is pretty predictable. your opponent will know whats coming up..

as for blissey.. i mean no aromatherapy wish together.. just wish, protect, flamethrower, toxic.

lasty your team lacks electric moves, not meaning super effective, but meaning it will be crutial to your team.

as for gengar.. its your choice not mine..

im just letting you know some suggestions.

especially for breloom. breloom will die much faster.. now a days in OU they carry a lum berry as starter or has a fast choice scarf u-turner then switch out to a sleep talker pokemon or a pokemon with natural cure..


but yea best of luck

 

[KurashiDragon]

well good luck. breloom as a starter with choice scarf is pretty predictable. your opponent will know whats coming up..

as for blissey.. i mean no aromatherapy wish together.. just wish, protect, flamethrower, toxic.

lasty your team lacks electric moves, not meaning super effective, but meaning it will be crutial to your team.

as for gengar.. its your choice not mine..

im just letting you know some suggestions.

especially for breloom. breloom will die much faster.. now a days in OU they carry a lum berry as starter or has a fast choice scarf u-turner then switch out to a sleep talker pokemon or a pokemon with natural cure..


but yea best of luck

I can see where your getting at with breloom but the only pokemon I've played with a lum berry is Azelf. Secondly I can't think of much of anything that I've gone against that electric would do some good against. (Gyarados is the most common and both blissy and Vaporeon respond to that.) Blissy has more priority with boltbeam (Though you are correct in assuming that Scizor walks all over me.)

 

[lordkira]

Thought I shouldn't go up against a starmie anymore.

Vs Starmie ice Beam. modest, max sp atk:
328 Atk vs 236 Sp Def & 385 HP (95 Base Power): 380 - 448 (98.70% - 116.36%) 87.18% chance of ko. Sucks I know.

you forgot to add choice specs
but all those combinations at once is very unlikely
besides who'd fight a starmie with a dragonite (esp switch into him) unless dragonite has done one or two dd's? lol meh ill just my magnezone for that.

 

[KurashiDragon]

you forgot to add choice specs
but all those combinations at once is very unlikely
besides who'd fight a starmie with a dragonite (esp switch into him) unless dragonite has done one or two dd's? lol meh ill just my magnezone for that.

Yea alot of the time Dragonite would be set up if this were to happen.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

since breloom is your lead, it wont be around to counter late game luke. If you want to counter it, switch your lead to like a gengar or jumpluff, if you want sleep, and switch loom out to another spot. You have a pretty good team though.

Most people underestimate salamences bulk. It has intimidate to take physical hits well, and both dragonite and salamence (as well as all dragon/ground/flying) are ohkoed by a resonable powerful ice beam

 

[KurashiDragon]

since breloom is your lead, it wont be around to counter late game luke. If you want to counter it, switch your lead to like a gengar or jumpluff, if you want sleep, and switch loom out to another spot. You have a pretty good team though.

Most people underestimate salamences bulk. It has intimidate to take physical hits well, and both dragonite and salamence (as well as all dragon/ground/flying) are ohkoed by a resonable powerful ice beam

There's no douting that ice beam breaks through even the toughest dragonite and salamence because of the 4 times weakness. Both of them have thier strengths over each other. That's what makes them great at the job they do. Also I never underestimate a pokemon unless the situation is completely against them. Even then it's not impossible to pull something out of your butt.

Anyways breloom doesn't make a great late game sweeper that is certain but with this set its pretty much a latter rinse repeat move, exept with alot more speed and one move lol. Besides this breloom has come in handy on times when its needed and alot of the times it is late game. As the only pokemon with a grass and fighting type move on my team its useful for most of the game. Just requires a bit of prediction on my part.

 

[lordkira]

since breloom is your lead, it wont be around to counter late game luke. If you want to counter it, switch your lead to like a gengar or jumpluff, if you want sleep, and switch loom out to another spot. You have a pretty good team though.

Most people underestimate salamences bulk. It has intimidate to take physical hits well, and both dragonite and salamence (as well as all dragon/ground/flying) are ohkoed by a resonable powerful ice beam

Salamence's bulk is nothing to look down on, I know. However, it really comes from his ability to intimidate and that's only good for switching in as people will usually switch out from mence while Nite has that natural bulk 24/7. Thy are both ohko'd by not reasonably but powerful sp.attackers such as porgon-z for instance. However, who would actually stay in with those guys? Defensive DDers are not played the same way as Offensive DDers who just uses they massive speed and strength to all-out attack but to wait for the right moment, and then setup multiple DD's (even 2 is fine to sweep monstrously). Personally I have always liked Defensive DDers more than offensive DDers but that's just me.