except hydreigon has offensive presence whereas mandi relies on foul play/toxic to do any decent damage. Also the only weakness they both share is fairy.
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Pokémon Hydreigon
- Thread starter supergoji18
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Ice too.
God I loved this Pokemon last gen. So unpredictable. Not the Hydreigon, because most people had one due to it's sheer power, but it's moveset. It could run anything. I think it was the most used OU pokemon in Gen 5. And...now it sucks. It stinks to see it only last such a short amount of time :( I really loved Hydreigon and I haven't seen a single one since Gen 6 started.
After using Hydreigon this gen, I am suprised how well it works. Considering that it has now a 4x weakness and some of its best moves got nerfed, it still hits as power as before. Guess it has to do with the Steel Nerf which allows Hydreigon to kill stuff like Ferro without the need to miss with Fire Blast or Focus Miss. Not trying to imply that Hydreigon can 2-shoot Ferro something :P
No, you still need a Fire or Fighting move to 2HKO Ferrothorn (252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 161-191 (45.7 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO, and that's exactly zero SpDef investment on Ferro's part), but his coverage is still something to be noted.
Cresselia~~
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Actually, Hydreigon did way better than I expected this gen.
Reality is, it even gets less likely to be OHKOed by other mons this gen, because of the general decline of dragons and ice types, and yet not all Pokemon have fairy moves with them.
Moreover, fairies are usually very slow, and Hydreigon has FLASH CANNON this gen.
my Hydreigon:
@ life orb
timid
Flamethrower
Flash Cannon
Draco Meteor/ Dragon Pulse
Roost/ U-turn
Roost is paired with dragon pulse, whilst u-turn is paired with draco meteor.
Personally prefer dragon pulse pair.
Flash Cannon at fairies and slower ice types
Flame thrower at steel types, especially Klefki.
Roost when needed.
Reality is, it even gets less likely to be OHKOed by other mons this gen, because of the general decline of dragons and ice types, and yet not all Pokemon have fairy moves with them.
Moreover, fairies are usually very slow, and Hydreigon has FLASH CANNON this gen.
my Hydreigon:
@ life orb
timid
Flamethrower
Flash Cannon
Draco Meteor/ Dragon Pulse
Roost/ U-turn
Roost is paired with dragon pulse, whilst u-turn is paired with draco meteor.
Personally prefer dragon pulse pair.
Flash Cannon at fairies and slower ice types
Flame thrower at steel types, especially Klefki.
Roost when needed.
Flash Cannon would mean something if it hit remotely hard. 252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Meanwhile, Sylveon OHKOs you with Hyper Voice. 4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Hydreigon: 600-708 (184.6 - 217.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
That's THE most common special Fairy wall. He doesn't even get Iron Head to try and break Fairies that way. If Hydreigon sees a Fairy, besides Mawile and Klefki, he has to switch out, it's pretty much that simple.
The most used pokemon in gen 5 was consistently either Politoed, Scizor, or Genesect before he was banned. Hyreigon was never higher than the mid-20's and was sliding very close to UU range along with Haxorus near the tail end of BW2.
Use it alongside Aegislash, who resists everything Hydreigon is weak to. And if its speed saddens you, try using sticky web or tailwind.
But... yeah. Hydreigon got kicked down the mountain.
Okay well, that wasn't my main point, but I highly doubt it was falling into UU. It was too good to be UU.
Even if you can't do much to fairies themselves, many pokemon carry fairy as a coverage move which you've got to watch out for. Hell, even stuff like tentacruel has access to dazzling gleam.
People keep citing his fairy weakness as a huge problem in the new meta but I'm not really getting it.
Fairy has scared a lot of dragons out of the meta, and the two most common fairy types (Mega Mawile and Klefki) are both weak to his fire blast, and neither of them would willingly switch into Hydreigon for that exact reason.
Fairy moves being used for coverage is a bit of a problem, yes, but only Gengar and Alakazam pose enough of a threat with them to scare Hydreigon away.
My point is, Hydreigon is still incredibly potent. Most teams will only have one poke that can effectively deal with him, all you need to do is bait them out and get rid of them then let Hydreigon sweep.
Fairy has scared a lot of dragons out of the meta, and the two most common fairy types (Mega Mawile and Klefki) are both weak to his fire blast, and neither of them would willingly switch into Hydreigon for that exact reason.
Fairy moves being used for coverage is a bit of a problem, yes, but only Gengar and Alakazam pose enough of a threat with them to scare Hydreigon away.
My point is, Hydreigon is still incredibly potent. Most teams will only have one poke that can effectively deal with him, all you need to do is bait them out and get rid of them then let Hydreigon sweep.
Firstly, yes Fairy is a matter to consider. Im not saying its the be all and end all but if you think Fairy-typing is not so much an issue to Hydreigon then you don't see the whole picture. Second, correct me if Im wrong but Azumarill and MegaWile are the most used Fairy-types. They are followed by Klefki, Sylveon, and Togekiss...2 of which can wall Hydra. I would note Clefable and Gardevoir but idk where they stand. Also it looks like more and more pokes are getting access to DazzlingGleam which can seriously hurt from a high attacker.
But Fairy is not its only problem because OU is still a decently Fighting-type metagame and it cant take Mach Punches. Plus with Gen VI being as it is with new walls and offensive pokes I would say its a bit harder than last gen to just "let Hydreigon sweep."
Again I'm not saying it got hyper nerfed or anything but it will drop to UU...and yes Fairy-typing is a big reason for that.
it does learn flash cannon but that doesn't really help with its new serious pain in the ass: azumarill. resists everything hydreigon can throw at it and ohkos with play rough. surprisingly the thing doesn't learn thunderbolt. the current ridiculousness of ghosts seems like a big plus in hydreigon's favor, as things that resist ghost are pretty much ttar hydreigon and the blobs
252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 146-174 (37 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Iron tail > Flash cannon.
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Rocks and iron tail allow him to get past Sylveon. By the way, you have five more slots in your team for a reason.
Iron tail > Flash cannon.
0 Atk Life Orb Hydreigon Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sylveon: 185-218 (46.9 - 55.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Rocks and iron tail allow him to get past Sylveon. By the way, you have five more slots in your team for a reason.
Yes but overall flash cannon is much better. Maybe not for sylveon but in the gist of things flash cannon is your right hand man. Also iron tail has only 75% accuracy which is a little to risky since if it misses sylveon can 1HKO you with moon blast/hyper voice.
Azumarill is not an indomitable foe for Hydreigon.
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
Rash, 4 Atk 252 SpA 252 Spe
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Superpower
Charge Beam
It requires a bit of (basic) prediction, but an Expert Belt-boosted Charge Beam hits max HP Azumarill quite hard as it switches in:
252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 170-202 (42 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
But don't forget Charge Beam's 70% chance of boosting Hydreigon's Special Attack. At +1, Hydreigon can dispose of Azumarill with ease:
+1 252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 254-300 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And chances are, you're now in possession of a +1 or +2 Hydreigon, with the opponent's main "counter" now removed from the equation.
Offensive Togekiss suffers the same fate. At +1 on the 2nd turn, Hydreigon 2HKOs it. If Stealth Rock is on the field, the boost is not needed:
+1 252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 187-221 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 125-149 (40.1 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hydreigon had zero counters in Generation 5. While that no longer holds true in Gen 6, Pokemon that can safely switch in against him remain few and far between.
Hydreigon @ Expert Belt
Rash, 4 Atk 252 SpA 252 Spe
Draco Meteor
Fire Blast
Superpower
Charge Beam
It requires a bit of (basic) prediction, but an Expert Belt-boosted Charge Beam hits max HP Azumarill quite hard as it switches in:
252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 170-202 (42 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
But don't forget Charge Beam's 70% chance of boosting Hydreigon's Special Attack. At +1, Hydreigon can dispose of Azumarill with ease:
+1 252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 254-300 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And chances are, you're now in possession of a +1 or +2 Hydreigon, with the opponent's main "counter" now removed from the equation.
Offensive Togekiss suffers the same fate. At +1 on the 2nd turn, Hydreigon 2HKOs it. If Stealth Rock is on the field, the boost is not needed:
+1 252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 187-221 (60.1 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Expert Belt Hydreigon Charge Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 125-149 (40.1 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Hydreigon had zero counters in Generation 5. While that no longer holds true in Gen 6, Pokemon that can safely switch in against him remain few and far between.
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This may be true on paper but no one would sacrifice power/coverage for Chargebeam
Except the set posted has perfect neutral coverage as well as ways to bypass its usual counters. Charge beam is normally gimmicky but in this instance it actually does have some merit. You're still beating most pokemon down with the 3 remaining coverage moves while charge beam covers azumarril, the only pokemon who resists/immune to the 3 other moves.
That being said, its a pity you can't get dark pulse into the set anywhere but all moves are too vital to give up in this instance, unless you wish to be walled by something specific.
Precisely. Hydreigon's coverage is not narrowed, but augmented by running Charge Beam. Though the loss of Dark Pulse is unfortunate.
This set does not skimp on power either. In reality, it provides Hydreigon with a potential increase in offensive potency. Charge Beam can also be used to finish off weakened foes, often bolstering Hydregon's already formidable Special Attack in the process.
I never said it was a bad set...I just said no one (generally) would use CB over a standard move found on Hydreigon. But i'll be the first to admit I'd like to try it though I don't think it'll push Hydra back to OU but thats my opinion
It's certainly true that Hydreigon has been hurt by the introduction of the Fairy type; however, I'm skeptical that a 4X weakness to Fairies is any worse than, say, Garchomp's 4X weakness to Ice. There may be more competitively-viable Faeries than Ice types, but I suspect that Ice is more popular as a coverage type than Fairy is, so Ice attacks are probably more common that Fairy attacks in the metagame. And as mentioned earlier in this thread, Hydreigon got some buffs of its own, as Dark Pulse is now more spammable and its Dark typing is one of only two types that either resists or is immune to Ghost attacks.
I use a Choice Scarf Hydreigon as a teammate to AV Metagross, and it works quite well. Hydreigon resists or is immune to all of Metagross' weaknesses aside from Mold Breaker ground attacks, and Metagross covers Hydreigon's Ice, Dragon, and Fairy weaknesses. Aegislash would likely be an even better partner, as it resists Bug and is immune to Fighting attacks. You should probably add a third teammate who can more easily handle Fighting-types with Dark-type coverage moves, though (Conkeldurr I'm looking at you).
Hydreigon still wishes it had just a little more speed, and its Dark typing gives it at least as many drawbacks as advantages, but I think it's still very viable in OU.
I use a Choice Scarf Hydreigon as a teammate to AV Metagross, and it works quite well. Hydreigon resists or is immune to all of Metagross' weaknesses aside from Mold Breaker ground attacks, and Metagross covers Hydreigon's Ice, Dragon, and Fairy weaknesses. Aegislash would likely be an even better partner, as it resists Bug and is immune to Fighting attacks. You should probably add a third teammate who can more easily handle Fighting-types with Dark-type coverage moves, though (Conkeldurr I'm looking at you).
Hydreigon still wishes it had just a little more speed, and its Dark typing gives it at least as many drawbacks as advantages, but I think it's still very viable in OU.
Hydreigon's Dark-typing definitely gives it MORE drawbacks than advantages, even with the weird pseudo Fighting nerf (really just the introduction of Talonflame, Aegislash, and Mega Lucario, who all universally dump on 99% of the Fighting-types out there). The issue with Hydreigon and Fairies is waaay different than any of the Dragons that are 4x weak to Ice, even with arguably much better Pokemon in Mamoswine and Weavile running around. No Ice-type can simply switch in on the three big Physical Dragons (Dragonite, Salamence, Garchomp) and laugh at everything it has to offer. All three of those Pokemon royally fucks up every single Ice-type and 90% of the Pokemon that carry it as coverage with their attacks, sometimes even unboosted. But a Fairy like Sylveon can switch in on Hydreigon, be immune to the nuke that should be Draco Meteor, not give two shits about Dark Pulse, and really only fear something incredibly outlandish like Iron Tail.
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