I like my Celebi like I like my women... nasty and slow... what?

JustLetMePlay

JustLetMePlay

Introduction

So some of you may have seen me around on PS, most of you probably haven't, but that's okay. I forgive you. This is a team I've been using on PS to some degree of success and I'd appreciate some feedback from the experts.

So without further adieu, presenting...

Team Nasty Slow Green Onion Fairy

[pimg]251[/pimg] [pimg]490[/pimg] [pimg]675[/pimg] [pimg]677[/pimg] [pimg]65[/pimg] [pimg]212[/pimg]

[pimg]251[/pimg]

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Baton Pass

So, fairly obviously from my flattering team title, Celebi is the crux of this team and provides the majority of my win conditions. It carries Nasty Plot, a boosting move that makes special attacking Pokemon monstrous in their sheer power. Celebi's one such Pokemon, but does it keep all that power for itself? Oh goodness no. While +2 Giga Drain isn't really anything to scoff at, this particular little green onion would rather share the nastiness around with Baton Pass. The problem is, Celebi would prefer the recipient of its nasty little gift to lay waste to the majority of the opponent's team before they can get a hit off, so faster special sweepers are a must. The problem is, those fast special sweepers often can't take any hit at all. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too... or can you? With 100/100/100 defences, Celebi itself is pretty damn bulky, and if it can take the hit before BPing off to a faster sweeper, we're in the money, to do this, BP has to move second so I've minimised Celebi's speed and maximised its special bulk. Tanks water type ice beams all day long, what a beast. I've replaced the previous Thunder wave with Recover because increasing the longevity of Celebi has worked much better, more often in practice than the rare opportunity to paralyse a dangerous sweeper.

Unfortunately Celebi isn't invincible and has a number of weaknesses to a variety of common Pokemon. Thank God we have...

[pimg]490[/pimg]

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

This is bulky offensive Heatran who despite having great synergy with Celebi, in practice, more often than not doesn't even need to check Celebi's threats. As such, Heatran actually acts more like a suicide lead, laying down rocks to break sashes and multi-scale and help the sweeping process along. Roar handles the few fools who decide setting up from turn one is a good idea or those who decide to substitute on my SR. Being offensive means being taunted isn't a huge deal either since Heatran's huge special attack will hurt coming off that wasted turn you spent taunting me. Heatran also almost single handedly walls sun teams, which is nice since Celebi definitely does not like those. In addition, Heatran can make use of Celebi's passed boosts as well, providing a win condition in a pinch.

[pimg]675[/pimg]

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]

What a sexy beast. Sheer Force Landorus is a monster when ice shard users and scarfers are off the field and it recieves a NP boost. In fact, in that situation, it's basically GG. In reality, Landorus doesn't even need a NP bloost to wreck havoc on a lot of teams, particularly if they're not packing an immunity to Earth Power and as such can punch holes in the opponent's team right off the bat leaving the tattered remains behind as fodder for the rest of the team.

[pimg]677[/pimg]

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Say hello to (almost) standard Scarf Keldeo, OU's premiere revenge killer. That's his primary role on this team and he does so with gusto. That's not all though, Keldeo provides some seriously fast fire power, particularly against rain teams (thank you for the double stab) and if a NP gets passed this way, +2 Hydro Pump will even rip through Pokemon sporting water resistance. Since his job is primarily a revenge killer, I've decided to opt for Icy Wind which gets the job done fine against 4x Ice weak mons while freeing up Hidden Power [Electric] to take care of Gyarados who otherwise gives this team a ton of trouble. Hydro pump stays over surf to mitigate a weakness to Volcarona and to give Keldeo greater sweeping potential outside of rain.

[pimg]65[/pimg]

Alakazam (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Signal Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Alakazam is only on this team because of his ballin' mustache. Okay also his blistering speed, great coverage and wonderful ability. Alakazam is the principle NP receiver, taking no damage from entry hazards as he switches in, not fearing toxic, burn or leech seed which may otherwise shorten a sweep and being able to use Focus Sash to take a priority attack and plow on through no worries. Special walls aren't an issue with a NP boost since Psyshock will take them out no problem. Once faster threats and priority users are off the field, this guy becomes an executioner. Alakazam also doubles as a back-up revenge killer if need be, being able to take a hit with focus sash and KO back preventing straight up sweeps.

[pimg]669[/pimg]

Terrakion @ Choice Band
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Quick Attack

Finally Terrakion rounds off the team by providing a means to take down special walls when Alakazam hasn't had a chance to set up, and punching big holes in the opponent's line up with powerful, banded CC. In addition, Terrakion provides some priority in a pinch, being able to finish off weakened scarfers or priority users with QA.

[pimg]212[/pimg]

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Pursuit

In response to popular demand, Stupid Sexy Scizor has given Terrakion the boot and with good reason. Providing the team not only with powerful priority in the form of Bullet Punch, momentum swinging ability with U-Turn but also removing a lot of Keldeo's enemies and clearing the path to the victory with Pursuit, Scizor definitely fits wonderfully on this team.

Conclusion:

Aaand that's it. There you have it folks, Team Nasty Slow Green Onion Fairy for your viewing pleasure. Any comments and criticism is welcome. I can take it.
 
Ok your team is not bad. However here are some tips


Your Heatran is just bad, IMO. It loses to both Garchomp (Dragon Claw followed by EQ) and Terrakion(CC just outright OHKOs Heatran), very common lead pokemon. So I'd give Heatran a Focus Sash, to especially set up against Terrakion.

If you don't like that, I say try out Lead Terrakion instead of BandTerrrakion.

Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Jolly
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Justified
-Stealth Rock
-Stone Edge
-Close Combat
-Quick Attack (so you can beat Mamoswine leads always with Close Combat+Quick Attack)

Secondly if you want a powerful priority sweeper, why not try out Choice Band Dragonite or Swords Dance Lucario?

I'd personally reccomend Lucario, so Celebi can Baton Pass out of a CB Scizor's/Weavile's/Tyranitar's Pursuit and Lucario 4x resists dark and with Justified, gets an attack boost.

Lucario @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
-Close Combat
-Bullet Punch
-Extremespeed
-Swords Dance

The reason why Adamant is chosen over Jolly is because this Lucario functions LATE GAME and uses priority attacks to sweep, thus speed is not an issue. Plus Lucario is like the fastest OU user of Extremespeed.

Other than those changes, cool team and good luck
 
Thanks for the feedback, I'll certainly look into your suggestions.

I do have a couple of issues though:

Regarding Heatran, I agree Heatran 'loses' to the mons you suggested outright, but to be honest, he's not really trying to beat them as a suicide lead. Mamoswine and Garchomp require two hits to kill balloon Heatran anyway, and that's enough for SR to be set up, and as a plus side, Roar guarantees that Garchomp can't set up at all. Lead Terrakion is a legitimate problem though, since it OHKOs Heatran before it can set up SR, threatens Celebi with the possibility of X-Scissor and is generally a menace to most of my team. That said, it may be a common lead (and it is, I checked the stats), but that's still only around 2% of the time I'll be facing it which is a pretty acceptable risk and it's not like all is lost if I can't get SR up. Your suggestion of sashing Heatran does somewhat address Terrakion as I'll definitely be able to SR, but it pretty much functions like a crappier balloon for the most part against anyone else. Keep in mind that while I say, and in practice, do put Heatran as a lead a lot of the time, it's always a judgement call based on the team preview. Occasionally I will lead with Celebi, or Keldeo or whoever simply because I feel the favourable first turn momentum swing will be more beneficial than having SR up immediately.

Secondly, I would not like to use my only physical attacker as a lead, so lead Terrakion is out, he functions much better as a stall breaker and late game sweeper and pulls his weight in those roles much better, I feel. I might give your suggestions a whirl though since practice very much beats theory.

Lucario is an interesting suggestion, and he's actually one of my favourite Pokemon, but I would prefer not to rely so heavily on having to set up in order to do damage (which was my original reason to go with banded Terrakion). My set is fairly weak in priority though, so I was considering using banded Scizor in place of Terrakion.

Any further thoughts?
 
hi...nice team. Your team is nice but it needs few changes. Celebi should use 252hp,236sdef,20spd timid nature to outspeed ttar,scizor and breloom. Replace hidden power ice over hidden power fire on alakazam to take care of jirachi and scizor because keldeo can deal with the dragons. You also need a strong pirority attacker so try dragonite,scizor,lucario or beloom on your team. The choice is yours. I personally recomand lucario because it get boost when you escape from pursuit from celebi.
Lucario@life orb
252atk,252spd,4def
adamant nature
-close combat
-extreme speed
-bullet punch
-sword dance
after sword dance those pokemon that are faster than lucario is KOed by extreme speed or bullet punch and the slower ones are KOed by close combat.
 
I appreciate the comments but I definitely do not want to run the standard Celebi EV spread since that totally defeats the purpose of the team. The idea is that I don't want to outspeed much of anything, rather I want a slow BP so that I can take a hit and bring in a healthy sweeper. I'd never try to set up on Ttar/scizor with Celebi anyway and I often actually outspeed Scizor even with this spread for some reason.

I have considered HP fire for 'zam, but opted not to for several reasons. HP ice isn't there to revenge dragons or anything like that, I'm aware that I have others on the team able to fulfil that role (Keldeo, as you pointed out), it's there so that I can reliably OHKO dragons and not have to worry about any of them impeding my sweep. The second reason I don't want to take HP fire is because it requires me to drop a speed IV which will cause me to be outsped by other 'Zams. However, it would be nice to have a reliable way to KO the extremely common Scizor, I'll give it a whirl.

You are absolutely correct about me lacking a priority user, that's my main issue at the moment. Again, this new poke would be replacing Terrakion and I don't want a set-up sweeper since the rest of my team features setting up quite heavily. Scizor is currently looking the sexiest option.
 
Don't hesitate and replace Terrakion with Scizor right away. Not only does he provide you with powerful priority and physical attacking power, his Pursuit will remove the obstacles in the way of your Keldeo's sweep. Only a few pokemon, namely Jellicent, Celebi and Slowking, can still wall a Keldeo with a Nasty Plot. Scizor can successfully and efficiently dispose of them with Pursuit. He can even maintain momentum with banded U-turn. I'm pretty sure you know the set so I won't list it.
 
Yep, been testing Scizor out and it's really made a difference! Definitely happy with that swap, thank you.

I also tested out HP Fire on 'Zam and was not as satisfied, couldn't OHKO Ferrothorn out of rain without a boost, so probably couldn't OHKO at +2 in the rain and Scizors are actually better handled by the rest of the team. HP Ice felt much more comfortable to run particularly in situations where I did not have a boost set up, and three fairly fast users means dragons are completely a non issue for this team which is a nice security blanket. I also gave Signal Beam a go instead of Shadow Ball with mixed results, neither seem particularly more useful than the other. I'll stick with Signal Beam for a bit longer because I like having an alternative to Focus Blast when finishing off weakened Hydreigon etc.

So in summary, the new team is thus, in case any of you would like to try it out (feel free to drop a Luvdisc if you like it):

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder Wave
- Baton Pass

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Spd
Modest Nature
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Psychic
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Alakazam (M) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
- Psyshock
- Signal Beam
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Scizor @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn
- Pursuit

Any more suggestions would be absolutely welcome as well, have at me.
 
Tyranitar is also an option over Scizor, for a number of reasons. First off, Choice Banded Tyranitar hits like a monster truck, and absolutely smashes special walls. Furthermore, you noted that Sun teams tend to neuter Celebi somewhat- Tyranitar gives you a sandstorm instead, and that lets you cripple the sun team sweepers. This is necessary since Venasaur's Earthquake deals with Heatran once the Air Balloon is popped (not very difficult). Tyranitar also brings a huge amount of power with his Pursuit, and gives the Lati twins the finger (two of the most common Keldeo counters) thanks to his titanic special defence in sand and his dark typing (immunity to Psyshock). If the lack of speed is an issue, Tyranitar still muscles through a lot of things with a Choice Scarf, as a Scarfed Tyranitar with 252 Speed EV's and a Jolly Nature outruns everything up to and including Timid STARMIE. It's definitely worth considering, in my opinion.

The other issue I kinda see is that Landorus is a tad slow. He often doesn't need a Nasty Plot (in my experience- I tend to use him as a late/mid game sweeper) but a Rock Polish can go a long way, letting him outrun and beat pokemon that otherwise kill him, like weakened Lati@s, scarfed Salamence, and Infernape. I'd personally replace Psychic with Rock Polish.

I know that the standard Smogon set for Scarf Keldeo is the one you're using, but I find that the added type coverage from Hydro Pump/Secret Sword/Icy Wind/Hidden Power Grass comes in handy. Icy Wind still destroys the dragons, but it can also be used when there is a threat Keldeo cannot otherwise kill, slowing it down for another 'mon to take out. Hidden Power Grass is for other water types, especially Rotom-W (that thing is everywhere).
 
if you are not using hp fire over hp ice than replace keldeo with this set
keldeo@choice scarf
252satk,252spd,4def
timid nature
-hydropump
-secret sword
-hidden power bug
-icy wind
hydropump and secret sword are keldeo STAB moves. Hp bug can be used to deal with celebi and starmie that resist it STAB. Finally icy wind can deal with the dragons. Keldeo have enough power to KO dragonite,garchomp,salamence and latios after sleath rock damage.
 
I will definitely consider Tyranitar, my main beef with it is that this is meant to be a non-weather team (not particularly because I hate weather, but more because I hate having to keep weather up), but sandstorm is a type of weather I can play without necessarily needing it at all, so it's definitely feasible and sun teams are definitely a problem (though definitely not unmanageable) since both Keldeo and Celebi are rendered much less useful.

Thank goodness it's one of the less common weathers.

I'm not a huge fan of that Keldeo set though I can see the appeal. I just HATE anything with less than 90 accuracy, Hydro pump included, and having the reliability of Surf to fall back on when 120 power isn't particularly necessary has guaranteed me many wins and HP grass isn't a huge deal for me when Celebi has a ball switching into and setting up on Jellicent and Rotom-W anyway.
 
Just saying, if you wanna baton pass after you take a hit, t-waved mons are now slow, make you move first if you use baton pass
 
Obviously T-wave isn't meant to be used when I'm trying to set up a NP to BP, I'm well aware of its effects. T-wave is there to cripple fast threats before I attempt to sweep to increase my chances of a clean, no fuss thrashing. But you're right, it doesn't get much usage and I'd probably be better off with Recover.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top