I SUSPECT this team to make Leaderboard! [Suspect OU]

kyogrepwns

OVERVIEW:
Hey guys, I'd like to present to you my Suspect Ladder Team (that I'm hoping will make Leadboard if
Latis make the vote)
I've been using this to much success as it suits my playing style perfectly (I loathe big walls like Blissey etc.)
This team is Balanced; Defensively, I think I have all the threats covered pretty well
(Feel free to point out any you think I might have trouble with or ask how I deal with something).
Offensively, this team has quite a few sweepers and all Pokes here have at least a 100 base Offensive stat.
SO, without further adieu, I present to you the team:



THE TEAM AT A GLANCE:

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(All Yellow and Red :naughty: )

AND THE TEAM IN DEPTH...:

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Tyranitar @ Expert Belt
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP, 216 SpDef, 40 Def
Careful nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Pursuit
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
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Comments: My lead, a Special Defensive Tyranitar.
It easily kills Focus Sash Azelf leads.
Later on, I use him to easily crush the Lati that are probably present in every team on Suspect.
I went with Expert Belt due to the fact that Choice Band requires me to stay locked into a move, and I simply couldn't find anywhere else to incorporate the compulsory Stealth Rocks.
In any case, I don't regret this choice since Tyranitar gets quite a few chances to switch in with that kind of Special Defense.
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Jirachi @ Leftovers
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP, 136 Spe, 120 Def
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
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Comments: Jirachi is my first late-game sweeper.
Calm Mind and Wish allow it to beat Blissey.
Latias is competent with CMing up with this guy, so that sucks for me, but once Tyranitar takes her out, this guy has some good sweeping chance.
(Sadly, opponents Tyranitar messes this guy up...)
Wish support for the team is really useful in Platinum and it allows Gyarados to live a lot longer.
Overall, this guy is a nice lil beast.
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Latias @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP, 252 Spe, 252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Surf
- Draco Meteor
- Psychic/HP Fire
- Trick
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Comments: Yes, I do realize that Latios probably does this better, but while I wait, I might as well use his sister ( I think?).
Draco Meteor is the main form of attack and you all know how powerful that is.
Same Special Attack as Salamence.
Surf for Tyranitar (I think only Latios 2HKOs with SR down)
Psychic/HP Fire/? I wasn't sure what to put for the last move, so I went with the second STAB.
Trick is if Blissey starts pissing me off or if I think I can nail a Tyranitar/Scizor with my Specs.
Anyways, I hope Latis are confirmed OU eventually! :toast:
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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP, 36 Spe, 220 Def
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Thunderbolt
- Toxic/HP Grass
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Comments: Zapdos is my Physical Wall.
The EVs and nature along with item are all standard.
Roost for recovery, Heat Wave for the steels and Heracross and coverage, etc.
Thunderbolt for STAB.
The last slot is where I'm a bit confused.
Toxic stalls out Tyranitar and Swampert which is useful for Latias and Jirachi.
Hidden Power Grass doesn't do much to Tyranitar but slaughters Swampert who might carry RestTalk to screw me over.
Thoughts?
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Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP, 28 Spe, 196 Def, 16 Atk, 8 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stone Edge
- Waterfall
- Taunt
- Dragon Dance
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Comments: All my teams simply must have a Bulky Water of some sort.
Gyarados covers so many threats and I use the classic BulkyGyara.
I decided I didn't want too much speed so outspeeding + spe natured base 90s was good enough.
I don't really care too much about Lefties number and I figured this guy will switch in on Heatrans quite a few times too so I just maxed HP.
The Defense EVs were from the DP BulkyGyara (lol, I found it on an old team of mine) and the remainder, I just put it in SDef (whatevs).
I really only see RestTalk and Offensive Gyara nowadays, but the fact that this guy can easily benefit from Jirachi's Wish (resistance to his weaknesses) remedies this.
Dragon Dance allows for a nice late-game sweep.
Overall, this guy is a great asset.
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Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP, 192 Def, 48 Spe, 16 Atk
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SpAtk)
- X-Scissor
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- Swords Dance
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Comments: Scizor is my final Poke and a great one at that. He's more of the "glue" to this team.
Great resistances, access to Roost make him nice defensively.
The bias to his already above average defense is due to the abundance of Tyranitars in Suspect.
48 Spe also allows for him to outspeed standard CB Tyranitar so I can land a solid STAB SE X-Scissor on that ****er.
Swords Dance helps me pose yet another late-game threat. Adamant + 16 EVs granting a bonus point means he isn't weak offensively.
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SO, There's my team and don't forgot to post your thoughts/comments/etc.

Credit to PokemonElite and Smogon for pics. :pimp:

​
 
NOT A SINGLE VIEW?! Man, I must suck at writing these....:( C'mon, this team COULD use some help ppl...(1st 24 Hour Bump I guess)
 
Dude, you don't suck. =)

So first off, Leftovers>Expert Belt on TTar.
Versatility and Durability.

For Jirachi:
CM set is not complete without Sub.
Imo run Lefties, 80 Hp/252 Spe/176 SAtk
Sub/CM/Psychic/Tbolt

So what i'm saying is take out Wish for Sub. SubLefties is pretty effective when few things are going to break your sub.

For the Zapdos, run HP Grass over Toxic-to help SwampertPhobia.

Your Gyara set is great, the exact same set as mine except i use these EVs and nature:

Jolly: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe

This allows Gyarados to outspeed everything including Base 130s after one Dragon Dance. Life Orb would help it guarantee some OHKOs.

For Scizor, its begging for Jolly 252 Spe to outrun TTar and OHKO with a SD Superpower/Brick Break which you are hopefully going to add over Roost.

And Merry Christmas. =D

Edit: To outrun Max Speed Jolly TTar (sometimes seen on DD sets)
 
Thanks for the rate!

For Tyranitar, my goal was to catch Latias quickly and remove it from play with Pursuit, so I prefer the extra power from Choice Band or Expert Belt. But Leftovers is still a good option since I can still really hurt Lati anyways.

For SubJirachi, I've tried it out multiple times, but I find Wish to be too helpful comparatively. Wish support is really helpful, and it still allows me to beat many foes 1-1. But still, with Substitute, I can set up on arrogant Magnezones with CM and have a Sub up in the end I think. So I'll test that.

Yeah, I need Speed on Gyarados....I'm thinking 216 HP/100 Def/ 176 Spe/ 16 Atk. That way I can outspeed max speed Scarf magnezones.

For Scizor, Roost allows me to set up on a bunch of stuff and the HP/Defense EVs make that possible, but ur right about the Fighting move needed to 1 shot Tyranitar.

For Zapdos, I'm considering Light Screen in the last spot because Lati revenges CursePert easily. The other Swamperts aren't such a problem. Any thoughts here?

Thanks for the rate. ANY1 ELSE? Plzz help, ppl!
 
Hey man

Since you went to the liberty of shooting me a PM, I'll try and give your team an in depth a rate as I can. Enjoy =).

At first glance I can already see that your team has problems with DD Salamence - let it get a DD off and its a OHKO on all of your pokemon. I'm not swap any team members out, but lets change them around a bit to help lessen this weakness. At present, a LO Outrage does 71.0 - 84.0% damage to Gyarados, and that is really the bulkiest thing you have at the moment (Zapdos has no Intimidate). You might want to consider changing Gyarados into an even bulkier Rest Talker, with the following moveset:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 SpD

- Waterfall
- Avalanche
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

It will give your team a nice status absorber, and it also takes a maximum of 71% from Outrage, meaning it can always switch in after a kill into SR and still manage to take mence down with Avalanche. This Gyarados also makes an excellent counter for Scizor and almost all Fighting types, surviving against things like Machamp's Stone Edges and SD Infernape's Thunderpunches with HP to spare.

Stealth Rock hurts your team quite bad, but adding a Rapid Spinner would really slow down a team as offensive as this. Instead, I think you should make Jirachi a ScarfRaichi and put it as your lead:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
76 HP, 252 Atk, 180 Spe

- Iron Head
- Trick
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock

Iron Head and its 60% flinch rate with Serene Grace means that suicide leads only get the rocks up against you 40% of the time. It can cripple opposing bulky leads such as Bronzong and Swampert with the scarf, and having done that it can set up SR. If you keep the scarf, however, it becomes an excellent revenge killer for Salamence and can switch into an Outrage with ease and take it out.

Now, the reason I removed SR from Ttar and put it on Jirachi is simply this - if you are using the bulky spread then you need Chpice Band's power to do any significant damage at all. An Expert Belt Pursuit will only do 40.1 - 48.0% damage to a 252/0 Latias, so it can just recover stall you until you since you're not running Crunch. The Dual Screen ones will be the most annoying to face, as behind a Reflect, even on the switch Latias takes less than half its health damage. The removal of Stealth Rock also grants you a free moveset, meaning you can now utilise Crunch to its full potential. Tyranitar is also arguably a lot more useful on suspect than Jirachi is, so moving it from the vulnerable lead position is definitely a good change.

Since now you'll have a choice locked Tyranitar and Jirachi, you'll definitely want to remove Latias' Choice Specs. May I recommend the mono-attack Calm Minder set to you?

Latias @ Leftovers
Timid (+Spe, -SpA)
252 HP, 80 SpA, 176 Spe

- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute

A much better CMer than Jirachi imo. 176 Spe hits 330 Speed, outrunning +ve base 100s (Zapdos and Salamence). The premise is simple - CM up as much as you can, recovering when necessary, and then sweep away the opposing team. The best thing is that if you can get a substitute up as Tyranitar or Weavile switches in, when you switch out the Sub will take the pursuit, giving you a free switch in to your Scizor or Jirachi. This is probably the most effective offensive Latias set imo.

On Zapdos, go with Toxic, as it is a much better move in the suspect metagame. It does a lot more to Tyranitar than HP Grass will ever do, and Swampert won't be enjoying the poison damage with no recovery move any time soon.

I like your specially suited Scizor spread, but just bare in mind that X-Scissor is a 2HKO on Tyranitar, and so if it is running Flamethrower it will have ample time to use it.

That's pretty much everything I can help you with your team. I hope some of the suggestions are actually of some use =).

LR.
 
Legacy Raider said:
Latias @ Leftovers
Timid (+Spe, -SpA)
252 HP, 80 SpA, 176 Spe

- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Dragon Pulse
- Substitute

A much better CMer than Jirachi imo. 176 Spe hits 330 Speed, outrunning +ve base 100s (Zapdos and Salamence). The premise is simple - CM up as much as you can, recovering when necessary, and then sweep away the opposing team. The best thing is that if you can get a substitute up as Tyranitar or Weavile switches in, when you switch out the Sub will take the pursuit, giving you a free switch in to your Scizor or Jirachi. This is probably the most effective offensive Latias set imo.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, however it may not fit your team since you are running the trick specs set on Lati atm. I see CM rachi as a nice suprise, since it is barely present in the current meta due to the rise of physical rachi. If you are looking for a more solid CMer switch Lati over or if the trick specs set isnt working switch it over, and change Rachi to scarf. Scarf rachi could be a nice revenge killer on this team, since I dont really see a revenge killer besides Scizor atm.
 
Thanks guys for the rates.

Gyarados ~ I think the only difference is the RestTalk varient goes Impish while I'm using Adamant. But that's because Gyarados is a nice threat after 1 DD. Also, Zapdos walls just like RestTalk Gyarados. But nonetheless, I will test out that kind of Gyarados.

Jirachi and Latias ~ You guys might be right about this. But I WAS thinking of changing Latias to Latios when that testing time came since he hits SO hard with Specs. But since Latios isn't out yet, I'm simply going with SpecsLatias. Anyways, I'll also test ScarfRachi + CMLatias out since I haven't played with either. :(

Thanks for the suggestions though. ANY1 ELSE?
 
I'm seconding everything that LR said. I think he nailed it, and especially that Gyarados should be ResTalk. Don't rely on Zapdos to be your check against DD Mence, especially without HP Ice.

This team looks great though. My primary purpose in commenting here is that I don't understand how anybody is going to get a good grasp on what Latias does to the OU Metagame if she is only being used as an inferior Latios, which the Specs set certainly is and maybe the SubCMer too, but that is debatable. How will one gain the knowledge to make an educated vote if no one is using the Latias sets that will be used after big brother enters the OU tier (assuming he does)?

I'm sure this argument has been made in other threads but I haven't looked through them ;)
 
Honestly, I think Brick Break or Superpower would be better than X-Scissor, simply because of the coverage (and it lets you hit T-tar hard!).

Really, that X-Scissor really isn't that great on SD Scizor because Steel/Bug is.....pretty awful while Steel/Fighting is a very solid attacking combination, hitting most pokemon neutral.
 
I was going to say that as well, but then I realised that this is for the suspect metagame so X-Scissor's super effective hit on Latias might be worth more than Fighting's coverage. Although saying that, I only just stopped myself from telling you to change it in my post. Brick Break/Superpower will mean that Scizor actually has a chance against Heatran and Magnezone and can hit them hard on the switch in. Really it's a personal choice, but X-scissor is a lot more useful on suspect than it is on standard.

LR.
 
I think the issue is that unless you are hitting latias on the switch (...what latias is going to switch INTO scizor?) Scizor has relatively few chances to actually hit her with x-scissor because he is so much slower. Generally, Scizor switches into Latias and is therefore at risk of getting nailed by Surf or Draco Meteor, both of which hurt quite a lot. Bullet Punch is probably more useful at getting Latias than X-Scissor then.

But then again, with that logic, Scizor shouldn't use Pursuit :/
 
Yeah, you guys are right on that. Since my comp. won't let me edit this thread I'll tell you what I've changed:

Gyarados ~ Lead. I've turned this to a RestTalker since the numerous Jirachi leads can hit Tyranitar for Super Effective and there's barely any Azelf Suicide Leads. Intimidate at least remedies the Jirachi's usefulness at first.

Scizor ~ I've been using Brick Break > X Scissor. But Brick Break hits Tyranitar for a total of 300 power while X Scissor hits for 240. So X Scissor might be useful in other areas as well, like LR said, for Latias who is omnipresent in Suspect.

I'm currently testing all of what LR said, and its been working pretty well. I went 9W-1L on a testing account for anyone interested. (Thanks for your amazing rate, LR!)

@8Ball, Latias' is probably a better support Poke, but with all the Tyranitars and Pursuit Steels running around, it can't get a chance to shine in Wish passing, its main advantage over Latios. I prefer the power (I'm considering a switch to Grass Knot over Psychic in my SpecsLati when using this version of my team simply to 2HKO Tyranitars)
 
Thanks for the PM, sorry I couldn't get to this earlier I was a bit ubsy over Christmas. Leftovers > Expert Belt on Tyranitar and throw those 40 Defense EVs into attack.

Watch out for gyarados, With Waterfall, Ice Fang, Stone Edge and Earthquake it can OHKO your whole team after a DD. Fortunately gyarados can't carry all these moves at one so be wary of what you switch in. Most of the time I would recommend switching your Jirachi into gyarados as Earthquake is the least common move on its set.

Also Ice Punch Lucario can be a big pain in the ass for your team, so I suggest changing your Zapdos to the following spread:

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 Hp, 176 Spe, (rest in defense)
Thunderbolt
Heatwave
Roost
Hp Grass

With this spread you will outspeed all Lucarios and never be OHKOed by Adamant Lucarios +2 Life Orb Extremespeed after SR. I suggest HP grass because rest talk + curse + waterfall swampert can be troublesome otherwise.

On scizor I would reccomend replacing X-Scissor with Brick Break on Scizor so you aren't totally walled by Heatran, Skarmory and steel types in general. Don't worry about lacking the SE hit on latias, most will try to run and if they don't bullet punch will still do a good amount.

I would advise against using Psychic on Latias, one wrong prediction and Tyranitar and Scizor will come in and screw you over with Pursuit. I would probably use Draco Meteor in that spot, Scizor is 2HKOed by surf so it isnt that necessary to use Hp fire.
 
I'd slap Hidden Power Grass on Zapdos. You seem to have shaky times with Swampert already with this team other than possibly Latias (well, Ice Beam still hurts). Toxic overall isn't a bad option, but the Pokemon you'll catch most of the time won't mind it (Swampert isn't switching in for fear of Hidden Power Grass). But with Latias running amock, it might not be a bad option.

I find the main problem with Choice users to have one rule of thumb: if your name isn't Alakazam or a mono Psychic-type, find a different move other than Psychic. Very simple: you risk losing Latias to a Pursuit user in this way. I highly recommend either Dragon Pulse, Thunderbolt, or Roost. Dragon Pulse is good for consistency. Roost is helpful once you've tricked your item off to someone and allows Latias to recover HP. And finally Thunderbolt is moreso a filler move, but it is possibly your best bet against non-DD Gyarados.

I think the two biggest problems with this team are as follows. An enemy Gyarados could be a posable threat, especially if you don't know the moveset. Earthquake / Waterfall / Stone Edge shuts down a lot after a Dragon Dance. Actually, the Life Orb variant has a 58% chance to OHKO Latias with Stealth Rock down. This can obviously mean trouble if Gyarados gets this far, and the best way to handle it is something I don't recommend: switching to Gyarados to Intimidate it and then once it's low on health have Scizor finish it off. But continuing this process is dangerous. Stealth Rock will take a toll on your Gyarados, possibly leaving it at 50% when all the damage is done (possibly, btw).

Well, might as well point out a few more. DDSalamence, as presented, can put this team into foothold position. And finally, Swords Dnace Lucario is going to be able to OHKO everything with Stone Edge and Close Combat after a Swords Dance just about. Scared yet? Thought so.

So here's what I recommend for you.

Lucario, Gyarados, and Salamence. Pity you can't have a counter to all three of them with just one Pokemon. The former two could be beat with Speed and something that at least resists ExtremeSpeed. Feesibly, you can handle Salamence if they're locked onto Outrage. But that can be a problem. Suppose that they use Dragon Claw / Earthquake / Outrage instead (don't doubt this: Magnezone support and this set is nearly gold IMO). So here's your solution. The former two could be stopped with a Timid Heatran with Hidden Power Electric. But you need Timid because otherwise you lose the punch against Adamant Gyarados. Jolly ones are harder to take down with the Speed for them, but luckily Latias or Jirachi can handle those situations possibly (Jirachi needs Earthquake absent while Latias needs Ice Fang absent). Your Gyarados is handling anything such as EQ / Waterfall / Ice Fang. But remember: this assumes that the DDGyarados is Jolly, NOT Adamant. However, your Gyarados can handle the final combination of moves even if Adamant thankfully. Back to what we're talking about:

Heatran @ Choice Scarf
~ Fire Blast
~ Earth Power
~ Hidden Power Electric
~ Filler
nature: Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

The filler can include anything from Explosion, Dragon Pulse, and Stealth Rock. Anyway, this can handle Lucario and at least Adamant DDGyarados. With Dragon Pulse you -can- handle Salamence provided Stealth Rock is down.

On Scizor, whenever I recommend Roost, you should perhaps ditch X-Scissor and use Brick Break. Bug / Steel doesn't offer the best of coverage. Neither does Fighting / Steel really, but it's passable (Zapdos, Gyarados, Moltres. Notice a trend? Yeah, Stealth Rock!) Bug / Steel leaves you problems with other Steel-types... Granted you're not really beating Skarmory unless you're catching it with Roost (which you aren't because you're faster than Skarmory now).

Legacy Raider brought up Scarf Jirachi. If you decide to use this instead, use Choice Band Tyranitar. Otherwise, this team could be in a tight position against Stall-teams (and it's kind of pushing it here already). Since Wish / CM Jirachi was your best bet before, it's up to Tyranitar to take that place.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
~ Crunch
~ Stone Edge
~ Pursuit
~ Aqua Tail
nature: Adamant
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe

You can use the SpD oriented Tyranitar, but use Earthquake > Aqua Tail if you do so.

I hope I helped somewhat, but otherwise good luck.
 
Hey, First off, I gotta thank you guys for these in-depth rates. I'm going say how I addressed the threats originally, and what I can probably do now:

DD Salamence: was the first threat brought up. The idea would probably be to get Gyarados in the moment its going to DD, otherwise it probably won't do much damage. Especially since I've switched my Gyarados to the RestTalker varient. For the much more offensive versions of DDMence, (I don't really see BulkyMence much..but, w.e) I have to get Scizor in on the expected Outrage. From that point, among Roost + Swords Dance + Bullet Punch, I have to land my KO on Salamence. Of course, before it gets confused and hits with a Fire move. This is a pretty risky endeavor, but it HAS been working to some degree of success.

Lucario: Another issue brought up although I don't really find it too large of a threat. I believe I have two of the top counters to this guy, Gyarados and Zapdos. I mean, Lucario DOES have the movepool to hit these guys (Stone Edge), but the fact that I CAN KO this guy before he KOs me should make it a much safer approach for me than the opponent. In any case, all Lucarios that I've seen run ice Punch, making a RestTalk Gyara. more than capable of defeating this. ALSO, Panamaxis's suggestion of a speedier Zapdos seems like an excellent suggestion. I don't believe Jolly versions of Lucario can 2HKO Impish RestTalk Gyara after Intimidate has been factored in, even with LO.

Gyarados: For a beast as such, my counters are sketchy. Between Jirachi and Zapdos, Gyarados MUST have Water STAB and the EdgeQuake combination. The bulkier Jirachi CAN survive a +1 Earthquake w/ LO, I'm pretty sure and its an OHKO back in any case. Zapdos doesn't stand much of a chance against Stone Edge varients but can OHKO others. My own Gyarados had Stone Edge, but the case of Salamence has forced a switch to Avalanche, but Stone Edge still hits Mence for Super Effective, but probably not OHKO. SO...that's one spot where I have to make a choice.

Like Legacy Raider said, I could use ScarfJirachi and have an easy Revenge Killer to ALL of the Pokes listed above if I'm running Trick + Elemental Punches. In that case, I would lose my greatest weapon against Stall teams and probably my best Late-game sweeper besides Scizor, who many teams have multiple counters for. BUT to make up for power against Stall, I'd have to use a 4 attack BandTar like Colonel M suggested. At this point, I'd lose Stealth Rocks which is greatly beneficial to an offensive team such as mine. Jirachi COULD use this, but then I fear a loss of coverage, again. Also, if Jirachi became a Scarfer and has Iron Head (which is a crucial move as well), I'd have extra insurance on Tyranitar making Scizor less useful. Any thoughts as to this, ppl?

These rates have been really helpful, and I've taken most of the suggestions into account, but I can't change them on this particular thread due to my sucky computer.....sorry about that, but I've summarized most of that in this reply.

ONCE AGAIN, thanks for the rates ppl!
 
CLEARLY no problems with Latias, as this team looks completely centralized around not letting opposing Latias do anything. Classic example of an extremely centralized Suspect Test metagame.

Your team is probably the top 6 used Pokemon on the suspect ladder... But I see Swampert problems.
 
Alright. Just this tidbit:
Lucario: Another issue brought up although I don't really find it too large of a threat. I believe I have two of the top counters to this guy, Gyarados and Zapdos. I mean, Lucario DOES have the movepool to hit these guys (Stone Edge), but the fact that I CAN KO this guy before he KOs me should make it a much safer approach for me than the opponent. In any case, all Lucarios that I've seen run ice Punch, making a RestTalk Gyara. more than capable of defeating this. ALSO, Panamaxis's suggestion of a speedier Zapdos seems like an excellent suggestion. I don't believe Jolly versions of Lucario can 2HKO Impish RestTalk Gyara after Intimidate has been factored in, even with LO.
Click to expand...
And here's the problem. I'd sooner use ExtremeSpeed on Zapdos after I've used Swords Dance before I attempt to use Stone Edge. If you use RestTalk Gyara however, especially Impish, then this is less of an issue. Even so, your old Gyarados is still taking a number from +1 Stone Edge (Swords Dance while Gyarados switches in and Intimidates). Especially with Stealth Rock factored into this, you're in trouble if you face this variant. Thankfully, as you've stated it is very uncommon.
Dumbass said:
CLEARLY no problems with Latias, as this team looks completely centralized around not letting opposing Latias do anything. Classic example of an extremely centralized Suspect Test metagame.

Your team is probably the top 6 used Pokemon on the suspect ladder... But I see Swampert problems
Click to expand...
What a quality rate...
 
@ Colonel M: Yeah, but is it worth sacrificing Lucario do get +2 Extremespeed on Zapdos? I don't think that's defeating Zapdos anytime soon. I see Zapdos taking the most damage on a mispredicted switch-in. I feel that if Gyarados goes RestTalk then Zapdos can be switched with:

Salamence @ Leftovers
Jolly 252 HP/180 Def/76 Spe
Dragon Claw/Outrage
EQ
DD
Roost

Standard BulkyMence but it handles Lucario and provides the team less stress on Physical sweepers with Intimidate. Not to mention, keeping DD on this means I still keep a late-game threat, and a good one at that for this particular metagame.
If I switch to this, I think a Choice Scarf Metagross over Scizor will benefit me EVEN more. Max Speed on ScarfGross outspeeds any neutral natured +1 Gyarados. That means I can switch in and revenge many of the threats listed on this threat.

ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS SWITCH?

@ Groggy Realm: I've seen so many more ScarfJirachi's than my CM version on Suspect....and Zapdos probably isn't as popular as it is in Standard.....making more of a case for my using Physically Defensive Salamence. AND You DO realize this is the RATE MY TEAM forum right?

~Kyogrepwns
 
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