Ice Punch-Better than Night Slash/Leaf Blade for Gallade?

SNX7

I've started breeding Ralts to evolve into Gallade again, and I've been going over and over my movesets, and which final attack would provide the most type coverage. I was trying to decide between Leaf Blade and Night Slash. Leaf Blade has better power, but Night Slash hits Psychics SE (The only type CC and Psycho Cut don't hit at least neutral) Then it occured to me, if I breed Ralts in my Emerald, I can give it an Elemental Punch to fill up that last slot. I looked at my possibilitys, and Ice Punch actually seems the best for the slot. Here is what I've done for the last hour:

-Close Combat
-Psycho Cut
-Night Slash
-Thunder Wave

Types hit for SE:
Normal
Ice
Rock
Dark
Steel
Fighting
Poison
Psychic
Ghost

Types Hit Neutral:
Electric
Grass
Ground
Water
Fire
Dragon
Bug
Flying

No types NFE

-CC
-Psycho Cut
-Thunder Wave
-Leaf Blade

Types Hit SE:
Normal
Ice
Rock
Dark
Steel
Fighting
Poison
Water
Ground

Types Hit Neutral:
Electric
Grass
Fire
Dragon
Bug
Flying
Psychic
Ghost

No NFE

Now, here's the same sets as above, but with Ice Punch:

SE:
Normal
Ice
Rock
Dark
Steel
Fighting
Poison
Grass
Ground
Flying
Dragon

Neutral:
Electric
Ghost
Bug
Fire
Water
Psychic

So overall:

Standard w/Night Slash-
SE: 9
Neutral: 8

Standard w/Leaf Blade:
SE: 9
Neutral: 8

Standard w/Ice Punch
SE: 11
Neutral: 6

Ice Punch seems the superior choice to me. Hits 11 of 17 types SE, neutral to all types, and it has a BP of 75, stronger than Night Slash, weaker than Leaf Blade. So, is it worth breeding Ralts on Emerald to get Ice Punch for Gallade's last slot?
 
I wouldn't. Leaf Blade is pretty foolish, the only thing you'd ever use it on is Swampert -- everything else is hit just as hard by a STAB Close Combat.

Same goes for Ice Punch actually. The only reason you would ever use it is for Garchomp or Salamence, both of which outspeed Gallade and hit it where it's weak (physical defense) anyway -- everything else is hit harder by a STAB Close Combat (shut up I know Zapdos).

Night Slash is great because it can hit Dusknoir, which Close Combat cannot.
 
As long as the rest of the moves are level-up moves, that's an awesome moveset, and a beautiful catch/idea. If they're not all level-up moves though (too lazy to check) then they'd be illegal, right?
 
Thunder Wave is taught by TM, and Close Combat/Psycho Cut are both level up moves, making Ice Punch perfectly legal.

Surgo:
I was thinking about Dusknoir/Chomp when I made this thread to. It also depends on the team you're building. In your status/flinch haxing Togekiss team, Ice Punch may actually be usfull to Gallade. If you could paralyze Chomp/Mence/Dragonite, I believe Gallade would outspeed them. I havn't seen a single Gallade with an elemental punch either, so IMO, they would have much of a reason to switch out. I guess it all depends on the rest of your team.
 
I guess Night Slash and Close Combat have almost perfect coverage (only resisted by Heracross and Toxicroak), and STAB Psycho Cut goes well with it, and it also hurts Weezing and other fighters.

I'd throw in Bulk Up, if I wanted to cover it's low def as well as boost it's attack, WoW, to take Physical sweepers down, or SD, to start a sweep.
 
Yea, that's what I figured. I was talking about Surgo's Flinch team, (which I model'd my team after) Togekiss can Paralyze Chomp with Body Slam(or just flinch it and kill it) allowing Gallade to outspeed it later if it comes in.
 
Will-o-Wisp is a better option on Gallade than Thunder Wave IMO, as it helps out his piss-poor defense. Of course you'd have to watch out for Heracross, but then again you could predict the switch and Psycho Cut..........
 
I wouldn't run Choice Scarf. Gallade can take a hit on the Special Side, and help your team out by status'ing, and then attacking. Why waste that with a Choice Scarf?

Also, this is turning into a Gallade disscusion, which it isn't. I'm looking for opinions on what people think of Ice Punch over Night Slash in the standard moveset.
 
Just pointing out if you EV Gallade to have 236 HP / 222 Atk / 52 SpDef, he can survive one Specsmence Draco Meteor and OHKO with Ice Punch.
 
That's great. Hopefully Surgo looks back at this thread, I'm wondering why he recomended 108 Hp/252 atk/148 spdef in the Analysis topic. Ice Punch would definatly be a surprise on WiFi though.
 
That's great. Hopefully Surgo looks back at this thread, I'm wondering why he recomended 108 Hp/252 atk/148 spdef in the Analysis topic. Ice Punch would definatly be a surprise on WiFi though
Click to expand...
Maximizes special defense...you'd need to take EVs out of Attack and put them into HP/Special Defense (even split) to take a Draco Meteor 100% of the time (specifically you'd need 4 more HP, or 16 EVs).
 
Ice punch is useless, consider it only useful on Garchomp/Mence/Dragonite, and I don't see them switching in against Gallade.
 
Surgo said:
Maximizes special defense...you'd need to take EVs out of Attack and put them into HP/Special Defense (even split) to take a Draco Meteor 100% of the time (specifically you'd need 4 more HP, or 16 EVs).
Click to expand...

Alright, that's what I thought.

As to Ice Punch being usless, how is being able to OHKO Salamence/Garchomp/Dragonite usless?
 
GonE said:
Ice punch is useless, consider it only useful on Garchomp/Mence/Dragonite, and I don't see them switching in against Gallade.
Click to expand...

Don't forget Gliscor, Torterra, Celebi, Exeggcutor, and perhaps even Tropius, Xatu, or Jumpluff (although those last three aren't likely to be problems, anyway).

Of course, Night Slash would be more useful for Starmie and ghost types, while Leaf Blade would be more useful against Swampert and other water types.
 
How is it going to survive the Physical dragons?

Close combat does as much as Leaf Blade does on waters (exept swampert), who is mauled by Close Combat anyways.

I'll give you Gliscor, but Celebi and Exeggcutor are hit by Night Slash anyways.
 
Do I really have to explain it again

Close Combat on Milotic: 100 bp + STAB = 150

Leaf Blade on Milotic: 75 BP + SE 150
 
GonE said:
Do I really have to explain it again

Close Combat on Milotic: 100 bp + STAB = 150

Leaf Blade on Milotic: 75 BP + SE 150
Click to expand...

Actually Close Combat = 180 BP

But you are right, I didn't take this into consideration. My Milotic has been KO'ed many times by Leaf Blade Gallade
 
GonE said:
How is it going to survive the Physical dragons?

Close combat does as much as Leaf Blade does on waters (exept swampert), who is mauled by Close Combat anyways.

I'll give you Gliscor, but Celebi and Exeggcutor are hit by Night Slash anyways.
Click to expand...

(Grass resists Dark, so Ice Punch does more than twice the damage to Celebi or Exeggcutor than Night Slash does.) <--- Ignore this - I was wrong, here.

In the case of Celebi, with max Attack on Gallade and no EVs on Celebi, Ice Punch does 51%-61% damage, whereas Night Slash does a measly 24%-28% damage. For Exeggcutor, it's 81%-96% damage by Ice Punch compared with 37%-44% damage by Night Slash. (EDIT: Hmmm... maybe my damage calculator has a flaw... I'll have to check that - according to serebii, Dark is not weak against grass - so double the numbers... but Night Slash has only power 70 to Ice Punch's 75 - UPDATE: Seems my damage calculator had Grass resistant to Dark and Dragon, for some reason)

Oh, and there are instances where Leaf Blade would beat out Close Combat on waters - specifically, Starmie. Indeed, Leaf Blade is better than Night Slash on Starmie, so you can remove Starmie from the advantages to Night Slash.
 
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