Icy Wind Gengar Destroying The Ou.Needs some looking over.

[ToxaWrecks]

Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
I wanted to have something that could help not get outsspead by priority like sucker punch. helps do this nicely providing psychic terrain.I wannted a fast team so i could almost always hit first so theres no priority and no problem.This is the classic scarf smogon Lele set except made modest to het everything just that much harder.

Slowbro (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Future Sight
- Thunder Wave
- Teleport
is my physical pivot.I like rocky helmet because on things than like to U-turn or make a lot of contact i like to be able to punish.Scald can get a burn every now and then.Future Sight lets me stack insane amounts of damage especially since it it is in psychic terrain being boosted.T-wave lets me get speed control over all others by paralyzing them and giving them a 50% chance to not do anything.Teleport gives me a slow pivot.

Corviknight (M) @ Shed Shell
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 SpD
Impish Nature
- Body Press
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
Corviknight is a really good defog that deserves possibly #1 defogger having only 2 weaknesses that both and can both counter.I used shed shell so i don't get trapped by things like Magnet Pull from .I used body press to get rid of the threatening my .U-turn is another good pivot move.

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Tomb
- Knock Off
- U-turn
I put rock tomb on Lando so he can outspeed many scarfers and the common on switch in.Leftovers is for longevity and the rest is pretty common knowledge.Eq is for things like and overall it hits hard.Knock Off is for getting items off other mons and u-turn is a good pivot.

Gengar (M) @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Wave
- Focus Blast
- Icy Wind
I was thinking"what would be a cool mon to use that I never use?"I though Gengar was cool because it is a fast special attacker with icy wind.This is good for slowing down mons and getting clean 1 or 2 hit KOs on mons like the dragons and Lando.Shadow Ball hits almost everything.Sludge Wave takes care of all fairy types in Ou and many more.Focus Blast is for things such as ,,and:Tyranitar that hits really hard on all of them.

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
I have to use Heatran because it prevents from sweeping me and overall is a really good trapper.Magma storm traps mons in.Ep is for other and Toxapex getting trapped.Taunt helps prevent things like from using soft boiled,Pex from using recover,and the Slows from using slack of.Sr is for hazards because it is always good to have hazards.

Pls feel free to leave ways to make this team better.I would love to hear from you.

 

[ironwater]

Hey there! I’m here to give you my thoughts on the team as well as advices to improve it.

From what I have understand, you have built this team based on Gengar . In my opinion it’s a very cool Pokemon to use and it’s a bit underrated as people often chose to run Dragapult instead; but Gengar can do things that Dragapult can’t and thus have somehow a niche in OU. I think that it can fit well in a balance team as it’s a great offensive pick tanks to it great speed tier and a solid stallbreaker. I don’t like much your set however (but I’ll come back on this later). Regarding the remaining Pokemon, I feel that the sets are overall great and the team is well thought even if you’re pretty weak on the special side for a balance as you lack a special wall and may just stray up lose to Specs Dragapult spamming Shadow Ball. Tapu Lele is a great wallbreaker but I don’t think that it pairs up well with Gengar as they both struggle against the same Pokemon and even if Psychic terrain can help Gengar avoiding some Sucker Punch, you can also use status moves like Substitute to beat Sucker Punch users. Thus, I don’t think you have to change the whole structure of the team as it is already pretty solid but modifying a bit your defensive and offensive options as well as some of your sets may help making the team more efficient in the current metagame.


Let’s move to the changes I would made:

Major changes:

-->: Tapu Lele is a beast but I don’t like Scarf Lele because, in this meta Lele is dealt with defensively and with a Choice Scarf you’re losing most of your damage output. I said in the intro that your team was pretty weak on the special defensive side and thus I think you can play something like Blissey to deal with most special attackers, pivot with Teleport (into Gengar for instance) and set up Rocks, freeing a moveslot on Heatran. T-Wave is an option over Rocks to slow down things for Gengar. Here is a classic Blissey set you can use:

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- Teleport


: The star of the team! I don’t think that the set that will make Gengar shine the most is a non-lock set with 4 offensive moves. I really think that a Sub Nasty Plot variant can be way more threating and act as a wincon because you only need two moves to hit everything. Also, I don’t really see the use of Icy Wind as faster threats like Dragapult get OHKO by Shadow Ball anyway and OHKO you before you can slow them down. Also, Icy Wind as not enough power to kill Garchomp or Lando so you rather just Shadow Ball them too. Thus, here is the deadly set I would use on Gengar:

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Some Calcs

252 SpA Gengar Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 292-344 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Gengar Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 276-328 (77.3 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

: As I removed Tapu Lele , I think you need to have something else for speed control and Lando-T can fulfill this role pretty well. As you already have a Rock Setter and a Defogger, I think you can use Scarf Lando here. The moveset is classic: Edgequake for coverage, U-Turn for pivoting and Knock Off to annoy things and deal massive damage to Psychic and Ghost types. By the way, I don’t think Rock Tomb is useful on a non-lead Lando. Indeed, against Dragapult , you don’t want to Rock Tomb him and let him an opportunity to switch out as you can already use Knock Off to OHKO him. Anyway, here is the set (standard Smogon spread for Scarf Lando):

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off


Minor changes:

: Not much to say here. The spread is fine and Rocky Helmet is a useful item even if you rather have Heavy-Duty Boots to be harder to pressure with hazards as Slowbro doesn’t really like to come and punish U-Turn. The main change here would be to give him Slack Off so that you can consistently beat Pokemon like Urshifu-r and use Slowbro defensive capacities without having to switch to regen your health. You can remove T-Wave as you don’t particularly need it and if you really want to slow down things you rather have it on Blissey. Thus, this would be the set I would use:

Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Teleport


: Your Corviknight set is pretty classic. You can use a full Physical Defensive spread as you have Blissey to sponge special hits and you rather maximize your physical bulk to deal with Bisharp and Kartana . Leftovers are also more helpful in my opinion because even if Shed Shell can help against Magnezone you will eventually get Knock Off by Rillaboom or Kartana . Thus, as Leftovers bring more utility in all other Matchups and don’t change much against Mag+Rilla/Kart you rather have them. Here is the set:

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Body Press


: I only put Toxic instead of Rocks as Rocks are on Blissey . You can try to put T-Wave on Blissey and Rocks on Heatran but Toxic may help you pressure some switch-ins like Swampert and Slowking . (I aso put 132 Speed EVs to outspeed the Smogon spread). Here is the set:

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic / Stealth Rock

With all that, here is the past of this new version of the team:

The past

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Body Press

Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Teleport

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Teleport

Hope this was helpful, thanks for reading and have a good day!

 

[HISELOISOVER9000]

Hey there! I’m here to give you my thoughts on the team as well as advices to improve it.

From what I have understand, you have built this team based on Gengar . In my opinion it’s a very cool Pokemon to use and it’s a bit underrated as people often chose to run Dragapult instead; but Gengar can do things that Dragapult can’t and thus have somehow a niche in OU. I think that it can fit well in a balance team as it’s a great offensive pick tanks to it great speed tier and a solid stallbreaker. I don’t like much your set however (but I’ll come back on this later). Regarding the remaining Pokemon, I feel that the sets are overall great and the team is well thought even if you’re pretty weak on the special side for a balance as you lack a special wall and may just stray up lose to Specs Dragapult spamming Shadow Ball. Tapu Lele is a great wallbreaker but I don’t think that it pairs up well with Gengar as they both struggle against the same Pokemon and even if Psychic terrain can help Gengar avoiding some Sucker Punch, you can also use status moves like Substitute to beat Sucker Punch users. Thus, I don’t think you have to change the whole structure of the team as it is already pretty solid but modifying a bit your defensive and offensive options as well as some of your sets may help making the team more efficient in the current metagame.


Let’s move to the changes I would made:

Major changes:

-->: Tapu Lele is a beast but I don’t like Scarf Lele because, in this meta Lele is dealt with defensively and with a Choice Scarf you’re losing most of your damage output. I said in the intro that your team was pretty weak on the special defensive side and thus I think you can play something like Blissey to deal with most special attackers, pivot with Teleport (into Gengar for instance) and set up Rocks, freeing a moveslot on Heatran. T-Wave is an option over Rocks to slow down things for Gengar. Here is a classic Blissey set you can use:

View attachment 339397
Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
- Teleport


: The star of the team! I don’t think that the set that will make Gengar shine the most is a non-lock set with 4 offensive moves. I really think that a Sub Nasty Plot variant can be way more threating and act as a wincon because you only need two moves to hit everything. Also, I don’t really see the use of Icy Wind as faster threats like Dragapult get OHKO by Shadow Ball anyway and OHKO you before you can slow them down. Also, Icy Wind as not enough power to kill Garchomp or Lando so you rather just Shadow Ball them too. Thus, here is the deadly set I would use on Gengar:

View attachment 339398
Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Some Calcs

252 SpA Gengar Icy Wind vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-Therian: 292-344 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Gengar Icy Wind vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 276-328 (77.3 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

: As I removed Tapu Lele , I think you need to have something else for speed control and Lando-T can fulfill this role pretty well. As you already have a Rock Setter and a Defogger, I think you can use Scarf Lando here. The moveset is classic: Edgequake for coverage, U-Turn for pivoting and Knock Off to annoy things and deal massive damage to Psychic and Ghost types. By the way, I don’t think Rock Tomb is useful on a non-lead Lando. Indeed, against Dragapult , you don’t want to Rock Tomb him and let him an opportunity to switch out as you can already use Knock Off to OHKO him. Anyway, here is the set (standard Smogon spread for Scarf Lando):

View attachment 339399
Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off


Minor changes:

: Not much to say here. The spread is fine and Rocky Helmet is a useful item even if you rather have Heavy-Duty Boots to be harder to pressure with hazards as Slowbro doesn’t really like to come and punish U-Turn. The main change here would be to give him Slack Off so that you can consistently beat Pokemon like Urshifu-r and use Slowbro defensive capacities without having to switch to regen your health. You can remove T-Wave as you don’t particularly need it and if you really want to slow down things you rather have it on Blissey. Thus, this would be the set I would use:

View attachment 339402
Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Teleport


: Your Corviknight set is pretty classic. You can use a full Physical Defensive spread as you have Blissey to sponge special hits and you rather maximize your physical bulk to deal with Bisharp and Kartana . Leftovers are also more helpful in my opinion because even if Shed Shell can help against Magnezone you will eventually get Knock Off by Rillaboom or Kartana . Thus, as Leftovers bring more utility in all other Matchups and don’t change much against Mag+Rilla/Kart you rather have them. Here is the set:
View attachment 339400
Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Body Press


: I only put Toxic instead of Rocks as Rocks are on Blissey . You can try to put T-Wave on Blissey and Rocks on Heatran but Toxic may help you pressure some switch-ins like Swampert and Slowking . (I aso put 132 Speed EVs to outspeed the Smogon spread). Here is the set:

View attachment 339401
Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic / Stealth Rock

With all that, here is the past of this new version of the team:

The past

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 128 SpD / 132 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Taunt
- Toxic

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn
- Body Press

Slowbro @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Scald
- Slack Off
- Future Sight
- Teleport

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 Def / 244 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off

Gengar @ Black Sludge
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast

Blissey (F) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Stealth Rock
- Teleport

Hope this was helpful, thanks for reading and have a good day!

Great advice but for the lando set use 252 speed with 4 defense, other spread is outdated in the current metagame. also, for corvik night I know full def can help with kartana and bisharp but the 88 spdef is needed because lele can wreck blissey with psyshock and with this spread it still deals with kartana and bisharp. Also, I personally like sludge wave over substitute on gengar since it’s a very powerful stab that also hits unaware clefable better but I suppose that is preference

 

[ironwater]

Great advice but for the lando set use 252 speed with 4 defense, other spread is outdated in the current metagame. also, for corvik night I know full def can help with kartana and bisharp but the 88 spdef is needed because lele can wreck blissey with psyshock and with this spread it still deals with kartana and bisharp. Also, I personally like sludge wave over substitute on gengar since it’s a very powerful stab that also hits unaware clefable better but I suppose that is preference

Hey! Thanks for your feedback. You mentioned three different points, so I'll give an answer for each of them.

: Honestly, I just put the recommended spread here. I took a look at the Smogon analysis and yeah it seems outdated because here the classic 252/252/4 is used. I don't know the details of why it wasn't used with 252 Speed EVs, maybe to have a slower U-Turn than other Scarf Lando (as going from 4 to 12 EVs in Def don't help much against anything). I looked at the Crown Tundra Speed Tiers and the only notable threat you don't outspeed with 244 Speed and outspeed with 252 is Dracozolt under Sand. But yeah, I think it's enough to justify a full speed Lando. This may not make a huge difference, but I edited this, thanks for pointing it out.


: I don't agree with you on this point. I know that the Smogon proposed spread for Defog Corviknight suggest to use 88 Spe Def EVs but these don't help against Tapu Lele because you are still 2HKO by Focus Blast and smack by Thunderbolt if it has it. Otherwise, Psyshock and Moonblast don't have enough power in both case and Psychic is not an issue even if you have no Spe Def investment unless it's Modest Lele and Rocks are up. Anyway, the team has three other answers to Lele which are Blissey , Slowbro , and Heatran and even if they all are weak to one specific move, they both take Psychic very well so I don't even see why the opposing Lele would use Psychic against such a team. I know that the Corvi spread with 88 Spe Def has enough physical bulk to deal with Kartana and Bisharp . However, the team is extremely weak to both of them without Corvi and if you happen to get weaken by repeated Rocks cheap you rather have a maximal physical bulk to maximize your chance of surviving to both of them. This is particularly helpful against Choice Banded Bisharp with Beat up which a rising threat in OU.

Here are some calcs to illustrate this point:

Calcs

Against Lele:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 306-360 (76.5 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 88 SpD Corviknight: 203-239 (50.7 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

With no Spe Def:

252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Corviknight in Psychic Terrain: 164-193 (41 - 48.2%) -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

: I think that Sludge Wave, even if it's a great secondary STAB is much more situational than Substitute. Sure it can help against Unaware Clefable: clefable: but there is already an Heatran who can come pretty freely on him and trap him with Magma Storm + Taunt and Toxic. Moreover, as Poison type's offensive coverage is rather bad, Sludge Wave isn't that much useful in a lot of situations because Shadow Ball + Focus Blast already hit for at least neutral damage the whole tier. Substitute seems more useful here because against Pokemon that can't threaten you, you just need to set up a Substitute and thus don't have to predict what will come in. Sub also helps a lot against defensive Pokemon that try to cripple you with Thunder Wave like Blissey . Thus, even if Sludge Wave isn't a stupid idea, I'm not really convinced that it would be more useful than Substitute.

 

[ToxaWrecks]

I understand the concern with icy wind but it usually gets the job done on things like Lando and Chomp after some chip.Plus sub does nothing for agaistst Infiltrator Pult.

Anyone else is welcome to help me.

 

[ironwater]

I understand the concern with icy wind but it usually gets the job done on things like Lando and Chomp after some chip.Plus sub does nothing for agaistst Infiltrator Pult.

Anyone else is welcome to help me.

Yeah sure Sub doesn't help against Pult and it's not here for Pult. Pult is not that much of an issue as you have a Blissey able to come on him and Teleport to regain momentum and it cannot even come on Gengar without risking to die on a Shadow Ball. Substitute is used to ease the need of predictions on force switchs as well as avoid moves like T-Wave from Pokemon like Blissey. Combined with Nasty Plot and the Black Sludge, it allows Gengar to somehow bruteforce through a lot of defensive cores that cannot prevent him to click Sub and set up. If you really don't like Sub you can use an attack instead but Sludge Wave would still remain better than Icy Wind in my opinion. Dealing good damages on Landorus-T and Garchomp is not enough to make this move a good option as both get heavily cheap by Shadow Ball and cannot reliably recover their health. Moreover, even if Shadow Ball doesn't 2HKO, you still have Corviknight and Slowbro to pivot around and force them to take damage. So I really think having Shadow Ball is enough to deal with team in particular. As for a potential third offensive move, Sludge Wave is a good neutral STAB, hitting harder than Shadow Ball so I think it would bring more utility than Icy Wind. Thus, in my opinion, Substitue > Sludge Wave > Icy Wind. Also, Nasty Plot is not removable as you need it to threaten most defensive answers and Gengar is your only setup sweeper.

Feel free to keep Icy Wind if you want and implement some or all of the other changes I suggested to test them out. I f anyone has other suggestions I would also love to read them as I think they are plenty of ways to change the team and make Gengar shine.

 

[ToxaWrecks]

ok i understand.and yes i would love to see Gengar shine but in his own surprising way with icy wind.

 

[ToxaWrecks]

can someone please help improve my team.