I'm stuck :(

[Chillarmy]

Hi there, all. Since around the beginning of Platinum, I've been obsessed with stall because it's undoubtedly the easiest teamstyle to use. The debut of XY brought along many new threats--megas, Talonflame, Knock Off--and potential assets to stall, one of which being Defog. Yeah, yeah, people already know how good Defogstall is; but because I was never really overzealous about hazard spam in the past, Defog (once it was revealed to remove all hazards / screens from the field) immediately came to me as a superb option for stall. Spinners in general were always the weakest link of my stall teams, and without having to subject myself to using one, I could fortify my defensive core and make it much harder to break. Anyway, I've been trying my hand at many different variants of stall since the start of XY, and this one seemed to be the most solid. However, a good portion of this team feels a bit shaky--rushed, really--and I'd figured that posting it here for the lovely eyes of you raters would be of greater benefit than wasting time entering tours, laddering, and / or testing more (plus I'm pretty lazy / have other things I'd like to focus on).

Anyway, I'll be skipping the detailed teambuilding process so you people won't have to suffer though an essay featuring my mediocre grammar and bland sense of humor. In short, iirc, it was: Rotom -> Skarm -> Sylveon -> Heatran -> Blissey -> Hippo; then Venu > Heatran and Clefable > Sylveon.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Crunch

Hippowdon is the only hazard setter on this team, but that's not what solidified its slot. SDef Hippowdon does a superb job of Checking Gengar, Lati@s, HP Flying Thund-I/-T, [the occasional] Jirachi, Mega Charizard-Y and, most importantly, NP Mega Lucario. I'd chosen Crunch > Whirlwind to at least damage the aforementioned, so Hippowdon's teammates wouldn't succumb to the pressure of certain (rather effective...) offensive cores (e.g, Gengar + U-turn Lando-I). Once Lucarionite gets the boot, I'll definitely reconsider this spread so Hippo can keep better tabs on Mega Mawile, Terrakion, and Tyranitar.

->

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Synthesis
- Petal Blizzard
- Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb

Yeah, yeah: "Synthesis + SS is counterproductive". Whatever, idfc. Read on and you'll see why.

Venu keeps Kyu-B, SD Mega Luke, Manaphy, the Thunds, Terrakion, Bisharp, TTar, Mamoswine, Heatran... holy fuck the list is long--it keeps a lot of stuff in check and synergizes well with my two (will explain that later) Wish passers. Petal Blizzard > Giga Drain because CM Manaphy poops on me; Sludge Bomb + EQ gives Venu superb coverage and prevents this team from getting mauled by Mega Mawile / Taunt + NP Thund. I really need the coverage, and figured that between the SS nerf and Venu either not taking much damage, or getting a free turn to recover, I could work with Synthesis + Wish support. So far, it's worked fine for me, so w/e.

edit: Oh, I'd almost forgotten something important. The main reason behind choosing Mega Venu was its immunity to Trick / Knock Off, which can give stall lots of trouble.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 HP / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

I've never really been particularly fond of Blissey. Sometimes it has 4MSS up the ass. Sometimes it's complete setup fodder. Sometimes it's just useless. I rarely see much of a reason to consider it (or Chansey), but it definitely pulls its weight on this team. Blissey holds this team together by giving everything an (almost) completely safe switch-in--and checking certain threats, namely Volcarona and Lando-I.

So yeah Wish + Protect is outdated garbage now (sucks vs stall / bo), and I'd rather have 32 chances to heal something that's gonna be relying on small / Toxic damage to beat anything. That said, I DID consider Flamethrower at one point to overcome some common Blissey switch-ins like Mega Mawile / Luke, Doryuuzu, Gengar (still lose, but I can break its subs), and Nattorei, but stuck to Seismic Toss after taking into consideration the other five slots on this team.

Skarmory (M) @ Shed Shell / Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Roost
- Whirlwind
- Drill Peck

Ugh and so we get to this fkn slot. Long story short: after trying out a lot of different options (and birds!), I'd decided on using Skarmory as my Defogger, primary check to MB Doryuuzu, Garchomp, secondary check to Mega Pinsir, Mamoswine, Tyranitar, and a last resort against Mega Gyarados (if it's running Bounce / Waterfall / EQ for some weird reason). I'm aware that Magnezone + offense isn't used quite as much as it was last gen, but I'd figured that it would be a lot easier to prepare for the possibility of. I mean, with Skarm dead, Mega Pinsir just needs a bit of [chip] damage on Rotom, and it sweeps; I'd rather avoid that possibility than get an extra bit of health or punish the physical attackers that this team doesn't really mind anyway. That said, on few occasions I'll use Rugged Helmet to pressure Gyarados / Chomp / Scizor, but more often appreciate the safety of Shed Shell.

Oh, and I really hate the recoil from BB. It makes Skarm a lot easier to pressure and Drill Peck generally gets the job done anyway.

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 Def
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch

Rotom-W is the easiest Pokemon to fit on any XY team, and definitely pulls work here. I'd needed the following: a solid check to Lando-I, Mega Chomp, Torn-T, Sand Rush Doryuuzu, BU + Taunt Talonflame, burn support, and a specially based water resist. Rotom-W fit the bill and it's yet to disappoint. Funny story: In previous builds of this team, Rotom-W was a Rest + Sleep Talk variant, but I'd wanted to use RestTalk Venu as well, so changed the set to something more... standard (because putting two of your own Pokemon to sleep is a pretty crummy idea). After changing Venu's set to the above, I'd forgotten to change Rotom-W's set back, but after a few test runs, decided to keep it as is. Why? Because this team GREATLY benefits from the momentum Volt Switch brings, and having both Wisp and Hydro Pump makes checking some threats much easier. Moreover, with double wish support, keeping Rotom-W alive is surprisingly easy.

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

And lastly, we get to the Pokemon capable of completely dismantling tehystall (if he decides not to be a cockknocker and CT with TrickScarf Sab >:I). Originally, this slot was reserved for CM Sylveon, so I could actually test that fkn set for a while. After getting all of the info I'd needed (which reminds me: I should update the thread), it was time for a replacement, and I thought that Clefable worked pretty well here.

I dislike using Unaware Clefable on stall. It's subjected to using Wish and lolMoonlight for recovery, making it terrible vs opposing stall / bulky offense; all my opp has to do is wither away at Clefable's HP and phaze it out once it's low enough on health. There's likely a better spread available (for instance, Calm 252/160/96 lets Clefable avoid the 2HKO from specially based Cube's Ice Beam which is obviously very useful), but SD Mega Luke is a fuckin bastard and I'd prefer not completely losing to it if Venu is weakened.

Now onto the moves... I just feel very comfortable having two Wishers available. Not only does this mean that Blissey won't be under much pressure, but it also makes Clefable less of a liability when pit against teams with Steels / Volc. Clefable will evade passive damage thanks to Magic Guard, allowing it to Wish more frequently, and allow its teammates to safely cover its weaknesses. As I'd mentioned before, Wish + Protect sucks and I don't see much of a reason for using it. Lastly, due to it being able to switch into / stay in on more relevant threats, I'm using Clefable as this team's cleric--Heal Bell user.
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Gonna skip the threat list, too. Happy holidays, and happy rating!

oh, and:

importable

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Crunch

Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Synthesis
- Petal Blizzard
- Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 4 HP / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Wish
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic

Skarmory @ Shed Shell
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 204 Def / 252 HP / 52 Spd
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Drill Peck
- Roost
- Whirlwind

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SDef / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch

Clefable @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Bold Nature
- Moonblast
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell

 

[Ajwf]

If I were to guess, Rotom-w is the weak link. His lack of reliable recovery, limited HP and his roles being filled by everyone else well enough (hippo for TF, Clefable for MegaChomp, Skarm for ground immunities, including excadrill. Also skarm for Pinsir) makes him a bit tough to keep around. But he has a few crucial helps, that being the fire and ice resists. Waters, rocks, dragons, fire all resist fire. Steel, water, ice, fire all resists ice. Making ice/fire the best options here. Both are limited, but there are some dual types to consider here. Thick Fat snorlax also does a good double resist. The second fight weak is a bit bothersome in his case, but you have two resists as well.

So let's start shrugging off the pokes Rotom was taking care of. Mega chomp to Clefable. Moonblast clef can do the job nicely. Torn-T to Hippowdon, sand rush Exca to skarm (easily stalls out all the turns and can whirlwind SD sets. Talonflame to Hippow (whom, by the way, would do better with rock slide/Rock Tomb over Crunch)

We've got two 4x resists of grass and blissey who can't be bothered about the majority of grass attacks. That gives us leniency on running a grass weak here if needed. So all we need is a solid check to Lando-I and gain some more resistances/should more checks back. Well, all waters basically check him due to ice beam. Rotom didn't get hit by that nasty stab, yes. Dragons w/levitate also do a nice job. Dragons do take a punch from ice, bar Kyub/Kingdra/CharX. Levitate in general works.

But to get a special wall, I'd go slowking (snorlax still is an option, though). He has regenerator, good special bulk and fantastic movepool, including consistent recovery. Invested, he'll survive Lando-i, counter most special threats and fire back coverage like crazy.

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off
- Scald
- Thunder Wave

As a special wall, he very rarely can be beat. He alleviates hippowdown's special duties on pokemon such as NP Lucario (Big relief, too), Lati@s, and can help check Mega Charizard Y a bit:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 206-244 (52.2 - 61.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

He also can retake the TornT countering as well. His moveset is incredibly versatile and he runs support sets/sweeper sets/tank sets without many faults.


Lastly, I suggest fire blast > wish on clefable. Blissey is way more than enough and, let's be honest, two pokemon with two forms of recovery is twice as redundant as needed. Fire blast absolutely destroys mega lucario, mega scizor, ferrothorn, skarmory and many other steel attack steels that use clefable as free switch bait.

 

[Chillarmy]

Well, I'd considered Slowking in the past, but what kept me from committing myself to that choice was its vulnerability to U-turn--and Lando-I almost always carries that. With U-turn, my opponent won't have to bother predicting, and will maintain momentum; though Rotom-W can't afford to go through such an experience either, it's not overwhelmed by the likes of Tyranitar, Genesect, Scizor, Rotom-A, etc (i.e, anything with Pursuit, Volt Switch and / or U-turn). Sure, I can attempt to outplay the player using Lando, but taking into account that Naive / Timid Earth Power can 2HKO after a bit of prior damage--Slowking tanking an Earth Power and safely switching out, for example--my opponent won't have to predict much, therefore reducing the risk of using Lando-I in a straightforward manner. As much as I'd love to climb out of the box and use something as creative as Slowking, its existence will, sadly enough, make me even more weak to Lando-I. Furthermore, without Rotom-W, I'll be hard-pressed to keep Mega Pinsir in its place. While Skarmory IS a decent check, because it's my ONLY blatant check, the opposing player will know to pressure it in order to secure an open lane for Pinsir.

I do like the idea of Snorlax, however, as I can then run Heal Bell on Blissey in the place of Toxic, and Flamethrower on Clefable instead of Heal Bell. I can even give Clefable SR to make up for losing Hippo! That said, I'm not seeing the 'redundancy' in playing this team's cleric safely. Given that this team has few problems with Genesect, Nattorei, Scizor, and Skarmory, I don't see the harm in relieving Blissey of some pressure. I will, however, try Flamethrower > Wish out for a while; I'm just a bit hesitant on letting go of such a safe option, is all.

Oh and without Crunch, Hippo can't take Gengar, which would otherwise be a big threat to this team (SubSplit 6-0's without Crunch, pretty much). I'd actually thought about using specially defensive Mandibuzz + physically defensive Rotom-W (so I won't lose to Mega Gyarados) to address this potential problem--in fact, I'm currently trying those two out--but it makes me uneasy knowing that my Defogger--my "hazard control", for a better choice of words--is weak to SR.

Anyway, I really appreciate the rate and, despite my doubts, will attempt try out these suggestions. So thanks! :D

 

[WECAMEASROMANS]

Just a few changes to help make this team a bit better.

Instead of hippowdon, try physically defensive heatran (not the standard spdef one). sr, lava plume, toxic, and roar can work. this helps against mega charizard x (mega charizard y cant beat blissey), genesect, and talonflame. not only that, you now have a way of actually forcing out ferro, forrey, and the like. for your mega venu, definitely switch it back to giga drain, because the HP recovery is too useful and CM manaphy cant get past blissey either.

Another suggestion, change your blissey to a physically defensive chansey so you can take psyshocks from latios better. this also helps with toxic stalling tons of relevant shit like non sd garchomp, lando, ttar, etc. i can definitely see your rotom-w being replaced with a spdef zapdos. a set of tbolt, heatwave, roost, defog would do wonders. not only does it give you another defog user and a hard counter to landorus i and tornadus t, but it helps check NASTY PLOT MEGA LUCARIO with heat wave, which is super dangerous. not to mention it actually gets reliable recovery and pressure which helps with PP stalling, and it does nearly the same thing the rotom-w does. lastly, i agree on putting fire blast > wish on clefable. it helps combat those pesky steels who like to switch in on clefable.

hope this helped!