I'm too lazy to analyze my team any more so...RMT

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Alright, so after getting my grades up, I decided to go back to Shoddy. I needed to make a good team fast, so I just decided to go with a completely unoriginal idea; dual screens and bulky pokemons. J/k bout the title too; I'm always analyzing my team and thinking about various threats.

REVAMP: It's not really a big change of pokemon, but the way I play is now quite different. I realized as I watche Weavile or Scizor prevent Alakazam from getting more than one screen or even a screen at all that I can't play this like a typical dual screen team (like Justinawe's) because Alakazam is not Deoxys; he is not guaranteed to get even one screen down all the time. Instead, I'm finding that Alakazam is really just here to disguise a hyper offensive team that uses screens to no.1 make transitions from pokemon to pokemon cleaner and no. 2 make this team look more defensive oriented when you actually have 4 LO sweepers and Flygon. Basically, the goal is just to get a decent sweep early game. Often, people use only 1 pokemon to counter multiple. Kill that, and the armor is broken and something can break through.

Since I now realize that this team shouldn't be played in the way I played before, I'll be changing the descriptions. And Infernape over Machamp too.

Hell, maybe I should try out an Azelf SR lead, or an Aerodactyl SR lead.

FINISHED MY REVAMP

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Alakazam @ Light Clay
Inner Focus
252 hp/216 Spd/40 SpD
Timid
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic
-Encore

Alakazam isn't Deoxys-S. He is not guaranteed to get my screens up. He can't even get one screen up against weavile, and usually only one against Scizor. But that doesn't matter; my team functions well with or without screens. Screens just make it a hell of a lot easier, and it gives them a strange impression. Not to mention that Alakazam, against a team without Scizor, Weavile, or Tyranitar, can really wreak some havoc by himself.

Reflect and Light Screen are obvious. Getting these down mean that nothing really hits super effective against my team, and really helps water down the attacks coming from revengers. My pokemon usually only need one boost, so the screens are here to let them take attacks as they hit back. Usually, it can result in my pokemon being able to dish out just a few extra hits before dying, and that can be very important. Sometimes I can only get one down, but they are very useful, as nothing is more annoying than knowing your hits do half damage for 8 turns.

Psychic is used with Alakazam's awesome special stat, as it can 2hko and even 1hko plenty of pokemon out there, from Infernape to Gengar. I also need it just to break sashes. It gives the impression I'm tricked too when I use it right off the bat.

Encore is what separates Alakazam from Deoxys-S and makes him not that worthless. Encore makes it much easier for my team to transition, or get more screens up. Incredibly good move, especially because under screens, Alakazam can pull off plenty of encores and force switches.

I'm considering a SR lead. But there are some very subtle uses to Alakazam. The forced switches often let me see the opponent's team, and then I can figure out which of my sweepers will be most effective. Also, he can give the opponent a pretty confuzzled time; Zam leads generally look like trick leads, but then he gets screens up. And screens usually mean some kind of stall or bulky pokemon. But then Infernape comes in, and then it just looks downright strange. Then again, SR would probably quite useful for an offensive team like this. But sometimes, an extra attack can mean another pokemon dead; SR can't pull that off.

Timid and 216 EVs let me outspeed azelf, so i can kill its sash and then encore. Trick leads are rather annoying, but oh well. 252 hp EVs make Alakazam surprisingly bulky, and he is extremely difficult to kill under screens. 40 SpD to take less from attacks like Fire Blast (most common lead attack out there...), and 252/40 means he has a slight chance of taking Gengar's Timid Scarf Shadow ball, and 1hko back with psychic.

If you are playtesting, be aware that it does take a bit of practice to use him to full effect. Sometimes he dies a horrible grueling death (always to weavile), other times he basically draws out half the team and lives longer than my screens as I stall the crap out of the opposing team.
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Infernape @ Life Orb
Blaze
24 Atk/252 SpA/232 Spd
Naive
-Close Combat
-Overheat
-Grass Knot
-HP Ice=

When I first tried out Infernape, I was surprised at how good he was on my team. Together with Metagross and Suicune, someone would be taking out at least 3 pokemon, depending on what was already killed. Then I realized that this is just a hyper offensive team with rocks, but instead screens. And so I got rid of Machamp, who could barely beat SkarmBliss with hax, for the big wall breaker Infernape.

Quite a choice really. Close Combat is really quite a broken move on something as fast and powerful as Infernape. As is Overheat; even waters like Starmie lose half their HP to STAB 140 BP. It's the better choice; less misses and more power. I rarely keep Infernape in for more than a few turns, and teams really only have a few pokemon that need to be hit by Overheat. Grass Knot is decent; it doesn't do too much against Gyarados or a lot of bulky waters, Vaporeon in particular. HP Ice is great; I don't even know how many people tried to kill Infernape with Salamence or Gliscor, only to get their asses kicked.

Screens make him decent; at least he doesn't drop like a fly. It also puts his useful resistences in much better light; switching into Bullet Punch especially.

Infernape's typing is quite good on my team, with 2 water resists, a flying resist, and 2 earthquake immunities. A threat like Infernape forces people to use the obvious attacks, which makes switching easy.

Infernape's primary counters are waters like Tentacruel and Starmie. Both of them are easily dealt with with a bit of maneuvering, and when I see them, I can tell that if I kill one, I will likely get a small Infernape sweep. I tend to use him less as a wall breaker and more as a sweeper (though wall breakers are really just sweepers that can kill walls I guess).

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Metagross @ Life Orb
Clear Body
52 Hp/252 Atk/204 Spd
Adamant
-Agility
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Rock Slide/Thunderpunch

Metagross is probably my best sweeper. Most teams overlook him while preparing their teams. They just stick Skarmory or some bulky water or Magnezone there and assume he's covered. Which is probably why I got to great lengths to kick their ass and then watch as Metagross sweeps their team.

Metagross is definitely one of the best agility sweepers around, and sweepers in general. With Agility making faster than most scarfers, 405 attack backed up with LO, no 4x weak, and enough bulk to take super effective hits, he can easily cut through a team that is full of pokemon that are weak to his attacks.

Meteor Mash is pretty obvious; STAB and the ability to raise his attack another stage is great. Earthquake provides some good coverage, and is probably my primary sweeping move. Rock Slide and Thunderpunch is the decision I need to make; T Punch helps weaken Skarm and waters early game, so it gets a little easier to beat them later on. Meanwhile, Rock Slide hits three of Metagrosses common switch ins; Salamence, Zapdos, and Gyara, all super effective. So far, I'm liking rock slide, as killing those big three open up new possibilities for my other attackers.
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Suicune @ Life Orb
Pressure
4 Hp/252 SpA/252 Spd
Timid
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-HP Electric
-Ice Beam

Very solid sweeper, if your team doesn't have Blissey, prepare to be in a world of hurt.

CM is fairly obvious as a good boosting move, which helps power up Suicune's decent move pool. Surf is obvious as a strong STAB attack, while HP Electric and Ice Beam provide Pseudo bolt beam, hitting waters and grasses that resist Surf hard. Ice Beam is a great move, 2hkoing Zapdos and Celebi, and a +1 Surf can 2hko Swampert.
Really, it is the fact that Suicune needs only 1 CM boost to decimate pokemon, and combined with his bulk, speed (295 is quite fast nowadays), and the possibility screens are up, nothing except Blissey really stops him from do ing a lot of damage. I like only having to use 1 boost, because it saves valuable screen time. Once again, the fact that Suicune is often looked upon as a defensive pokemon means that he is often overlooked as a sweepe, which is why he can be so deadly.

252 Spd and Timid nets 295 speed, enough to outspeed Jolly Mamo and Adamant Lucario as well as most of the metagame.. 252 SpA is obvious, and 4 Hp Evs just for a slight boost in bulkiness.

He is usually here as the Zapdos or Celebi killer. Considering they are the most common switch ins to Suicune and they also happen to take on Metagross fairly well, and are sometimes the only walls on a team, its a priority to kill them. I sometimes even sacrifice cune just to deal damage to them. Suicune is generally the first sweeper to come out, as he draws out many common counters to Nape and Metagross, and generally fatally damages them or outright kills them.

I personally think he is one of the premier special sweepers in the game. He has the bulk, and has just enough speed and power to get the job done very well.

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Salamence @ Life Orb
Intimidate
16 Atk/240 SpA/252 Spd
Naive
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Flamethrower
-Brick Break

Beastly Salamence, always finds a way on my team.

MixMence is a solid threat. With everyone thinking all Salamence are DD, Mixmence steps in to Draco Meteor stuff into a world of hurt. He is even better now with so many non-scarfed Heatran too. Anyway, Draco Meteor and Outrage wreck pokemon like crazy, 2hkoing stuff that don't resist. Flamethrower is better than Fire Blast since Mence does die fast; gotta get those SE hits in. And Brick Break over Earthquake because; can 2hko Blissey without getting locked into Outrage, and without SR, I need to at least hit levitators and fliers.

Max speed because it is just so incredibly useful to be able to kill most other Mence and Zapdos first. Really, combined with all my other pokemon, most of the common OU offensive pokemons can't switch in period. Only walls really have a solid chance.

He is also pretty good under screens, and with intimidate, he can take hits from physical attackers.

Often, I sacrifice Salamence to kill something like Skarmory, Blissey, or Swampert. When one of them dies, Agiligross and Suicune can cut straight through a team.

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Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
4 hp/252 Atk/252 Spd or
Adamant
-Outrage
-Earthquake
-U Turn
-Stone Edge

I tried out Scarf Jirachi, but it did not do too well, and the lack of a ground immunity/resist really hurt hard, especially against pokemon like Zapdos and Jolteon with powerful STAB electric (possibly the best STAB)

So I went back to Flygon. Outrage is a solid STAB, and with Salamence's help, can often get me a late game sweep. Earthquake is a good STAB, though I am often unwilling to use it unless I have to. U Turn is a good way to find counters and switch to a good pokemon for the situation. U-Turn is truly a remarkable move on Scarf Flygon though, since it makes transitioning extremely easy. U-Turn to a resist, stat up, and go, or take a T-Wave and switch out (usually vs. Blissey). Stone Edge makes him a very good switch into Zapdos, and allows him to revenge Gyara very well. Still, he is a great scarfer and revenger. He isn't trapped by anything, isn't badly pwned by pursuit, and is resistent to rocks and immune to passive damage except hail. Sweet.

I guess you could say that Flygon is the knot for this team; he absorbs electric attacks and t-wave, and U Turns to help a lot of transitions. His useful resistences and immunities and the fact that passive damage doesn't bother him is what really makes him a very good pokemon for the job.

An Analysis of the Team as a whole (How I play):
My team basically runs on the idea that most people use one pokemon as a counter to many. And it is through this idea that I break the opposing team down, and it is through the most basic thing you can do in pokemon; kill.

Alakazam starts it off, confusing the opponent and usually forcing switches. How an opponent reacts to Alakazam is quite telling; does he send in something like Blissey, or does he send in Scizor? Based on that reaction, I can tell whether I'm facing an offensive or defensive team (generally). Encore and screens help get one of my sweepers in.

The starting sweep is really important. It generally forces a lot of my opponents hand, and it can make the holes I need right from the start. Suicune, Metagross, and Infernape are my primary sweepers (Salamence is too vulnerable, he is mainly there to try to hammer down a key pokemon, Flygon is the trash man). Here are some common switch ins:
Suicune: Blissey, Celebi, Zapdos, all bulky waters, Starmie, Jolteon, Electivire
Metagross: Skarmory, Forretress, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Donphan, Swampert, Gyara, Zapdos, Salamence, Magnezone, Dugtrio
Infernape: uh...Starmie, Tentacruel, Slowbro, Vaporeon. Salamence (why?!), Gyarados, and some others.

As one can see, there are numerous pokemon common among them. Suicune will beat or at least fatally damage every single thing on the list with a CM except for Blissey, which is why he is such a good starting sweeper. Once that's said and done, Salamence can try to finish off any remaining counters that I see, and from there, Infernape and Metagross can sweep. As I said before, most teams only run 1 or 2 pokemon that are meant to counter a certain block of pokemon. Once they are down, what remains is very vulnerable to certain and sweepers. And this offensive combo takes advantage of that very well.

Addressing Resid Damage
Yep...4 LO sweepers, and only 1 is immune to toxic spikes and has an immunity to Sandstorm. Hail hurts everything. Screens definitely help in terms of survivablility, but there is no doubt my pokemon don't live long. But in the end, it's fine when they can 1-2hko just about everything. Not to mention besides SR, setting up is extremely dangerous for my opponent because it gives one of my attackers a free switch in. Not to mention popular spikers like Forry and Skarmory are owned by this team.

Possible Weaknesses: It is important to remember that I do often have screens up, and that many "threats" are watered down because of them. Not to mention most threats can't switch in to just about anything.

Scizor: Seems possible that he could beat up my team, but I haven't seen too many today I didn't kill with Dynamic Punch of Surf. Infernape makes him considerably easier, as very few run Quick Attack.

Salamence: Scary stuff. With Dual Screens though, Suicune easily takes care of him and takes care of him pretty well anyway. The main reason I have no problems with him is that he can't switch into anything really, without getting his ass owned. Infernape is also pretty good, since Salamence can rarely get an actual DD up.

Mamoswine: Probably one of the scariest pokemon I face. However, Infernape and Suicune, and Metagross with an Agility can do a good job.
 
Looks like a fun team. On Machamp, I'm assuming thats Hp/Atk/Speed, so just fix the first one :p and go with No Guard. 50% Dynamic Punch is too big of a waste.
 
On Suicune I suggest you either max out its speed or at least EV it so that it outspeeds jolly Mamoswine. Those HP EVs aren't going to make Suicune much more bulkier. LO Suicune is meant to just CM once and then attack until it dies.
 
Yes maxing out suicunes speed is helpful on life orbing cune.
wow great team seems alot like what i use exepct me having azelf as a lead.
But kazam encore lead seems MAGNIFICENT. I would prefer specs lucario over metagross.
 
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Alright, so after getting my grades up, I decided to go back to Shoddy. I needed to make a good team fast, so I just decided to go with a completely unoriginal idea; dual screens and bulky pokemons.

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Alakazam @ Light Clay
Inner Focus
252 hp/216 Spd/40 SpD
Timid
-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Psychic/Shadow Ball
-Encore

Sexy lead, I've used him before and am using him again. One of the best dual screeners that exist, and he is probably one of the best leads. Inner Focus means that those damn fake out leads don't matter and just net me a free turn to set up Reflect or Light Screen.

What makes this so good is the combo of Encore and knockoff. Knocking off sashes is great, and combined with the switch causing Encore, I can start getting rid of items everywhere. Drives people nuts, and its absolutely sexy since I can enore attacks from SR to Gyroball to Fire Blast, etc. which easily allows one of my bulky attackers to switch in and start hitting. One of the best support leads I've ever used. Only weavile is annoying since I am actually slower than the damn thing.

Timid and 216 EVs let me outspeed azelf, so i can knockoff then encore. Trick leads are rather annoying, but oh well. 252 hp EVs make Alakazam surprisingly bulky, and he is extremely difficult to kill under screens. 40 SpD to take less from attacks like Fire Blast (most common lead attack out there...)

Knock off is a good move, but pokemon with Trick are going to be rendering you useless. Screens are a good idea, I like it, although I don't see where this helps you much. You don't have anything that needs screens, it benefits your team, but have you even tried a ScarfZam? Scarfzam is really reckless and deals massive amounts of damage. You get trick anyways so if you wanna screw over another lead, there you go. Alakazam is too fast with a scarf to be a lead, his coverage is amazing, but he is too slow, which is why the trickscarf set is win.

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Machamp @ Leftovers
No Guard/Guts (TRYING TO DECIDE)
128 Hp/252 Atk/128 Spd
Adamant
-Bulk Up
-Dynamic Punch
-Stone Edge
-Pay Back

Dual Screens with something like Machamp is disgustingly good. With weakness to only psychic and flying (insanely hard to find) and bulky stats, Machamp is a complete beast with that screen support.

Start bulking up, and then Dynamic Punching, Stone Edging, and Pay Backing my way through a team. Dynamic Punch is really such a haxed move, I'm ashamed of using it (no I'm not). Stone Edge provides great coverage and lets me wreck popular switch ins like Zapdos and Gyarados. Pay Back for those Rotom forms and Dusknoir (though burns own me...)

I am considering Guts because I do end up getting burned and paralyzed a lot. I think it would be very useful to end up getting a CB thanks to the status. Not too sure yet though...

Max attack and Adamant is for maximizing my punch. Hp Evs for bulk, and Spd EVs to outrun Skarm.

The most annoying thing is Breloom, since he outspeeds then spores me. Then I have to go through all this shit of U Turning and Fire Blasting/Ice Beam. What a bitch.

Why not run sleeptalk if you know that this is a problem? i think that Substitiute would be more useful over Bulk up because you can come in on something yuo scare, sub up, and then proceed to attack with Dynamic punch, while still behind a sub.


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Metagross @ Life Orb
Clear Body
52 Hp/252 Atk/204 Spd
Adamant
-Agility
-Meteor Mash
-Earthquake
-Explosion/Ice Punch/Rock Slide

Damn, this is a vicously good pokemon under screens, and in general too. With 204 Spd EVs and an agility, I outspeed common scarf base 100 neutral natured pokemon, like jirachi and Flygon.

The moveset is obvious. I'm just not so sure on how to use the last slot. Explosion is a very versetile choice...except I die. Usually I have to use it last ditch against stuff like Zapdos and Gyara if I'm wounded. Ice Punch helps me cover my relatively big Salamence weakness a bit better. Meanwhile, Rock Slide seems like a decent choice, hitting Gyara, Zapdos, and Mence, 3 common switch ins, super effective. But it doesn't hit Rotom forms hard either, sadly.

Nice agiligross, they are really good nowadays. Ice Punch is a solid choice, but Explosion seems more appealing damage wise, you'll hit something like Flygon for SE with ice punch, but you'll knock something that can cause trouble to your team out with explosion.

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Suicune @ Life Orb
Pressure
40 Hp/252 SpA/216 Spd
Timid
-Calm Mind
-Surf
-HP Electric
-Ice Beam

Very solid sweeper, if your team doesn't have Blissey, prepare to be in a world of hurt.

CM is fairly obvious as a good boosting move, which helps power up Suicune's decent move pool. Surf is obvious as a strong STAB attack, while HP Electric and Ice Beam provide Pseudo bolt beam, hitting waters and grasses that resist Surf hard. Ice Beam is a great move, 2hkoing Zapdos and Celebi, and a +1 Surf can 2hko Swampert.

Once again, he is amazing under screens because he has only 2 weaknesses and is ridiculously bulky.

A good switch in to Gyara, and a decent one for Mence. Deals fatal damage to both.

216 Spd and Timid nets 285 speed, enough to outspeed Jolly Mamo and Adamant Lucario as well as most of the pokemon EVed to outspeed Adamant Lucario. 252 SpA is obvious, and 40 Hp Evs just for a slight boost in bulkiness.

Interesting LO set, I honestly don't have much to say.

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Salamence @ Life Orb
Intimidate
16 Atk/240 SpA/252 Spd
Naive
-Draco Meteor
-Outrage
-Flamethrower
-Brick Break

Beastly Salamence, always finds a way on my team. Helps set up for Flygon's late game sweep.

MixMence is a solid threat. With everyone thinking all Salamence are DD, Mixmence steps in to Draco Meteor stuff into a world of hurt. He is even better now with so many non-scarfed Heatran too. Anyway, Draco Meteor and Outrage wreck pokemon like crazy, 2hkoing stuff that don't resist. Flamethrower is better than Fire Blast since Mence does die fast; gotta get those SE hits in. And Brick Break over Earthquake because; can 2hko Blissey without getting locked into Outrage, and without SR, I need to punish flying pokemon that think they can switch in with impunity.

Max speed because it is just so incredibly useful to be able to kill most other Mence and Zapdos first.

He is also pretty good under screens, and with intimidate, he can take hits from physical attackers.

Fire Blast is a much better option that Flamethrower, you get the things that you can OHKO and get the 2HKO instead with Flamethrower, not worth it imo. Same with Brick break, Outrage is a much better option once you scout the team for steels. Just go Fire Blast/Earthquake/Outrage/ Dragon Dance. this is an amazing set, trust me here. Special walls come in once you DD, and now you have a speed boost and can knock them out with Draco Meteor.

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Flygon @ Choice Scarf
Levitate
4 hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Stone Edge
-U Turn

Flygon is probably one of the best scarfers today with impunity and resistence to just about every form of passive damage.

Anyway, the moveset is fairly obvious. Flygon is such a good switch into Zapdos and is a good revenge killer for Gyara, so Stone Edge is a solid choice.

Maxed out speed because with all the other Scarf Flygons around, I want to beat them. Oh, at least tie with DDMence.

No idea why you're running both dragons, they have practically the same coverage. Get rid of this and actually find something useful. Even CBZor would be much better than this, you get the Choice Banded U turn and quite a bit of power. It's just a filler, find something useful.



Comments:

I sorta am thinking about Zapdos over Suicune, but I think the double SR weakness is no fun

I sorta want Lucario or Scizor on this team, because Agiligross blows their counters (like Gyara and Zapdos) out of the water

Possible Weaknesses:
Scizor: Seems possible that he could beat up my team, but I don't see him doing.

Salamence: Scary stuff. With Dual Screens though, Suicune easily takes care of him and takes care of him pretty well anyway. And he basically has no good chance to switch in except when Flygon is locked into a Earthquake.

Gyara: Suicune is very solid, and Flygon is too. But I can see him causing trouble.

Alright thanks. I made this team in a hurry (like under 15 minutes) and only played 10 matches (won all of them except 2; Breloom kicked my ass, Togekiss haxed my ass). But they were pretty crappy players, so there are probably plenty of holes in this team.
 
It's never really a question of whether I need screens (when does one ever NEED screens?) but the fact that screens allow bulky sweepers to set up and sweep extremely efficiently. If I were to use a trick lead, I'd probably choose a better one like Jirachi or a Rotom form. But I just don't think a trick lead fits in that well anyway. I have tried a specstrickzam before. It was a mediocre anti-lead that wasn't too special. I doubt that Scarf will be much better.

Rest Talk Machamp is not offensive enough, but Substitute seems like an okay idea. However, I generally switch machamp into stuff like paralysis, so it might not be. However, without bulk up, Machamp might be hard pressed to deal with some physical walls. It definitely seems like a good move though. Maybe I'll try Bulk Up+Substitute.

Yes, you are right about Explosion and Ice Punch. I still dislike having to blow up, but I guess it is unavoidable. How bout rock slide though?

Flamethrower is actually just fine. It has a 73% chance of KOing Skarm without rocks, and it still 2hkoes 252 hp/0 SpD Celebi and Bronzong. I'm not really missing out on much. Not sure what you mean bout brick break, I have outrage.

I considered going with a DDMence. The problem is that I have 3 other pokemon that need to stat up, and I want a good mixed attacker. And i think Salamence fits that bill, especially because his typing matches my team really well.

I'm not sure what to say about replacing Flygon. He is my revenge killer after all, and CBScizor can't get that job done too well. I love his typing and his virtual immunity to passive damage, as well as the fact that Salamence often gets rid of the dragon counters, which allows him to do an Outrage sweep lategame. That double dragon type strategy. Any suggestions for a good revenge killer though?
 
Hey chenman

On your Alakazam I would run Psychic over Knock Off. You say you use Knock Off to get rid of opposing Focus Sashes, but Psychic acheives the same thing. The great thing is that Alakazam has such a naturally high SpA base that it OHKOs Gengar and Infernape and 2HKOs Aerodactyl without needing any investment in SpA. It is a better choice as without it, you are really helpless against faster Taunters (Aerodactyl), and it is a waste of Alakazam's godly SpA. I'm glad to see you're running Encore though =) good choice.

Your Machamp's EV spread I would change to 252 HP, 124 Atk, 132 Spe, and definitely give it No Guard. I use the exact same Machamp set as you, and I can advise from personal experience that Machamp still hits plenty hard with the 124 Atk EVs after a bulk up, and he really does enjoy the added bulk. The extra 4 Spe EVs give him extra insurance against CB Tyranitar and Skarmory who run a few speed EVs.

On your Metagross I really think Thunderpunch would be its best choice in the last slot. You don't need Ice Punch as you do a minimum of 87% to Salamence with Meteor Mash (OHKO with Stealth Rock), while it cannot OHKO you with Earthquake. It would let you you deal with Gyarados easily without having to blow yourself up, and would help a lot with other bulky waters.

Flygon is really uneeded on the team - I suggest you replace him with a Scarf Jirachi, who can also set up Stealth Rock. Stealth Rock is very helpful for this team, as it guarantees Metagross and Suicune many KOs that otherwise wouldn't be (such as Meteor Mash vs Salamence). Try the following set:

Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
108 HP, 252 Atk, 148 Spe

- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Trick
- Stealth Rock

Like I said, Stealth Rock will help this team tremendously. The EVs and nature allow it to outrun +1 Adamant Salamence and KO it with Ice Punch. Trick the scarf onto a wall to give your sweepers an easier time, and Iron Head gives you a solid STAB attack with a great flinch rate. It also lets you revenge kill frail sweepers such as Porygon Z and Alakazam without too much trouble, as well as hitting Tyranitar very hard.

Anyway, good luck with the team mate.

LR.
 
Ah thanks for the rate. I never really considered Thunderpunch on Metagross, mostly because Zapdos is such a common switch in. Would I just Meteor Mash it or something? Which is why I have considered Rock Slide. Hits Zapdos and Gyara super effective. Rock Slide seems like a very solid choice now that I have done some calcs. It 2hkoes the most bulky Gyarados and the standard defensive Zapdos, without rocks. And it 1hkoes offensive Gyara and probably 1hkoes less defensive Zapdos with rocks too. And the coverage is pretty good with Earthquake.

I'll definitely try the scarf Jirachi, it looks like it will work pretty well. And I'll go those EVs for Machamp a go. Looks pretty solid. However, I am worried about the influx of Magnezone; I don't want my revenge killer dead after revenging something! And Fire Punch is an awful move for ScarfJirachi. And it is especially scary because it is combined with Salamence most of the time. I also don't know about Trick; I wouldn't want to trick my scarf away against some wall only to see myself unable to revenge kill later. Magnezone is the biggest worry with a steel revenger, and Fire Punch is a pretty horrible option in my opinion (I revenge, then I get pwned).

I also dislike the loss of my ground immunity in Flygon. That electric immunity is what makes him so good at switching into something Blissey when she comes in Cune, and then allowing me to send in Machamp without Paralysis. My team also looks much more vulnerable to something like SpecsJolt now; T-bolt could theoretically run through my team hard (actually Metagross isn't 1hkoed, even after rocks, so it can earthquake. But Zen Headbutt only does like 69% minimum).

And I guess Psychic really is the better choice, since Knock Off is actually rarely useful, except when I knock off a Scarf or something. But it is oh so fun...people truly dislike losing their item, and with encore, they can't really help it.
 
Nice team but i would recommend fire punch on jirachi just because you don't have any reliable scizor killer after a sd. Only fire attack you have is on mence which dies after sr damage and a +1 bullet punch. Thats all i have to recommend other than that good team =).



Oh and max speed on suicune much more useful since its a sweeper.
 
Good team all in all, I tried out your team and here are the main things I found flawed:


suicune should be abit faster
you need a reliable counter against steels

those are the main things,
that machamp set up works ALLOT better.
 
I might as well run max speed on Suicune, just to tie with the rare jolly hera or tie with opposing offensive cune.

Meanwhile, I am still considering Zapdos in place of Cune, as he is probably one of the best steel counters in the game, resisting most of their attacks and he has access to roost. Still a fairly bulky pokemon. Great synergy with Machamp too.

I won't put Fire Punch on Jirachi yet; I don't feel Scizor is that big of a threat with screens up. He doesn't have a single good switch in except for Jirachi, and Suicune and Metagross can deal good neutral damage against him.
 
ok and chenman, i have continued to test your team and jirachi has bad synargy, so i sugest changing it.

but you do need a srer
 
Yes, I do not like Jirachi. Got pwned by Substitute Jolteon this morning, I even encored T-bolt, but everything was 2hkoed.

I would suggest testing it with Scarf Flygon. I sorta felt he fit in well with that Ground resist.

Maybe I ought to try Mamoswine with SR. I'm thinking Expert Belt or LO Mamo, but then I'd need a revenge killer somewhere in here.
 
As has been said, go ahead and max speed on Suicune; it'll probably be more helpful in the long run.

On Machamp, if you ever do want to catch skarmory on the roost with a SE dynamic punch, try a max hp max sp def careful machamp. It seems like kind of a waste being outsped by a lot of slow things, and less attack than you'd like; however, I use that BU set under dual screens and it works wonders. I'd recommend at least testing it out, see how it works. It doesn't solve your breloom problem unfortunately, but it's still great under dual screen.

Obviously you want to replace flygon, but does your revenge killer have to be scarfed? If not, just going with anything with over 100 base speed could work. Infernape, Gengar, Azelf, etc They can all take out common threats if they've taken some previous damage easily. If you do want something scarfed though, why not scarfCross? Scarfed Heracross (and just heracross in general) has been completely abandoned recently, and people won't be expecting it. It's still good, just watch out for rotoms switching in on megahorn and CC.

Last thing I can say after just glancing through the team, is that you mentioned possibly wanting lucario? First, sub salac works really well no matter what set it is. Second, Calm Mind Lucario is a beast. After zapdos/gyarados/salamence are taken out, CM/Substitute/Aura Sphere/Shadow Ball Lucario is amazing. Just make sure your hp is divisible by 4 etc. I have yet to see ANYONE else use this set, and im throwing it out there. Under dual screen it also sets up well, and you can sub to avoid status. I've seen plenty of celebis and things of the sort switch in and try to leech seed/thunderwave only to get subbed and set up on. After one CM it can 2hko a lot of blisseys, after 2 CM it easily does around 60-70%. If you decide to try it, I recommend modest max speed.

If you decide to go with physical lucario that could also work well with the team, but i just don't find it to work as well.

Hope this helped at least a little~
 
I actually really enjoy Flygon on this team. U Turn is really such a good move for this team, as it allows me to transition from counter to counter, especially when electric attacks are thrown around as crazy.

I don't really think Lucario is a good pokemon for this team, but some kind of Substitute attacker would seem pretty good.

The advantage of having that speed is that it also allows Machamp to handle CBTar, and makes him a much better switch in.

And my team was anally raped by Raikou Lover's Rain Dance team. It got wrecked...
 
I'm having troule deciding things, but I'll do my best.

Your main problems are as follows: the lack of Stealth Rock and status crippling everything. I mean Spikes and Toxic Spikes alone puts this team into a difficult position. Granted: Flygon, Metagross, and Salamence are immune to these, but Suicune and Machamp are going to hate you. Burn-wise, 4 out of the 6 Pokemon simply can't stand it. And finally paralysis is going to be hated except for Flygon (but beware of Body Slam) and Machamp possibly. And another thing: this team is slightly Zapdos-weak. Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice / Heat Wave / Roost is 2HKOing a lot of Pokemon if screens aren't down. Finally I have to agree with you: this team is very slow. I mean, no one is even breaking the base Speed 100 tier. Only Flygon and possibly Metagross are your best bets (I'm ignoring Alakazam right now because he's your "suicide lead".

Unfortunately... I dunno what to really say unless I playtest this team a lot. But typing-wise, Flygon seems to be a decent fit. If you feel that he is a necessary part of the team, then keep him. Ice-wise, you have 2 Pokemon resisting the impact anyway.

Really what you need is a Pokemon that can lay Stealth Rock and another Pokemon that can SleepTalk. I'd have to say the two weakest Pokemon here are, in fact, Alakazam and Flygon.

Now if you want a Guts-abuser, I'd actually look into Heracross over Machamp and make Heracross slightly more suicidal. You can use the MoPCross set-up (Sub / Megahorn / Swords Dance / Stone Edge) OR you can try the pure Swords Dance variant (scratch Sub and put Close Combat in here). With a Jolly nature and a Salac Berry attatched, you can damage a lot of things right off the bat. And if Heracross is at least intoxicated or burned, that just makes Heracross even deadlier and easier to activate into Salac range. The problem is you need clearance from some faster Pokemon (like Zapdos) and knock off Scizor and Lucario. Fortunately their priority attacks won't KO Heracross (rather it might put them into Salac range if you're lucky) so you need to act quickly. BUT, Heracross could fulfill your revenge killing needs with simply a Choice Scarf and Adamant nature. It can abuse Guts still if it takes a burn or intoxication while hitting off pretty hard against certain threats. I'd try ScarfHeracross over Flygon first, but if you'd like the Swords Dancer try it over Machamp I guess.

I think Bronzong might be slightly better with Dual Screen than Alakazam. It can set up Stealth Rock and slapping Gyro Ball on it helps handle your Mamoswine problem. Really Alakazam is fucked by a Tyranitar lead (that isn't using Substitute btw).

I'm not sure how to help you, but I'd at least try ScarfHera > Flygon and Bronzong > Alakazam if possible.

EDIT: I'd simply elect Thunderpunch for Metagross to handle Bulky Waters. Well, Swampert will be a pain and Zapdos but beggars can't be choosers.
 
Yes, I've gotten a Heracross suggestion before. Except for Thunderwave, I think he would make a pretty solid revenge killer. I'll first try him over Flygon, then I'll try him over Machamp (I'm inclined to believe he'll be better over Machamp).

Meanwhile, this team actually isn't as slow as it seems. Suicune hits 295 speed, and Salamence hits 328, Agiligross outspeeds most scarfs after a Agility. In reality, there are few pokemon that run more than 310 speed. Everyone loves those bulky mons, and those pokemon running above 328 are now a lot more rare, and can rarely beat my team under screens.

Alakazam acually isnt fucked over by Tyranitar leads; he survives a CB Crunch after a reflect. Machamp actually turns Tyranitar into prime set up bait; I set up dual screens, and then Machamp moves in and gets his first bulk up. It's those Weavile leads that don't use fake out right off the bat that totally kick my ass. Can't do anything against them.

I do like how Bronzong can SR, and also use that Explode/Gyro Ball. However, the fact that he gets taunted so easily, and the fact that he is totally pwned by Infernape leads means that I'll get screens up much less often than with Alakazam. I think I'll try a Heatproof one though.

I haven't tried out Thunderpunch yet (I should though). Rock Slide is working pretty well, nailing Zapdos, Gyara, and Salamence in one move. Anyway, those bulky waters are quite annoying to kill (but aren't very threatening under dual screens) and generally, they turn into Suicune set up bait.


EDIT: I've been trying out 4 attack Mixape over Machamp, and I must say, he seems to be doing quite well. I've won the 5 matches I've just played with him without a hitch. But then again, they were pretty low quality players, the highest having a conservatives rating in the mid 1300s. Helps out the speed i guess.
 
I would probably switch Alakazam out for some bulkier DualScreener. I'm thinking that mid-game or so, you should still be able to get the screens up since you mention Screens helping Suicune, Salamence, Machamp, and Metagross. I'm seconding the Bronzong suggestion. Don't worry about getting Taunted by Tyranitar since Bulk Up Machamp easily handles him and turns him to a fodder (especially if he is the Taunt lead variant). Alakazam is a great Nape revenger, so like you said, HeatProof is probably more useful in this case...if you DO switch to Bronzong lead, I would probably keep Scarf Flygon for the Speed factor and its ability to revenge Infernape. Other than that, I think switching to frailer Wall-Breakers even under Screens isn't too great. I prefer using CM Pokes or Cursers/Bulk Up Pokes under Screens (CM Jirachi, CM Suicune w/ Rest are what I've used under screens) Other than that, your team's pretty solid!

~Hope I helped somewhat..
 
It does look I should try out Dual Screen Bronzong, considering I've had multiple recommendations. Anyway, it's not just Tyranitar taunting that is an issue; it is the fact that just about everything taunts him, and having my screens set up later can be a bit annoying, since I tend to go on the offensive as soon as I get the screens up. I'm starting to feel this team is more effective in using those screens just to do as much damage at the beginning, and then let me finish up the job once the dust is settled.

Which is probably why I do like Nape; he is good with or without screens. Sure screens don't help too much, but dishing out the extra close combat or overheat before he dies can be quite useful.

My primary gripe with most of these set up special sweepers is that they can't beat Blissey and a lot of other pokemon. And those that can, like SubCMJirachi are vulnerable to other pokemon. Perhaps the biggest issue is that many of them will waste the valuable screen turns setting up; only to get revenged later on. LO CM Cune, as well as Agiligross, Mixmence, and Mixnape (and BU Machamp to an extent) only need 1 boost to begin a sweep, and the screens are merely there to help soak up a hit.

I'm still deciding the final move for metagross, RS/Tpunch/Explosion. Real bummer choosing. Tpunch can really take Skarmory out, and bulky waters, but Rock Slide is a pretty sweet move.
 
After playing last night, I had an epiphany on how I was really supposed to play. I realized that I can't play this like the Deoxys-S dual screen teams in the past, because Alakazam isn't guaranteed to get screens down.

So I just revamped the thing. Machamp is now infernape, and I changed the descriptions to more reflect that this is actually a hyper offensive team that happens to use a dual screen lead for the beginning.

So now because this has turned into a much more offensive team, I am considering SR again. So far, I have relatively few problems with not getting KOs, but perhaps it might be useful. I do know that some teams (like Chou's wall breaking team) are quite successful without rocks. I still need to try out a suicide SR lead, like Aero or Azelf, probably not today though (so much homework so little time...)
 
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