Introduction
Hello everyone. Some of you may recognize me from my Gen 5 days. I'm extremely rusty, but looking to get back into the game more 'seriously'.
So here it is, the team I've been using for awhile. At my peak in this gen I got to barely 1700, but tend to float around 1600, or 1500 on a bad day with this one.
Now, there is no such thing as a perfect team, and I am more than aware of that, but I would like to try and see if I can't perfect this team even more as there are some decisions that I just plain and simple, lack the experience with.
So with that in mind, I will be putting both the team's current 'role' and some other options I was considering or trying. The concept is simple. Using a combination of Iron Valiant and RoaringMoon to break teams apart. The little quote comes from the idea that Valiant sets up Moon for success, and vice versa, at least in theory.
The end result is what I would call a balance team, that I think has solid theory, but a bad pilot... haha.
I am open to any and all changes, but I would like to keep the 'IronMoon' Combination, as I feel it is strong, and frankly, they are two of my favorite designs, I do intend to bully friends with this team as well once I get my pokemon scarlet back from one of my friends. I will also be putting my thoughts as I had started this well before the Chein Pao/ Espathra ban.
In-Depth
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA| 4 Atk | 252 Spe
Moves: Moonblast | Psyshock | Thunderbolt | Close Combat
Tera: Steel
The 'Starting point' as it were for this team. I knew that I really wanted to use Iron Valiant, as I felt that his immediate power and quickness were valuable. A very simple set, designed to hit as many things from both physical and special defensive spectrums, but frankly, it tends to lean more towards 'Moonblast Spam'. Psyshock provides a way to break Clodsire/Amoongus, especially with hazards, Thunderbolt fries a certain metal bird and Toxapex. Close combat is there pretty much exclusively for Kingambit, but does also smack around some variations of Garganacl, which is appreciated.
Tera Steel is there as an emergency Dragonite Espeed check, and makes one immune to Toxic from Toxapex, and lets Iron Valiant take a Make It Rain from Gholdengo, which is helpful. It also helped with taking hits from the likes of Espathra, although that ship has been sunk with the latest banning.
Timid to outpace everything possible. I have yet to do the math on Modest though,.
There have been a few move changes, before I returned to the 'standard' build. Of particular note was dropping Psyshock for Knock Off or Shadow ball for utility and for breaking through Gholdengo easier. Ultimately, I determined that it was better to return back to the original set, due to Clodsire being a hard wall to break without Psyshock. That being said, there is an option that I have considered, but I haven't tested yet, but it involves the other teammates, so I will go over it with them.
If there is one complaint I had with Valiant is that sometimes he just doesn't quite do enough damage on the initial swing. Neutral hits aren't extremely punishing so he's far more reliant on coverage and smacking things on the switch in super effectively than I initially thought. Still, they have more than cleaned up crippled teams, and have cracked open some tough cores for everyone else.
On a more personal note, there are games where I just slam this as the lead mon and start blasting. Obviously its team comp dependent, but it happens far more often and works more often, than I thought it would.
Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Photosynthesis
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Moves: Dragon Dance | Crunch | Iron Head | Acrobatics
Tera: Steel
Roaring Moon is the other 'half' of the offensive duo, and he's a monster. The moveset is a bit... unusual and frankly is up to change. Dragon Dance isn't too hard to set up, especially with the switches Moon tends to force. After a single Dragon Dance, the entire tier is in danger. Crunch is reliable stab that can break down walls, especially with defense drops. Iron Head is there mostly to beat down fairies, like Tera Fairy Garg and Tera Fairy Skeledirge, but the flinch chance is always appreciated against something like a Dragonite that still has its Multiscale which would 'pause' it's setup before you can smash it in the face with a Crunch. Tera Steel is currently being used to allow Iron Head to be a de-facto 'spam' option for flinch and coverage. It also grants a resistance to Scizor's Bullet Punch and again, Extremespeed on Dragonnite and of course, turns Toxapex into almost free setup fodder.
The last slot is contentious. On one hand, Acrobatics hits like a truck and is a great 'neutral' option. Being able to break Amoongus with ease is always appreciated. However, lacking Earthquake does hurt. Specifically against Clodsire and Kingambit.
This is where the moveslot on Valiant is a bit of a tossup. Because Clodsire exists, I feel one of the two should run the 'anti-Clodsire' option. For Valiant, that's Psyshock. For Moon that's Earthquake. So far I've been able to outplay Clodsire and Kingambit with other mons, but they are notable problems for the core if not handled properly. Notably, Crunch will smash Clodsire hard, and Iron Head can be used to flinch it to avoid poison if I don't want to tera, but having the option to just straight up kill the thing is appealing. If I did run Earthquake on Roaring Moon, I think Knockoff would be the move of choice to replace Psyshock on Valiant. Please, let me know your thoughts
All that aside, due to Booster Energy giving an attack boost, Roaring Moon does function as a more 'immediate' powerhouse that can quickly snowball out of control, especially after Valiant has run his own course through the enemy lines. Conversely, Roaring Moon's ability to punch holes through the likes of Volcarona, Rotom-W, Skeledirge and Garganacl are something that Iron Valiant appreciates greatly.
Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
Moves: Stealth Rock | Energy Ball | Earth Power | Mortal Spin
Tera: Grass
Arguably the most contentious member of the team. Everyone knows what Glimmora's job is. "Set up hazards". Still, even though everyone knows it's job, it does it well. Earth Power hits hard, and with Tera Grass, both Rotom and Great Tusk are going to either be killed or limping back to their Pokeballs. With Mortal Spin, even Hatterene isn't too pleased to switch in.
There is something worth noting. That, despite being sashed, I do not use Glimmora as a suicide lead. Into bulkier teams, having repeated access to Mortal Spin to keep hazards off the board, is valuable. In particular, with the sash, keeping it around for either Barraskewda or Floatzel is frankly, a silver bullet to a VERY rain weak team.
While I am still, iffy on this mon. I cannot deny that its ability to get up hazards, and lure in two of the bigger walls in the format in the form of Rotom-W and Great Tusk, has been a huge asset, as those two can check the IronMoon combination. It being an emergency rain 'answer' was a nice find as well.
Rotom - W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP | 8 Spe | 252 SpD
Moves: Volt Switch | Hydro Pump | Will-o-Wisp | Protect
Tera: Steel
Ah, good 'ol Rotom-W. A mon that has been good since it's creation. With the above three mons covering the offensive ends of the team, I wanted to start to work on a defensive backbone for the sweepers to setup with. Rotom-W fit the bill in spades. Volt switch obviously is an amazing move, allowing for chip and the bring in any mon after thats better for the situation. Hydro Pump I wish was Surf, but when it does decide to hit, deals with Tusk and Treads. Will-o-wisp lets this Rotom keep Kingambit and Dragonite in check. Its also very common as a blind fire option, particularly into rain teams that still have their Treads up.
Defensively, being able to go head to head with Gholdengo is huge. In addition, this is the primary water resist and 'turn staller' for things like weather, terrain and even the rare TrickRoom thanks to protect. As the only ground immunity, it is vital to the team's success defensively.
With the Ev's it is also my primary special attack sponge. It was originally physically defensive, but I found myself getting blown through by the likes of Gholdengo. With essential bulk, resistances, and momentum, I have yet to be disappointed in Rotom-W... Except when he misses multiple Hydro Pumps....
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP | 4 Spd | 252 SpA
Moves: Make It Rain | Shadow Ball | Trick | Focus Blast
Tera: Fighting
Ah the literal golden boy of this generation. Gholdengo frankly, is a mon who's entire existence might change now with the banning of Chien-Pao. When it was added to the team, it's main job was to revenge kill Chien Pao. Now adays, its main purpose is to be an Amoongus/Breloom switch in, Trick something and then hurl Shadow Balls.
Spinblocking of course, is valuable to my team, but really, the offensive power and the one time anti-wall bullet in trick are valuable options for the team. A huge steel nuke that most mons are not happy to take, and with Tera Fighting, Ting lu has to be mildly concerned for its life in Focus Blast... if it decides to land.
Again, Kingambit is a big problem as a whole, so having Focus Blast is a necessary evil... I would use something else, but Tera Blast is so bad if you aren't Tera'd. I have tried other builds of Gholdengo, but none have stood the test of time, of being a multi-role mon. Being a hard hitting mon with a great defensive typing, Gholdengo both forces switches, allowing for potential doubles into either Moon or Valiant, or even cleans up after them with scarf.
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Photosynthesis
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 Hp | 252 Def | 4 SpD
Moves: Earthquake | Body Press | Knock Off | Rapid Spin
Tera: Water
The sixth and final member of this team has been everything from AV Tusk, to AV Quaquaval, to Brambleghast, to Garganacl. This last slot needed to fufill quite a few different roles. First, ideally, a defensive mon that had hazard control. Second, it had to be able to still hit back reasonably hard. And finally, it had to be functional, with or without Tera.
Leftovers Defensive Tusk fit all these bills. Being able to smash things into the dirt with Earthquake and knock off, having hazard control with Rapid spin, it was great (tusk). Tera Water is there almost exclusively for rain teams. Being able to hard wall Floatzel/Bara is incredibly helpful. This alleviates pressure from Rotom W, who would otherwise crumble underneath the waterspam.
The fourth slot has been swapped about a few times. I've tried things like Stone Edge, for the famous edge quake combo. I had stealth rock on there too. I even had Protect on there, before going to Body Press as per standard. However, with the death of Chien-Pao, perhaps this slot would be better for Ice Spinner. While the Kingambit matchup would be worse, its not like it will want to stay in on Earthquakes. And if it tera's then Ice Spinner smacks it hard too. Ice Spinner would also help against Dragonite but also would be interesting into thePsySpam team, being able to remove the terrain might be worth it.
Its still a thought, albeit not a tested one. Let me know what you think.
Final Thoughts: Ultimately, I am very happy with how this team has been performing, even in the hellscape that was Chein-pao and Espathra spam. However, I am just one man. And while the OU Lobby has offered great advice, I am curious as to how the people on the forums will dissect this team apart. Some notable issues are the ubiquitous Psyspam. Its winnable, but it is a difficult matchup.
Rain is also a problem child, Often times it requires an early slam of Rotom-W into Valiant to try and steal the march on it, before it really gets going. From there, protect stalling with Rotom until rain runs out, or just straight up tanking it with a combination of Glimmora's focus sash and Great Tusk's water Tera, are your only hopes... and neither of those are great into the... surprisingly rare Golduck.
Unaware mons are also a bit of a problem, in particular I've found a well played Clodsire all but shuts the team down or puts me so far behind on tempo that I can't catch back up. Dondozo is in a similar boat, but is far easier to deal with...Skeledirge is an issue but only if substitute is in the equation.
In addition, although it is much easier without Chein Pao running about, extremely fast mons like Dragapult are a surprising headache that I don't have a good answer to other than revenge killing it with Valiant. As a result, it can quickly runaway with the game.
The lack of Spikes does hurt, especially in the stall matchup, but I am unsure if it is worth putting Stealth Rock on Tusk so Spikes can go on to Glimmora... That extra coverage move on Tusk has been huge.
A lack of priority options hasn't been too big of an issue, but it is felt especially in the Kingambit 50/50 Sucker punch or not mind game.
Finally, thank you so much for reading my jumbled mess. Its been a long time since I've written one of these, so hopefully I made some sense. I look forward toreading your responses!
Importable
https://pokepast.es/172fdc547d8e9d65 Here's a pokepaste of the entire team as it stands right now.
https://pokepast.es/1a65c762c64fce22 This is the 'bulky offense version' mentioned and explained in the comment section! Feels pretty good too!
General rule of thumb for the naming...First number is a pokemon change, and the second a moveslot change....
Replay!
By no means a 'skilled' game. But it showcased the general idea of the 'Hammer and Chisel' between Roaring Moon and Iron Valiant:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798728995-9gvwqw94e29yv010idcwsgjrxgyyjjypw
Hello everyone. Some of you may recognize me from my Gen 5 days. I'm extremely rusty, but looking to get back into the game more 'seriously'.
So here it is, the team I've been using for awhile. At my peak in this gen I got to barely 1700, but tend to float around 1600, or 1500 on a bad day with this one.
Now, there is no such thing as a perfect team, and I am more than aware of that, but I would like to try and see if I can't perfect this team even more as there are some decisions that I just plain and simple, lack the experience with.
So with that in mind, I will be putting both the team's current 'role' and some other options I was considering or trying. The concept is simple. Using a combination of Iron Valiant and RoaringMoon to break teams apart. The little quote comes from the idea that Valiant sets up Moon for success, and vice versa, at least in theory.
The end result is what I would call a balance team, that I think has solid theory, but a bad pilot... haha.
I am open to any and all changes, but I would like to keep the 'IronMoon' Combination, as I feel it is strong, and frankly, they are two of my favorite designs, I do intend to bully friends with this team as well once I get my pokemon scarlet back from one of my friends. I will also be putting my thoughts as I had started this well before the Chein Pao/ Espathra ban.
In-Depth
Iron Valiant @ Booster Energy
Ability: Quark Drive
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA| 4 Atk | 252 Spe
Moves: Moonblast | Psyshock | Thunderbolt | Close Combat
Tera: Steel
The 'Starting point' as it were for this team. I knew that I really wanted to use Iron Valiant, as I felt that his immediate power and quickness were valuable. A very simple set, designed to hit as many things from both physical and special defensive spectrums, but frankly, it tends to lean more towards 'Moonblast Spam'. Psyshock provides a way to break Clodsire/Amoongus, especially with hazards, Thunderbolt fries a certain metal bird and Toxapex. Close combat is there pretty much exclusively for Kingambit, but does also smack around some variations of Garganacl, which is appreciated.
Tera Steel is there as an emergency Dragonite Espeed check, and makes one immune to Toxic from Toxapex, and lets Iron Valiant take a Make It Rain from Gholdengo, which is helpful. It also helped with taking hits from the likes of Espathra, although that ship has been sunk with the latest banning.
Timid to outpace everything possible. I have yet to do the math on Modest though,.
There have been a few move changes, before I returned to the 'standard' build. Of particular note was dropping Psyshock for Knock Off or Shadow ball for utility and for breaking through Gholdengo easier. Ultimately, I determined that it was better to return back to the original set, due to Clodsire being a hard wall to break without Psyshock. That being said, there is an option that I have considered, but I haven't tested yet, but it involves the other teammates, so I will go over it with them.
If there is one complaint I had with Valiant is that sometimes he just doesn't quite do enough damage on the initial swing. Neutral hits aren't extremely punishing so he's far more reliant on coverage and smacking things on the switch in super effectively than I initially thought. Still, they have more than cleaned up crippled teams, and have cracked open some tough cores for everyone else.
On a more personal note, there are games where I just slam this as the lead mon and start blasting. Obviously its team comp dependent, but it happens far more often and works more often, than I thought it would.
Roaring Moon @ Booster Energy
Ability: Photosynthesis
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
Moves: Dragon Dance | Crunch | Iron Head | Acrobatics
Tera: Steel
Roaring Moon is the other 'half' of the offensive duo, and he's a monster. The moveset is a bit... unusual and frankly is up to change. Dragon Dance isn't too hard to set up, especially with the switches Moon tends to force. After a single Dragon Dance, the entire tier is in danger. Crunch is reliable stab that can break down walls, especially with defense drops. Iron Head is there mostly to beat down fairies, like Tera Fairy Garg and Tera Fairy Skeledirge, but the flinch chance is always appreciated against something like a Dragonite that still has its Multiscale which would 'pause' it's setup before you can smash it in the face with a Crunch. Tera Steel is currently being used to allow Iron Head to be a de-facto 'spam' option for flinch and coverage. It also grants a resistance to Scizor's Bullet Punch and again, Extremespeed on Dragonnite and of course, turns Toxapex into almost free setup fodder.
The last slot is contentious. On one hand, Acrobatics hits like a truck and is a great 'neutral' option. Being able to break Amoongus with ease is always appreciated. However, lacking Earthquake does hurt. Specifically against Clodsire and Kingambit.
This is where the moveslot on Valiant is a bit of a tossup. Because Clodsire exists, I feel one of the two should run the 'anti-Clodsire' option. For Valiant, that's Psyshock. For Moon that's Earthquake. So far I've been able to outplay Clodsire and Kingambit with other mons, but they are notable problems for the core if not handled properly. Notably, Crunch will smash Clodsire hard, and Iron Head can be used to flinch it to avoid poison if I don't want to tera, but having the option to just straight up kill the thing is appealing. If I did run Earthquake on Roaring Moon, I think Knockoff would be the move of choice to replace Psyshock on Valiant. Please, let me know your thoughts
All that aside, due to Booster Energy giving an attack boost, Roaring Moon does function as a more 'immediate' powerhouse that can quickly snowball out of control, especially after Valiant has run his own course through the enemy lines. Conversely, Roaring Moon's ability to punch holes through the likes of Volcarona, Rotom-W, Skeledirge and Garganacl are something that Iron Valiant appreciates greatly.
Glimmora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Toxic Debris
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 SpA | 4 SpD | 252 Spe
Moves: Stealth Rock | Energy Ball | Earth Power | Mortal Spin
Tera: Grass
Arguably the most contentious member of the team. Everyone knows what Glimmora's job is. "Set up hazards". Still, even though everyone knows it's job, it does it well. Earth Power hits hard, and with Tera Grass, both Rotom and Great Tusk are going to either be killed or limping back to their Pokeballs. With Mortal Spin, even Hatterene isn't too pleased to switch in.
There is something worth noting. That, despite being sashed, I do not use Glimmora as a suicide lead. Into bulkier teams, having repeated access to Mortal Spin to keep hazards off the board, is valuable. In particular, with the sash, keeping it around for either Barraskewda or Floatzel is frankly, a silver bullet to a VERY rain weak team.
While I am still, iffy on this mon. I cannot deny that its ability to get up hazards, and lure in two of the bigger walls in the format in the form of Rotom-W and Great Tusk, has been a huge asset, as those two can check the IronMoon combination. It being an emergency rain 'answer' was a nice find as well.
Rotom - W @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Nature: Calm
EVs: 248 HP | 8 Spe | 252 SpD
Moves: Volt Switch | Hydro Pump | Will-o-Wisp | Protect
Tera: Steel
Ah, good 'ol Rotom-W. A mon that has been good since it's creation. With the above three mons covering the offensive ends of the team, I wanted to start to work on a defensive backbone for the sweepers to setup with. Rotom-W fit the bill in spades. Volt switch obviously is an amazing move, allowing for chip and the bring in any mon after thats better for the situation. Hydro Pump I wish was Surf, but when it does decide to hit, deals with Tusk and Treads. Will-o-wisp lets this Rotom keep Kingambit and Dragonite in check. Its also very common as a blind fire option, particularly into rain teams that still have their Treads up.
Defensively, being able to go head to head with Gholdengo is huge. In addition, this is the primary water resist and 'turn staller' for things like weather, terrain and even the rare TrickRoom thanks to protect. As the only ground immunity, it is vital to the team's success defensively.
With the Ev's it is also my primary special attack sponge. It was originally physically defensive, but I found myself getting blown through by the likes of Gholdengo. With essential bulk, resistances, and momentum, I have yet to be disappointed in Rotom-W... Except when he misses multiple Hydro Pumps....
Gholdengo @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Good as Gold
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 HP | 4 Spd | 252 SpA
Moves: Make It Rain | Shadow Ball | Trick | Focus Blast
Tera: Fighting
Ah the literal golden boy of this generation. Gholdengo frankly, is a mon who's entire existence might change now with the banning of Chien-Pao. When it was added to the team, it's main job was to revenge kill Chien Pao. Now adays, its main purpose is to be an Amoongus/Breloom switch in, Trick something and then hurl Shadow Balls.
Spinblocking of course, is valuable to my team, but really, the offensive power and the one time anti-wall bullet in trick are valuable options for the team. A huge steel nuke that most mons are not happy to take, and with Tera Fighting, Ting lu has to be mildly concerned for its life in Focus Blast... if it decides to land.
Again, Kingambit is a big problem as a whole, so having Focus Blast is a necessary evil... I would use something else, but Tera Blast is so bad if you aren't Tera'd. I have tried other builds of Gholdengo, but none have stood the test of time, of being a multi-role mon. Being a hard hitting mon with a great defensive typing, Gholdengo both forces switches, allowing for potential doubles into either Moon or Valiant, or even cleans up after them with scarf.
Great Tusk @ Leftovers
Ability: Photosynthesis
Nature: Impish
EVs: 252 Hp | 252 Def | 4 SpD
Moves: Earthquake | Body Press | Knock Off | Rapid Spin
Tera: Water
The sixth and final member of this team has been everything from AV Tusk, to AV Quaquaval, to Brambleghast, to Garganacl. This last slot needed to fufill quite a few different roles. First, ideally, a defensive mon that had hazard control. Second, it had to be able to still hit back reasonably hard. And finally, it had to be functional, with or without Tera.
Leftovers Defensive Tusk fit all these bills. Being able to smash things into the dirt with Earthquake and knock off, having hazard control with Rapid spin, it was great (tusk). Tera Water is there almost exclusively for rain teams. Being able to hard wall Floatzel/Bara is incredibly helpful. This alleviates pressure from Rotom W, who would otherwise crumble underneath the waterspam.
The fourth slot has been swapped about a few times. I've tried things like Stone Edge, for the famous edge quake combo. I had stealth rock on there too. I even had Protect on there, before going to Body Press as per standard. However, with the death of Chien-Pao, perhaps this slot would be better for Ice Spinner. While the Kingambit matchup would be worse, its not like it will want to stay in on Earthquakes. And if it tera's then Ice Spinner smacks it hard too. Ice Spinner would also help against Dragonite but also would be interesting into thePsySpam team, being able to remove the terrain might be worth it.
Its still a thought, albeit not a tested one. Let me know what you think.
Final Thoughts: Ultimately, I am very happy with how this team has been performing, even in the hellscape that was Chein-pao and Espathra spam. However, I am just one man. And while the OU Lobby has offered great advice, I am curious as to how the people on the forums will dissect this team apart. Some notable issues are the ubiquitous Psyspam. Its winnable, but it is a difficult matchup.
Rain is also a problem child, Often times it requires an early slam of Rotom-W into Valiant to try and steal the march on it, before it really gets going. From there, protect stalling with Rotom until rain runs out, or just straight up tanking it with a combination of Glimmora's focus sash and Great Tusk's water Tera, are your only hopes... and neither of those are great into the... surprisingly rare Golduck.
Unaware mons are also a bit of a problem, in particular I've found a well played Clodsire all but shuts the team down or puts me so far behind on tempo that I can't catch back up. Dondozo is in a similar boat, but is far easier to deal with...Skeledirge is an issue but only if substitute is in the equation.
In addition, although it is much easier without Chein Pao running about, extremely fast mons like Dragapult are a surprising headache that I don't have a good answer to other than revenge killing it with Valiant. As a result, it can quickly runaway with the game.
The lack of Spikes does hurt, especially in the stall matchup, but I am unsure if it is worth putting Stealth Rock on Tusk so Spikes can go on to Glimmora... That extra coverage move on Tusk has been huge.
A lack of priority options hasn't been too big of an issue, but it is felt especially in the Kingambit 50/50 Sucker punch or not mind game.
Finally, thank you so much for reading my jumbled mess. Its been a long time since I've written one of these, so hopefully I made some sense. I look forward toreading your responses!
Importable
https://pokepast.es/172fdc547d8e9d65 Here's a pokepaste of the entire team as it stands right now.
https://pokepast.es/1a65c762c64fce22 This is the 'bulky offense version' mentioned and explained in the comment section! Feels pretty good too!
General rule of thumb for the naming...First number is a pokemon change, and the second a moveslot change....
Replay!
By no means a 'skilled' game. But it showcased the general idea of the 'Hammer and Chisel' between Roaring Moon and Iron Valiant:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1798728995-9gvwqw94e29yv010idcwsgjrxgyyjjypw
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