It's Britney B*tch

[Usatoday]

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Flower Paradise Graphics

Introduction
Hello all this is I believe my fifth rmt here on smogon and I have brought to you today a sand stall team I have been laddering with and have rather nice success, it is a team focused around stalling out power points and health with toxic from toxic spikes. The team itself is focused around to really unappreciated pokemon in the form of bulky kyurem and sub roost zapdos both of which have pressure and function near perfectly together.

Team In Preview

Brief Team Building Process

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I started off with a sand core I thought would be able to take on a lot of things in the common metagame, however it was still flawed and raped by hail, and volcarona.

Then I threw in a volt turn core of jolteon and scizor that allowed me to better check hail teams and threw in a calm minding latias that would allow me to have a set up sweeper. The problem with this point in the team is that it was rather shitty and extremely gimmicky to the point of stupidity with thing such as wish passing jolteon.

This was the third version of the team that focused more around a sub roost kyurem stalling out pokemon with substitute, pressure to stall terrakion out of its stabs moves for example. I also threw in a forretress over scizor to give me more of a defensively based team which also gave me access to having a toxic spiker which was something I had been needing. Xatu was the last one fit in and one that I felt would help forretress with hazard prevention/removal.

Xatu wasn't pulling it's weight so I gave the team a pokemon that could check thundurus therian and landorus incarnate rather well. Zapdos fit well in place of xatu with better special attack and a stronger heat wave I could better abuse when dealing with ferrothorn, as well as a secondary sub rooster.

Heatran joined the group over cradily due to its amazing special bulk and ability to sponge draco meteors, as well as wall calm mind latias lacking surf.

After some testing and suggestions I moved back to latias it provided better walling capabilities on the team.

In Depth Description

Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Analysis: Heatran here has filled an important role since I began testing ovr my former member of cradily for this slot, what it brought to the table was amazing. Now I have never been a big fan of specially defensive heatran simply because it refuses to work for me, however in this team it seemed to mesh too well with the rest of the team. It single handily countered any form of sun without a dugtrio which is quite a bit as most of them have nothing that appreciates a sun boosted lava plum. Heatran also allowed me to check latias that wasn't life orbed so that I could phase them out with roar. Lava plume allows heatran to have a form of stab that has an incredibly annoying rate to burn the opponent, it also will hit grass types such as venusaur, non earth power celebi, and ferrothorn. Toxic enables heatran to smight the wicked souls of ou that would want to switch in and hence is able to cripple quiver dance volcarona, and latias. Roar allows me to rack up toxic and stealth rock residual damage. Finally stealth rock should be fairly evident to cripple volcanrona among other things.

EVs: The evs are fairly evident eight speed allows heatran to outpace minimal speed heatran, while the rest is thrown into special defense and health to take hits better.
252 SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 248 HP / 252 SpDef Leftovers Flash Fire Heatran (+SpDef): 20.5% - 24.2% (79 - 93 HP). Guaranteed 5HKO.

Too high
Can’t come down
It’s in the air
And it’s all around
Can you feel me now

Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang
- Whirlwind
- Earthquake

Analysis: Secondly we have hippowdon the weather summoner. It allows me to run weather control upon rain and sun teams when I get rid of the toad or demonic fox. Slack off allows for hippowdown to be the only weather summoner with reliable recovery and I put this to good use stalling out pokemon with sandstorm damage. Earthquake allows for hippowdown to have a stab move to hit things such as terrakion, magnezone, and the rare cobalion. Ice fang is the move that was put over stealth rock and is one I have never regretted putting on it as it allows for hippowdown to hit the ever annoying dragon dance dragonite and the rare substitute swords dance garchomp. Whirlwind is the final move on hippowdown to allow for me to phaze out set up sweepers such as haxorus as they attempt to swords dance or dragon dance.

EVs: The evs are fairly straight forward max defense to optimize the ability hippowdown has to tank hits. The hp evs allow hippowdown to hit a perfect leftovers number. The remaining evs are put into attack to add a little extra kick.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion (Neutral) Close Combat vs 252 HP / 252 Def Leftovers Hippowdon (+Def): 44% - 52% (187 - 222 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

It’s getting late
To give you up
I took a sip
From my devil's cup
Slowly
It’s taking over me

Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald

Analysis: Here we have the all mighty stash he is the mastermind behind this team as his puppetry allows him to keep all the hazards I set down assuming he lives long enough to see it through the entirety of the battle. Taunt is first on the is first on the list allowing me to take on nuisances such as skarmory, opposing jellicent, and hippowdon. It also allows me to completely shut down some pokemon that love to switch into jellicent such as amoonguss and gastrodon so that I can toxic them and eventually wear them down. Toxic allows for me to hit physical attackers who will attempt to switch in to jellicent wanting to hit it on its weaker side with either choice banded earthquake or stone edge. The next move is scald.
EVs: The evs on jellicent are fairly straight forward as they allow jellicent to peak out with leftovers recovery with the 176 hp evs this allows me to transfer some of the leftovers hp evs to defense to help tank a hit from terrakion if I need to late game and hippowdown has died. The rest are put into special defense to help jellicent check keldeo, landorus incarnate, and offensive heatran.

252 SpAtk Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus (Neutral) Earth Power vs 176 HP / 252 SpDef Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+SpDef): 41% - 49% (159 - 189 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

Baby, can’t you see
I’m calling
A guy like you
Should wear a warning

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
IVs: 0 Spd
Relaxed Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Volt Switch / Gravity
- Rapid Spin

Analysis: Would you like your clothes tumble dried? Anyways forretress here has quite a bit of pressure on it to remove stealth rock primarily as they rack up rather quickly when I have to constantly switch around to counter what my opponent has out. You may question my use of overcoat over sturdy, however I believe that forretress as a spinner is meant to come in on hazards sponge a hit and remove them. Hence why overcoat is more effective, it also is handy to have around for hail teams so I can spin on their tentacruel or bulky starmie. Gyro ball is their primarily to let me deal with substituting kyurem black that lack hidden power fire which is most of them. It is also handy to hit offensive spinblockers, the premier being gengar who usually takes a big giant turd upon forretress. However I will generally gyro ball as they sub and then volt switch predicting the disable. Volt switch hence is something that has saved my hide more times than I can count with this team as it allows forretress to act as a much needed pivot switch allowing me to go into the appropriate counter. It also focuses around me predicting their spinblocker coming in if they have multiple hazards set up. Gravity however is also an option as it allows any pokemon that is not poison or steel type to be hit by the toxic spikes. This would be mainly important for touching latias If I can phaze it in with hippowdown. Toxic spikes finally was chosen over spikes to allow me to hit various pokemon so that they can be toxic stalled by either kyurem or zapdos.

EVs: The evs give it enough to sponge some hits on the physical side, while being able to take one crucial special attack so that I can spin. These include a draco meteor from latios, or a thunder from jirachi.

252 SpAtk Gengar (Neutral) Focus Blast vs 252 HP / 80 SpDef Leftovers Sturdy Forretress (Neutral): 49% - 58% (175 - 207 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 17% chance to 2HKO with Leftovers.


Too high
Can’t come down
Losing my head
Spinning ‘round and ‘round
Do you feel me now

Latias (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 Hp | 228 Def | 28 Spd
Bold Nature
- Dragon Pulse
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Roar

Analysis: Suggested to me by mcdanger Latias here has been one of the biggest improvements to the team as it gives me not only a way to deal with keldeo but a main switch into landorus incarnate as with the physically defensive spread I can sponge not only U-Turns from landorus but also it gives me a 50/50 chance to go head to head with a choice banded tyranitar and come out alive. Most tyranitar will pursuit me anyways because they think I can't really do anything to them. However with the addition of roar on latias I can phaze out the tyranitar live a hit and then recover off at a convenient time. This is where the mind games happen, when tyranitar rears it's ugly face again to try to kill latias I have a 50/50 shot of them crunching me or pursuiting me. I will always switch out the second time into my forretress predicting the crunch sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't. Calm mind is what makes latias the most potent pokemon on this team as it gives me a late game win condition. Recover obviously allows me to heal off damage and dragon pulse is a stab move to prevent me from being taunt bait.

EVs: The ev spread is fairly straight forward the speed investment allows me to outspeed breloom with maximum health investment to sponge hits and the rest thrown into defense.

252 Atk Tyranitar (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP / 228 Def Latias (+Def): 48% - 57% (174 - 206). Guaranteed 2HKO.

There’s no escape
I can’t wait
I need a hit
Baby, give me it
You’re dangerous

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spd
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave / Roar

Analysis: Zapdos is obviously the best electric type so take a back seat pikachu. Zapdos fills one of the most crucial roles in this team as it is the singe best check I have to tornadus, landorus incarnate, and thundurus therian because of its high special bulk. Pressure is the crux of this set and my purpose for using it, with pressure I can stall my opponent out of certain moves that have low power points such as the hydro pump from keldeo and rotom wash. Substitute also allows for zapdos to have a safe option to switch out and scout out the opponents sets. Substitute also allows for me to also switch zapdos out safely from the ever reoccurring choice banded pursuit from tyranitar. Roost allows zapdos to stall out my opponent via sandstorm and toxic. It also lets me keep zapdos healthy so that I can switch in multiple times on ever common threats I need zapdos for. Thunderbolt allows for me to hit bulky water types such as vaporeon, jellicent, and politoed. It also provides for a stab that can do some decent damage against some of the weaker pokemon in the tier. Finally there are two options I usually alternate for the last move slot, heat wave allows for me to hit scizor, ferrothorn, and prevent forretress from rapid spinning. However roar removes a lot of pressure from hippowdon to phaze out special sweepers such as calm mind latias, and volcarona.

EVs: The ev spread here is very simple to explain the health evs allow for zapdos to hit and odd number allowing more stealth rock switch ins while still maintaining the perfect leftovers number. The speed allows for zapdos much like kyurem to outrun standard defensive gliscor. I threw the rest into defense investment to help zapdos sponge some hits.

252 SpAtk Keldeo (Neutral) Hydro Pump vs 192 HP / 252 SpDef Zapdos (+SpDef): 40% - 48% (151 - 178 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

With a taste of your lips
I’m on a ride
You're toxic I'm slipping under
With a taste of a poison paradise
I’m addicted to you

Battle Replays

| 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 |

Currently Testing

Import

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Heatran @ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spd
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Hippowdon (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Slack Off
- Ice Fang
- Whirlwind
- Earthquake

Jellicent (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD
Calm Nature
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Recover
- Scald

Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overcoat
EVs: 248 HP / 180 Def / 80 SDef
IVs: 0 Spd
Relaxed Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Volt Switch
- Rapid Spin

Latias @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- Roar
- Recover

Zapdos @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spd
Calm Nature
- Roost
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave

Retired Members

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Cradily (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Analysis: First off is Cradily which is perhaps the backbone of the team and perhaps the best special sponge this team has. This is my primary switch in to things such as gengar's shadow ball, choice specs draco meteor from latios, and tank a variety of ice attacks even. Recover allows for me to stall out pokemon either by sandstorm or via toxic damage from toxic spikes It also helps keep cradily healthy allowing me to come in on threats more often. Giga drain is obviously a stab move that allows for me to hit bulky water types such as politoed, gastrodon, and jellicent. It also allows for me to ware down hippowdon, tyranitar, and kingdra. Hidden power fire allows for me to nail forretress, ferrothorn, and more importantly scizor. Scizor is the most important because it seems to love switching into cradily more often than not wanting to get a free U-Turn off. Finally stealth rock allows me to alleviate of one of the biggest threats this team has to face volcarona as it must first switch in on rocks and then find a way to set up. Stealth rock on cradily may seem weird over hippowdon however it allows for me to have room for ice fang on hippowdon. Storm drain is really my original use for this pokemon as it allows me to alleviate pressure off of jellicent to solely counter rain to the point that if I lost jellicent I would get dominated by rain.

EVs: The evs here are really quite simple, the hit point evs allow for cradily to hit a perfect leftovers number, this allows for me to invest a little into special attack which actually allows for me to add a little extra fire power into the government.


32 SpAtk Cradily (Neutral) Hidden Power (Fire) vs 252 HP / 0 SpDef Scizor (Neutral): 61% - 73% (212 - 252 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Kyurem @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 176 Hp | 8 SAtk | 248 SDef | 76 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Substitute
- Roost

Analysis: It's clear to see who is better here in the competition of kyurem v. keldeo. Joking aside kyurem is one of the most crucial members on the team as it allows me to troll my opponents to high hell yess high hell, not low hell. Ice beam allows for kyurem to be one of the best defensive ice types around that can still hit like a freight train. Ice beam still nets a potential ohko on multiscale dragonite, and latios. Earth power is the most important move this kyurem has and is extremely important to this team as without kyurem I have no switch i to heatran or way to kill it. Roost allows kyurem to stall out pokemon such as rotom wash, celebi, and kyurem black. The amazing thing about kyurem is that it allows me to take on chlorophyll sweepers like venusaur, and lilligant and ohko them back with ice beam.

EVs: The ev spread is weird on this kyurem however they do have a point. The special defensive investment and the hp evs allow for kyurem to be able to set up a sub on a specially defensive heatran and not have its sub be broken by lava plume. The rest are split into special attack and speed to outrun standard sub toxic gliscor.

252 SpAtk Life Orb +2 Venusaur (+SAtk) Sludge Bomb vs 176 HP / 148 SpDef Kyurem (+SpDef): 68% - 80% (297 - 351 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

​

 

[samurott69]

Rated

I approve of the synergy between jellicent and forretress although i'm not so sure about cradily. Its not really a strong pokemon, id replace that. Why do you even have hippowdon and fortress? one would be enough to set up, yeah I know that you wont have rapid spin but still.
First thing i'd do is remove cradily and fortress, give hippowdon some hazard setting moves and have a pokemon to exploit sandstorm. If you really have to make hippowdon offensive then change its ability and get a sandstorm tyranitar to set up. I'd also make jellicent offensive, trust me, its good.
You can replace cradily with conkeldurr as tyranitar would set up sr, and conkeldurr will take care of scizor and all in sandstorm.
Blissey is good too.
let me know your revised team.
__________________________________
http://pokeblogz.blogspot.com

 

[Box]

This is Sand Stall. The justifications for your suggestions don't even make sense.

You do realise that Cradily is a Specially Defensive behemoth in sand, right? Also, there is absolutely no reason to run Conkeldurr to "beat" Scizor as Zapdos walls all sets to hell and back. Offensive Jellicent is stupid (what does it beat that he needs beaten?) and he absolutely needs a spinner to keep hazards down to keep up switching. Forre is also his only Dragon resist.

And how is his Hippowdon offensive!? And why would you run anything besides Sand Stream on it? Sheesh. Seriously don't give advice if you don't even know how things mesh together in OU.

IMO, your team is extremely solid and I can only nitpick.

You absolutely want Heat Wave over Roar on Zapdos. I know it's already the main slash, but it allows you to destroy Scizor and Ferrothorn in addition to eliminating unscarfed Abomasnow. Also, Heat Wave lets you beat the rare Sawbucks carrying Jump Kick, which would destroy Kyurem-B. Whirlwind on Hippowdon is sufficient to check 0 investment CM Latias as even +2 Dragon Pulse fails to OHKO.

Consider Spikes over Toxic Spikes on Forretress. Sometimes you want to burn things with Jellicent (Terrakion, Dragons) instead of poisoning them. Spikes still gives you residual damage, while retaining the ability to choose which status you want to inflict on mons.

On that note, give Toxic to Jellicent and Scald over Surf if you went with the above suggestion. The reasons are obvious: you still want Toxic sometimes and Scald gives you a great burn chance.

As a passing thought, CM Latias over Kyurem seems like it would do more for your team, as sun threats are already checked by weather and the likes of Zapdos, and gives you a Fight Gem Focus Punch Breloom switch-in. Honestly I haven't tested your team so I can't say for sure, but really good job!

 

[Mylo Xyloto]

Hi! its a pretty cool team you got. I do have a suggestion to hopefully improve it. Firstly I think Heatran > Cradily would fit your team better since most of the Threats you mentioned are handled by it. Heatran + Jellicent is a pretty good core covering most of the tier, it Also walls/ checks about the same pokemon that Cradily would check. With massive defences and a brilliant typing it can check all the team's weaknesses bar breloom. Heatran, like Cradily also provides Stealth Rock. Heatran really benifits from Forretress' Toxic Spikes, this enables heatran to use Earth power , which hits opposing SDef Heatran from 'beating' you. With Roar you also beat CM latias easier. Between Toxic Spikes damage and Life Orb recoil, I don't think Breloom is a bigger threat than Latias. You also have Zapdos whom resists both of Breloom's STABs. Hope I helped and good luck~

@ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 Hp / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

 

[victinivcreate1]

Cool team!!! Not bad and the synergy is pretty good. I love the use of Zapdos and Kyurem, as they are quite underrated.


However, this team is EXCEEDINGLY weak to SubSDSalac Terrakion. At +2, he 2HKOs/OHKOs every member on this team, even 252 HP/252 Def+ Hippos are 2HKOed by CC. You can't touch him if he's behind a Sub.

I'd replace Cradily for Landorus-Therian. Cradily is a fairly poor special wall, even in Sandstorm, and Zapdos is MUCH better. Landorus Therian gives you the ability to better troll Terrakion and also is a pretty good pivot. It also is exceedingly powerful, as EQ and Stone Edge will deal MASSIVE damage to neutral targets.

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Adamant Nature
EVs: 200 HP/64 Atk/244 Def
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Calm Mind
-U-Turn

Calm Mind is here because this thing often forces switches to special attackers. Use CM to better take weaker special moves. It also somewhat solves your loss of a special wall.

U-Turn is for momentum, and Edgequake is for STAB (quake) and great coverage (edge).

Hope this helps and Luvdisc'

 

[dinodino56]

Hello UsaToday, Heat Wave seem like a better choice on Zapdos because Abomasnow looks like a bigger threat than Latias.Also,There are alot of Pokemon with Roar out there.I agree with Mylo Xyloto on Picking Heatran.It can roar out Latias and Own Abomasnow.Watch out for the ones with Focus Blast or Random Hp Ground lol.

Great Team and Luvdisc (=

EDIT:P.S. I luvdisc before i Read your RMT I knew it was going to be good =)

 

[ElectivireRocks]

I'm a bit skeptical about SubRoost Kyurem in a sand team.
I absolutely love that set and I'm aware of how destructive it can be, especially against rain teams, but your team already has Cradily, Jellicent and Zapdos to deal with them.

 

[Usatoday]

I approve of the synergy between jellicent and forretress although i'm not so sure about cradily. Its not really a strong pokemon, id replace that. Why do you even have hippowdon and fortress? one would be enough to set up, yeah I know that you wont have rapid spin but still.
First thing i'd do is remove cradily and fortress, give hippowdon some hazard setting moves and have a pokemon to exploit sandstorm. If you really have to make hippowdon offensive then change its ability and get a sandstorm tyranitar to set up. I'd also make jellicent offensive, trust me, its good.
You can replace cradily with conkeldurr as tyranitar would set up sr, and conkeldurr will take care of scizor and all in sandstorm.
Blissey is good too.
let me know your revised team.
__________________________________
http://pokeblogz.blogspot.com

No just no I think box explained well enough to you that this is a sand stall team.

This is Sand Stall. The justifications for your suggestions don't even make sense.

You do realise that Cradily is a Specially Defensive behemoth in sand, right? Also, there is absolutely no reason to run Conkeldurr to "beat" Scizor as Zapdos walls all sets to hell and back. Offensive Jellicent is stupid (what does it beat that he needs beaten?) and he absolutely needs a spinner to keep hazards down to keep up switching. Forre is also his only Dragon resist.

And how is his Hippowdon offensive!? And why would you run anything besides Sand Stream on it? Sheesh. Seriously don't give advice if you don't even know how things mesh together in OU.

IMO, your team is extremely solid and I can only nitpick.

You absolutely want Heat Wave over Roar on Zapdos. I know it's already the main slash, but it allows you to destroy Scizor and Ferrothorn in addition to eliminating unscarfed Abomasnow. Also, Heat Wave lets you beat the rare Sawbucks carrying Jump Kick, which would destroy Kyurem-B. Whirlwind on Hippowdon is sufficient to check 0 investment CM Latias as even +2 Dragon Pulse fails to OHKO.

Consider Spikes over Toxic Spikes on Forretress. Sometimes you want to burn things with Jellicent (Terrakion, Dragons) instead of poisoning them. Spikes still gives you residual damage, while retaining the ability to choose which status you want to inflict on mons.

On that note, give Toxic to Jellicent and Scald over Surf if you went with the above suggestion. The reasons are obvious: you still want Toxic sometimes and Scald gives you a great burn chance.

As a passing thought, CM Latias over Kyurem seems like it would do more for your team, as sun threats are already checked by weather and the likes of Zapdos, and gives you a Fight Gem Focus Punch Breloom switch-in. Honestly I haven't tested your team so I can't say for sure, but really good job!

Offensive jellicent actually isnt bad with rain and a life orb it can achieve quite a few of ohkos but anyways jellicents move change seems like a great idea it will help combat latias. Roar is if I'm angry from just being swept by a latias really lol. CM Latias might work but the roar or refresh variant? I do have to tell you that toxic spikes are actually really helpful for this team but I will try spikes on the team.

Hi! its a pretty cool team you got. a suggestion to hopefully improve it. Firstly I think Heatran > Cradily would fit your team better since most of the Threats you mentioned are handled by it. Heatran + Jellicent is a pretty good core covering most of the tier, it Also walls/ checks about the same pokemon that Cradily would check. With massive defences and a brilliant typing it can check all the team's weaknesses bar breloom. Heatran, like Cradily also provides Stealth Rock. Heatran really benifits from Forretress' Toxic Spikes, this enables heatran to use Earth power , which hits opposing SDef Heatran from 'beating' you. With Roar you also beat CM latias easier. Between Toxic Spikes damage and Life Orb recoil, I don't think Breloom is a bigger threat than Latias. You also have Zapdos whom resists both of Breloom's STABs. Hope I helped and good luck~

@ Leftovers
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 Hp / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Earth Power

I shall test this out as it will delay a future latias sweep and seems like it could be very useful to have around. The fire coverage would also be nice since it would be more powerful from a measely heat wave from zapdos.

Hello UsaToday, Heat Wave seem like a better choice on Zapdos because Abomasnow looks like a bigger threat than Latias.Also,There are alot of Pokemon with Roar out there.I agree with Mylo Xyloto on Picking Heatran.It can roar out Latias and Own Abomasnow.Watch out for the ones with Focus Blast or Random Hp Ground lol.

Great Team and Luvdisc (=

EDIT:P.S. I luvdisc before i Read your RMT I knew it was going to be good =)

Abomasnow is actually cockblocked by that kyurem just see the fourth battle replay thanks for the rate <3.

Cool team!!! Not bad and the synergy is pretty good. I love the use of Zapdos and Kyurem, as they are quite underrated.


However, this team is EXCEEDINGLY weak to SubSDSalac Terrakion. At +2, he 2HKOs/OHKOs every member on this team, even 252 HP/252 Def+ Hippos are 2HKOed by CC. You can't touch him if he's behind a Sub.

I'd replace Cradily for Landorus-Therian. Cradily is a fairly poor special wall, even in Sandstorm, and Zapdos is MUCH better. Landorus Therian gives you the ability to better troll Terrakion and also is a pretty good pivot. It also is exceedingly powerful, as EQ and Stone Edge will deal MASSIVE damage to neutral targets.

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Intimidate
Adamant Nature
EVs: 200 HP/64 Atk/244 Def
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Calm Mind
-U-Turn

Calm Mind is here because this thing often forces switches to special attackers. Use CM to better take weaker special moves. It also somewhat solves your loss of a special wall.

U-Turn is for momentum, and Edgequake is for STAB (quake) and great coverage (edge).

Hope this helps and Luvdisc'

No just no I'm not going to use calm mind landorus theiran with no special attacks cradilys role is to sponge draco meteor something which landorus therian cant do. Also you assumption on terrakion is quite wrong as it first has to find a chance to set up a sub and a second turn to set up the sd by which time I've already phazed it with hippo or kill it with gyro ball from forretress. But thank you for the rate :].

I'm a bit skeptical about SubRoost Kyurem in a sand team.
I absolutely love that set and I'm aware of how destructive it can be, especially against rain teams, but your team already has Cradily, Jellicent and Zapdos to deal with them.

Kyurem in sand is nice as it allows for a chance to stop hail teams dead in their tracks as well as sun teams something which cradily and jellicent can't do.

Thank you all for your rates some things will be updated.

 

[watashi]

this isn't really a proper rate but running a spread of 176 hp | 8 satk | 248 sdef | 76 spd with a modest nature will give kyurem the same stats as your spread with 4 extra satk

 

[Agent Gibbs]

I really think you're overestimating the importance of leftovers numbers. They rarely ever come in handy, and some of your attempts to abuse them have given you inefficient EV spreads. Here are the EV changes I suggest:

Go with a Calm spread of 248 HP / 68 Def / 192 SpD on Jellicent. This gives you similar special bulk, perhaps even a little more (LO Starmie's Thunderbolt does 40.69 - 48.38% to this spread, as opposed to 41.29 - 48.57% to your current spread). This spread also gives you a bit more physical bulk. Your current spread is OHKOd 18.25% of the time by CB Terrakion's Stone Edge after Stealth Rock, but this spread gives you just enough physical bulk to never be OHKOd by that same attack after Stealth Rock.

If you want to outrun defensive Gliscor with Zapdos, then only 36 Spd EVs are necessary. That said, a Calm spread of 248 HP / 224 SpD / 36 Spd will give you similar special bulk (again, LO Starmie's Ice Beam does 46.21 - 55.09% to this spread, as opposed to 47.15 - 55.55% to your current spread), and you gain a bit of physical bulk as well (Scarf Terrakion's Stone Edge now OHKOs 81.25% of the time as opposed to 87.5% of the time with your current spread). I know you wouldn't keep your Zapdos in on a Terrakion, but it's just an example to demonstrate the additional bulk.

Unless you need those Atk EVs for a specific KO, I'd just run full 252 HP on Hippowdon. You need at least 248 to guarantee that CB Terrakion will never 2HKO you with Close Combat from full health, but I'd go with the full 252 HP just for good measure.

Likewise, unless you need those extra SpA EVs for some specific KO, go for the full 252 HP on Cradily as well. For example, Scarf Keldeo OHKOs your current spread after Stealth Rock 25% of the time, but 252 HP would decrease that chance to only 12.5%. This could make it a little safer to bring Cradily in on Keldeo in case Jellicent is down and you need Cradily as an emergency answer to Keldeo or something, among other things.

Is there anything specific that those SpD EVs help with on Forretress? I know you mentioned that it helps with things like Latios's Draco Meteor and Jirachi's Thunder, but even 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD Relaxed Forretress can take a Specs Draco Meteor from Latios after Stealth Rock, and CM Jirachi's Thunder hits pretty weak if it hasn't boosted yet (and your Forretress isn't doing much to stop it anyways). You also gave that Gengar calculation, but Gengar is generally going to have a tough enough time getting past Zapdos as it is. Unless those EVs are chosen for a specific purpose (and they very well could be and I'm just missing something), I'd go ahead and go fully physically defensive on Forretress.

One last thing, definitely go with the spread FLCL suggested on Kyurem.

Just a little EV spread advice. Good luck with your team!

EDIT @ below: http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

That's the one I use. Hope it helps!

 

[Usatoday]

Thank you both of you the ev spread are very helpful is there a calculator the two of you use? If so I would love to see it, it would help greatly.

Edit: Edited bump

 

[Usatoday]

bump

 

[Sweepage]

http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

 

[Usatoday]

http://honko.byethost8.com/manly_calc.html

already found it thanks to gibbs and come on guys bump

 

[Leftiez]

Hey there.
It is a team very interesting, I can't rate your team because it seems very correct but I noticed several weaknesses, how can you kill Reuniclus? You can tell me that you possess Zapdos to use roar or Hippodown with Whirlwind but you hasn't pokemon to make big damage, and if the opponent is not a noob he will let his pokemons die to set up Reuniclus easily, I can not suggest you to change a pokemon but I can suggest you swap the Jellicent set "252 HP/196 Def / 62 Def spe", with this spread you can counter easily Reuniclus because you're 3HKO by psyschock after a calm mind but you can also use taunt + Shadowball to prevent it from using Recover and also to kill him. If u want you can keep your spread to Landorus but pay attention to 2HKO with Psyshock.... then you have Zapdos Specially Defensive.

I noticed that you put tías CM + Volcarona in your list threath, but I don't understand why, I mean heatran can easily come on 2 pokemons, Earth power is totally useless in your team, this is useful only for heatran, then you possess many pokemons to kill Heatran or Revenge kill it, I suggest you put Toxic> EarthPower, with Toxic you can easily kill Volcarona without being force to use roar if it has Roost or if it is chesto berry, same thing against Latias and then with toxic you can wall a Latios or a pokemon set up without using roar, because the opponent can weaken Heatran to finish after, now that you possess Toxic on Heatran you can put the Set of Jellicent.

Jellicent

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Recover
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Scald

Hope I Helped and Good luck with your team.
~Nantsuki.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

I agree with Toxic over Earth Power.

This is a bit un-creative, but running Blissey or Chansey over Heatran effectively does the same thing for this team and it walls Volcarona and opposing Heatrans. Blissey's issue with the Venusaur and Keldeo are solved by other Pokemon on this team rather nicely. Its also a solid check to Thundurus-T. The only loss I can see from this switch would be a bit more of weakness to mixed-Tyranitar, and the lack of phasing.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Stealth Rock

 

[toshimelonhead]

I don't see Latias and Volcarona as threats. SubCMLatias only has 1 attack, Dragon Pulse, and Volcarona isn't getting past Heatran. If I want to maximize the PPstall win condition, though, I would try Tormenttran and put SR on Hippo over Ice Fang. This would also help against Reuniclus as you can stall out Focus Blast PPs pretty easily. I'm sure the set is in the Strategydex, but I would cheat on the speed a little bit and keep your same EV spread since Jolly Tar isn't relevant unless it's scarfed. Something worth testing, though, especially with 2 pressure stallers.

 

[Usatoday]

Hey there.
It is a team very interesting, I can't rate your team because it seems very correct but I noticed several weaknesses, how can you kill Reuniclus? You can tell me that you possess Zapdos to use roar or Hippodown with Whirlwind but you hasn't pokemon to make big damage, and if the opponent is not a noob he will let his pokemons die to set up Reuniclus easily, I can not suggest you to change a pokemon but I can suggest you swap the Jellicent set "252 HP/196 Def / 62 Def spe", with this spread you can counter easily Reuniclus because you're 3HKO by psyschock after a calm mind but you can also use taunt + Shadowball to prevent it from using Recover and also to kill him. If u want you can keep your spread to Landorus but pay attention to 2HKO with Psyshock.... then you have Zapdos Specially Defensive.

I noticed that you put tías CM + Volcarona in your list threath, but I don't understand why, I mean heatran can easily come on 2 pokemons, Earth power is totally useless in your team, this is useful only for heatran, then you possess many pokemons to kill Heatran or Revenge kill it, I suggest you put Toxic> EarthPower, with Toxic you can easily kill Volcarona without being force to use roar if it has Roost or if it is chesto berry, same thing against Latias and then with toxic you can wall a Latios or a pokemon set up without using roar, because the opponent can weaken Heatran to finish after, now that you possess Toxic on Heatran you can put the Set of Jellicent.

Jellicent

Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 196 Def / 60 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Recover
- Taunt
- Shadow Ball
- Scald

Hope I Helped and Good luck with your team.
~Nantsuki.

Ya the calm mind latias and volcarona were threats to the old team before I added heatran Im just a little lazy to update it, secondly reuniclus is non existant todays metagame and when its found it is generally a offensive trick room set that I can stall out with zapdos until trick room is gone via substitute and roost and then do some damage with thunderbolt. However Jelllicents spread is worth looking at although its what I use to sponge special attacks quite often. Thanks :]

I agree with Toxic over Earth Power.

This is a bit un-creative, but running Blissey or Chansey over Heatran effectively does the same thing for this team and it walls Volcarona and opposing Heatrans. Blissey's issue with the Venusaur and Keldeo are solved by other Pokemon on this team rather nicely. Its also a solid check to Thundurus-T. The only loss I can see from this switch would be a bit more of weakness to mixed-Tyranitar, and the lack of phasing.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Calm Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Softboiled
- Stealth Rock

Toxic is something I will be doing to change right now as it lets me hit pokemon switch ins such as politoed and other water types, however earth power is amaing for tentacruel to help get rid of it as its ssub toxic set its notorious for is amazingly hard to take down but kyurem should be able to cover that so Ill try it immediately. Blissey doesnt feel right on the team though it never does much for the team but sit there and stall it also leads me a litttle weak to things with 404 subs liike subcm rachi.

I don't see Latias and Volcarona as threats. SubCMLatias only has 1 attack, Dragon Pulse, and Volcarona isn't getting past Heatran. If I want to maximize the PPstall win condition, though, I would try Tormenttran and put SR on Hippo over Ice Fang. This would also help against Reuniclus as you can stall out Focus Blast PPs pretty easily. I'm sure the set is in the Strategydex, but I would cheat on the speed a little bit and keep your same EV spread since Jolly Tar isn't relevant unless it's scarfed. Something worth testing, though, especially with 2 pressure stallers.

As much as I love torment tran and the amount of switches it forces however as the team lacks spikes I feel that this would be not very useful, Sr over ice fang is something I'm not willing to give up as ice fang lets me immediately kill choice scarf salamence, and dd dnite right off the bat or if not kill severely cripple them.

Comment Ignored

Also tested spikes > toxic spikes and have to say not the best I guess I could try them over volt switch thoughts?

 

[FatLeech]

I've been testing this team a little bit and i'm enjoying it, i also gave this thread a Luvdisc.
As a new player, at the moment i am only 1500, I have a couple of questions:

1: How do you deal with Shell Smash Cloyster, do you use the Forretress? he has been my best counter for it.
2: What do you use versus a special wall like Blissey that knows heal bell and toxic? I find my self outstalled often as this team has few physical attacks.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[Usatoday]

I've been testing this team a little bit and i'm enjoying it, i also gave this thread a Luvdisc.
As a new player, at the moment i am only 1500, I have a couple of questions:

1: How do you deal with Shell Smash Cloyster, do you use the Forretress? he has been my best counter for it.
2: What do you use versus a special wall like Blissey that knows heal bell and toxic? I find my self outstalled often as this team has few physical attacks.

Thanks in advance for your reply.

Cloyster can rarely hurt heatran jellicent and forretress unless it packs surf which is rare, blissey is just destroyed by jllicent and kyurem

 

[Soul Fly]

I'm not sure why you're speed creeping your heatran "to outspeed opposing heatran", since your Tran set does Zilch to any heatran bar Roar, which has negative priority.

I'd suggest dropping those leftovers in SpA or Maximizing SpD.

 

[Usatoday]

I'm not sure why you're speed creeping your heatran "to outspeed opposing heatran", since your Tran set does Zilch to any heatran bar Roar, which has negative priority.

I'd suggest dropping those leftovers in SpA or Maximizing SpD.

Heatran actually use to have earth power but ill do that when i get time

 

[Shurtugal]

EDIT:

I'm finally on a computer so I can give you a proper rate:

Sheer Force Conkeldurr looks like it can beat everything you have (literally, you have exactly zero safe switch ins). Swords Dance Breloom also seems like a Pokemon that could easily set up on just about everything and than murder your team with its dual STABs. I'm also seeing NP Thundurus-T as a threat too (especially if they're FB / HP Ice / TBolt, although the DubDance is also quite threatening). After +4, they can kill everything).

I'd actually recommend using LO Latias over Zapdos. LO Latias can still check / counter Landorus Therian and it checks Thundurus-Therian much better (and the spread I'll give you should be 3HKO'd by Hurricane so it can check Torn too). LO Latias's Psyshock can hit Conkeldurr hard as well as that Draco Meteor STAB, and it can wall Breloom as well (which is just a plus). With Jellicent and Heatran, it's ability to knock down Scizor is not missed.

Latias Spread

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 112 Hp / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Roost

Quick note: EVs on Latias survive +2 Sludge Bomb from Venu and is 3HKO'd by +0 Sludge Bomb.

 

[Usatoday]

EDIT:

I'm finally on a computer so I can give you a proper rate:

Sheer Force Conkeldurr looks like it can beat everything you have (literally, you have exactly zero safe switch ins). Swords Dance Breloom also seems like a Pokemon that could easily set up on just about everything and than murder your team with its dual STABs. I'm also seeing NP Thundurus-T as a threat too (especially if they're FB / HP Ice / TBolt, although the DubDance is also quite threatening). After +4, they can kill everything).

I'd actually recommend using LO Latias over Zapdos. LO Latias can still check / counter Landorus Therian and it checks Thundurus-Therian much better (and the spread I'll give you should be 3HKO'd by Hurricane so it can check Torn too). LO Latias's Psyshock can hit Conkeldurr hard as well as that Draco Meteor STAB, and it can wall Breloom as well (which is just a plus). With Jellicent and Heatran, it's ability to knock down Scizor is not missed.

Latias Spread

Latias @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Nature: Timid
EVs: 112 Hp / 144 SpA / 252 Spe
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock / Psychic
- Roost

Quick note: EVs on Latias survive +2 Sludge Bomb from Venu and is 3HKO'd by +0 Sludge Bomb.

Actually went with a different spred that takes on breloom but thundurus really doesn't give me too much of a problem between heatran and zapdos it depends on the dub dance coverage move because one of them walls it. Breloom was a threat however with latias and zapdos it can't really touch me without the two of them gone, forretress is also a back up check. You are right though that conkeldurr can be annoying luckily its incredibly underused. Also did some testing and changes