ITS OVER 9,000!!!!!- OU RMT

[Crimsonhaze14]

WHAT? OVER 9,000!?!?!?!​

TEAM OVER 9,000​

At A Glance

OVERVIEW
What I wanted to do with this team was be able to set up a Tyranitar sweep late game, as well as have a tightly knit team that can work together to win. Everybody has their role, and everyone relies on the others to get their job done. Unlike most of my teams, this team only contains two non-OU pokes. I've had reasonable success with this team if I think before I act, and use everyone to their potential. So in depth, here it is.

Changes I've been trying

Alright, so after much testing and tinkering, I'm taking Wind2008's idea of a Jolteon, but using it in tandem with Charizard. I feel it works the best for my team and 90% of the time, Charizard comes in after rocks are gone. Hitmontop is VERY reliable at that. Jolteon also allows me to cover Vaporeon's Electric weakness off while allowing it to regain LO recoil. Mangnezone just didn't hit hard enough and didn't do enough to get a place on here, and Jolteon can deliver.

LEAD
Diomedes (Swampert) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- Stealth Rock
- Roar

Basically this is your standard lead mixpert. But it never disappoints. This bad boy always gets rocks up, usually can beat the opposing lead, and can roar away any Gyarados or Suicune that thinks it's set-up bait. Also, it messes up all Ninjasks that try to set up a baton pass. EQ and Ice Beam give so great coverage, taking care of almost everything. Only problems are against LeadApe with Grass Knot, but i can usually set up rocks the first turn when it does.

Spinner/Surprise Killer

Heracles (Hitmontop) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rapid Spin
- Sucker Punch
- Close Combat
- Mach Punch/Stone Edge

With Charizard a crucial part of my team, Hitmontop is one of the most reliable spinners there are. This is the standard RS set, but without foresight, where i op for just sucker punch. Some might question why I have Sucker punch and mach punch on the same set, but usually I go with Stone Edge, Mach punch is just for some occasions that i prefer it. Close Combat is for STAB, and is basically required. Sucker Punch actually allows me to switch into Gengar and get a OHKO, Alakazam, and 2HKO Starmie (without Psychic) while still staying alive and supporting. Hitmontop also can absorb Rock moves headed towards Charizard, then hit back with Close Combat.

The Revenge Killer

Odysseus (Charizard) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Modest nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Air Slash
- Hidden Power Ice
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast

This guy suprises everyone he faces, and gets a couple of KO's to go with the surprise factor. He outruns basically everything that isn't scarf'd, but still packs quite a punch. I used to run Flamethrower on this set, but I realized the trade in accuracy is a fair trade off for the huge boost in power. Dragon Pulse is obviously for Dragons, Focus Blast is for those stupid Rock types, especially Ttar, although I would hope Charizard doesn't have to try to kill it. I run Air Slash over HP for many reasons. For one, a secondary STAB is very important. When I know i can pick off weakened Pokemon without using Fire Blast, or think my opponent is going to switch, Air Slash will usually get a neutral hit on anything switching in, or kill whatever stays in. Also, since Charizard almost always goes first, the 30% flinch rate pays huge dividends. It allows me almost a second life 30% of the time when I use it, which could very well change the entire game in my favor. Charizard can pick off a huge amount of threats, basically any weakened sweeper that isn't DD gyarados. Since I wasn't running HP Grass/Electric, I realized I could use HP Ice in place of Dragon Pulse! DP is to hit dragons, and HP Ice hits them a lot harder (180 power vs 280, for most dragons). It's paid dividends for me since now I can OHKO Salamence with our without rocks, something I was not capable of before. Also, to everyone who says that Charizard cannot work because rocks will always be in, that is not the case. Charizard only comes in after I am sure rocks are down (thank you Hitmontop) and almost always begins at 100% health.

Healer and the Bulk

Perseus (Vaporeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 188 HP/252 Def/68 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Wish
- Surf
- Protect
- Toxic/Hidden Power Electric

Wish support is key in any team. Vaporeon is without a doubt the best in the business, with great bulk and typing. I am extremely torn on my last move, however. Toxic is great in letting me outstall and screw with people in many situations. But HP Electric allows me to take out Gyarados very easily, which is key when Magnezone can't necessarily switch in safely. Any help on making this decision would be greatly appreciated. I need it. Anyways, Surf is a must, high power, STAB, and 115 SpA puts a dent in many. Whenever some loser tries to surf away Charizard or Tyranitar, Vappy gets 1/2 of a wish back for free. Charizard can switch into Celebi trying to Leaf Storm and Blast it if it stays in. Pert can take any Electric attacks aimed for it and dish out a EQ right back at it.

Kickstart My Heart

Menelaus (Jolteon) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- Hidden Power [Grass]

The second half of my revenge killer/mid game sweeper tandem. Jolteon and Charizard cover each other pretty damn well, to say the least. Jolteon also basically eliminates Vaporeon's weakness, and instead it turns it into a healing mechanism for it. Pretty nifty stuff. HP Grass is for those Swamperts who think they're so darn cool. Twave is to take out anything i deem fit to live right now, but cripple. Shadow Ball is for coverage, especially Celebi and Rotom-A. Tbolt does a terrific amount of damage, and leaves a dent anything this side of Blissey and the Grounds. Jolteon gives me that extra kick I need without the fear of being choice'd. It has worked wonders for me.


The Cleaner

Ajax (Tyranitar) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 104 HP/144 Atk/72 Def/188 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Fire Punch

The bulky Counter DD set. Personally, I am a huge fan of bulky sweepers that have a way to get around the speed deprivation. This Ttar does it, and can take away many of its common counters, mainly scizor, physical swampert, and hippowdon. This is another reason Magnezone isn't needed as much, as I can take care of Scizor with Fire Punch. Then it can DD and sweep. Crunch is used because Stone Edge NEVER hits for me, even though it supposedly hits 80% of the time. hahaha. EQ is for coverage. But this leaves me easily walled by Skarmory, but Charizard can take him out pretty damn easily. Tyranitar is more durable with the EV's, allowing it to take more petty hits while it sets up. Vappy's wish also comes in handy if he's weak but is getting a second chance to sweep. When a fighting type tries to kill it, here comes Charizard to let rip an Air Slash. Grass? Charizard. Water? Vappy. Ground? Charizard. Bug? Charizard. You get the point.

Team Making Process

I love Charizard with a burning passion and ScarfZard gives me a surprise factor, yet a power revenge killer.

Charizard needs a spinner, and someone to take care of it's x4 rock weakness. Hitmontop takes care of both of those requirements as well as helping out against many physical threats (intimidate) and its ability to take down others with close combat/sucker punch.

Charizard has a weakness to water as well.. so why not put in someone that is completely immune to it? Also, water STAB is a valuable thing against many foes. Wish support is key as well, to heal Zard if Hitmontop fails his RS role. Also you need a counter to Gyrados on every team, and there it is.

I need a lead still. Rocks can help in so many ways, and i also need a phazer to get me out of some sticky situations. Swampert comes to mind, doesn't it? It also gets a useful immunity to electric, something my team needs. So far the synergy is coming together.

I'm still missing a sweeper. I need someone that isn't going to be OHKO'd by a shuckle's tackle, but something that can still dish out damage. The Ttar set I use is bulky enough to allow it to stay alive while cleaning up after a few DD's.

Instead of the horrible Magnezone, I get more bang for my buck with Jolteon. Faster, more powerful, everything I want. He also compliments everyone very, very well. Great addition, although people will probably be disappointed that Charizard is still here. He's just too valuable when one can play him correctly.

Conclusion

This is my second RMT, and everybody will probably be able to pick it apart and make it a lot better. But from my use of it, it has been the most successful team I've had, and only want to make it better.

THREAT LIST (copied from Wind2008 who got it from someone who got it from someone)
Threat list uses pokemon that I'm testing from Wind2008's advice

Scizor: Charizard.

Salamence: Charizard, Swampert, Jolteon

Gyarados: Jolteon better deliver or else I have to rely on Vappy

Rotom-Jolteon's Shadow Ball takes care of it.. if Ttar can Crunch before it can WoW, its okay

Heatran: Swampert, Hitmontop, Charizard, can kill, Jolteon can beat non scarf'd version for a revenge kill, Vappy

Latias: Swampert if it doesnt have Grass Knot. Jolteon's shadow ball dents it pretty well, too.

Metagross: Swampert and Zard

Lucario: Swampert, Zard, Hitmontop

Infernape:Swampert if it doesn't grass knot, Charizard, Vappy

Jirachi: Jolteon can beat them, Tyranitar can if it isn't scarfd/I have a couple DD's, Charizard

Gengar: Jolteon, but Hitmontop generally destroys it.

Swampert: Jolteon, TTar's counter

Blissey: swampert and Hitmontop

Azelf: swampert almost always beats it.. it uses taunt and then SR while i Ice Beam both times, then it either explodes or dies from another ice beam.

Starmie: jolteon and somewhat swampert, along with hitmontop.. sorta

Gliscor: swampert is the best, but vappy can work in a pinch,

Vaporeon: jolteon

Magnezone: hm. Charizard, Hitmontop, Swampert

Kingdra: ugh. idk. sorta Jolteon

Breeloom: Hate the guy so much. Best bet is to take the sleep then bring in Charizard

Skarmory: TTar's Fire Punch after a few DDances. But Jolteon can take him, as well as Charizard

Bronzong: Zard's Fire blast or Shadow Ball from Jolteon

Celebi:Shadow Ball from Jolteon, Crunch from TTar if it outspeeds, Charizard as well.

Flygon: ice beam from Swampert does the job, HP ice from Zard

Suicune: Jolteon

Jolteon: Swampert.

Empoleon: Jolteon, Swampert, hitmontop

Forretress: I use it to set up TTar, zard can kill it too

Electivire: Jolteon can absorb it but not really take a hit, Swampert can EQ and KO it.

Togekiss: Jolteon, Swampert

Weavile: Charizard.

Aerodactyl: Jolteon can kill it, so can swampert

Mamoswine: Vaporeon can slowly but surely take it down, Charizard can kill it.

Snorlax: Hard to take down.. Hitmontop before it curses.

Dusknoir: Jolteon's shadow ball

Smeargle: i hate it. can't really beat it without having an anti-lead. usually just roar it away to stop the baton passing

Ninjask: icebeam/roar from swampert, Charizard, Jolteon

Tentacruel: jolteon rapes it.

Dragonite: Zard and Pert

Roserade: HP ice from jolteon, ice beam from swampert though not a good idea. Charizard.

Porygon-z:well... its not a very durable guy so most everyone can take it out, but fear statuses from triattack

Cresselia: Jolteon and TTar

Heracross: Charizard!

Umbreon: Hitmontop

Alakazam: shadow ball from jolteon
.,
Zapdos: ice beam from swampert. HP ice from Zard as well for the surprise KO.

 

[toddthegreat]

Interesting team. Well balanced.

I don't necessarily like Charizard, I would trade him for Heatran. There are many instances in which stealth rocks still be in play on your side and 50% stealth rock damage isn't good at all for Charizard. But I know how much you stated you loved Charizard, so this might not be feasible for you.

I run a little different hitmontop set with technican, but I've never used stone edge and that sounds like a great idea. In many cases, you might get will-o-wisped by dusknoir and rotom while attempting to set up with T-tar or rapid spinning with Hitmontop. I would use a mixed t-tar set with dragon dance that maybe included flame thrower, so you won't get walled by physical walls (especially since you didn't add 252 evs to t-tar's attack, so it makes it easier for you to get walled.)

 

[mox]

the problem with charizard as a reveng killer is that once rocks is set its kinda suicidal plus what happens when hitmontop dies and you have no rapid spinner?

 

[Wind2008]

I don't have time for a full rate,so this will be brief.

You have a problem,your revenge killer is 4x weak to something that will almost always be up in OU.

While you do have a spinner,this only goes so far..what if the person you're facing has SR on something that isn't their lead and you sacrifice your spinner before they come out?

Or what if you come in to spin,get it away but later they set it up before getting their sweeper in?

You can't be sure you will never have SR on your side of the field even with a spinner,and a revenge killer needs to be able to come in without worrying about being KO'd.

So,Charizard(while very cool) isn't really a good option here,if you want to go with a surprise fire type,even Typhlosion would be better-his weakness is more bearable.

But I recommend you don't get a fire type at all,because SR is just too common.
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I recommend:

Timid|252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP|
Choice Specs/Life Orb

Thunder Bolt | HP Grass(Ice/Fighting) | Shadow Ball | Baton Pass

This gives you a harder hitting Pokemon (usually) that doesn't require the field be stripped of rocks.

The HP depends on if you want to be able to KO Tyranitar,Swampert or Dragons..It's totally up to you.

If you use LO use Sub over Baton Pass.
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With that said,after this change your team has no need for a spinner,this free's up another spot,I feel dropping Charizard even though you really like it is going to improve the team a lot.

I think for Hitmontop's position a Salamence would be welcome,it provides you with a much needed Ground immunity,and adds more of a punch to your team.

Naive|232 Atk / 252 Spe / 24 Spa
Life Orb

Dragon Dance | Outrage | Earth Quake | Fire Blast

Standard set,works wonders..really incredible sweeper that would bring your team to a whole new level offensively.

I would say MixMence is an option,but with Specs Jolteon already hitting like a truck I don't see a good reason to go Mixed.
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Another possible option would be Scizor,who will allow for weakening and scouting rather then all out sweeping since you want to do a TTar sweep.

Adamant|252 Atk / 248 HP / 8 Spe
Choice Band

Bullet Punch| U-Turn | Pursuit | Superpower

Another standard set,it's so good it's hard to deviate from this.

It would add a really powerful scouter/softener to your team,and would also draw out steels for your Magnezone to munch on if you choose to keep it.

This vs Salamence depends on if you would rather keep Ttar as your primary sweeper or if you would prefer to leave him as the star of the show.



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Now,Magnezone..you're welcome to keep it,even with a Jolteon on your team it's a great Pokemon to have to stop those steels in their tracks to clear the way for Ttar(or Salamence)'s rampage.

But you should consider other Pokemon since you have Jolteon already,two electric types may end up being redundant..variety gives you a better chance of being able to win.

Options I think could work are:

Latias:Jolteon and Latias cover each other pretty well,you shouldn't have too many issues using these two as your special attacking core.

Togekiss:Another decent partner for Jolteon,with Fire Blast+Air Slash it covers most things Jolteon can't handle..not sure on this one's usefulness,though-just an idea.

Really any Pokemon that can handle Jolteon's weaknesses and do heavy damage is great.

My vote goes for Latias in this space,use LO Latias if you use Specs Jolteon,if you use LO Jolteon use Specs/Scarf Latias,having your special attacking core Choiced all the way can get you in trouble.

How this affects your team:

Ok,well with the changes I've recommended you would be drifting away from a Tyranitar sweep if you don't go with Scizor..you should still go with Jolteon over Charizard though,it's not worth it even if Charizard is the coolest Pokemon ever.




Good luck,and sorry I couldn't recommend a way to make your team better as it is,I just feel Charizard is inferior to similar options because of his typing and Hitmontop isn't incredible without Rapid Spin being really important for you it's really hard to justify keeping him.

Will probably edit with more full descriptions and a better how this affects you bit soon,I have to sleep for now.

 

[Crimsonhaze14]

First off, thank you everyone who rated, you all have been a huge help. So what I'm hearing is that charizard is a weak link, which I totally get. So like wind suggested, I will test out a jolteon (specs version, probably) in charizards's slot. I like the idea of salamence as well.. but two DD's might be a little repetitive, so I'll have to try it out. With jolteon on my team, magnezone is redundant, so I want to try latias, though I'll mess around in that spot to see if I can find someone else to compliment jolteon. Once again, the rates have been really helpful, so thank you and keep them coming.

 

[Crimsonhaze14]

just updated/added the threat list, as well as how some of the changes have been working for me.

 

[Crimsonhaze14]

bump. added changes once more and need more rates. Jolteon is new addition to team and I decided to keep Charizard. will update threat list with new team when i get the time.

 

[Aircraft Cemetery]

Hello,

You asked me for a rate, so I will do my best to help.
First of all I think your team is really creative and quite well thought indeed. However I think some things could be improved in order to be more successful. Here is what I would change:

Swampert: No changes needed here. Good lead set

Charizard: I also like Charizard but in my opinion it shouldn't be used as a revenge killer in OU. A revenge killer has to switch in many times, which is impossible for Charizard if Rocks are down and there are way better Choice Scarf revenge killers available. However as you said you like it so much I won't suggest dropping it. If you can guarantee that Rocks won't be up, Charizard is an okay Scarfer. However I think you should change the set slightly. First you should use a Timid nature or DD Salamence will laugh at your attempt to revenge it. Then I think a set of FireBlast, Focus Blast, HP Electric and Dragon Pulse will work better than your present set. You won't need Air Slash as it doesn't hit anything you'll want to revenge super effectively. HP Electric is there to ohko Gyarados while Dragon Pulse will always ohko DD Salamence after Stealth Roch damage.
(If you should somehow decide to drop Charizard let me know, I will suggest a good replacement.)

Hitmontop: Well, of course you need a reliable spinner in order to use Charizard at all. But Hitmontop is not the best choics for that because Spin Blockers like Rotom-A will have an easy time. You won't hit them with Sucker Punch as they will probably not attack but WoW you. So I would drop Hitmontop for Forretress. It has access to Payback, a good move to damage Ghost switchins and it can lay down multiple entry hazards itself as well. Also it provides you with a Dragon resist, something every team should have in today's dragon-steal based metagame.
Forretress@Shed Shell
Impish-252HP, 212SpDef, 44Atk
-Rapid Spin
-Payback
-Spikes
-Pain Split

Tyranitar: I don't think that Counter is a good choice here. You don't use Stone Edge, which is not acceptable imo. The coverage you lose is more important than a surprise ko. If you fear Scizor, a Babiri Berry in conjunction with DD, Stone Edge, Crunch and Fire Punch will work. If you want to keep Lefties, I would just use Stone Edge over Counter.

Vaporeon: Good set. Just the decision between Toxic and HP Elc is hard. If you use HP Elc on Charizard, you can use Toxic on Vaporeon. However even if you use HP on Charizard, you should maybe also use HP on Vaporeon due to Charizard's inability to safely switch into Gyara. On the other side Toxic can also wear Gyara down and Jolteon provides a strong TBolt for Rest Gyara versions. So I would probably try Toxic.

Jolteon: You said it works well in your team, so no major changes necessary I guess. The only thing I would reconsider is ThunderWave. You should only keep it if you feel your team absolutely needs the Para support. If not, Charge Beam is the superior choice by far as it will allow Jolt to boost its SpAtk to sweep more effectively. The choice between HP Grass and Ice is hard. However as your team will have real trouble against Swampert without any Grass move, I would stick with HP Grass.

Hope I could help you. Good Luck !

 

[Crimsonhaze14]

thank you ACC for responding so quickly, i really appreciate it. Now about the rates.

I will change Zard's nature to Timid. and i'll try out the moveset as well. Its just sometimes DP doesnt OHKO salamence with SR damage and i am fucked.

Now about Forretress. I've never tried one out. But I'm curious about how it would do one v one against Rotom-A with WoW? cant it just outkill it?

Jolteon- Charge Beam does sound like a reasonable choice in the 4th slot, and i'll see how i can use it. But it seems i might not have the chance, unless im against a gyarados.

I will keep Toxic on Vappy. It works so much better than HP Elec, and since charizard carries it, along with jolteon's tbolt.

Im thinking of changing TTar to a totally offense DDtar with Babiri, sort of like you suggested. and i do feel SE is pretty necessary on him.

Thank you again for the rate!

 

[Aircraft Cemetery]

Hi again,

First of all I'm glad m my post already helped you.

Now about Forretress. I've never tried one out. But I'm curious about how it would do one v one against Rotom-A with WoW? cant it just outkill it?

Forretress won't beat Rotom-A one on one, especially if it's carrying WoW or Overheat (in case it's the oven). However that's not what it's supposed to do. It is supposed to hit Rotom for a 2hko in most cases, so that Rotom will only get the chance to switch into Forretress once (at best twice). No spinner is able to reliably beat Ghosts one on one (and I really think for good reason). But Forretress fares quite well against them, so I think it should actually work. Also it provides you with a dragon resist and Spikes, which makes it the best choice for your team.

As far as Jolteon is concerned I know that you won't always be able to use Charge beam for a boost. The thing is that I believe you won't benefit much from TWave as most Jolteon switch ins won't mind it at all (Swampert, Blissey, Gliscor, Flygon and others). Also Jolt itself won't need the para support as it is already one of the fastest things out there.
So TWave is an option if you feel you need it but most of the time Charge Beam should work better.

The other changes you made are good I believe. Just remember: If you should opt for HP Ice on Charizard to ohko Dragons, HP Electric probably becomes the superior choice over Toxic on Vaporeon.

Solid team now. Good Luck !

 

[Crimsonhaze14]

They have helped tremendously. Thank you.

Forretress is working great for me now, actually. and my issues about working against ghost havent come up as much as i thought it would, which is a very good thing.

I'm still up in the air whether to go with Charge Beam or Twave. It just depends on the situation, and through my trials, I barely have the chance to use charge beam. But its still up in the air.

I'm using HP Electric on Charizard, with the set you told me, so I'm keeping Toxic on Vaporeon.