Jabba Hail!

JabbaTheGriffin

JabbaTheGriffin

Stormblessed
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PUPL Champion
This has been my main team for a while now, but it's started to lose me some important battles through not being able to cover some very important threats. I don't see how I can cover these threats without changing the core of Jabba Hail, so I'm thinking I'm going to retire it. I figured I'd take one shot at the RMT forums to see if I can get some help from people who otherwise wouldn't be able to lend a hand and possibly save jabba hail! So here it is:

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Abomasnow (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 HP/16 Spd/240 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Substitute
- Blizzard
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Protect Abom makes a pretty awesome lead, allowing me to scout my opponent's often choiced lead pokemon. Pumped special attack because i love the punch that 300+ sp. attack Blizzard hits with. Made this team with the initial goal of making a team to help Mamoswine rape things, but it eventually just evolved into a team that just plays more defensively and tries to wear down my opponent for Mamoswine

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Mamoswine (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Snow Cloak
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Hasty nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Blizzard
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Mamoswine is awesome. Blizzard prevents Skarmory from walling it, effectively bringing safe switch-ins to Cresselia and Bronzong. Saved my as plenty of times, but teams have been more prepared for it lately :/

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Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 HP/56 Atk/200 Def
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Drill Peck
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Stealth Rock

This spot fluctuates a ton. I feel a steel type is necessary this gen and I don't really like any of them outside Forretress, Skarmory and Bronzong. Tried all three of them and Skarmory was the most successful, yet still doesn't do as well as I would like.

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Starmie @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/40 Def/216 Spd
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Surf
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

I have a hard time making a team without Starmie. Rapid spin comes in handy because Zapdos and Abom don't do their jobs as well if they have to come in on 25% damage every time they need to switch in. Also my Infernape counter and my only fire resist :/

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Machamp (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 252 HP/16 Atk/238 Def/4 Spd
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Dynamicpunch
- Stone Edge
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Resttalk Machamp is awesome. Does a good job of walling Tyranitar and is the only pokemon I can consistently switch into Blissey. I've considered using Ice Punch a few times, but I think Stone Edge just fits better with this team.

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Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP/28 SAtk/230 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Roost
- Sleep Talk
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]

This thing counters Gengar pretty damn well (as well as Yanmega and Togekiss). Sleep Talk is an important piece to walling Gengar and can catch my opponent by surprise occassionally.


Some Clear Problems:
I 3 fire weaks and my only resist is Starmie, which can easily be taken out by pursuit, meaning if my opponent has a pursuiter + Infernape/Heatran I'm in a load of trouble and almost have no way of winning

I'm clearly Salamence weak. Every time I battle Mence I have to sacrifice a pokemon every time it comes out. Not a good thing.

SD Weavile can give me problems if Machamp is weakened at all (which it usually is since it counters so much
 
Can't we give throw Blissey in over Starmie, and Forretress over Skarmory?


You have mentioned how you have tried Forretress, and you told me personally Skarmory is there because it's more sturdier. If we support Forretress with a Blissey. Wouldn't that give the team the Heatran, Salamence, and leave Infernape's against your Zapdos?

I really love this team, Jabbaz. So I wouldn't want to see it go down without some little adjustments:

Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP/176 Def/80 SDef
Relaxed nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Earthquake

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 16 HP/252 Def/240 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock / Seismic Toss
- Softboiled
- Wish
- Ice Beam

Hopefully it will be a successful alternative should you test this out.
 
I'm going to do a little nitpicking first. First of all, I'd much rather do -spdef rather than -def on Mamoswine. It's more likely to survive an SE phsyical attack to special attack, and normally dies to anything special anyways.

I'd also slap a Shed Shell on Skarmory. On this kind of team, I don't think it'd help to have Skarmory trapped, as your team will be kind of...inconsistent with damage I suppose. Which also kinds of bring up the apparently "Magnezone weakness."

Anyhoo, if you feel a steel type is absolutely necessary, and hate those trifecta, you could always try Heatran. Heatran would also keep other Heatrans on their toes, having to guess to Earth Power, which helps out the rest of your team, as opposed to it openly Fire Blasting the whole way around, with or without Starmie. Now determining what kind of Heatran is the problem. IMO, if you're using a RestTalking one, Zapdos becomes expandable, perhaps for something like Cresselia. Or, keep the Zapdos, but use a Stealth Rocking Heatran, perhaps spam Lava Plumes to get a few burns going etc etc.
 
yeah, i thought about heatran too. in fact, i'm pretty sure i've played jabba's hail team with a fire type in it. maybe it was mixape. anywho, get that growthtran combo going. i would just go with scarftran. you caan try giving it sleep talk in one slot and giving zapdos t-wave instead to assist mamo. i'm surprised there isn't more advice on this thread.
 
-For the Salamence weak, we could use Ice shard on Abomasnow over say Substitute, it should be eved to deal around 60% to it which doesn't need a lot of Atk investments, that way with SR up weakening it it can't come after a sacrifice to almost none of your pokes, save skarmory .

-On mamoswine, i believe remove stone edge from there since rock-ice is redudant and use Curse or Rest over it . Curse can make your mamoswine a lot more of a threat, since it can also curse against Bronzong rendering Gyro balls useless . Don't know if that would need Leftovers to work . Also as mentioned use a -Sdef nature since most of the times you will be eating rock/steel attacks .

-Instead of skarmory, you could use a Taunt Heatran if you want it bulky or a +Speed scarftran to help absorb the Fire attacks, and it's a steel type that as you said, every team needs . +Speed nature is for killing other scarftrans that could cause you problems after starmie is weakened .

-Starmie is fine, we have the same syndrome since neither i can make a team without starmie :( .

-I don't know if the 28 Satk evs serve any purpose on Zapdos, but i would suggest you to give them to Speed so that you get 240 speed for stuff like max speed Metagross.
 
Astamatitos said:
i believe remove stone edge from there since rock-ice is redudant
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Remember, Ice Shard isn't doing crap to something like Bold Zapdos, which is where Stone Edge would come in handy.

I actually like Body Slam on Mamoswine for some reason and I absoutely hate Curse.

Forry + Blissey doesn't really help against Infernape...Maybe subbing Zapdos to put Starmie back in could help.

SRBlissey + Bulkydos (which switches in pretty well on Weavile) over Zapdos + Skarm? Covers both your Mence and Weavile problems, while still maintaining coverage against Gengar and Yanmega (not so much Togekiss)
 
If he has Toxic Spikes out he can wear down Infernape without it causing too much trouble at all, not forgetting there's Hail and SR for them to worry about too. Zapdos should be able to cope for the short period of time Infernape's around with all the support.
 
You could use a Scarfed Abomasnow over the Subseeder to kill lead Salamences, most will not run from you and Blizzard obviously OHKOs. It also would free up some moveslots for type coverage, Grass Knot,EQ,Focus Punch, whatever.
 
That won't cure the Salamence weakness. He's said everytime Mence comes he has to sacrafice a Pokemon just to scare it off with Zapdos / Mamoswine.
 
Killing Salamence at the start of the match certainly ends the threat though. Salamence, when on a team, is often used as a lead, which is the usual time Abomasnow's faster speed would come into play, since most players won't switch Salamence out of Abomasnow.
 
I don't think that's convincing enough to warrant a change, but it's up to Jabba. Personally, that theory is flawed.
 
-Cynthia- said:
Killing Salamence at the start of the match certainly ends the threat though. Salamence, when on a team, is often used as a lead, which is the usual time Abomasnow's faster speed would come into play, since most players won't switch Salamence out of Abomasnow.
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Relying solely on the element of suprise, or on "what most players" will do is not good teambuilding. What if you're facing a player who is cautious, and won't take that chance first turn? Or against someone who wants to switch out to their Forretress to set up their TSS strategy? If suprising it first turn is your only gameplan, and that fails, then what?

Furthermore, what does Jabba gain by scarfing it versus what he loses in terms of his overall team synergy?
Taylor said:
If he has Toxic Spikes out he can wear down Infernape without it causing too much trouble at all, not forgetting there's Hail and SR for them to worry about too. Zapdos should be able to cope for the short period of time Infernape's around with all the support.
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Well, since it's Calm + SDef EVed, I see your point. My thinking was that NP Flamethrower could threaten the KO after Stealth Rock, while NP Grass Knot (assuming Infernape carries it) would not. Instant healing helps there too.
 
I was merely stating a way to alleviate the Salamence problem without replacing a team slot. It obviously isn't a foolproof solution, but Scarfabomasnow deals with Salamence better than the subseeding variant.
 
I think you have a weak to CM Jirachi, especially the ones who run Wish over Substitute. Mamoswine is the only one who can revenge kill it, but only if it isnt Timid. Zapdos cant do much without Roar.
Heatran is a good choice to stop that, and would help with things that others people said. Would help too being another fire resist.

edit: I personally prefer Scarf Abomasnow too, but that is just me :P
 
Melodius Trueheart said:
Remember, Ice Shard isn't doing crap to something like Bold Zapdos, which is where Stone Edge would come in handy.
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ice fang though can do some damage. stone edge is only good for hitting gyara, moltres, abonasnow (and other ice types you really only see in hail teams) and charizard. really isn't worth it imo. right now i'm using stealth rock on my mamo and it works well.
 
You could change Machamp to Hariyama; Hariyama can do everything you currently have under Machamp's description and he also gives you a Fire resist with Thick Fat. A spread like 204 HP/ 96 Atk/ 208 Def gives you a lefties number like you have now, same Atk, and overall better Defence, but at the cost of slightly worse over all Sp Defence and some speed.
 
First thing I have to say is you claim your Starmie is your ONLY Infernape counter but thats not true. Zapdos does a great job countering Infernape, especially yours with its pumped up Special Defense and HP. Anyway..

Swampert is going to wall you big time. All Abomasnow can do is stall it and nothing else in your team can take it down. You might say, 'Well Jr, you already answered it for me!' I don't think so seeing as you still have 5 other pokemons to worry about! Once Abomasnow is gone, Swampert can't simply be touched, especially the ResTalk variant. Anyway, this is why I'm thinking it can't hurt to put Grass Knot on Starmie. This still allows it to threaten other bulky waters.

With Zapdos, Rest would work a lot better. It gets rid of statuses and functions well with the obvious Sleep Talk. Seeing as you have no Heal Beller/Aromatherapist, Zapdos being poisoned or burnt will just make one move useless.

Seems like a solid team although I should mention the coolest pokemon ever can take down this team. CalmRachi that outspeeds Jolly Mamo! Just a head-up and saying don't let it set up and ruin your parade.
 
Yeah I forgot to mention Jolly SubCmRachi sweeps me every time if I realize what it is too late.

Swampert can most certainly be touched though. It's going to have no recovery in hail and gets absolutely wrecked by Abom's Blizzard so I don't really have to "stall it out." After Abom goes down I can take it down with Machamp if need be.

Also not going to run rest on Zapdos.

I tried out some of the other things recommended in this thread, such as Heatran, and none of them really worked. I think the problem is I'm having trouble finding a suitable double-switch. I think Heatran could work, but then I would be best off replacing Machamp or Zapdos or I'd be left with 3 resttalkers. Yet I can't think of suitable changes.

Right now I'm thinking Zapdos and Starmie aren't expendable, therefore leaving me with Skarmory and Machamp. I can't think of any 2 pokemon that can sufficiently do their job and more.

I've also thought about taking the team in a more offensive approach, but for this team I have no idea how that would be accomplished :/
 
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