VGC Just another cookie cutter set V2 Electric overdoneloo!

MDK

MDK

Hey all again, so after the reveal of the new VGC rules I needed to make some serious changes to my team if I wanted to keep up with the modified meta, although some mons are exactly the same, some are altered or some are completely new

#1. Groudon Red Orb
Drought- Desolate Land
Brave
EVs: 252 HP/244 Attack/12 Defense
-Protect
-Earthquake
-Dragon Claw
-Lava Plume

Explanation: Okay, so this is my own take on a Primal Groudon set, the EVs focus on a bit of bulk so it can at least take Earthquakes from Landorus T, Mega Rayquaza and opposing Primal Groudon (Having 2 intimidaters on my team helps that even more so even Precipice Blade doesn't his *as* hard or even if it hits. Brave nature is to make sure I at least activate Desolate Land after Rayquaza or in case Primal Kyogre makes a surprise visit but the 31 IVs in speed will give me enough to outspeed any opposing Primal Groudon which probably will be Brave + 0 Speed


Protect is my scout/defense move, stall out opposing Tailwind or just see what my opponent is going to do in general.

Lava Plume, I thought about running a physical fire attack but it occurred to me, Lava Plume can really help my team out in some situations, the spread move means damage plus chances to burn, but what really stood out to me is that it will also hit my Pokemon
But that might be a good thing! Lava Plume activates Heatran's Flash Fire without hurting it, but it might also activate Conkeldurr's Guts and without SpA investment it might not be too bad, of course I can't always rely on this.


Earthquake, alot of people might want to run Precipice Blades, but that chance to miss really worries me, I also have some Pokemon that take into account this weakness to EQ but i'll get to that...

Dragon Claw, this is mainly so I can get damage on Mega Rayquaza which I know I'll be seeing ALOT of, maybe Mega Salamence too though
But I am still iffy on this move, I was considering Iron Head for Xerneas or Thunder Punch to hit Pokemon like Ho-Oh, Lugia, Kyogre etc, so this slot I am really fickled about


#2. Heatran @Chople Berry
Flash Fire
Modest
EVs: 180 HP/252 SpA/ 76 Speed

-Heat Wave
-Flash Cannon
-Earth Power
-Protect

Explanation: Okay, so Heatran is in my opinion my teams least used Pokem---
Nope, not copying this description from my last RMT, Heatran is here! For now, as you can see the only changes I have made so far is the Berry, another Pokemon I had is using the Shuca Berry so I thought a problem I really had when using Heatran is the surprisingly abundance of Low Kick Mega Khan, the Chople Berry will alleviate that for now

Heat Wave- Desolate Land+STAB+ Lava Plume Flash Fire Boost, truly devastating in theory

Flash Cannon is the secondary STAB and it really is my teams forefront way to eliminate Fairy types such as Sylveon, Xerneas and Gardevoir, it also helps in that crucial last kill against my opponents final Pokemon, I cannot tell you how many times Heat Wave failed to connect and nearly cost me the game.

Earth Power is pretty much my situational move, mostly for opposing Heatran and now it might also come in crucial with Primal Groudon

Protect, pretty straight forward and same as Groudon, don't think I need to explain it again.



#3: Conkeldurr Sitrus Berry
Guts
Adamant
EVs: 20 HP/ 248 Attack/ 12 Defense/228 SpD

-Drain Punch
-Ice Punch
-Wide Guard
-Knock Off

Unlike my last Conkeldurr, this one focuses on support as well as attack, the only thing that has changed is the dropped Assault Vest which could not be used in tandem with Wide Guard.
And Wide Guard was added!

Drain Punch is mandatory STAB, it allows Conk to sponge attacks, get HP back and live to see another turn.

Wide Guard, this supports my team, it protects my team from Earthquake/Precipice Blades/Origin Pulse/Dazzling GleamHyper Voice AND Rockslide, as well as protecting Conk from Groudon's own Earthquake and Lava Plume when needed

Ice Punch, very useful, it OHKO Landorus T even after Intimidate, it also hits Salamence and it's Mega counterpart very hard, it just needs to be careful of Mega Mence's Aerilate Return/Double Edge, that is Conkeldurr's kryptonite. Also is good for Mega Rayquaza (on the switch, Dragon Ascent will wreck me no question)


Knock Off is an excellent move to hit Ghosts or get rid of pesky items, not much to say about it other than that.




#4: Landorus Therian @ Choice Scarf
Intimidate
Adamant
EVs: 252 Attack/ 252 Speed/ 4 HP

-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Earthquake
-Rockslide

*sigh* I really dislike using this Pokemon that is so overused it's borderlines on cliche
But it get results and frankly that is what I needs
Standard stuff so let's get into it shall we?
Choice Scarf ensures I get speed and 97% of the time I go first

U-Turn is for scouting, chip damage, retreating and pivoting.

Earthquake is the STAB of choice, of course I need to be careful using it so I mainly use it if Heatran or Groudon is on the field, although I can always use protect on them if I need to

Rockslide, flinch everting mun, this decimates opposing Charizard Y and Talonflame and trust me the flinches are the cherry on the cake.

Superpower is for opposing Kangaskhan, Bisharp and or course Tyranitar.


#5: Salamence Salamencite
Intimidate
Naive
EVs: 20 Attack, 236 SpA, 252 Speed

-Protect
-Draco Meteor
-Double Edge
-Hyper Voice

A Pokemon I have trouble facing before might be my only hope to defeat Mega Rayquaza!
With a higher base speed, Intimidate, devastating attack power Mega Rayquaza cannot switch into this
With the flying typing it will avoid both my and opposing Earthquakes, I had a mega slot free and the one that stuck out to me was Mega Mence


Protect, nuff said

Draco Meteor, the nuke of any Dragon type, it one shots Mega Rayquaza.

Hyper Voice- Aerilate Hyper Voice hits really hard and provides excellent spread damage, Will O Wisp and Intimidate aren't such obstacles

Double Edge, while Salamence can inflict some serious damage with Hypervoice as if, I felt I needed just one move to take advantage of that really nice Attack stat, which might work well against tanky SpD Pokemon like Kyogre



#6: Dialga @Shuca Berry
Telepathy
Modest
EVs: 244 HP, 12 Defense, 252 SpA

-Protect
-Draco Meteor
-Flash Cannon
-Earth Power

Of all legends that can deal with the likes of Xerneas or Mega Rayquaza, none shone brighter than the Steel Dragon of Time, Dialga!

But why Dialga? Aren't you scared of EQ especially since you have a Landorus AND Primal Groudon?
That is where Telepathy comes in, a niche ability that means Dialga cannot be harmed by team mates, and while you might think otherwise, not alot of people are aware that Dialga can get Telepathy and it's legal in the VGC, unless you are REALLY in tune with the Pokemon news.
The Shuca Berry also makes sure I survive an EQ from Primal Groudon or Mega Rayquaza

Draco Meteor, like Salamence but Dialga's is even more devastating

Flash Cannon, to deal with fairies and well as strong secondary STAB

Earth Power, this is to hit Primal Groudon and Heatran hard.


Well that is my team! it's kinda good right?

But I am always looking for input
 
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I had to make a hard cut though, which was Thundurus, but for the purposes of seeing if I made the right decision, here is Thundurus's moveset, what do you think?

#4: Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Prankster
Timid
EVs: 252 SpA/252 Speed/4 Defense

-Thunderbolt
-Thunderwave
-Taunt
-Hidden Power Ice

Pretty standard ho hum Thundurus set, not gonna go too deep into this one

Thunderbolt, pretty standard STAB to hit anything that doesn't resist it.

Thunderwave, Prankster status is always a must for the thunder genie

Hidden Power Ice, I suppose this is incredibly useful albeit over done, it OHKOs Mega Mence and Landorus T, except the Assault Vested variety.

Taunt, this is for Perish Trappers, Spore abusers, Rage Powderers and Trick Room setters.
Although Mental Herb is a problem.
This will also help cripple Geomancy
 
Alright, I'll be honest here, I'm not the biggest fan of your team. My first and probably largest issue is the complete lack of speed control on a team full of Pokemon that can be easily KOed in this metagame. If I'm understanding your second post correctly, you used to have a Thundurus-I over Landorus-T, and I'd make the switch back if I were you. On Groudon, I strongly suggest choosing another Fire STAB; Fire Punch and Overheat probably being the two best options. Lava Plume's spread is cool, but it's not worth having to play around your own team for. As for Dragon Claw, well, Mega-Rayquaza isn't actually a terribly large presence in the metagame and it's a threat that you're actually pretty prepared for between your Mega-Salamence and Dialga, so I'd probably run another move in this slot. What? Well, isn't that the million dollar question. Iron Head and Thunder Punch both have this problem where they hit marginally harder than Precipice Blades and so aren't really worth the moveslot (I'm aware you're running EQ, which considering your team seems fine). Thunder Wave is an interesting option that seems as if it would greatly benefit your Xerneas matchup. At the moment you don't have much to stop the Xern sweep as even Dialga and Primal Groudon can only stand up to it for so long and it'll be receiving support from it's teammates all the while.

On the topic of Groudon, your EV spread doesn't seem to accomplish much. At the moment, the majority of Groudon are running 252 Speed EVs and an Adamant Nature, so you should expect every opposing Primal Groudon to move before you. When it comes to Mega-Rayquaza you've already lost because Delta Stream activates on the turn they Mega-Evolve which will occur after your Primal Reversion making it a moot point. Concerning Primal Kyogre, there's a toss up. Some are running quite a bit of speed, while others are running zero IVs and decreasing natures. Assuming you add Thundurus back to the team, I'd suggest you do the same and make Groudon's speed IV zero so that you at least speed tie with opposing Primal Kyogre in the weather war which increases your chances of winning. As for living attacks from opposing Primal Groudon, you can't count on that either. You still have a decent chance to get OHKOed by Modest Earth Power Primal Groudon, which is relatively common. This can be prevented by running 252 HP EVs and 156 Special Defense EVs, although that only leaves you 100 EVs for attack. Having used the set myself I can say that the power drop is noticeable, though I haven't decided which set I prefer yet. Just putting this here to give you information.

I do not believe that Heatran is viable in this meta. Primal Groudon beats it. Primal Kyogre beats it. Mega-Kangaskhan beats it, even with a Chople Berry. Xerneas beats it, assuming it has HP Ground which at the moment pretty much all of them do. This format just isn't Heatran friendly, and you already have a perfectly good Fire type in Primal Groudon for your team. Actually, looking at it now, putting Thundurs-I over Heatran and keeping Landorus-T seems like a pretty decent option. I'd probably go with that.
 
Serapis said:
Alright, I'll be honest here, I'm not the biggest fan of your team. My first and probably largest issue is the complete lack of speed control on a team full of Pokemon that can be easily KOed in this metagame. If I'm understanding your second post correctly, you used to have a Thundurus-I over Landorus-T, and I'd make the switch back if I were you. On Groudon, I strongly suggest choosing another Fire STAB; Fire Punch and Overheat probably being the two best options. Lava Plume's spread is cool, but it's not worth having to play around your own team for. As for Dragon Claw, well, Mega-Rayquaza isn't actually a terribly large presence in the metagame and it's a threat that you're actually pretty prepared for between your Mega-Salamence and Dialga, so I'd probably run another move in this slot. What? Well, isn't that the million dollar question. Iron Head and Thunder Punch both have this problem where they hit marginally harder than Precipice Blades and so aren't really worth the moveslot (I'm aware you're running EQ, which considering your team seems fine). Thunder Wave is an interesting option that seems as if it would greatly benefit your Xerneas matchup. At the moment you don't have much to stop the Xern sweep as even Dialga and Primal Groudon can only stand up to it for so long and it'll be receiving support from it's teammates all the while.

On the topic of Groudon, your EV spread doesn't seem to accomplish much. At the moment, the majority of Groudon are running 252 Speed EVs and an Adamant Nature, so you should expect every opposing Primal Groudon to move before you. When it comes to Mega-Rayquaza you've already lost because Delta Stream activates on the turn they Mega-Evolve which will occur after your Primal Reversion making it a moot point. Concerning Primal Kyogre, there's a toss up. Some are running quite a bit of speed, while others are running zero IVs and decreasing natures. Assuming you add Thundurus back to the team, I'd suggest you do the same and make Groudon's speed IV zero so that you at least speed tie with opposing Primal Kyogre in the weather war which increases your chances of winning. As for living attacks from opposing Primal Groudon, you can't count on that either. You still have a decent chance to get OHKOed by Modest Earth Power Primal Groudon, which is relatively common. This can be prevented by running 252 HP EVs and 156 Special Defense EVs, although that only leaves you 100 EVs for attack. Having used the set myself I can say that the power drop is noticeable, though I haven't decided which set I prefer yet. Just putting this here to give you information.

I do not believe that Heatran is viable in this meta. Primal Groudon beats it. Primal Kyogre beats it. Mega-Kangaskhan beats it, even with a Chople Berry. Xerneas beats it, assuming it has HP Ground which at the moment pretty much all of them do. This format just isn't Heatran friendly, and you already have a perfectly good Fire type in Primal Groudon for your team. Actually, looking at it now, putting Thundurs-I over Heatran and keeping Landorus-T seems like a pretty decent option. I'd probably go with that.
Click to expand...

First of all I would like to thank you for your brilliant in depths diagnosis of my team, i'll try to cover points as much as I can


For Thundurus, I used to have both him and Landorus but I had a case of 6 slot syndrome when I added Dialga and Salamence.
Looking back on it I think I made the wrong cut, it was between him and Heatran but I see with the abundance of new threats like Primal Groudon, Kyogre, Xerneas, Rayquaza and even unlikely but still possible presence of Ho-Oh and Palkia I believe now Thundurus is more useful.


As for Groudon, I think i'll take your suggestion and drop Lava Plume for maybe Fire Punch, drop Dragon Claw for Thunder Punch (So I at least have a way to deal with flying types)
 
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Going with Serapis 's suggestion, I think I will switch Earthquake to Precipice Blade, Lava Plume to Fire Punch and Dragon Claw to Thunder Punch
 
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