SS OU Just Your Average Ttar-Moltres Sand

adamantazu

adamantazu

Hello! :D First RMT here. Content: pretty garbage player, usually peak at ~1570 with a 60% GXE lol

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Suicide lead. I also have rocks on Ttar so sometimes I just use Swords Dance + Explosion on things like other Lando-t. I used to have Knock Off but replaced it with Swords Dance so my Explosion can guarantee more OHKOs. They always expect me to set up rocks immediately so usually I get 2 turns to SD, live on sash, and then use boom. Earthquake is there, ofc because who doesn't run EQ. Pretty self-explanatory set imo

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Sand setter. Smooth Rock, obviously, to get 8 turns of rough, coarse, and irritating sand. Crunch is Ttar's most reliable STAB and hits Slowbro pretty hard. Rock Blast over Stone Edge for the rock STAB b/c accuracy. Earthquake hits Mage and is just great reliable coverage overall. Since Rock type Sp.Def is x1.5 in Sand, Ttar can come into basically every neutral special attack, and many super effective ones too.

Garchomp @ Bright Powder
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Use sub until they miss, except they never do Sand Veil + Bright Power turns a 100% accurate move into a 67.5% accurate move. Then Swords Dance. EQ as reliable STAB, Stone Edge to hit bulkier flying types. Unfortunately, Chomp is the fastest mon I have outside of Sand rn so that's one thing I hope to work on.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Air Slash

Moltres is my blanket counter to physical attackers that would otherwise give me huge problems, like Buzzwole. (usually, Buzzes don't carry Rock Slide). The nasty 30% burn chance on contact cripples physical attackers. The reason I have Sp. Def EV's are because after a burn, 252 HP/0 Def is more than enough. Roost for healing, Flamethrower and Air Slash for STAB, and Will-O-Wisp to secure the aforementioned burn. No Defog because I have 2 rocks setters so I don't want to kill my own rocks, and Exca has Rapid Spin anyway.

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

Mage is my most reliable mon outside of Sand. Usually, I can come in and set up on a more passive mon like Tapu Fini or Slowbro. They will almost always switch out unless the opposing Fini also sets up CM, in which case you destroy them with Stored Power. It's sort of a gamble between boosting Def or Sp. Def, but if I get the switch prediction right and boost the right defense, Mage can win games on its own. Draining Kiss to recover the HP lost while setting up, and Stored Power has huge BP with enough boosts. The main issue here are steels, but I can easily muscle through with enough boosts.

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

And what would Sand be without Rush Exca? Air Balloon to switch into grounds. +2 Exca OHKO's a lot of mons in the tier with a neutral EQ. Notably, though, it misses out on Ferro.
+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 273-322 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rapid Spin for hazard control, and can pick off weakened targets while boosting speed outside of Sand. Bulky flying types are the biggest issue here - Corv, Zappy, Moltres. Should I give up Iron Head for Rock Slide?
 
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adamantazu said:
Hello! :D First RMT here. Content: pretty garbage player, usually peak at ~1570 with a 60% GXE lol

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Suicide lead. I also have rocks on Ttar so sometimes I just use Swords Dance + Explosion on things like other Lando-t. I used to have Knock Off but replaced it with Swords Dance so my Explosion can guarantee more OHKOs. They always expect me to set up rocks immediately so usually I get 2 turns to SD, live on sash, and then use boom. Earthquake is there, ofc because who doesn't run EQ. Pretty self-explanatory set imo

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Sand setter. Smooth Rock, obviously, to get 8 turns of rough, coarse, and irritating sand. Crunch is Ttar's most reliable STAB and hits Slowbro pretty hard. Rock Blast over Stone Edge for the rock STAB b/c accuracy. Earthquake hits Mage and is just great reliable coverage overall. Since Rock type Sp.Def is x1.5 in Sand, Ttar can come into basically every neutral special attack, and many super effective ones too.

Garchomp @ Bright Powder
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Use sub until they miss, except they never do Sand Veil + Bright Power turns a 100% accurate move into a 67.5% accurate move. Then Swords Dance. EQ as reliable STAB, Stone Edge to hit bulkier flying types. Unfortunately, Chomp is the fastest mon I have outside of Sand rn so that's one thing I hope to work on.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Flamethrower
- Will-O-Wisp
- Air Slash

Moltres is my blanket counter to physical attackers that would otherwise give me huge problems, like Buzzwole. (usually, Buzzes don't carry Rock Slide). The nasty 30% burn chance on contact cripples physical attackers. The reason I have Sp. Def EV's are because after a burn, 252 HP/0 Def is more than enough. Roost for healing, Flamethrower and Air Slash for STAB, and Will-O-Wisp to secure the aforementioned burn. No Defog because I have 2 rocks setters so I don't want to kill my own rocks, and Exca has Rapid Spin anyway.

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

Mage is my most reliable mon outside of Sand. Usually, I can come in and set up on a more passive mon like Tapu Fini or Slowbro. They will almost always switch out unless the opposing Fini also sets up CM, in which case you destroy them with Stored Power. It's sort of a gamble between boosting Def or Sp. Def, but if I get the switch prediction right and boost the right defense, Mage can win games on its own. Draining Kiss to recover the HP lost while setting up, and Stored Power has huge BP with enough boosts. The main issue here are steels, but I can easily muscle through with enough boosts.

Excadrill @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Iron Head

And alas, what would Sand be without Rush Exca? Air Balloon to switch into grounds. +2 Exca OHKO's a lot of mons in the tier with a neutral EQ. Notably, though, it misses out on Ferro.
+2 252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Ferrothorn: 273-322 (77.5 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Rapid Spin for hazard control, and can pick off weakened targets while boosting speed outside of Sand. Bulky flying types are the biggest issue here - Corv, Zappy, Moltres. Should I give up Iron Head for Rock Slide?
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Hey nice team!
  • Since this is more of a Sand Balance team, Suicide Lead Lando-T mostly means you're playing 5v6. I'd consider switching this to the standard Defensive Lando-T, which would help against things like opposing Grounds, Cinderace, and opposing Electrics. Alternatively, you could even consider Hippowdon, which would give you more turns of sand.
  • On Moltres, run the moveset of Roost - Defog - Mystical Fire - Scorching Sands. Although you don't want to remove your own rocks, it'll often be a priority to remove spikes or tspikes of the opponent, or the opponent's rocks if Moltres has been knocked off. Mystical Fire allows you a way to punish Magearna looking to switch in, as well as Latios and other special attackers. Scorching Sands is important since Moltres is your Heatran Switch-in, you can easily threaten it.
  • Run Moltres with an EV spread of 252 HP / 84 Def / 28 Spdef / 144 Spe and Bold. Even though you may think that burns will make up for your lack of physdef investment, this is simply not the case. With your spread, a +2 Life Orb Knock Off from Kartana would easily deal upwards of 100%, which means even if they are burned it would be after you are dead. The 144 Speed EVs make sure that you can always outspeed opposing Magearna.
  • Since you are now running Defog on Moltres and have a rocker with longevity, you are now free to run Rock Slide over Rapid Spin, which lets you muscle past mons like Moltres which are a little trouble for your team (Ttar can't switch in). Also, run Life Orb over Air Balloon. You already have a ground immunity in Moltres and possibly a second one with Lando-T, so you don't need a third. Life Orb lets you OHKO Ferrothorn at +2 as well as muscle through mons like Slowbro when factoring in sand chip.
  • I understand the want to have bulk on Magearna, but you should never be outsped by opposing specially defensive Heatran. A spread of 24 HP / 252 Spa / 4 SpD / 228 Spe and Modest allows you to outspeed opposing Heatran, which means they can't get a sneaky minimum of 90.6% damage on you before you are able to fight back.
 
musiquepkmn said:
  • Since this is more of a Sand Balance team, Suicide Lead Lando-T mostly means you're playing 5v6. I'd consider switching this to the standard Defensive Lando-T, which would help against things like opposing Grounds, Cinderace, and opposing Electrics. Alternatively, you could even consider Hippowdon, which would give you more turns of sand.
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Yeah, that makes more sense. In most cases, Suicide Lando-t made it a 5v5, but I can see how keeping a ground immunity alive would be very useful now that I'm running Lorb on Exca.

musiquepkmn said:
  • On Moltres, run the moveset of Roost - Defog - Mystical Fire - Scorching Sands. Although you don't want to remove your own rocks, it'll often be a priority to remove spikes or tspikes of the opponent, or the opponent's rocks if Moltres has been knocked off. Mystical Fire allows you a way to punish Magearna looking to switch in, as well as Latios and other special attackers. Scorching Sands is important since Moltres is your Heatran Switch-in, you can easily threaten it.
Click to expand...

Just one question: can Chomp actually be my Heatran switch in? Because I really would like to keep Will-O-Wisp on there. I know I already have Flame Body, but that's obviously not a guaranteed burn, and not all physical moves are contact.

Thank you so much for all the suggestions, this has been very helpful! :D
 
this team actually has a terrifying lack of longevity, you have 4 mons with literally 0 ways to regain health, magearna can but it's unreliable, and if zapdos ever gets knocked it's donezo, and with being tasked to counter rilla and kartana there is a very good chance it will get knocked. It just looks like if the enemy can stall you out for just a bit the team just disintegrates. Dunno this structure looks like it should be hyper offense if it's gonna be so frail.

you might also wanna consider uturn on moltres since the team is very offensive, and getting in the right threat is very nice, and you can't really afford to wait for burn to do damage with how frail the team is.

skarmory just stops you dead in your tracks, since with whirlwind it can wall exca, mage AND chomp, and while moltres beats it it can waste precious sand turns to switch into it, and you ain't exactly moving the game state forward which seems necessary to constantly do with this team. honestly, there might be a point to fitting zolt somewhere in here, as it just has a great time removing a lot of things that annoy sand teams such as metal birds and ferro without being as passive as moltres, and should always be considered on offensive sand teams
 
glava222 said:
skarmory just stops you dead in your tracks, since with whirlwind it can wall exca, mage AND chomp, and while moltres beats it it can waste precious sand turns to switch into it, and you ain't exactly moving the game state forward which seems necessary to constantly do with this team. honestly, there might be a point to fitting zolt somewhere in here, as it just has a great time removing a lot of things that annoy sand teams such as metal birds and ferro without being as passive as moltres, and should always be considered on offensive sand teams
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Thanks for the suggestion. Who do you consider swapping out for Zolt
 
hmm depends; either moltres if you want to go for full balls out HO, or exca if you want to keep moltres as a pivot, as exca just doesn't have that "I will 6-0 if you disrespect me or have the wrong team comp" factor that mag and chomp have
 
So for my team, Zolt fills a better SRush role than Exca?
Ok, then I'll take out Exca. It feels kinda weird to have a sand team without the poster boy of sand, but whatever works best, works best.
 
adamantazu said:
So for my team, Zolt fills a better SRush role than Exca?
Ok, then I'll take out Exca. It feels kinda weird to have a sand team without the poster boy of sand, but whatever works best, works best.
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Excadrill was the poster boy of sand until Corviknight started being good, then its kinda meh. Especially Rillaboom too really hurts its viability, since if you're not running High Horsepower (which you should consider), Excadrill is rendered useless, even if the opposing Rillaboom is only at 5% hp.
 
musiquepkmn said:
Excadrill was the poster boy of sand until Corviknight started being good, then its kinda meh. Especially Rillaboom too really hurts its viability, since if you're not running High Horsepower (which you should consider), Excadrill is rendered useless, even if the opposing Rillaboom is only at 5% hp.
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From what I've experienced, Band/Lorb Glide OHKOs me from full. Yeah I'm getting Zolt.

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Blast

This look good?
 
If you’re going full HO with this team, you could always consider running Scarf Lando over Suicide lead or Defensive. That solves the issue you brought up about Chomp being your fastest outside of sand and you already have Moltres to switch into physical attackers. If you don’t want to go HO, then switching out one of sweepers for a defensive mon like Bro or Pex might be the way to go.
Other than that, definitely go for Mystical Fire over Flamethrower on Moltres. Using Chomp as your Heatran switch in could work since Magma Storm will hardly ever hit in sand, but remember that Chomp has no recovery and any hit it takes reduces its ability to sweep. What mons are you finding you need WoW for anyway?
This team is also kinda weak to rain, you don’t really have a switch in to Azumarill or Barraskewda. Not necessarily an issue if you can keep sand up, but just something to think about.
 
Contrary Servine said:
If you’re going full HO with this team, you could always consider running Scarf Lando over Suicide lead or Defensive. That solves the issue you brought up about Chomp being your fastest outside of sand and you already have Moltres to switch into physical attackers. If you don’t want to go HO, then switching out one of sweepers for a defensive mon like Bro or Pex might be the way to go.
Other than that, definitely go for Mystical Fire over Flamethrower on Moltres. Using Chomp as your Heatran switch in could work since Magma Storm will hardly ever hit in sand, but remember that Chomp has no recovery and any hit it takes reduces its ability to sweep. What mons are you finding you need WoW for anyway?
This team is also kinda weak to rain, you don’t really have a switch in to Azumarill or Barraskewda. Not necessarily an issue if you can keep sand up, but just something to think about.
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Does Scarf Lando still setup Rocks? Ofc I would have to switch, but it's not really easy to switch into other members of a HO team

Contrary Servine said:
Other than that, definitely go for Mystical Fire over Flamethrower on Moltres. Using Chomp as your Heatran switch in could work since Magma Storm will hardly ever hit in sand, but remember that Chomp has no recovery and any hit it takes reduces its ability to sweep. What mons are you finding you need WoW for anyway?
Click to expand...

I'm dumb what's WoW
 
Contrary Servine said:
This team is also kinda weak to rain, you don’t really have a switch in to Azumarill or Barraskewda. Not necessarily an issue if you can keep sand up, but just something to think about.
Click to expand...

Thoughts on Ferro? Although, what does Ferro really get out of sand other than chip immunity?
 
Ferrothorn is an idea but I don't know if you really appreciate spike support, since most of the things that wall Excadrill, Dracozolt, and Garchomp are birds, other than Hippowdon.

WoW stands for Will o Wisp
 
Hello buddy! It is a nice conceptualized team, and since I'm a big fan of sand, i will try to give you some advices in order to improve it. I'm going to suggest you some mons that can be useful, but at the end, it is up to you and how you feel confident playing.

  • Usually, sand archetype tends to be more balanced because it has great weaknesses to Ground-type and Water-type attacks, meaning that you have to cover it through defensive mons. For this reason, many players like to use Skarmory, Corviknight or defensive Landorus-T as their Ground-type check. All of them has interesting perks on their use. For example, Skarmory walls almost every Ground-type in the tier, except for obscure techs like LO Fire Blast Garchomp, while also provides a solid counter to Kartana and Rillaboom, which are also threats for the archetype, and finally, it gives you Spikes, which in conjunction with Excadrill's Rapid Spin gives you an edge in long games through passive damage, as bonus, it can Toxic Landorus-T, Zapdos and Moltres to help Sand Rush sweepers, and even can function as a late game win-condition with its Iron Defense + Body Press set. Corviknight gives you U-turn + Defog, freeing Excadrill from run Rapid Spin and allowing it to use Rock Slide or Toxic. Finally, all we know what defensive Landorus-T gives, especially Stealth Rock, which is a must on every competitive team, and Toxic for mons like Mandibuzz, Zapdos, and Slowbro.
  • As Water-type resists, sand teams relies on running Toxapex, Ferrothorn or physically defensive Tangrowth. All of them gives you Knock Off, which is almost mandatory in this metagame where HDB are so annoying to deal with. In my opinion, Toxapex is the best because it provides you with a great check for Cinderace if you aren't running Hippowdon; Toxapex counters Barraskewda that lacks Psychic Fangs; and if you want, you can run mixed spreads to help dealing with Magearna, which can be threatening if your Excadrill is out. Ferrothorn helps too because of its Steel-type and Spikes, while Tangrowth also helps with Ground-types like Garchomp and provides Stun Spore or Sleep Powder support, but i feel both of them are more suited for Hippowdon sand because it checks Cinderace, which is a massive threat for both.
  • Finally, if you want to sweep with Excadrill, you need to get rid of its checks and counter, and this is done with wallbreakers, especially if those breakers can deal directly with those C&C or deal a lot of damage to them that they are unable to answer Excadrill later. Pokemon like Garchomp and Kartana are able to put pressure on many Excadrill's C&C like Skarmory, Zapdos, Corviknight, Mandibuzz, Landorus-T, Slowbro and Hippowdon, giving Excadrill more chances to win the game after those aforementioned pokemon are weakened enough or outright KOed. Nasty Plot Tornadus-T is amazing because it can take out Grass-types, forces damage on Skarmory and Corviknight with Focus Blast or Heat Wave and even can run Weather Ball that in sand is a Rock-type move, OHKOing Zapdos at +2, and in general is a massive nuisance to rain teams because of Hurricane. Dracozolt is an interesting partner too, as it can virtually break almost anything outside of select Ground-types like Hippowdon, while it is very prediction reliant it still can force a lot of damage to the aforementioned checks, and that breaking power is amplified if you run Spikes. Excadrill tends to be the election of choice, but you can run both, as they helps each other weakening C&C.

I'm sorry that this isn't a full rate, but more like a guide of what you have to watch out when building sand.

As for a mini-rate, I think Tyranitar should be replaced for Hippowdon. It gives you the Cinderace check you need, a durable rocker and a general annoyance with Toxic or Whirwind. Tyranitar lost a great niche with the ban of Spectrier, but if you want, you can toy with CB set, which makes it a terrifying breaker.

Good luck ^^
 
Lando-San said:
  • Finally, if you want to sweep with Excadrill, you need to get rid of its checks and counter, and this is done with wallbreakers, especially if those breakers can deal directly with those C&C or deal a lot of damage to them that they are unable to answer Excadrill later. Pokemon like Garchomp and Kartana are able to put pressure on many Excadrill's C&C like Skarmory, Zapdos, Corviknight, Mandibuzz, Landorus-T, Slowbro and Hippowdon, giving Excadrill more chances to win the game after those aforementioned pokemon are weakened enough or outright KOed. Nasty Plot Tornadus-T is amazing because it can take out Grass-types, forces damage on Skarmory and Corviknight with Focus Blast or Heat Wave and even can run Weather Ball that in sand is a Rock-type move, OHKOing Zapdos at +2, and in general is a massive nuisance to rain teams because of Hurricane. Dracozolt is an interesting partner too, as it can virtually break almost anything outside of select Ground-types like Hippowdon, while it is very prediction reliant it still can force a lot of damage to the aforementioned checks, and that breaking power is amplified if you run Spikes. Excadrill tends to be the election of choice, but you can run both, as they helps each other weakening C&C.

Good luck ^^
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This is very detailed, thank you so much. I just have to apologize for any confusion - I worked out my team so that I dropped Exca and got Dracozolt for better matchups against Moltres, Zapdos, Skarm, and Corv. Here is the new team:

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 144 HP / 112 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- U-turn
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic

^ is this good enough of a Cinderace check? Because I would really like to keep Ttar if possible, for the added offensive presence as opposed to Hippo.

Tyranitar @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Rock Blast
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock

Garchomp @ Bright Powder
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Dracozolt @ Life Orb
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 88 Atk / 244 SpA / 176 Spe
Naive Nature
- Bolt Beak
- Earthquake
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

176+ speed is to outspeed +2 max speed Magearna in Sand, and unboosted max speed Mage outside Sand.
I followed the advice of another person who got really high up in ladder playing sand:
"Ground type? Use Draco. No Ground type? Use Bolt Beak." Draco does a solid 65% to most Hippo.
EQ hits Exca and Fire Blast hits Ferro.

Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 144 SpA / 28 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Mystical Fire
- Scorching Sands
- Defog

Magearna @ Leftovers
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 228 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Iron Defense
- Calm Mind
- Draining Kiss
- Stored Power

228 to outspeed most Heatran
 
With that setup, your team lacks a Water-resist. I would change Landorus-T for Pex for example.
You keep rocks in your Tyranitar. Also, you could run Toxic on it to poison opposing Landorus-T and Swampert to help Dracozolt breaking them easier.
Overall, solid team buddy :D
 
adamantazu said:
Moltres @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 144 SpA / 28 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Mystical Fire
- Scorching Sands
- Defog
Click to expand...
Looks like something got lost in translation here. The standard spread runs 144 Speed, not 144 Special Attack. This could be a typo, unless you had something else in mind.
 
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