I'm not sure where this post belongs exactly. It seems a bit too detailed for "Ask a Simple Question, get a simple answer." If this is in the wrong place, I am sorry and ask the mods to please lock/move it as they see fit. Anyways, I'm wondering if a Kingdra situated in a Rain Dance team can be a viable Electivire counter that has received a Motor Drive Boost. I'm planning on running a Kingdra on a Rain Dance team with something like 200 sp. atk / 120 Atk / Rest in def/sp. def. Electivire can't hit it Super Effective for anything, so I'm wondering if Kingdra could theoretically switch into a Electivire and handle it. Thanks for any insight, etc.
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Kingdra as a viable Electivire counter
- Thread starter Luminouzz
- Start date
120 ATK?
I have a 252 HP/252 SATK/6 Speed one. Rain Dance, Dragon Pulse, Hydro Pump (Massive damage) and Ice Beam. And I have to say it's very good. Hidden Power Ground would be awesome if you want a Electivire counter.
I have a 252 HP/252 SATK/6 Speed one. Rain Dance, Dragon Pulse, Hydro Pump (Massive damage) and Ice Beam. And I have to say it's very good. Hidden Power Ground would be awesome if you want a Electivire counter.
No. HP: Ground is like 140 power since it is SE. Surf is 142 with STAB and 213 with STAB and Rain. Hydro Pump is 180 with STAB and 270 with STAB and rain, almost double the power.
Also, Kingdra gets 2HKOed by T-Punch, Cross Chop, or EQ from CB or Life Orb Vire. That's a OHKO with a Critical Hit.
Also, Kingdra gets 2HKOed by T-Punch, Cross Chop, or EQ from CB or Life Orb Vire. That's a OHKO with a Critical Hit.
Yea but most Electivire's usually run Expert Belt anyway, or at least from what I've seen.
I've only seen Expert Belt variants. It's a 3HKO. 1- Switch in, 2- Rain Dance. He won't be able to kill you. Also, you can attach Petaya Berry and sweep like... err... whatever.
I wouldn't switch it directly in to take hits and such but if something fainted and rain was in effect I wouldn't hesitate to switch Kindgra in to try and finish it off. You'd be better off using something like Dusknoir or Cresselia to directly counter it. A Rain Dance team doesn't HAVE to have 6 water pokemon.
cresselia, tangrowth, and rhyperior are much better counters IMO
cresselia eats every attack
tangrowth laughs at ice punch
Rhyperior only needs to worry about cross chop critical hitting
cresselia eats every attack
tangrowth laughs at ice punch
Rhyperior only needs to worry about cross chop critical hitting
As if the cresselia won't be moonlighting lol.
Some counters that I have used: donphan, swampert, bronzong, dusknnoir, hippowdon, and cresselia.
Some good counters if you can predict well: dugtrio, other vires, garchomp, salamence, flygon, and to some very limited extent, a scarftran
Electivire gets faster, but it doesn't get any more powerful than without a Motor Drive boost. Pretty much anything Electivire can't SE is already a good "counter" to it, so Kingdra is good enough for that purpose. ;/ Kingdra surely can also be EVed defensive enough to take a better hit if it needed.
And CB Electivire, lol. Since this has half-turned into the same "which item for Electivire" chat we had on IRC last night, I'm a staunch Life Orb supporter but I see the merits of Expert Belt too. Enough things "wall" Electivire that it really needs the extra power to get things done, though.
And CB Electivire, lol. Since this has half-turned into the same "which item for Electivire" chat we had on IRC last night, I'm a staunch Life Orb supporter but I see the merits of Expert Belt too. Enough things "wall" Electivire that it really needs the extra power to get things done, though.
Thanks for the replies! I'm running Jirachi/Suicune/Kingdra/Zapdos/Blissey/ (Venusaur/Bronzong/Etc?)
So, the general opinion seems to be that Kingdra is a decent Electivire counter. I saw some people mention (Jebroni) Donphan as counters (you also mentioned Mence). I know Donphan is listed as a counter under the analysis, but wouldn't it be 2HKO'ed by a Expert belt vire? I also don't really get how Mence can be a counter once electivire gets a boost as it outspeeds easily and OHKO's with Ice Punch.
"Bulky grasses" were listed under the Electivire counter list, but I'm pretty sure a neutral nature Venusaur with max HP/max def gets 2HKO'ed by Electivire with expert belt? Again, not sure on this. I'll probably end up running Bronzong as my counter, though I'd prefer to be able to run Venusaur or something else.
Any more advice would be greatly appreciated.
So, the general opinion seems to be that Kingdra is a decent Electivire counter. I saw some people mention (Jebroni) Donphan as counters (you also mentioned Mence). I know Donphan is listed as a counter under the analysis, but wouldn't it be 2HKO'ed by a Expert belt vire? I also don't really get how Mence can be a counter once electivire gets a boost as it outspeeds easily and OHKO's with Ice Punch.
"Bulky grasses" were listed under the Electivire counter list, but I'm pretty sure a neutral nature Venusaur with max HP/max def gets 2HKO'ed by Electivire with expert belt? Again, not sure on this. I'll probably end up running Bronzong as my counter, though I'd prefer to be able to run Venusaur or something else.
Any more advice would be greatly appreciated.
It's not a matter of countering it with faster pokemon, it's a matter of plain walling it with something it can't hit for 2x. Sure, Salamence may beat it without a Motor Drive boost but lose when it has one. Garchomp too, and so on. Dusknoir doesn't give a crap how fast Electivire is. Neither does Cresselia. Electivire can't hit their weaknesses. It's useless against them no matter how many Motor Drives it gets, in stark contrast to something like Metagross getting an Attack boost or Heatran absorbing a WoW who can suddenly hurt things a lot more.
Electivire's power is its versatility; when the opponent has no weaknesses to exploit, Electivire loses. It also loses to flat-out physical walls like Rhyperior or Hippowdon regardless of weakness. Kingdra fits that description. So does Ludicolo. And Swampert. Relicanth is probably even physically tankish enough to blow it away with Head Smash and it's weak to Electric! And, of course, there's a slew of non-Water pokémon that a Rain Dance team can certainly use.
Electivire's power is its versatility; when the opponent has no weaknesses to exploit, Electivire loses. It also loses to flat-out physical walls like Rhyperior or Hippowdon regardless of weakness. Kingdra fits that description. So does Ludicolo. And Swampert. Relicanth is probably even physically tankish enough to blow it away with Head Smash and it's weak to Electric! And, of course, there's a slew of non-Water pokémon that a Rain Dance team can certainly use.
Donphan gets 3HKO'd by Life Orb Electivire, and Electivire shouldn't be staying in against Donphan.
Venusaur doesn't work as an Electivire counter, unfortunately. Bold Venusaur has almost no chance of living through 2 Ice Punches from Expert Belt, but it can Sleep Powder the Electivire and Leech Seed whoever comes in (or Electivire if it doesn't switch out), but it's dead if Sleep Powder misses. As for other bulky grasses, Tangrowth is 3HKO'd by Life Orb Ice Punch but 4HKO'd by Expert Belt.
I dont think it's effective. It takes neutral from all of all of Electivire's attacks,
and i dont know if 95 defense is enough to weather the blows from Electivire's attacks, most notably his STAB ones, which should be doing more damage.
and i dont know if 95 defense is enough to weather the blows from Electivire's attacks, most notably his STAB ones, which should be doing more damage.