Kingdra Discussion

AccidentalGreed

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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Well, now that Ferrothorn isn't around to plague our favorite Dragon-type anymore, I saw it relevant to make a thread about Kingdra.

In 4th generation UU, Dragon-type Pokemon were a rare sight in the metagame, few teams resorting to impractical choices such as Shelgon and Dragonair. As everybody is familiar with Kyurem, stronger, more efficient Dragon-type Pokemon will definitely take 5th generation to an early storm. Kingdra is no exception.

One of Kingdra’s most notable traits is its unique Water- / Dragon-typing, which conveniently grants it only one weakness and a neutrality to Ice- and Electric-type attacks. Additionally, when taken into account that the Water- and Dragon-type moves have nearly unresisted coverage with each other, Kingdra does have the power to break through teams with its dual STAB attacks.

That’s not where the fun ends; to fix up its seemingly average Speed, Kingdra has access to two gamechanging options: Dragon Dance and Rain Dance. Whereas Dragon Dance can be easily executed in various ways for an impending sweep, Rain Dance, paired with Kingdra’s Swift Swim ability, has the potential to destroy many teams immediately, especially weather-oriented ones. Despite competition for a moveslot with other Dragon-type Pokémon, this unique seahorse should never be underestimated, as it can turn the tide on a seemingly bad-looking game in an instant.
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Sets:

Name: Mixed Rain Dance
Move 1: Rain Dance
Move 2: Waterfall
Move 3: Hydro Pump / Surf
Move 4: Draco Meteor
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Mild
Item: Life Orb
Evs: 80 Atk / 252 SpA / 176 Spe

One of Kingdra's best, most dangerous sets in UU. This version of Kingdra also puts many weather-based teams in danger. This Kingdra is also efficiently capable of fitting onto any balanced or offensive team, taking away Sandstorm and Sunlight while being such a hassle in Rain. After Rain Dance, Kingdra will outspeed everything after scarved base 100 Pokemon, making this incredible hard to counter. With only a weakness in the Dragon-type, Rain Dance is easily set up. On another note, Hydro Pump is easily one of the most powerful attacks in the game, OHKOing bulky Metagross and Zapdos amongst other things.

Name: Special Rain Dance
Move 1: Rain Dance
Move 2: Dragon Pulse
Move 3: Hydro Pump
Move 4: Draco Meteor
Ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Modest
Evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

My personal favorite Kingdra set. Though similar to Mixed Rain Dance, this also has the potential of putting all teams in danger. After Rain Dance, only Scarved Pokemon above the Base 110 range can outrun Kingdra. Kingdra doesn't even have to worry about Attack, replacing Waterfall with a very consistent, powerful Dragon Pulse. Though nitpicky, the increased defenses may actually help Kingdra take a little more hits, too, such as V-Create. Bulkier threats are promptly destroyed with Draco Meteor or Hydro Pump.

Name: ChestoRest Dragon Dance
Move 1: Dragon Dance
Move 2: Waterfall
Move 3: Outrage
Move 4: Rest
ability: Swift Swim
Nature: Adamant
Item: Chesto Berry / Lum Berry
Evs: 144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SpD / 164 Spe

Name: Substitute + DD
Move 1: Substitute
Move 2: Dragon Dance
Move 3: Outrage
Move 4: Waterfall
ability: Swift Swim
item: Lum Berry / Leftovers
Evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Reminisce of Chesto Rest, except Kingdra is made to use Dragon Dance over a situated period of time with substitutes. Lum Berry humiliates most status users such as Chansey by Dragon Dancing on the status move with Lum Berry, and Substitute on the second attempt. Otherwise, Leftovers makes Kingdra naturally robust.

Kingdra's most efficient set in OU. In UU, because it sets up in front of many things such as Chansey and other defensive Pokemon, setting up Dragon Dance is now easier than before with the absense of Ferrothorn. After a few Dragon Dances, Kingdra will absolutely destroy almost everything in sight.

...and these are just a few of the many seets that Kingdra can run. With its dual STABs and ability to turn the game with a boosting move, Kingdra can run dangerously in the UU, even if Dream World Poliwag is banned with it. Kingdra is also one of the few checks to the popular Sun teams, capable to switching into Grass- and Fire-type moves.

Counters: Some Water-absorbers. They can even absorb Draco Meteor well, easily recovering damage. Empoleon is also a pure counter to Kingdra, resisting its Dual STABs forcing Kingdra out in any way, such as Roar. Ferroseed also resists its STABs, though it's relatively uncommon as of now.

Kingdra also doesn't enjoy passive damage due to trying to set up over many turns. Other than that, there are few that can actually switch into it.

And there you have it: a good offensive force in the UU metagame. Don't discount it too much, as..."it can turn the tide on a seemingly bad-looking game in an instant."
 
Kingdra is looking strong in UU. I very much like the Chesto-rest set... however, I think an effective Kingdra in this metagame plagued by weather abusers needs Rain Dance. Using Rain Dance, +2 Kingdra can outspeed and KO even scarfed Kyurem, and the rain completely ruins Victini and all the powerful Chlorophyll abusers in the tier.

The last set (which I believe should read Special *Rain Dance) is my current favorite as well. Rain-boosted Modest Hydro Pump is incredibly powerful. All it needs are teammates to help it deal with Chansey, Milotic, Empoleon, and other specially-bulky walls.
 
Suicune is another counter to the physical sets and can come on everything but a SpecsDM. It can't do too much back but it can Roar it out to get rid of DD boosts and use up Rain turns.
 
Name: Special Dragon Dance
Move 1: Rain Dance
Move 2: Dragon Pulse
Move 3: Hydro Pump
Move 4: Draco Meteor
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???

Lum Berry is almost always inferior to Chesto Berry in the ChestoRest set in my opinion, because you can eliminate your status and heal up with a Chesto Berry. With a Lum Berry attached, the berry is immediately used after you get statused, which can make the "Rest" part of the set fail extremely hard.

Also, the 4th Gen analysis says "144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SpD / 164 Spe" instead of 144 / 148 / 40 / 176
 
Engineer Pikachu said:
???

Lum Berry is almost always inferior to Chesto Berry in the ChestoRest set in my opinion, because you can eliminate your status and heal up with a Chesto Berry. With a Lum Berry attached, the berry is immediately used after you get statused, which can make the "Rest" part of the set fail extremely hard.

Also, the 4th Gen analysis says "144 HP / 160 Atk / 40 SpD / 164 Spe" instead of 144 / 148 / 40 / 176
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With Chesto Berry, you're merely fooling a status user that "they've won" the battle by statusing the Kingdra. With Lum Berry, this just gets ruined because the opponent will attempt to status you again. Chesto, on the other hand, is activated ONLY with Rest, and after many Dragon Dances, proceed to break the opponent to pieces after one Rest. The point of the ChestoRest strategy IS to absorb status, so we might as well use the Substitute + Dragon Dance strategy with Lum Berry for this.

Also, the EV change is a bit intentional for outrunning Choice Scarf Garchomp, but I guess that doesn't matter now that it's OU, huh?

Also, name fixed.
 
What about SleepTalk Kingdra? I've seen it a couple times and it has done pretty good.
 
Kingdra is strong in UU due to Ferrothorn not being in that tier. Otherwise, it would be completely walled. Its attack is rather decent, and it can be boosted by Dragon Dance, which is amazing. Physically defensive Suicune will give Kingdra some problems, though.
 
Kira Light said:
Kingdra is strong in UU due to Ferrothorn not being in that tier. Otherwise, it would be completely walled. Its attack is rather decent, and it can be boosted by Dragon Dance, which is amazing. Physically defensive Suicune will give Kingdra some problems, though.
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Cune gets set up on by DD Kingdra, juz need to keep an eye on random ones with Roar
 
Yeah, nothing's stopping Kingdra now. Sets with Rest just set up on everything. Even bulky Water-types can't tank it anymore. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it went to BL....
 
I'm just having problems since the best way (or, most possible at least) way to deal with kingdra right now seems like to simply have spikes/SR up and phaze it, but how many times can you actually phaze kingdra? And then wish support is a nightmare.
 
The Chesto-rest dragon dance set is indeed the hardest to deal with. I've actually had some success with Bronzong, despite the resistances to gyro ball, after a few boost it wrecks Kingdra. However, this comes at the cost of Kingdra being locked into outrage prior to this, i.e. something of yours died. Status, hazards, and phazing is the best way to go.
 
Cobalion can take on the non mixed ones (ie the dragon dance ones) taunt it, and then set up with swords dance as waterfall does low damage.
 
I like Kingdra with rest and sleep talk. It can absorb status as many times as you want and also you can attack or do a move with sleep talk. Also as some of you said there are no pokemon that can counter or stop kingdra very well. With Dragon Dance and Outrage Kingdra can sweep most of the time because there aren't a lot of steel types in UU.
 
Kingdra has been indeed a good pokemon on my team. He was my specific threat eliminator (weather), with rain dance, dragon dance, waterfall, and outrage. Now with hail gone, and hippowdon banned, weather has been defeated in UU, and my kingdra will be irrelevant to my needs. Time to replace him. He served me well though.
 
WinstonShnozwick said:
Kingdra has been indeed a good pokemon on my team. He was my specific threat eliminator (weather), with rain dance, dragon dance, waterfall, and outrage. Now with hail gone, and hippowdon banned, weather has been defeated in UU, and my kingdra will be irrelevant to my needs. Time to replace him. He served me well though.
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Were there any problem pokes that gave your Kingdra trouble? I've hardly used him, so an alternate perspective would be cool.
 
Swift Swim Kingdra is fantastic in OU, so many people bring rain you can abuse it against them, you can also set up manual rain on a non-weather team in order to counter enemy weather (sun teams, sand for t-tar/landorus/terrakion etc.)
 
Dunno, but any sets of Kingdra is pretty much walled by Milotic. It can shrug off boosted Outrage and phaze.
 
Vein said:
Dunno, but any sets of Kingdra is pretty much walled by Milotic. It can shrug off boosted Outrage and phaze.
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Teams don't exist of 1 Pokemon dude. Seriously, a choiced Electric Poke like Zapdos, Rotom-A or Raikou can fix the 'problem'. Roserade is also a good option for Milotic imo.

I've been using Kingdra on any team since it got to UU. I build my team around Kingdra and Roserade, because they are both huge threats and work so well together. Really people, use Kingdra!
 
Moo said:
Yeah, nothing's stopping Kingdra now. Sets with Rest just set up on everything. Even bulky Water-types can't tank it anymore. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if it went to BL....
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Yeah, holy hyperbole Batman.

Im not meta expert but at least in my experience, Sableye cripples it provided it gets a free switch in.

Stoutland outspeeds and murks it in the sand with hazards up(Kingdra cannot OHKO anyway, so even ceteris peribus in the sand, 1 on 1 Stout will always win). Top can Intimidate it and Toxic it, giving you a free switch if/when they inevitably rest.

Etc.
 
It depends on which set of Kingdra you face: Stoutland can counter DD Kingdra but if its RD Kingdra Stoutland basically finds itself saying GG(unless you sack Hippopotas to the incoming Surf but even then its still a check only)

Sableye can't wall Rain Dance Kingdra either, LO Hydro Pump/Draco Meteor easily KOs iirc. Surf can probably KO with some hazards.

Kingdra is just that unpredictable >.>
 
It's still based on the team. Based on experience, Bronzong + Milotic > Kindra + Roserade. But again, it's based on 4 other guys...
 
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