Kingler (Analysis) [QC 0/3]

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Kingler

[OVERVIEW]
  • Bad Ass left claw
  • High Base Attack of 130
  • Access to 2 good boosting moves in Agility and Swords Dance
  • Low Speed of 75 lets down the SD set
  • Despite shallow movepool has good coverage in only two moves

[SET]
name: Boosting Sweeper
move1: Swords Dance
move2: Agility
move3: Crabhammer
move4: X-Scissor / Return
item: Life Orb
ability: Hyper Cutter
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

  • With this set Kingler can dismantle offensive and defensive teams alike
  • Against offensive teams use Agility and Swords Dance for Defensive teams
  • Crabhammer is Kingler's best STAB move and is capable of dealing good damage
  • Return provides good neutral coverage
  • X-Scissor helps Kingler break down two of the premium physical walls in UU, Slowbro and Tangrowth

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • You can choose to use only one boosting move and use Rock Slide in the Fourth Slot alongside Brick Break.
  • If using only Agility an EV Spread of 252 Atk / 12 Def / 244 Spe with an Adamant nature can be used to outrun all scarfed base 100's after an Agility
  • Body Slam could be used instead of Return for the Paralysis chance
  • Double-Edge could be used alongside Swords Dance for more power but it is incompatible with Agility
  • Kingler should set up on weak physical attackers due to his naturally high defense
  • Brick Break can be used if looking to take out Empoleon however teammates should be geared towards removing it.

[SET]
name: Choice
move1: Crabhammer
move2: Double-Edge / X-Scissor
move3: Rock Slide
move4: Superpower
item: Choice Band
ability: Hyper Cutter
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
  • Crabhammer is once again, Kingler's best STAB
  • Double-Edge is great for neutral coverage and hits very hard
  • Rock Slide hits Flying-Types like Zapdos very hard, especially with Choice Band
  • Superpower mainly is for Empoleon

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
  • Paralysis support helps the Choice Band Set because of Kingler's low speed
  • Brick Break could be used over Superpower but the power drop is just too big

[OTHER OPTIONS]
  • Life Orb 4 Attacks is a good Smash Pass recipient and Gligar gets special mention as it can pass both Agility and SD and has good synergy with Kingler
  • Support moves in Haze and Knock Off
  • Hone Claws for boosting accuracy of Crabhammer but is not worth it
  • Sub, Iron Defense, Amnesia but better off using SD or Agility

[CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
  • Kingler has troubles with Bulky Waters such as Slowbro, Suicune, and Milotic as even though he can boost up on them he can be burned with Scald. The latter two can also phaze away any boosts
  • Bulky Grass-Types like Tangrowth, Celebi, Shaymin, and Rotom-C can deal with most sets lacking X-Scissor
  • Kingdra has a 4x resistance to water and can switch win and can fire off powerful Draco Meteors
  • Empoleon is a poopnugget if not carrying Brick Break
  • Electric Types can revenge if Kingler has not set up Agility
  • Zapdos can take a Crabhammer and demolish Kingler with T-Bolt
  • Bulky Qwilfish can take hits from Kingler and haze away any boosts, repeated Double-Edges/Returns will wear it down
  • Poliwrath can take hits and phaze you out
  • Ferroseed takes minimal damage from most attacks and can T-Wave/Leech Seed/Bullet Seed yo' face
  • Fast Grass-Types can usually switch in once and scare Kingler out
 
Yeah, Sheer Force does not boost Brick Break. But that doesn't matter, as the DW section isn't necessary when it's released.

And should Brick Break be slashed?
 
SuperJOCKE said:
Yeah, Sheer Force does not boost Brick Break. But that doesn't matter, as the DW section isn't necessary when it's released.

And should Brick Break be slashed?
Click to expand...

O thanks didn't realize that derp. Anyways where do you mean Brick Break should be slashed? On the CB Set?
 
No, I mean, what does Return hit that Brick Break and Crabhammer don't? And Empoleon, nuff said.
 
Also the first set's ability should be changed to Hyper Cutter since none of the primary attacking options are boosted by Sheer Force.

...it really is a shame that Kingler can't exactly use his awesome ability :/
 
Yeah, Hyper Cutter is way better than Sheer Force. I thought you had Hyper Cutter listed before, why did you change it.
 
I am very tempted to say that you should not be slashing SD at all; kingler is too slow to sweep but has very nice attack from the getgo.

Also you shouldn't be using sheer force; the only move it gets that backs it is rock slide iirc, so just use hyper cutter.

TBH I'm not entirely sure you can use this thing. EDIT: I'm not sure it's viable.
 
Breludicolo said:
I am very tempted to say that you should not be slashing SD at all; kingler is too slow to sweep but has very nice attack from the getgo.

Also you shouldn't be using sheer force; the only move it gets that backs it is rock slide iirc, so just use hyper cutter.

TBH I'm not entirely sure you can use this thing.
Click to expand...

SD is for Kingler when he is forced against a slow team such as Stall or whatever. Sometimes, you can get both boosts anyways when the opponent makes a bad switch when you SD/Agility and they have to switch again.

Didn't realize Brick Break didn't get Sheer Force boost

Do you mean me personally? Or you just don't think it's viable in UU.
 
Definitely should get input from the QC team on this.

In my opinion, both sets should be primarily Adamant instead of Jolly (you're outlining max Speed values anyways).

And take out the Scarf in the second set and just leave it with the Choice Band.
 
X-Scissor deserves greater mention because of its ability to beat Slowbro and Tangrowth, who are probably UU's best physical walls, and who basically otherwise walk all over Kingler. In fact, I think X-Scissor should be the main secondary attack on both sets. Brick Break only deserves an AC mention in the first set. Yes Empoleon is a bitch, but beating it is nowhere near as important as getting good neutral coverage-- your team should be looking to remove it before setting up a Kingler Sweep. Kingler wants "X-Scissor / Return" as its second attack with Crab Hammer. On the CB set, I'd say X-Scissor should be slashed with Double Edge.

In OO, you should mention that a LO set with 4 attacks is possible, and especially good if your team has a shell-passer. Gligar also passes Dance + Agility well, and Kingler is a great pass target for it thanks to its water/ice resistances and Hyper Cutter.
 
I'd agree Choice Scarf Kingler does not sound very impressive.

I can't think of any Pokemon Kingler really needs Jolly to beat that it really needs to/wants to beat. For the first set, as long as it can outrun scarf 100s, I think it's good to go.

Let's move onto checks/counters which looks a bit bare right now. Qwilfish. You heard me, Qwilfish. Resistances to Water, Fighting and Bug are a nuisance, and Rock Slide/Return are not busting through its defensive sets either. Hyper Cutter is nice though, so it is something Kingler can over come with Return-- Qwilfish can't hold out against it forever. Obviously Qwilfish is nowhere near as important as Slowbro to consider in choosing coverage moves though.

Obviously Empoleon needs to be mentioned when not using Brick Break.

Poliwrath can switch into almost any set and spam circle throw, especially if you are using Water/Bug coverage. Kingdra can switch in once or twice and blast you with Draco Meteor. Suicune/Milotic can kind of handle you and phaze you.

Grass Pokemon can still check it well even when it has X-Scissor (unless your name is Celebi and you switch directly into X-Scissor or Agility...). Celebi, Venusaur and Rotom-C are the main ones besides Tangrowth and Celebi worth considering. Venusaur at least lacks an X-Scissor weakness, and the others won't be outright KO'd by an X-Scissor while they outspeed and OHKO Kingler. Ferroseed can basically switch into any Kingler set and Thunder Wave it and then start setting up Spikes. It can't hurt Kingler really though, so it works best against the choice set (rather than the one that can get itself up to +6 Attack and start bashing faces in).

Zapdos can take a Crab Hammer and destroy Kingler with Thunderbolt. Other electric types not named Rotom-C probably don't want to switch in directly, but are checks.
 
Chou Toshio said:
I'd agree Choice Scarf Kingler does not sound very impressive.

I can't think of any Pokemon Kingler really needs Jolly to beat that it really needs to/wants to beat. For the first set, as long as it can outrun scarf 100s, I think it's good to go.

Let's move onto checks/counters which looks a bit bare right now. Qwilfish. You heard me, Qwilfish. Resistances to Water, Fighting and Bug are a nuisance, and Rock Slide/Return are not busting through its defensive sets either. Hyper Cutter is nice though, so it is something Kingler can over come with Return-- Qwilfish can't hold out against it forever. Obviously Qwilfish is nowhere near as important as Slowbro to consider in choosing coverage moves though.

Obviously Empoleon needs to be mentioned when not using Brick Break.

Poliwrath can switch into almost any set and spam circle throw, especially if you are using Water/Bug coverage. Kingdra can switch in once or twice and blast you with Draco Meteor. Suicune/Milotic can kind of handle you and phaze you.

Grass Pokemon can still check it well even when it has X-Scissor (unless your name is Celebi and you switch directly into X-Scissor or Agility...). Celebi, Venusaur and Rotom-C are the main ones besides Tangrowth and Celebi worth considering. Venusaur at least lacks an X-Scissor weakness, and the others won't be outright KO'd by an X-Scissor while they outspeed and OHKO Kingler. Ferroseed can basically switch into any Kingler set and Thunder Wave it and then start setting up Spikes. It can't hurt Kingler really though, so it works best against the choice set (rather than the one that can get itself up to +6 Attack and start bashing faces in).

Zapdos can take a Crab Hammer and destroy Kingler with Thunderbolt. Other electric types not named Rotom-C probably don't want to switch in directly, but are checks.
Click to expand...

Ya I noticed all of those when I was battling but kept forgetting what they actually were when I went to update XD. Anyways, minor nitpick but Venusaur is UU :3 Thanks for this broseidon
 
assuming ferroseed is running bullet seed (best option imo and should always be running it), ferroseed can cleanly 2hko with all 5 hits, and on average will always 3hko.
3 hits:Ferroseed (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bullet Seed vs Kingler@Choice Band (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 33.3 ~ 40.4% (84 ~ 102 HP)
4 hits:Ferroseed (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bullet Seed vs Kingler@Choice Band (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 43.6 ~ 52.3% (110 ~ 132 HP)
5 hits:Ferroseed (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bullet Seed vs Kingler@Choice Band (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 54.7 ~ 65% (138 ~ 164 HP)

at 2 hits he wont be doing much anyway.
 
premboy95 said:
assuming ferroseed is running bullet seed (best option imo and should always be running it), ferroseed can cleanly 2hko with all 5 hits, and on average will always 3hko.
3 hits:Ferroseed (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bullet Seed vs Kingler@Choice Band (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 33.3 ~ 40.4% (84 ~ 102 HP)
4 hits:Ferroseed (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bullet Seed vs Kingler@Choice Band (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 43.6 ~ 52.3% (110 ~ 132 HP)
5 hits:Ferroseed (0 EVs, Neutral Nature) Bullet Seed vs Kingler@Choice Band (4/0 EVs, Neutral Nature): 54.7 ~ 65% (138 ~ 164 HP)

at 2 hits he wont be doing much anyway.
Click to expand...

Thanks for for that I haven't seen any Ferroseed so I didn't really know what it did. The only set I knew of was the one I used in RU which had no attacks. Small update with Bullet Seed Yo' Face added
 
I thought long and hard about Kingler and i'm afraid I just can't accept it in UU. Its already "sub par" Pokemon, but to add insult to injury Crawdaunt is better in most cases. Kingler is outright worse than Crawdaunt, who has Adaptability, Dragon Dance and Dual STAB. Its high physical bulk and slightly more speed aren't enough to seperate it from Crawdaunt. Sorry.

QC REJECTED (1/3)
 
Any QC member can reject an analysis; as long as we don't have great dispute amongst ourselves (which I doubt in regards to this case), one reject is enough.
 
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