Lapras (QC: 0/3)

ManOfMany

ManOfMany

is a Tiering Contributor
lapras_used_ice_beam_by_pencilsymbiosis-d5abxp2.gif



[OVERVIEW]

-Has very high overall bulk for PU
-Tough to switch into without a dedicated special wall
-Has perfect neutral coverage and amazing supereffective coverage with Water STAB + Freeze Dry
-Weak to common electric and grass types, as well as common fighting-type coverage on many pokemon, so not difficult to revenge-kill
-Slow, so can be threatened out easily
-It faces major competition as a water type from the likes of Poliwrath, Pelipper, and Simipour who are either faster or have much more useful defensive typings, and Regice also overshadows it as an Ice-type special tank.

[SET]
name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Freeze Dry
move 4: Surf / Heal Bell / Toxic
Ability: Water Absorb
item: Choice Specs / Leftovers
Nature: Modest
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
============
-Hydro Pump is Lapras's strongest STAB
-Ice Beam is another reliable STAB move that takes care of grass types.
-Freeze Dry rounds out the coverage, threatening water-types.
-Surf is a reliable STAB move that hits ground and rock pokemon, as well as fire types.
-Heal Bell is used to remove status from team members and Lapras itself
-Toxic is for the rare special walls who do not have heal bell, such as Hypno

Set Details
===========
-252 SpA and Modest Nature lets Lapras hit as hard as possible.
-136 speed is for outspeeding Golem, Armaldo, and Golem who can hit Lapras hard with Rock-Type moves.
-The rest of the EVs are dumped in HP to improve bulk.
-Icicle Plate could be used to bluff Choice items.

Usage Tips
==========
-Lapras can switch in on many water type pokemon such as Pelipper and Floatzel, but be careful of Floatzel's HP electric when stealth rock is one the field.
-Torkoal and Defensive Probopass variants are also good switch-ins.
-Toxic is to be used on pokemon without status recovery, like Hypno, and Heal Bell can be used when you predict the opponent to switch out.
-Avoid pokemon that usually carry fighting type coverage, such as Kingler.
-Keep Lapras at full health if it is needed to check important targets, for example, Ninetales (energy ball does not 2HKO) or Kadabra.

Team Options
==========
-Fighting types such as Machoke can switch in on Lickilicky.
-Piloswine and Torterra make good switch-ins to electric and rock types that threaten Lapras, also providing stealth rock support.
-Hazard Removers such as Armaldo, Torkoal, and Togetic make decent partners as Lapras hates Stealth Rocks.
-Wish Passers such as Lickilicky can restore Lapras' health.
-Fighting Resists such as Togetic and Arbok can switch on fighting-moves aimed at Lapras.
-Lapras provides heal bell support to walls who hate toxic, such as Gourgeist, or pokemon who use rest as a recovery option, such as Dusclops.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
==========
-Running 252 HP is an option as Lapras scares out Armaldo and Marowak anyway.
-Substitute + Dragon Dance allows Lapras to set up on walls such as Lickilicky but isn't too strong.
-A mixed dragon dance set with a life orb and ice beam is difficult to wall but struggles to set up.
-A curse set with rest, sleep talk, and shell armor but walled by Poliwrath.
-Assault Vest lets Lapras improve its special bulk to insane levels, but it is worn down easily by Stealth Rock and passive damage.
-Ice Shard is a solid move for any set because it revenge-kills Jumpluff.
-Perish Song is an option to threaten bulky sweepers like Munchlax, and can be used in conjunction with block to eliminate specific threats.
-Using rain dance and rest with the ability hydration gives Lapras a form of recovery, althuogh unreliable.

Checks and Counters
============
***Specially Defensive Pokemon***- Lickilicky and Hypno walls any hit Lapras can send at it and wears it down with Body Slam and Psychic respectively. Regice can tank at least two hits and hit Lapras with thunderbolt.

***Pokemon with Super-Effective Coverage***- Grass Knot, Low Kick, and Focus Blast hit Lapras very hard and are common coverage moves on most offensive pokemon. Examples of pokemon who carry these moves include Simipour, Kingler, and Mr.Mime.

***Electric Types*** Raichu, Zebstrika, Rotom-F, and Luxray can all finish off a weakened Lapras with their STABs, with Luxray being able to OHKO Lapras at full health.

***Stealth Rock***- Stealth Rock severely reduces Lapras' ability to switch in and tank hits.
 
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Both the dragon dance sets should be removed as they are just ineffective in the metagame, when testing bad mons mag and I concluded that it is just bad as it is not only very slow for a dragon dance user, it is also very weak, and a lack of an ice STAB is really crippling, and its defensive typing leaves it crippling weaknesses to fight/electric/grass etc meaning it just finds it too hard to set up.

Lapras is a pretty outclassed poke so it is hard to judge what its best set is, but i also think offensive heal bell should be removed as it isnt too different than specs and without specs you are really weak so it isnt really abusing lapras's niche (of having amazing dual STABs) which is why specs should be the only set imo. Surf should also be the last slot as psychic doesnt really hit throh for much more damage than hydro/get a KO while surf is a more reliable hydro pump. 136 should also be the speed as although it sacrifices bulk, it crucially lets lapras outspeed base 45's (golem/armaldo/marowak).

other qc thoughts are appreciated
 
Okay, I'll remove the Dragon-Dance sets.

However, I have to agree with Galbia that specs is the worse set because 1) It is pretty obvious when a medium-hitter like Lapras is running Specs so it is easy to take advantage of and 2) There are better wallbreakers out there. Offensive Heal Bell allows Lapras to support its teammates and still be threatening to a wide variety of pokemon due to its insane coverage. It isn't weak either (If Poliwrath can run a modest leftovers set than Lapras can too)
 
What do you think of the ability shell armor? I just realized its amazing utility against Storm Throh.
252+ Atk Throh Storm Throw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lapras: 218-258 (46.9 - 55.6%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO.
Water Absorb is pretty decent though
 
Idk much about Lapras, but here is a set I tried out with some decent results:

Lapras @ Icicle Plate / Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Freeze-Dry
- Ice Shard

Lapras has solid Water/Ice coverage in PU, and having access to Freeze-Dry just adds to it coverage. Like Anty said, 136 Speed is needed to outspeed Marowak and Golem while the rest is added to HP, giving it 431 HP which is still solid even with no investment in defense while still limiting SR damage. I prefer Water Absorb over Shell Armor as the Water immunity is nice to have as Lapras has no reliable recovery, plus Shell Armor wouldn't be needed if Throh gets the boot from PU. Ice Shard may look odd on a pokemon with -nature in attack, but it does help in preserving Lapras aganist +2 Golem Sucker Punch as Ice Shard outspeeds the Sucker Punch. Just my opinion on the matter, other QC members can chime in on this.
 
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I know I'm not QC, but I'll help out where I can.

Overview
#######
  • Mention that it faces competiton from other Water- and Ice-types in the tier (Aurorus, Regice, Poliwrath, Simipour, etc.)
  • Mention that it functions mainly as an offensive tank with it's variety of coverage moves (basically make the second point in the Overview sound something like this).
  • Lapras' ability in Water Absorb lets it better handle Water-types in the tier while having the coverage to take them out.

Choice Specs
#########

Moves
===========

  • When mentioning Lapras' moves, give examples of what they hit (ex: Ice Beam hits Grass-types such as ... ).
  • Make a mention of Icicle Plate as it allows Lapras to bluff being Choice locked.

Set Details
===========

  • The set is called Choice Specs, but Lapras is holding Leftovers @_@
  • Mention why Water Absorb is Lapras's preferred ability.

Usage Tips
===========

  • Mention how entry hazards wear Lapras down, limiting the amount of times it can switch in. Mention also that it's bad typing limits Lapras in terms of switching in on strong attacks.
  • Also mention how foes can take advantage of a Choice locked Lapras (give examples).

Team Options
===========

  • Mention that Piloswine and Torterra can also provide Stealth Rock support for Lapras on top of being Immune to Electric and can also handle Rock-types for Lapras. Roselia resists Grass, Fighting, and Electric for Lapras and can lay down Spikes / Toxic Spikes while Lapras resists Ice. Give examples of what KOs Lapras gets with hazards up (Specs Hydro Pump 2HKOs standard Regice after Stealth Rock damage).
  • Arbok, Jumpluff, and Pelipper resists Fighting for Lapras (just some examples).
  • I don't know about Machoke switching in on Lickilicky. Just mention pokemon that can get rid of special walls for Lapras (wallbreakers like Chatot, LO Simipour, etc).
  • Also remove the last part. You're not running Heal Bell on the Choice Specs set.
Other Options
===========

  • Heal Bell should go here. As Anty mentioned, Heal Bell is better done by bulkier Pokemon with better typing such as Grumpig, Lickilicky, and Misdreavus so remove the first set and make the Specs set the main set.
  • For the Dragon Dance set, make a mention of Drill Run, as it can catch Electric-types.
  • At most, Lapras runs 248 HP to minimize Stealth Rock damage, but would like the speed for base 45s.

Checks & Counters
==============

  • Rename Lickilicky to "Specially Defensive Pokemon" instead. Regice can take two Specs Hydro Pumps and 2HKO with LO Focus Blast or Thunderbolt. Grumpig can make a mention of here as well.
  • Rename "Pokemon with Fighting-type Coverage" to "Faster Pokemon". The way it's written, it sounds as though Fighting is Lapras's only weakness. Just mention Pokemon that can outspeed Lapras and deal super-effective damage or severly weaken Lapras to the point where it can't function effectively.
ManOfMany
 
Both the sets pretty much do the same thing so I think they should just be merged into one
All Out Attacker
#########
name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Freeze Dry
move 4: Surf / Toxic
Ability: Water Absorb
item: Choice Specs / Leftovers
Nature: Modest
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe

qc thoughts?
ManOfMany
 
I have no problem with that set. Heal Bell in Moves then (might be worth a slash, but only as a second choice for lefties)
 
Anty said:
Both the sets pretty much do the same thing so I think they should just be merged into one
All Out Attacker
#########
name: All Out Attacker
move 1: Hydro Pump
move 2: Ice Beam
move 3: Freeze Dry
move 4: Surf / Toxic
Ability: Water Absorb
item: Choice Specs / Leftovers
Nature: Modest
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe

qc thoughts?
ManOfMany
Click to expand...

This makes sense,

although it's hard to figure out what to put in the 4th moveslot.

Specs Frost Breath beats Duosion and CM Clefairy but I don't know how relevant that is, Perish Song could do the same thing and also beat munchlax. Those seem like OO moves to me.

toxic doesn't really do much for Lapras IMO since it only troubles Hypno. Every other thing that switches on Lapras usually carries heal bell or is more troubled by powerful hydro pumps anyway.

Heal Bell allows Lapras to support its team and not be troubled by random burns/toxics from the likes of Torkoal, Pelipper, but still very situational.
 
Overview:
In general this isnt very developed. For example you say:
'Faces competition from other water and ice types such as Poliwrath and Regice.'
You need to explain what Lapras's niche is over these pokes. You also say things like 'SR weakness', but you dont exactly say why that is at all relevant
Otherwise you say: 'Extremely bulky for PU standards.' which isnt exactly true and also: 'Hits a lot of pokemon for super-effective damage' when its lapras's perfect neutral coverage which is impressive

Set:
In moves, the moves should be mentioned in the order they are in the set. Also you have to mention every move on the set, and when talking about surf its used with hydro for its accuracy + that lapras doesnt have much more relevant coverage

For set details you also need to talk about both the items and why to use one over the other and you have icicle plate mentioned fsr

UT: 'Lapras can switch in on many water type pokemon such as Pelipper and Floatzel' - I dont really agree with this as floatzel isnt going to be spamming water moves if they op has a water absorb poke and lapras hates switching to anything due to rock weakness + lack of recovery
'Torkoal and Defensive Probopass variants are also good switch-ins.' - this is quite ambiguous but i assume you mean to switch lapras into them. If so, then you arent switching in lapras in case probo goes for volt switch and also you can mention what lapras switches into in one line. Also when talking about switching in lapras you should mention that you have to be carful as lapras gets warn down a lot
'Avoid pokemon that usually carry fighting type coverage, such as Kingler.' - This doesnt add much as you are effectively saying 'dont take super effective hits'
'Predict switches carefully.' - You dont need to tell the reader that they should predict
You also have a haunter mention here

TO: This doesnt look that bad but you need to use better wording in some places, for example: 'Fighting Resists such as Jumpluff and Arbok can switch on fighting-moves aimed at Lapras.' - Jumpluff wont really be switching in on any fighting type
I dont really see what the last line really adds about team options as every pokemon hates status
You also need to mention what type of team lapras fits in on

OO: Mixed dragon dance is certainly not 'unwallable'

c&c: Mention that all the sdef walls need to be careful of toxic

For ***Pokemon with Super-Effective Coverage*** just call it **Super Effective Coverage** (all these tags should have two *'s either side of it not 3) and kingler doesnt run any of those moves mentioned at the start

I think Electric-types should just be made into **Type Advantage** and you should include grass and fighting types (not rocks as you beat them all)

ManOfMany
 
Anty said:
Overview:
In general this isnt very developed. For example you say:
'Faces competition from other water and ice types such as Poliwrath and Regice.'
You need to explain what Lapras's niche is over these pokes. You also say things like 'SR weakness', but you dont exactly say why that is at all relevant
Otherwise you say: 'Extremely bulky for PU standards.' which isnt exactly true and also: 'Hits a lot of pokemon for super-effective damage' when its lapras's perfect neutral coverage which is impressive

Set:
In moves, the moves should be mentioned in the order they are in the set. Also you have to mention every move on the set, and when talking about surf its used with hydro for its accuracy + that lapras doesnt have much more relevant coverage

For set details you also need to talk about both the items and why to use one over the other and you have icicle plate mentioned fsr

UT: 'Lapras can switch in on many water type pokemon such as Pelipper and Floatzel' - I dont really agree with this as floatzel isnt going to be spamming water moves if they op has a water absorb poke and lapras hates switching to anything due to rock weakness + lack of recovery
'Torkoal and Defensive Probopass variants are also good switch-ins.' - this is quite ambiguous but i assume you mean to switch lapras into them. If so, then you arent switching in lapras in case probo goes for volt switch and also you can mention what lapras switches into in one line. Also when talking about switching in lapras you should mention that you have to be carful as lapras gets warn down a lot
'Avoid pokemon that usually carry fighting type coverage, such as Kingler.' - This doesnt add much as you are effectively saying 'dont take super effective hits'
'Predict switches carefully.' - You dont need to tell the reader that they should predict
You also have a haunter mention here

TO: This doesnt look that bad but you need to use better wording in some places, for example: 'Fighting Resists such as Jumpluff and Arbok can switch on fighting-moves aimed at Lapras.' - Jumpluff wont really be switching in on any fighting type
I dont really see what the last line really adds about team options as every pokemon hates status
You also need to mention what type of team lapras fits in on

OO: Mixed dragon dance is certainly not 'unwallable'

c&c: Mention that all the sdef walls need to be careful of toxic

For ***Pokemon with Super-Effective Coverage*** just call it **Super Effective Coverage** (all these tags should have two *'s either side of it not 3) and kingler doesnt run any of those moves mentioned at the start

I think Electric-types should just be made into **Type Advantage** and you should include grass and fighting types (not rocks as you beat them all)

ManOfMany
Click to expand...

I'll mention perfect neutral coverage, but Lapras hits quite a lot of pokemon super-effectively in Water, Rock, Ground, Fire, Flying, and Grass which is important too.

The part about Pelipper and Floatzel is lol honestly, it's like saying that Regice can't switch into weak special attackers because Stealth Rock exists (and is somehow omnipresent). Or like saying that Poliwrath doesn't switch on Armaldo because the opponent will be double switching his Armaldo out to Zebstrika.

Jumpluff switches in on Machoke okay...idk I switch my Jumpluff in. It usually doesn't carry ice punch.

The rest of the stuff I will implement
 
ManOfMany said:
I'll mention perfect neutral coverage, but Lapras hits quite a lot of pokemon super-effectively in Water, Rock, Ground, Fire, Flying, and Grass which is important too.

The part about Pelipper and Floatzel is lol honestly, it's like saying that Regice can't switch into weak special attackers because Stealth Rock exists (and is somehow omnipresent). Or like saying that Poliwrath doesn't switch on Armaldo because the opponent will be double switching his Armaldo out to Zebstrika.

Jumpluff switches in on Machoke okay...idk I switch my Jumpluff in. It usually doesn't carry ice punch.

The rest of the stuff I will implement
Click to expand...

You can say you can switch it in but mainly say be careful, and that first point was focussed at floatzel rather than at peli which can blow you away with hp electric. Also stealth rock is dominant in PU and ice punch is fairly common on machoke so i have no idea what you are talking about when you say that
 
The overview needs to be kept in bullet point form until you get 2 QC checks which you don't have. Also for Moves, talk about them in the order of the set (you didn't even mention Heal Bell or Toxic at all).
 
You're only supposed to have two *'s on each side of Checks and Counters. It should be like **Insert Threat Here**:.
 
Overview: you need to explain why certain things are relevant like when you say 'Has very high overall bulk for PU', that is something that the reader can see by looking at the dex
Also when you say it receives competition from those pokemon, also say why you would use it over them

moves: specifically say that freeze dry is weaker than ice beam
'Toxic is for the rare special walls who do not have heal bell, such as Hypno' - reword this as there arent any special walls that should run heal bell (just several like pig/licki that can run it)

SD: '136 speed is for outspeeding Golem, Armaldo, and Golem'

UT: 'Toxic is to be used on pokemon without status recovery' - just say that it should be used vs special walls that wall lapras
'Avoid pokemon that usually carry fighting type coverage, such as Kingler.' - i dont think this is too relevant as its effectively telling the reader to not let lapras take a super effective attack (also stuff like hp fighting missy doesnt really do much to lapras)

TO: You need to say things like 'Ground-type Pokemon such as Piloswine and Torterra' instead of what you actually are saying, as otherwise it sounds like those 2 are the only pokemon that can do so and that torterra can check most electric types, which it cant
Remove togetic mentions pls
You dont need to mention specific pokemon that appreciate heal bell support as every poke does (im fairly certain i have told you this before)

c&c: please sort out the formatting
Pokemon with Super-Effective Coverage should just be called **Super Effective Coverage** and also make the examples clearer (like kingler uses non of those moves you listed)

ManOfMany
 
Reassigning due to lack of activity and honestly the quality is low not helped by the writer not implementing a lot of our suggestions
 
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