Let's talk about some of the "gimmick" moves new to D/P

Khawarith

I was looking at some of the new moves (and improved moves) for D/P and some interesting possibilities hit me:

Ambush and Taunt: Most notable on the extremely slow but Tankish Spiritomb. Base 92 Attack + Ambush STAB is nothing to laugh about, and with improved Taunt it's likely a guaranteed several hits or a switch. Seeing as how it's most likely a switch, Pursuit would be welcome.

Guard Swap was mentioned in the Alakazam thread, where it was mentioned that using it on a Tank will both scare them out and guarantee Zam lives longer.

Trouble Seed was completely overlooked, but it's actually pretty useful; it changes the foe ability to Insomnia, meaning they can't rest, but more importantly it removes their old ability. Levitators are no longer immune to Earthquake, and Electivire loses his speed boost from Lightining attacks. Unfortunately switching out removes the effects.

Punish does more damage depending how much the opponent boosts their stats. I think it was determined that it reaches 132 BP after 2 Curses.

What other new moves do you think have been overlooked?
 
Man, that Ambush/Taunt combo looks really cool.

On the subject of improved moves, while I was compiling my Pokédex I noticed some power and accuracy changes to moves. Some are obvious like 80% accuracy for Disable, 120 power for Zap Cannon and Outrage, etc. Others were more subtle, like how Yawn, which used to have 100% base accuracy, now cannot miss.

I have interesting ideas for a lot the gimmicky new moves, but many of them are only applicable to 2v2. Should I post some?
 
Other examples...

-Blizzard reaches 100% accuracy in a Hail
-Hypnosis has 70% accuracy
-Charge increases Sp.Def
-Stockpile increases both Defenses
-Leaf Blade has 90 BP now
-ETC
 
The new herb (power herb) that eliminates the first turn charge of moves like solarbeam and sky attack. Might of had some use last gen for those desperate to get rid of things like swampert but completely usless with all the good moves this gen (ie energy ball, brave bird). But there will no doubt be some noobs on wifi that will use it.
 
Footnote said:
Man, that Ambush/Taunt combo looks really cool.

On the subject of improved moves, while I was compiling my Pokédex I noticed some power and accuracy changes to moves. Some are obvious like 80% accuracy for Disable, 120 power for Zap Cannon and Outrage, etc. Others were more subtle, like how Yawn, which used to have 100% base accuracy, now cannot miss.

I have interesting ideas for a lot the gimmicky new moves, but many of them are only applicable to 2v2. Should I post some?
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By all means, please do.

Some other ones which I typed up and Explorer decided to delete:

Aqua Ring is learnable by Milotic and gives the same regen as Leftovers. Basically, a Burned Milotic loses no HP and still gets the DEF boost :) Milotic learns Recover though, which makes it obsolete, but Vaporean can certainly benefit from it.

Power herb sounds useless but at least it makes Razor Wind 1 turn. Razor wind is still Base 70, but now it has a high crit rate. Unless that crit rate is 100% I can't see it being used :/ that move's been useless since RBY.

Tailwind was overlooked, probably because not very many good Pokemon learn it (Suicine does but not much else.) Something I noticed though; Xatu gets Wish and Tailwind. Tailwind is like Reflect or Lightscreen, except it boosts speed. Imagine Wishpassing a Tailwind to Rhyperior. Articuno gets it too but that 4x Rock weakness means switching in on a Stealth Rocked field is pretty much suicide now.

Ace, learnable by the eeveelutions, grows in power as the PP drops. Against Pressure Pokemon, this means it's pretty powerful after one shot, and the 3rd shot will do massive damage against anything that switches in. Very niche, but worth mentioning.

Hurl (Now Fling) really needs to have a chart for it put up :P It could potentially be quite useful.
Speaking of item related moves, Recycle brings back a used item. It can be used with Hurl for what is basically a Dark-Hyper beam which you charge when you feel like it (with Black Steel Orb) , or it can be used to give yourself a Chesto Berry back after resting it away. Quite useful, but still 2 moveslots is a lot to give up.
 
Disable+Encore-
Although its been around since the GSC days. Not sure if you guys realized this but Disable had its accuracy raised to 80% and Encore is now 6 turns instead of 5.

It may take 2 turns to setup but if you use it on something fast than its only 1 turn. Its like being a slow sleeper except they can't sleep talk out of it. This forces a switch even more than sleep or they risk 2-4 turns of getting owned.
 
Disable+Encore
Although its been around since the GSC days. Not sure if you guys realized this but Disable had its accuracy raised to 80% and Encore is now 6 turns instead of 5.

It may take 2 turns to setup but if you use it on something fast than its only 1 turn. Its like being a slow sleeper except they can't sleep talk out of it. This forces a switch even more than sleep or they risk 2-4 turns of getting owned.
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You have now wasted two turns for no benefit, and have gotten hit twice. This will never work.
 
Surgo said:
You have now wasted two turns for no benefit, and have gotten hit twice. This will never work.
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You're very wrong.

Even on their own, Disable effectively locks them down to 3 moves and for many who may rely on only one move for coverage it can be rather punishing.

Also Encore still catches them out on the stat ups/support moves.

Most importantly both Disable and Encore hit through substitutes. Therefore neither can be blocked. You can always combine it with either Substitute or Protect to gain the initiative as well.

If you choose on having both + substitute then you only get 1 attack but a near guaranteed execution. Disable+Encore was just a afterthought since it forces them into struggling and last I checked Struggle recoil is now quite significant.

But Disable itself is now a viable move for the reason it has decent accuracy now, hits through subs and it can lockdown certain 'two move' sweepers.

I suppose I speak more for Disable than the actual combination. Outrage I know is seeming feasible and if that gets Subbed first turn than Disabled they end up struggling twice.

Either way its really simple. Substitute the first turn. If they attack, Disable than Encore. If they don't attack, Encore than Disable. If they don't switch at this point then they probably have a deathwish.
 
I think Disable alone is viable just because of all the "choice" items. Disable reduces CBers, CGers, and CSers to Struggle which, with DP formulas, usually hurts the user more than the foe. Who's going to object to that? I really wish Disable were 100% instead of 80%, but 80% at least makes it usable and generally safe to bet on. Tossing in Encore seems to be pushing it, and the combo would work exactly once until they caught on and just switched after the Encore, probably to something faster than you.

Actually, here's one for you: Disable+Protect. Use it on something fast obviously. Protect the choice attack, Disable, and then attack while they struggle. It really does reduce any choice user slower than you into a 20% chance of doing something other than Struggle. Neither move is useless otherwise, especially if you're a Pokemon who would enjoy disabling stuff anyway. I see a potentially fun gimmick moveset with Ninetales going down that path as you can not only take out any choice user slower than Ninetales' very respectable base 100, but you also can play serious mind games with waters as they can't hurt you if they Surf into your Protect. So, if we're talking gimmicks here, how does this sound:

Ninetales@leftovers
Max speed, other EVs
Energy Ball
Fire Move
Protect
Disable

IMO it could really screw with stuff. Alakazam is a faster Disable user with better inherent offense, but his defense is so poor that I'm worried about his ability to take CB Struggles. This is my best play at using Disable effectively, but it would be cool to see what directions others take with it.

Also, am I correct in my belief of how the mechanics work here?

Turn 1:

CBer attacks into protect.

Turn 2:

Pokemon uses Disable.
CBer does nothing because its attack is Disabled.

Turn 3:

CBer is forced to use Struggle(or switch).

Turn 4:

Even if still disabled, the CBer can pick another move.

I'm fairly certain about the first three turns(though not completely, obviously if I'm too wrong my whole plan falls apart), but I'm not so sure about turn 4. It would be so incredibly awesome if Disable forced Struggle until it wore off and then they were stuck with the same old move they were using in the first place(if that's the case, they are disabled no more after they are locked into using Struggle on that turn, right?). Disable was so useless in RBYGSCRSE that I never really played with the mechanics. It's just like how no one noticed that Mud Sport and Water Sport were broken in Netbattle for all that time...
 
Yes, I've been thinking about Disable a lot. I think it doesn't even need Encore for it to work.

Also, I believe that Hail + Blizzard being 100% accurate has been true since RS.

A 'gimmick' move nobody mentioned is Restore Imprison. I think it's a rather underrated move. A Blissey that can't Softboil for 5 turns can be 3HKOed instead of 2HKOed, which is big in itself. Same for Skarmory who can't Feather Rest.
 
I believe Restore Imprison may KO Leftovers too which is added bonus.

@Amazing Ampharos

They will keep Struggling on Turn 4 till Disable wears off. I know this as I've used Disable + Encore before on gimmick teams.

Disable has always forced consecutive Struggle ever since RBY except it wasn't till GSC we got a something which forced move repetition.

Actually now you mentioned it, I think Disable will be an actual major threat against Choice Banders. Struggle recoil in D/P is 1/4 of your HP. Which means they'd die in 2-4 struggles depending on whether you attack.

This is the only reason I'd even suggest Encore + Disable since 1/4 of your HP is significan especially when there are means to pull it off without ever being hit. (Substitute/Protect etc.)
 
X-Act said:
A 'gimmick' move nobody mentioned is Restore Imprison. I think it's a rather underrated move. A Blissey that can't Softboil for 5 turns can be 3HKOed instead of 2HKOed, which is big in itself. Same for Skarmory who can't Feather Rest.
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Forgot to mention this one. Very, very situational but it counters Skarmbliss quite well.
 
Tail Wind + U-Turn works well. Even Trick Room can be comboed with that, if you can switch in to a slower pokemon.

"Willis used Nasty Plot!"

"What you plottin about Willis?"
 
Amazing Ampharos said:
I think Disable alone is viable just because of all the "choice" items. Disable reduces CBers, CGers, and CSers to Struggle which, with DP formulas, usually hurts the user more than the foe. Who's going to object to that? I really wish Disable were 100% instead of 80%, but 80% at least makes it usable and generally safe to bet on. Tossing in Encore seems to be pushing it, and the combo would work exactly once until they caught on and just switched after the Encore, probably to something faster than you.

Actually, here's one for you: Disable+Protect. Use it on something fast obviously. Protect the choice attack, Disable, and then attack while they struggle. It really does reduce any choice user slower than you into a 20% chance of doing something other than Struggle. Neither move is useless otherwise, especially if you're a Pokemon who would enjoy disabling stuff anyway. I see a potentially fun gimmick moveset with Ninetales going down that path as you can not only take out any choice user slower than Ninetales' very respectable base 100, but you also can play serious mind games with waters as they can't hurt you if they Surf into your Protect. So, if we're talking gimmicks here, how does this sound:

Ninetales@leftovers/Grip Claw
Timid (+Spd, -Atk)
Max speed, HP
Fire Spin
Will-O-Wisp
Protect
Disable

IMO it could really screw with stuff. Alakazam is a faster Disable user with better inherent offense, but his defense is so poor that I'm worried about his ability to take CB Struggles. This is my best play at using Disable effectively, but it would be cool to see what directions others take with it.

Also, am I correct in my belief of how the mechanics work here?
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My recommendations in Bold. WoW screws up Banders badly, and switching into Fire Spin means they can't switch out. Sucks on fire types, especially those with Flash Fire, but they usually don't switch in unless they have EQ. Grip Claw enhances the duration of trapping moves, meaning if a slower CBer switches in to Ninetales, they're in a big bind, so to speak. Combine Fire Spin damage, Burn, and the fallout from Struggle, and these CB'ers aren't looking to be in great shape.
 
Ninetales doesn't have the defenses to pull off Fire Spin. Energy Ball / Flamethrower / Hypnosis / Nasty Plot! is the way to go.

"Willis used Nasty Plot!"

"What you talkin about Willis?"
 
Hi Forsety, I wasn't talking about Disable and Encore alone. I was talking about Disable+Encore.
 
IcyShock said:
Ninetales doesn't have the defenses to pull off Fire Spin. Energy Ball / Flamethrower / Hypnosis / Nasty Plot! is the way to go.

"Willis used Nasty Plot!"

"What you talkin about Willis?"
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The idea of AA's gimmick set was to Protect/Disable Choice Banders. Fire Spin helps because it traps them on the switch-in, Protect blocks their CB attack, and then Disable disables it. You can then Burn them to make Struggle do crap damage and pretty much disable their CBer permanently. Trapped + Burned + Forced to struggle basically means they've bit the bullet.

Fire spin is 1/16, Burn is 1/8th, Struggle is 1/4th HP. By the time they've been disabled and used Struggle, Fire Spin will have gone on for 3 turns and burn for one.

3/16 + 2/16 + 4/16 = 9/16ths, or just over 50%, not including whatever minor damage occured via Fire Spin's initial 15 BP use. If Fire Spin lasts a 4th turn and they have to Struggle again, 1/16 + 2/16 + 4/16 = 7/16. 7/16 + 9/16 = KO. Sure, it took you 4 turns, but you only sustained damage from Struggle, and your opponent really wasn't able to do anything else.

As to Ninetales defenses', they are 73/75/100, and burn helps with defense. I'm not nominating Ninetales for wall of the year, but it can take a CB struggle or two, especially if the target has been burned (Guts foes should just be Fire Spin'd again). The spread I had has 350 HP/187 Def/236 SD and 328 Speed.

And just so you know, other pokemon with this strategy:

[Mean Look/Bind]/WoW/Protect/Disable Dusknoir
Mean Look/Toxic/Protect/Disable Muk
Spider Web/Toxic/Protect/Disable Ariados
Block/Toxic/Protect/Disable Slowbro (or Slowking)
Wrap/Toxic/Protect/Disable Likilicky
Wrap/Toxic/Protect/Disable Arbok
Bind/Toxic/Protect/Disable Kecleon
Wrap/Toxic/Protect/Disable Chimecho

If only Whirlpool were an HM again...

The only trouble is, most of these guys are slow as hell.

It is a bummer that Froslass can't. It gets Disable from fairies and Block from Mineral, but it can't have both on the same set.
 
not new to d/p, but with the recycle tm this combo gets a lot more accessible

Pokemon @ Chesto Berry
- Rest
- Recycle
- filler
- filler
 
EDIT: Wow, Recycle works as many turns as you want after the item's been used. That's actually not bad at all. I'd actually try that set on a Snorlax...
 
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